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-   -   Opinions on best place for 2nd sub (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=795151)

bryce2320 08-20-2012 7:12 PM

Opinions on best place for 2nd sub
 
Ive been researching for hours and really cant find a sure answer on the best place to put a 2nd sub. I already have a 13w7 under the helm in a big ported box and its sounding great. I have the opportunity to buy another 13w7 and 1000/1 amp to match what I already have in it for a pretty good price. I would like to put a ported box under the observers seat. Theres not much room in my Tige 21i to put a very big box in there. I would kind of like to build a box that is ported out of the side. I'm pretty nervous at the idea of cutting into the walk way of my boat. Would a 2nd sub in the observer seat be worth it without porting it out thru the walkway? Any opinions or experience with the best set up for a 2nd sub would be great.

ralph 08-20-2012 11:23 PM

IMO, no. Unless you vent it into the cabin then the effect is reduced too much to warrant the exercise.

david_e_m 08-21-2012 6:05 AM

The first subwoofer in the most optimum position is always the most productive. The second subwoofer location is always a compromise in output although you will definitely add more output. The subwoofer in the observer's compartment will not have the identical phase response as the direct radiating subwoofer under the driver's helm. This negative effect is just as profound as phase issues caused by a large differential in distance. Bass musicality really suffers with multiple subwoofer locations that load differently. Then consider the impact it has on your charging system and how quickly voltage will sag.
If you can compound load multiple subwoofers collected in the same location, loaded and oriented identically, then the sum of multiple subs is greater than the parts and that's impressive! If separate port and starboard loading of subs are absolutely symmetrical in every sense and the radiation is totally unobstructed then the results will still be great. That can be a major project. Otherwise, it makes more of a boat shaker.

David
Earmark Marine

Diggertaker 08-21-2012 6:26 AM

I have my factory sub in the observers compartment & Im currently weighing all my options on how to get it out of there. Unless you have the door open you cut the output down by about 75%. With that said there probably isnt too many other options with the limited space you are given on a boat, if you are adding a 2nd sub.

acurtis_ttu 08-21-2012 6:49 AM

What kind of setup do you have that can handle 2 1000/1 amps? If not setup properly youre going to melt wire and fry electronics.

bryce2320 08-21-2012 6:59 AM

I have 0 gauge power and grounds going to distribution blocks than 4 gauge to my amps. Also 0 gauge wires to 2 interstate 29 batterys. 140 amp alternater and will b adding 1 or 2 more batteries and on board charger.

What would resale on a boat with a sub cut in under the observer seat with sub and port radiating off the other side of the walkway? I kno people do it but idk how well it would resale when I'm ready to upgrade? Sounds like it would b the best option for the most bass from a 2nd sub.

QuickVR4 08-21-2012 8:15 AM

I faced this issue when I added my second sub under the observer seat. I was not getting much output so I decided to vent it somehow and really lucked up on an idea. I, like you, hated to start hacking up my walkway so found a less intrusive solution and it really worked out great. While looking for ideas, for some reason a speaker grill popped into my mind. Found a 7" grill used in Jeeps that matched my carpet pretty well and made a huge difference in getting more output into the boat. I also trimmed it so the grill holds with the factory clips and does not rattle at all. No one has even noticed unless I point it out to them so should not affect resale too much. Not sure if something like this would work for you since my intstall is a Nauti 210.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0619121951.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...0619121952.jpg

polarbill 08-21-2012 8:43 AM

2 interstate srm-29's with 2 W7's, 2 1000/1 amps(aren't these A/B, AKA innefecient?) plus whatever other amps/interiors/towers sounds like really short play time. Even with your boat running I am not sure a 140 amp alternator is going to keep up with the system. Also, if you have some cheap DB electrical alternator or some rebuilt that has been jacked up to 140 amps it isn't going to handle that kind of abuse. A stock alternator trying to keep up is going to urn out as well. Do you have a single v pulley or a 6 rib serpantine style pulley. 140 amps is way too much on a single v belt.

Houstonshark 08-21-2012 9:19 AM

With the current draw, heat issues and phasing issues, I don't think it would be worth it. You are going to have a hard time getting bass out of that compartment and then when you do, like David said, you are going to have some phasing issues. If you somehow get past that and do in fact get more output that you are happy with, you will need some serious upgrades to the storage and charging system not to mention some sort of way to cool the amps and exhaust the heat generated from those beasts.

david_e_m 08-21-2012 11:05 AM

Just an FYI...While the JL Audio fullrange Slash amplifiers are Class AB, all the monoblock Slash series are Class D (including the old 500/1 and 1000/1, new 600/1 plus the upcoming 1200/1).

Bryce,
Try this test to help wrap your mind around the challenge at hand. Play your subwoofer by itself and without the fullrange speakers. Without the upper bass harmonics you will find that all bass sounds soggy, drunk and indiscriminant. Once the subwoofer amplitude overdrives the midbass contribution from the coaxials you will begin to experience the same boomy sound.
It's like a pickup truck with one 15-inch sub and four 4x6 coaxials. It will make plenty of bass but without a balanced ratio there isn't a hint of musicality.
It's hard enough getting two asymmetrical subs playing the same region in phase. Now you have the added challenge in getting the two subs with different phase rotations and the coaxials to integrate. It's makes tight transients and great bass attack nearly impossible to achieve although the shake, rattle and boom is off the charts. Now, if you just want the shake, rattle and boom without musicality then make those objectives clear. I'll change my thinking on a dime.

David
Earmark Marine

bryce2320 08-21-2012 12:03 PM

I think you guys just saved me a grand and a headache of stuffing a box under the observers seat. I think with my pair of rev 10s ( which hopefully will b here by Friday!) And the w7 there should b plenty of bass and still doin really good with the 3 pair xs-650s. When I see stuff like the hydrotuned Tigè I can't help but want to try it. Haha

david_e_m 08-21-2012 12:55 PM

Bryce,
If you look at the Wetsounds demo boat you will see that they did everything in their power to create port and starboard subwoofers that had identical orientation and boundary loading with plenty of open venting. They also had extra in-boat coaxials for balance.
Why don't you post some pics of your existing 13W7 enclosure and installation. There may be some things you can do to maximize what you have.

David
Earmark Marine

bryce2320 08-21-2012 3:02 PM

[IMG]http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMAG1065.jpg

This isn't a good pic but the only one in my phone. The box is built to jl spec. 3 ft3 tuned to 32 Hz. Don't get me wrong it bangs. I just want it to b the best it can be. A trim panel is coming soon but ive been at the lake the past couple weeks and haven't got to it yet. Thanks for everyone's help and interest on getting my system dialed in by the way!


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