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-   -   2012 Axis A22 vs. MB Tomcat 21 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794796)

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 2:33 PM

2012 Axis A22 vs. MB Tomcat 21
 
Seriously considering the purchase of a 2012 version either and Axis A22 or an MB Tomcat... Both boats are moderately optioned and have similar price points, with the Axis being the cheapest. Whatever model I go with will be mostly for wake boarding with the occasional surf on crappy condition days. Im not looking for a bells and whistles boat, I want a rock solid dependable boat that throws a great wake and also holds its value well for resale. I ride mostly on a brackish river that on the busy days can get choppy, so id like a boat that can handle well and a decent freeboard is always a plus. I know in my previous threads I talked about getting a SAN 210 but after looking around at the market a low hour, super clean and well taken care of version is close if not over 40K. So for an extra 10k and the peace of mind on a boat that will start and run every weekend is what I need

I know there is some die hard MB guys on here, but lets try and make this legitimate reasons... Not some other MB ROCKS promo thread! I want to know about why you think your boat rocks... Warranty resolutions, longevity, dealer support, etc.... and of course wake!

polarbill 07-30-2012 3:09 PM

Either would be awesome. Both are probably pretty similar in inside space. Both throw great wakeboard wakes(Axis with plug and play, MB with an added 300-500 in the bow). The MB probably has a better stock surf wave although it is easier to add bigger rear bags to the Axis since it already has the plug and play. The MB you will either have to plumb in something or use a throw over the side pump. The MB will be more "finished" or plush. The MB will have more standard features.

I think you need to go sit in and demo both and decide for yourself. I would take either.

Tsg137 07-30-2012 3:18 PM

I would go demo and then follow your gut.

shawndoggy 07-30-2012 3:31 PM

Your profile says you are in New Jersey. MB has a lot of support on the west coast, but I'm not so sure about NJ? Axis on the other hand has the benefit of an existing (malibu) dealer network.

We chose MB because we switch disciplines a lot (wakeboard, surf goofy, surf reg, wakeboard) and the gravity fed ballast made a lot of sense. For you it doesn't sound like that would be a real top priority.

I'm guessing that the MB is going to have a better rough water ride (deep v hull vs. flatter on the axis), but that comes at the expense of low speed wake (axis will clean up under 20, MB won't). So if beginners or kids are ever in the picture, axis might be better.

I'm sure this is a jinx, but with 120 hours on our 23' MB, we haven't ever taken a drop over the bow. The boat is great in rough water. I'd assume that the 21's are the same.

Resale? Again given malibu's nationwide market penetration, I'm betting you'd do a little better on the axis (if you can really get it in the low 50s to begin with).

If you are going to spend $50K though... I'd also give something like a 2008+ Malibu LSV or 2009+ VLX a long look. You might also look for a 2009+ vride. You'd see very little depreciation on those.

sandm01 07-30-2012 4:03 PM

I was ready to pull the plug on an mb21 and went to the skiers/bu dealer. they quoted me 56otd on a fairly well equipped axis a22.
both boats felt real solid, but I liked the interior of the mb a little better and it felt a tad bigger. dealer at axis was better and with all the mb's on our lake around here from a redline rental dealership, I think the axis would have been a better resale opportunity should I have needed it locally. if all you do is board primarily I would bet(again, only water tested the mb) that the axis will have a better wakeboard wake and as mentioned, plug/play can be built in and is an additional expense with the mb..

second the vlx if you are a boarder. a guy here just picked up a '10 lsv for 50k even that looked to be pretty well loaded with under 100hrs..

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 4:42 PM

Closest MB dealer is 200miles away from me. Closest Axis/Malibu dealer is 45min in one direction and 1.5hrs in the other. MB is prewired for ballasts and the Axis has Plug N Play and has a 3 ballast system. Sound system is much better in the MB and the Axis is only the level 1 stereo system. Axis has auto set wedge with inboard gauge MB has the Electronic Cavitation plate. The MB has some flash options,swivel board racks, underwater LEDs, 18" rims on the trailer, stainless rub rails, Wesounds etc.. All of which I could add for much cheaper to the Axis as well. However with the MB being $2500 more not sure if its worth it

ralph 07-30-2012 4:49 PM

A lot of good info here:
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...ht=axis+tomcat

shawndoggy 07-30-2012 4:51 PM

all new boats will need warranty work. 200 miles away = 12 hour round trip unless your deal does while you wait warranty service (ha ha ha ha haaaaa!) because it's six hours round trip to drop it off and six hours to pick it up. Plus the gas money for towing/driving. Each warranty service claim will cost you two saturdays and $150+ in fuel. Which means in reality there will probably be a bunch of little things that never get warranty attention because you'll just live with it (I know I've done a lot of work myself that I'd tow to the dealer for if it weren't for the fact that the dealer is 120 miles away over a 7000' pass).

