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-   -   Opinions on riding finless behind the boat (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794814)

Houstonshark 07-31-2012 9:21 AM

Opinions on riding finless behind the boat
 
I've not been a very good husband as my wife only has 1 board (2012 Ronix Quarter til Midnight) that she hauls to the cable park and also to the river to ride behind the boat. For at least 2-3 months now, she has been riding without fins behind the boat because I keep forgetting to put them on prior to heading out.

The first time, she was really skeptical and leary of riding without them and since I didn't want to go back to the house and get them and take the time to put them on I told her it would be fine and that it should actually help improve her riding. I remember in 'The Book' that riding without fins will help you with 'true edging' by not relying on the fins but rather more on the edge of the board.

We have only been riding for about a year but my wife has really gotten hooked. We are behind the boat just about every weekend and my wife has been trying to go to the cable park once a week or every two weeks.

She has progressed quite a bit in her riding and I think she's doing great but I'm worried that maybe she's gotten too comfortable with how loose her board is. I'm planning on putting the fins back on her board this weekend but I'm afraid she may catch an edge at some point, blame it on the fins and want them taken off for good.

I may try the wider .8" slider fins first so that it's not as dramatic. Any thoughts, comments? Do any of you or any pros ride behind the boat without fins?

Here's a really quick edit of her last run when we were out a couple weeks ago. The video sucks cause my 4yr old insisted that he hold the camera to record mommy!

http://vimeo.com/m/46644048

wakebordr11 07-31-2012 9:35 AM

And what do you perceive as her weaknesses while riding? Too comfortable on a loose board, no such thing. If she likes it, she looks great. Why throw the fins off, cause her to potentially face plant potentially causing injury or frustration. I have a friend that rides a slingshot finless, he likes it super loose, sometimes he lands blind the board slides and he regains control. She might want fins when she goes to work on toeside more but I don't get your motivation for driving her towards fins?

cwb4me 07-31-2012 9:45 AM

She looks plenty comfortable without the fins.If she is okay without them i wouldn't worry about it. If you change something and she takes a digger,who's in the dog house now?

fly135 07-31-2012 10:10 AM

Once I started riding the cable I quit using fins behind the boat. What strikes me about your post is that you act as if your wife can't manage her own board. Putting her fins on/off should be her decision and her job. And I say that based on the level of her riding in the video. She's way past that kind of hand holding.

petrie141 07-31-2012 10:14 AM

Been there with my wife.... What we ended up doing was putting the fins on the back of the board and left them off the front. That way she could jump and carve all around in her regular stance, then once she ended up switch, she could revert back around with minimal effort. It was a win-win for us.

Houstonshark 07-31-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebordr11 (Post 1772392)
And what do you perceive as her weaknesses while riding? Too comfortable on a loose board, no such thing. If she likes it, she looks great. Why throw the fins off, cause her to potentially face plant potentially causing injury or frustration. I have a friend that rides a slingshot finless, he likes it super loose, sometimes he lands blind the board slides and he regains control. She might want fins when she goes to work on toeside more but I don't get your motivation for driving her towards fins?

I'm not trying to push her really, she brings it up every time she goes to put the board on the first time since we keep forgetting. She has more ride time with fins than without but she has gotten really comfortable not having them. She wants to put them back on but unless I bring it up and do it for her, it won't get done. I guess my thought process is, if she is comfortable riding without them and can edge well without them, she will be able to edge a little better and harder with the fins.

I don't think her weaknesses have anything to do with not having fins. Her biggest issue is not standing tall at the top of the wake and sometimes flattening out or coming off of her edge as she hits the wake. She pulls her knees up so much because she says it helps her to get her board in a better position for landing but she often pulls them up too soon which causes her to absorb the pop.

She's getting much better each trip out and has started working on some toe side jumps, switched jumps and toe side 180's. Her switched riding looks almost identical to her regular riding with the exception of jumping.

FYI, this was at 23mph, 65', 25% ballast and TAPS at 1 (lowest position, not causing the wake to be any bigger).

I hear you Robert! If she doesn't ride well or catches an edge because of something I did, I'll be in the doghouse for awhile!

Houstonshark 07-31-2012 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fly135 (Post 1772404)
Once I started riding the cable I quit using fins behind the boat. What strikes me about your post is that you act as if your wife can't manage her own board. Putting her fins on/off should be her decision and her job. And I say that based on the level of her riding in the video. She's way past that kind of hand holding.

She can but she has a lot on her plate in terms of getting ready to go out on the boat since we have 2 small boys. She packs the food, coolers, gets the boys ready, loads all their stuff in the boat, etc and I typically load all the gear, gas up the boat and get it ready to launch.

She pulls her weight for sure but typically just doesn't think about it since she is busy taking care of the kids and loading. Even if she started doing it, I would probably step in and finish it. Maybe I'll just ask her to get her fins out if she wants them on and I'll put them on for her. That way she's the one that initiates it.

I'm waiting to see the 2013 boards to get her another board just for behind the boat so if it goes that long, I just won't worry about removing the fins on it unless she really doesn't want them on.