On that basis alone you should get the dealer to either give you a big big discount, or go to the axis guys.

I know that axis nickel and dimes on little stuff like board racks, bimini, cleats, etc., so make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 4:55 PM

Axis has a bimini, pop up cleats, tatmi carpet... Like I said other than the stereo and underwater lights they are dead even. MB has 350hp Indmar, Axis is 335hp Monsoon with transom flush kit.

shawndoggy 07-30-2012 5:12 PM

The underwater lights are a "meh?" to me... they seem cool, but I'm on the water after sunset once a year, so not worth any extra $$$.

One other consideration... MB uses stargazer perfect pass (GPS), and I think Malibu uses an indmar version of speed control (which is paddlewheel based). 9 times out of 10 I'd say that the perfect pass is better, but since you are on a river, that's also something to think about.

Is it the salt series axis with the galvanized trailer? Does the MB have a salt-ready trailer? How much is the MB dealer going to charge you to install the flushpro and transom through hull (they should throw it in IMHO)?

Dual batteries? Depth finder? cover? tower mirror? (MB has all / all are options on axis)

The Axis has better integrated dash electronics, if memory serves. MB uses standard faria / perfect pass gauges. The only custom gauge on the MB dash is the tach/ballast/trim gauge.

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 5:49 PM

I think underwater lights are cool, but my river isn't crystal clear water and the 2 lakes I ride on are so/so clarity wise. Normally when Im on the water after sunset it is just coming in from a dusk session after work. Im never just hanging out on the boat at night so lights aren't really needed. Cool to have but definitely not a necessity.

Not sure about the speed controls. Stargazer would be my approved choice but after not having any speed control anything is great.

Neither are a salt series. Axis trailer is just the stock boat mate trailer, no frills. The dealer has a few trailers in stock and wouldn't haven't a problem swapping out to a basic galvanized trailer. However, I was my trailer with soap, water and salt-away after every use. MB trailer is either black MB trailer or a matching color trailer Im not sure which. Flushpro and through hull I didn't get a quote on but Im sure it will be the standard 1200-1500 add on.

dual batteires on Axis, Drop in Cooler, Chillax front seating, pop up cleats, Skybox rear seating, Swivel drivers seat, Storage lights, Underseat LEDs, Custom matching cover, Tatami Mat, Matching Bimini, Depth Finder, Mirror, Wedge with Guage, Plug N Play ballast Hi Flow, Hi Flow 3 Tank Wakebox

MB has underwater LEDs, quick plane plate, plug n play ballast, upgraded trailer, Wet Sounds Speakers, Syn 4 amp, 10" sub and the other little extras that come standard.

What speakers come in the Axis standard package?

downfortheride 07-30-2012 5:57 PM

1. Demo
2. Dealer
3. Options
4. Price
I had a chance to ride both boats stock weight and found I like MB. I love the fact that I have all the storage full to use and no bags in the way except the nose where we throw a 450. Demo and see what's going to work best! Bring some extra weight if the Axis don't have the plug n play.

Shawndog ~ I Installed my own flush kit! $80 and about 1hr it's perfect... So easy to use and I think a must on any boat! That and I hate a fake a lake and getting soaked if I need to start the boat off the water.

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 6:02 PM

Closest MB dealer to demo is 4.5hours away, to demo the one Im interested in is about 9hrs away. Closest dealer to demo an Axis is 4min away, boat Im looking at is 1.5hrs away...

shawndoggy 07-30-2012 6:07 PM

$1200-1500 for a flush pro? The kit only costs $120 from bakes (http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1649)

Shoot, buy me a plane ticket to NJ and I'll do it for free. Srsly, it's about an hour job with a drill (hole in hull), sandpaper (chamfer holes), hacksaw (cut raw water hose), and screwdriver (tighten hose clamps). If I can do it....

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/fc1835c5.jpg

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/1a3ed492.jpg

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/z...y/260f358a.jpg

Mahoney86 07-30-2012 6:23 PM

lol sorry shawn, hit the zeros on there by accident

07-30-2012 6:43 PM

To me, axis looks like a core wakeboarder boat, geared towards the younger crowd. Mb looks like the parents boat with flashy chrome. I know nothing about MB but the axis can easily be plumbed to 4000 lbs ballast all hidden.

I would love to get an A22, all charcoal grey with black accents with an aircraft carrier color scheme. I would definitely get the No Stereo option and add it yourself. You can get a huge system all wetsounds with the RIGHT amps for half the price of the factory. add the PNP system with 750 pound rear bags along with the 5-blade prop and you'll have a mackin wake. Just don't expect to have the flashiest and nicest boat on the water.

It may just be me, but I like how axis interior is very plain with LITTLE stitching. All the boats i have own and been in have had all the vinyl tear at the stitching seams. IF you use it in salt, that will only happen faster. It probably wouldn't hurt to have custom seat towels made that cover up the seats on either boat you pick.

jeepdude 07-30-2012 7:45 PM

i test drove both boats earlier this year.
personally, from a riding perspective, i think the axis is a better boat, but from a quality of build, fit and finish, and standard feature perspective, i think the MB is a better boat.
MB has pure vert as well, which is very nice.

what river are you riding?

you going take it to Hoptacong as well?

matt75 07-30-2012 8:18 PM

Any possibility you would wait for a 2013 Axis?
http://axisboatsinternational.com/ax...el_Change.html

I own a 2011 Axis and love it. The vinyl thickness and bolster seat (I ride on it due to debris from river) is too low. No frills and I like it that way. I don't need to be more anal than I am with passengers and food, etc. I like the MB boats, but the closest dealer from me is 200+ miles away, so that was out of the question. I've seen several and they're solid. Demo both

Kingsriver 07-30-2012 8:47 PM

Rob,
I looked at both boats before I bought my Sanger 237 and as I was driving to the the Axis dealer I w hoping I was going to like the boat (price point) because I also toured the MB factory the same day. The fit and finish on the Axis was very poor. I did not care for the front Window that was open on the sides. The vinyl and carpet was very cheap in the Axis and for 50k I could not get excited about the boat. MB on the other hand makes all the seats in house and their fit and finish is great fort the price point. The MBs that I looked at on the west coast seem to come with a lot more options for the money. Good luck and enjoy your search as I think your are asking all the right questions.

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 4:57 AM

Nick, I live 5min from the Navesink River so I mostly drop in there, but I ride Lake Hopatcong and Delerware River as well.

If there was a great deal on a 2013 Axis certainly, however dealers are moving out the 2012 all over the place right now.

Dont get me wrong, id love a plush boat but at my young age, a boat is a boat. I dont need suede interior and all that jazz. I mean of course if the price is right. My biggest conern is just overal reliablity. I work 60-70hrs a week, loads of stress and aggravation. Friday night, all day sat/sun is time spent on the boat so I need it to be enjoyable. I dont want to have to worry about breakdowns or dead batteries etc... I want to be able to drop in the water and go board, then anchor up in the cove, chill out in the sun have some drinks and chill out until dusk and do another boariding session. Load up, go home wash the boat and dry it off, fire up the grill BBQ hit the bed and do it all again the next day....

Everyday a boat spends in the shop or in my driveway getting reapirs, is a day wasted and a day that I dont get to forget about all the hassles of work

jeepdude 07-31-2012 5:19 AM

Random thing you might want to take note of that i know Shawndoggy did as well.

although i liked the MB better the one thing that drove me crazy compared to the big 4 was that they are using fuses instead of breakers on the boat.

I still have a hard time with boats in 2012 not having breakers when my old 89 Malibu had them.

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 5:41 AM

With your emphasis on warranty support it seems like a no brainer to me. Go with the boat with the closer dealer.

And as I said in the other thread, strongly consider a boat that's a year or two old, that's had the warranty kinks worked out, with some warranty left. A warranty is cold comfort if something wigs out at the end of June and you lose a month to the boat being at the dealer.

Now the "dead batteries" issue is really about YOU and how well YOU maintain them. If you don't maintain them they will die prematurely, new boat or not.

jeff_mn 07-31-2012 6:09 AM

2009-2010 LSV for $50k, imo.

chattwake 07-31-2012 6:18 AM

I have owned a bunch of wakeboats, including mastercrafts, nautiques, malibus. I switched to Axis in 2011 because I couldn't justify spending what I had been spending when I could get a better wake (for me) out of a boat that cost a tremendous amount less. I've owned a 2011 A22, and I currently have a 2012 A22. It's no secret that I get a good deal on my boats, but that being said, if I wanted a mc, cc or bu, I could get a good deal through my local dealers on those brands as well.