07-31-2012 10:34 AM

How about leave the fins in the boat then? In case she wants them, slap them on really quick.

Nordicron 07-31-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LR3w8kbrdr (Post 1772421)
How about leave the fins in the boat then? In case she wants them, slap them on really quick.

Thats a good idea about leaving them in the boat and let her make up her mind.

Have to ask why go so fast for a beginner? 23mph seems about 2-3mph to fast to me? When I watched the video it did seem alittle fast but I thought that was just the video editing or something. Getting height,distance on a wakeboard for a beginner is more about proper cut/lineloading than speed.

Readyaimfire 07-31-2012 3:09 PM

Jut put the fins back on. The fins that come on that board are pretty small I believe. It's not like we r talking about 2.5" Atac's or something. U can see the board slipping off the top of the wake. She's losing a bit of her pop because the wake is knocking her off edge and without the fins the tail is sliding forward. Riding finless is ok, but I'm not sure she's at that level yet. Toeside will be much easier with he fins on. Just my .02 cents

wakebordr11 07-31-2012 7:25 PM

I'd advise her to not do any of the quick hs to ts edge change funny business near docks with fins on like she did finless, that looked like a ballsy move as it was, I wouldn't drive her so close to shore if I could avoid it. Some ppl don't have the depth perception... Just looked close is all... Slow her down too... 65 and 21... Shoot I don't like riding faster than 23.5...

07-31-2012 7:36 PM

Damn that water is dirty

tahoeguy7 08-01-2012 7:32 AM

Looks like she is doing very well without the fins. However, I would go ahead and put them back on because it will help with her edge through wake jumps. It will be harder to do surface 180's, but if you know your edges well enough, you can do surface 180's with or without fins.

Kane 08-01-2012 9:38 AM

I say leave them off.
She is doing fine with out them.
Tommy is right, she is loosing pop because the tail is sliding forwards but I think this has more to do your wife cutting in back foot heavy.
For one year of riding she is doing great!
Keep having fun.

petrie141 08-01-2012 9:49 AM

Go finless, this guy looks like he's having a blast!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/COThs7Ab2Do" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Houstonshark 08-01-2012 11:24 AM

I was looking for that video the other day and couldn't find it. Thanks Ryan!

I'll try and reply to a few comments and suggestions at once here.

Keep the fins in the boat - I actually have always kept a set of Ronix .8" Slider and 1" Ramp fins in the boat along with a couple screws, lace locks, etc. My wife mentioned the fins last time out. I remembered that I had some in the glove box and went to get them but realized that I didn't have enough screws to put them all on. I'll make sure and put the screws on the boat this next time out.

Speed - 23mph does sound a little fast but we have worked up from around 20.6 to the current speed. That seems to be a really good speed for the boat and since we slowly worked our way up to it, it feels normal. I always ask her after a run (or fall) how she feels about the speed, wake, rope length, etc and she answers truthfully.

Last time out I slowed the boat to 22 and she noticed enough to comment that it feels slower than normal and asked me to speed up a bit. I've been surfing more lately and easing back into wakeboarding after a stomach muscle pull and this last time out 23mph felt a little too fast. I think I'm going to bump the preset back to 22ish and just leave it there for awhile (if not slower the first couple times she rides with fins again).

Riding close to the dock - Our river is not real wide, especially at that part where she switched from goofy to regular. I'm pretty sure I was in the middle of the river but it did seem pretty close in the video. I'll point it out to her for sure.

Dirty water - We had several weeks prior to this outing where we had rain nearly everyday so the water will tend to be a little dirtier, especially up river where we ride most. It always looks worse in videos. I'll take it being though as since it is brackish water that means (if the dirt is due to rain) that the water is pretty fresh with little to no salt. It's cleaner down river but the further you go towards the mouth, the higher the salt content.

JoLo_Si 08-01-2012 12:23 PM

Ryan's loving Zucky. I'm glad I took the time to search this one out for his other thread.

JoLo_Si 08-01-2012 1:50 PM

Less Fin = More Fun

Once you've found your edge.

petrie141 08-01-2012 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoLo_Si (Post 1772777)
Ryan's loving Zucky. I'm glad I took the time to search this one out for his other thread.

I just can't help it! I remember the first time I ever did a surface 360. I thought it was the scariest/most fun thing ever! I'll keep it on the other thread form now on :D

simplej 08-01-2012 2:38 PM

We'll.... It depends on the board and rider but riding find on the wake(especially a quad fin) will increase drive up the wake

Readyaimfire 08-01-2012 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplej (Post 1772821)
We'll.... It depends on the board and rider but riding find on the wake(especially a quad fin) will increase drive up the wake

^^^ this^^^ drive is very important.

Finless is all fine and well for spinning surface tricks and hitting kickers/rails, but i see some people who ride up the wake slipping and sliding as if they are riding a lunch tray. Without being able to hold your carve all the way through the top of the wake, things like backrolls are soooo much harder. I think it would be benificial for the time being to put them back on. She will progress much faster and have more fun landing new tricks.