In regard to the overall quality of the A22, I have had no problems with the vinyl or interior components of my boats, other than a few nicks here and there that you are going to get with any boat that you actually use. People talk about how Axis' vinyl is purportely sub par, however, I had seats tear and rip in my mc, cc and vlx. Just because the pre '13 Axis vinly is not textured doesn't mean it's bad. Sure, some companies use really heavy weight vinyl, which is thicker than what is used in the Axis boats, but I feel that it's not exactly necessary. The Axis vinly feels very similar to what I had in my '08, '09 and '10 super air nautique 230's. The whole Axis vinyl thing is just an easy thing for people to key on when differentiating between the Axis line and, say, mb. Is the mb vinyl nicer than the Axis vinyl? Sure. Is the Axis vinyl not adequate or nice? Nope. I, personally, find that the non-textured vinyl is much easier to maintain and keep cleen. The vlx I owned had textured vinyl in places, and you had to hit that stuff with a bristle brush to get all of the dirt out of the little crevices in the vinyl. At the end of the day, to me, the vinyl issue boils down to preference and price. Thicker vinyl is more expensive. It's probably more durable. To me, it's not a necessity, but a comfort choice.

Coming from owning several 230's, I was surprised to find that the overall fit and finish of the Axis was good. Sure, cheaper parts are used here and there. The glove box is injection molded plastic, and not fiberglass and gel coat. There are no billet aluminum trim pieces in ever nook and cranny. You have to cut costs somewhere.

The hull construction is equivalent to that of a Malibu. They are made on the same line by the same people. The tower is the most rock solid tower I have ever had in any boat. I have Wetsounds Rev410's, a z5, and usually a ton of decks on my tower, and it never shakes - not one bit - not in rough water - not hitting double ups - nada.

I had the Raptor 400 in my last boat and the LS3 in my current A22. Both motors have been rock solid. I have friends who own A22's with the 335, and so long as you prop it right, and are not at crazy altitude, that motor is sufficient unless you plan on running a rediculious amount of weight.

Like you, I work crazy hours, and I don't have time for a boat that is not reliable. I want to maximize the usefullness of what I own with the little amount free time that I have. I want ease of use. I have two little girls, and I don't have time to mess with, nor do I want to have to, pull sacks out, throw a pump over the side, plug it in, fill extra sacs up one at a time, blah blah blah. With the Axis + plug n play, pumbing in extra ballast takes like 30 minutes. When it's time to ride, I simply flip four rocker switches and everything fills without me having to move a bunch of crap around, pull out pumps, unroll sacs, etc. No, it's not nearly as quick as the pure vert system on the mb. However, with the traditional pump system in the Axis, you can add weight to the nose of the boat (which you can't do with an mb unless you throw a sac up there and use an external pump), while pulling a rider, you can fine tune the weight by pumping out a little water on one side, out of the rear, out of the nose, or even pump in some water while idling.

As to the speed control in the pre '13 Axis boats, it is a paddle wheel system. Personally, I love this system. I had it on my '02 XStar and on my '07 VLX. It was always accurate - regardless of whether I was on the river or the lake. All of my nautiques had zero off, which I hated. I'm sure that there are people who's zero off systems worked flawlessly, but on all 3 of my SANTE 230's, I had issues with the speed control loosing satellite connection in spots (like when towing a rider under a bridge or in certain remote areas. I had problems towing a rider on the river, because the gps control didn't adjust for current. If you ride on the river alot, you better demo whatever you are going to buy on a river with current and see how the speed control behaves when you pull down river, make a u-turn, and then immediatly begin pulling up river.

While I have not had any problems with any of the electrical components in my A22s, I love the fact that Axis uses basic rocker switches and analog gauges. If you do have a problem its not like you or your dealer is going to have to obtain some backordered uber expensive part, and tear the boat into a million pieces, just to replace a switch or gauge. The ease of repair was one of the other main reasons that I went with an A22. When you go look at one, crawl under the dash, crawl into the ob compartment, look in the engine compartment. Factor in how easy it will be to fix things, to winterize the motor, to add plug-n-play bags, etc.

As has been said before, the dealer network for Axis is HUGE. There are tons and tons of dealers out there who can get you parts or fix your boat under warranty. Axis has a strong presence on the east coast, and a lot of dealers are familiar with working on those boats. This leads me to my next point: resale. I had no problem whatsoever selling my '11 A22 (thanks only inboards). I know of several people in my area who sold their '09 and '10 A22's this past season and upgraded to '12's. They were very happy with the money they got. My dealer can't keep A22's' in stock. My '12 is likely already presold. The demand for the A22 is really high right now, and I think, as prices increase across the board (Axis included), the demand for used A22's will remain high.

When deciding what boat to buy, demo the boats you are interested in with the weight setup you plan to run all the time. For most riders who can throw basic tricks, the stock wake behind most boats out there is too small. Comparing stock wakes is somewhat inconsequential if you plan to add weight. My suggestion is get your local Axis dealer to let you demo a boat with the plug n play bags installed. That will give you an idea as to what you can get out of an A22 hull. IMO, it's be best wake I've ever ridden. Now, that's largely personal preference, and people are going to have different opinions. I'm not saying it's the best wake on the planet, it's just the best wake I've hit for my riding style. They took a lot of hook out of the A22 hull, which results in a wake that is large and rampy, with a huge and very very firm lip. Lots of space to land to save your knees and lots of consistent pop. The A22 wake is not finiky. When your friend grabs a beer out of the cooler on the other side of the boat while you're taking a set, the wake will not instantly roll and wash out (like it does on many many other boats).

I have not ridden behind a Tomcat, so I can't compare the wakes. I hear that boat produces a very nice wake. I'm sure some members on here can help by throwing up some pictures of videos. In regard to the shape, size and consistency of the A22 wake, the video produced by SMG a while back provides a ton of insight. I'll post it up.

The surf wave behind the A22 is nice as well when you have the pnp sacs in the boat. I run 1k in the surf side rear, wedge down, and fill the nose sac. At 10.5mph, the wave is money. I have not surfed behind a tomcat, but I have seen pictures of the surf wave, and it looks really really nice as well.

If you have any further specific questions, feel free to pm me. You can't go wrong with either the mb or the A22. Both are great boats. Demo boat and make a list of pros and cons and see which one feels right for you in your particular situation.

Oh, and btw, I always order my boats with the smallest stereo pack I can get and just build a wetsounds system. IMO, that's the best way to go. Regardless of what you buy, if you end up deciding to build a system, I'll be more than happy to offer some suggestions on what to buy and where.

Best of luck!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/gszNwDXd3UE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

WaterBullDawg 07-31-2012 7:00 AM

This is the way a thread should be. Awesome info fellas.

Not much to add other than emphasizing having a dealer so close is a HUGE plus. I actually really like MB but like you I would have to drive hours one way just to get to them. For that reason alone they are not on my short list of boats to purchase next Spring.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 7:08 AM

THanks for the large write up Chatt

I agree this is a good pro/con thread with real info no bs rants... thanks everyone

wakecumberland 07-31-2012 7:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_mn (Post 1772312)
2009-2010 LSV for $50k, imo.

Where does one find this boat at that price?

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 7:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakecumberland (Post 1772332)
Where does one find this boat at that price?

here's an 09... a little more, but it comes with the 8.1.... http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...setter-56-000/

08 (same hull) for $52 http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/...-lsv-for-sale/

08 for $58 in OP's neck of the woods: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_720wt_1167

There was an 08 or 09 (can't remember) with 400 hours or so on the malibucrew a couple of months ago for $48k if memory serves.

chattwake 07-31-2012 7:26 AM

Those older lsv's are great boats, however, there will be no warranty, and they are already 4-5 years old. They will probably hold their values pretty well, but you won't get as good of an interest rate on an older boat, and you will have to deal with wear and tear that you won't have with a much newer or new boat.

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 7:28 AM

Dont get me wrong, I love Bu's but I cant justify spending that kind of $$ on a used boat for wakeboarding, not at my age and time in my life. If I was older and had kids, clients, family etc on the boat differnet story. I mean Im having a hard time even thinking that Im going to spend 50k on a boat as it is!