Houstonshark 08-17-2012 4:59 PM

I thought I would give a quick update with video. We have been out once behind the boat in the last 2 weeks but this time when my wife asked about the fins on her board, I had them with me. I put the .8" Slider fins on and let's just say that the first run didn't go so well (in her mind, but to me she didn't really look all that different) and it was all my fault because I let her ride for so long without them!

Anyway, it didn't take long and she seemed to not even notice that they were on but I could really tell that she seemed more stable. She even attempted a couple grabs and overall had a good day of riding! I did slow the boat down a little to 22mph but had to tell her that it was still at 23mph because she didn't want to change it.

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/47752900" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/47752900">Sandra 8.4.12</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user10411736">TJ Morgan</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Houstonshark 08-17-2012 5:00 PM

OK, that didn't work. Here it is:

https://vimeo.com/47752900

Michigantim22 08-17-2012 5:34 PM

I see trouble coming when your boys are big enough to board: mom, dad and 2 kids who all want time behind the boat. Lots and lots of gas to be sure! I'm going through it big time just pulling my 2 boys!

Houstonshark 08-17-2012 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michigantim22 (Post 1776712)
I see trouble coming when your boys are big enough to board: mom, dad and 2 kids who all want time behind the boat. Lots and lots of gas to be sure! I'm going through it big time just pulling my 2 boys!

Ha. It's a problem already! My 4yr old is wakeboarding already and my 3yr old told me yesterday, 'Daddy, I don't want to surf with you anymore. I want to wakeboard. No more surfing!'

I enjoy diving and just hanging out as long as I get at least 1 good pull.

Houstonshark 08-18-2012 12:39 PM

After looking at both videos again (which were her last 2 times out behind the boat) she's definitely getting more pop and looking more stable on her landings. I'm not sure how much the fins had to do with it vs her just improving and popping more. She's still absorbing a lot of the pop with her knees and keeps starting her cut with slack in the rope which seems to jerk her about half way through. She's controlling the jerk but it's not helping her to maintain a progressive edge.

She's itching to try a backroll but I think she needs to work on standing taller at the wake and not absorbing it with her knees. Thoughts?

wakedaveup 08-18-2012 12:43 PM

I know this is off topic, but when I get married, I pray my wife wants to go to the cable once a week. You WW peeps seem to find the good ones help a brotha out... haha kidding.. kinda

08-18-2012 1:02 PM

^^^im with this guy lol

She must be comfortable towing me behind the boat and if she wakeboards too thats an even bigger plus! Ive been given the opportunity to start fresh again so Im going to make sure I do it right this time:)

Back on topic though...

I think its great she getting more comfortable and the more times she goes out with fins the less she'll even notice them on there. And a backroll? Thats awesome!!

My recommendation is to when she wants to try them...slow the boat down and let her get a feeling of the rotation plus if she wipes out it wont hurt so bad or discourage her. When I was learning mine with Shaun Murray behind his boat he slowed it down to 17mph which threw a monster wake and I landed it on my 3rd try.

johnny_defacto 08-18-2012 2:12 PM

TJ, I knew that was a tige wake as soon as I saw the first video, then you said "taps at 1" and it confirmed it. I had a 98 pre2200 and that wake looks almost identical. how much ballast is %25 on your boat, oh and what boat is it.

As for the slack in the rope with her cut, she cuts out fine but immediately cuts back in which causes the slack. have her cut out the same, flatten out and pause for a second until the boat starts pulling her back towards the wake, then she can start her cut. Otherwise, she rides great for just one year.

Houstonshark 08-18-2012 4:20 PM

Thanks for the tips LR3! After her first run, I don't think she really even noticed the fins but I could sure tell. She was a gymnast as a kid, cheered in HS and college and has been teaching cheerleading and dance at an all star gym for the last 12+ years. She's really itching to start doing some inverts. Let's just hope both of her sergically repaired ACL's hold up!

Johnny, it's a 2012 Tige RZR (20' pickle fork). We have the stock Surf Ballast which is 1600lbs (400 bow, 1200 stern). I've added a bunch of Pop Bags so we have right at 1000lbs in the bow. It needs to be as close to evenly weighted as possible in order to keep the wake from being too lippy or peaky. The last video was with about 1600lbs in the rear (including people weight and extra batteries) and 1000lbs in the bow. Speed was 22MPH, TAPS 2 and 65' rope.

For a small boat, the wake can get huge. We've tested several props now, including a 1235 that I just pulled off and sold. We are having a tough time getting the boat to plane with much more than 1600lbs in the rear. Full ballast, 2 adults and my 2 boys with all the extra battery, Pop Bags and stereo weight would be about 3400lbs but I haven't been able to see the wake at that weight yet.

We are testing a new ACME 13.5" 5 blade when it becomes available in the next week or so. Hopefully I can get some pics or video of the wake with full weight. I know we don't really need it based on our skill level but I'd much rather learn on a big wake and I have several friends who are more advanced riders that will appreciate it as well.


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