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 7:41 AM

Rob how does this 2012 compare with what you are looking at: https://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=33693

https://onlyinboards.com/App_Themes/...to/173895.jpeg

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 8:03 AM

I was actually just talking with him. I have a trade in and what not, so it would all have to depend on what my dealer could buy it from him for and what the resale to me would be. Once it was all said and done, the new boat still might be a cheaper option and its the Black/Vapor blue color

wakereviews 07-31-2012 8:13 AM

on most boats, the engine warranty work is actually paid for by PCM or Indmar, etc. So you could take the boat to any PCM dealer (if the MB you are looking at has that motor) and have warranty work done. Also, if you are concerned about other warranty issues, you might want to call MB and see if they have a dealer close by that will do warranty stuff for you. My understanding is that MB pays out to the dealers for warranty work and it can be done by just about any dealer, but that might not be correct. Might be worth a call to MB if you are considering this boat but the only hiccup is dealer support.

bushtree 07-31-2012 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1772317)
I have not ridden behind a Tomcat, so I can't compare the wakes. I hear that boat produces a very nice wake. I'm sure some members on here can help by throwing up some pictures of videos. In regard to the shape, size and consistency of the A22 wake, the video produced by SMG a while back provides a ton of insight. I'll post it up.

The surf wave behind the A22 is nice as well when you have the pnp sacs in the boat. I run 1k in the surf side rear, wedge down, and fill the nose sac. At 10.5mph, the wave is money. I have not surfed behind a tomcat, but I have seen pictures of the surf wave, and it looks really really nice as well.

Oh, and btw, I always order my boats with the smallest stereo pack I can get and just build a wetsounds system. IMO, that's the best way to go. Regardless of what you buy, if you end up deciding to build a system, I'll be more than happy to offer some suggestions on what to buy and where.

Personally I chose the MB over the Axis, but agree with what Chat has said above. He made a good point about the stereo, save the money and do it aftermarket.

I have riden/surfed both the MB and Axis. Wakeboarding the MB is more of a vertical or a lippy/poppy wake if you will. versus the Axis which is shaped more rampy like a wake setter. Its all personal preference. The Axis will clean up at slower speeds than the MB (mine doesn't clean up well at all under 20mph), however the MB will throw the better surf wave. Simply differences in a deep-v hull versus a flat bottom hull.

F21 Tomcat, Factory ballast + 750# sac in rear locker.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...77933775_n.jpg

I'm sure you will be happy with either boat. Demo both and decided what works for you.

chattwake 07-31-2012 10:14 AM

Make sure when you demo the A22, if you try to surf, put weight in the nose. I found that was the key to a big clean wave.

geistwatersportscom 07-31-2012 1:41 PM

I have ridden both the Axis 22 and Tomcat this year. I have had 2 xstars over the last 6 years and ususally ride behind xstars. I was impressed by a big clean wake on both models. I like the "kick" at the top of each wake too! Alot of times I do not ride all the way through my long mellow xstar wake, then I line drive the trick. I liked that we could do less ballast on the Tomcat in my opinion and it is mega fast to fill and empty. I liked that room in the 21ft Tomcat because the back lockers are shortened so it seats as many as a 23 foot boat. The only thing that bugged me abou the Axis was the drivers seat area felt cramped to me. Plenty of great comments on here so I am not going to repeat any of them except on new boat the dealership relationship has been huge for me.

chicksdigflips 07-31-2012 3:36 PM

MB all the way.

I owned a A22 for a year . I hated it. Wake was inconsistent and took a lot of weight to make it worthy at 75-80ft. I went through over 3k of warranty work on mine alot of dumb stuff Tht just kept the boat off the water. Which they may of fixed in 2012.

MB wake is sick and the wakesurf is unreal. I like the fit and finish on the new 2012s and the gate ballast system makes life so easy. Now that they switched to indmar I think MB is a tough boat to beat for the money. Favorite part of the tomcat i was on we got to play with extra ballast I was amazed how well you can set it up to your prefrence. First setup we ran extra 800 in rear 500 in the bow it was really peaky similar to x25. Then we drained all and put a 750 in the bow. It was such a long transition similar to the xstar. Both of those had stock ballast full. If you get a chance get in an MB and place weight in different areas in the boat it is neat how you can change the wake to your riding style.

07-31-2012 3:38 PM

Nevermind

chattwake 07-31-2012 4:08 PM

I'm going to go on record here as saying this is the first time I've ever heard anybody say that the a22 wake is inconsistent. I've owned a bunch of different boats, and ridden behind a ton of different boats, and the a22 wake is the most consistent wake I have ever experienced. Very odd.

bruizza 07-31-2012 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1772524)
I'm going to go on record here as saying this is the first time I've ever heard anybody say that the a22 wake is inconsistent. I've owned a bunch of different boats, and ridden behind a ton of different boats, and the a22 wake is the most consistent wake I have ever experienced. Very odd.

This

seangriswold 07-31-2012 4:28 PM

great info on this thread. This seems to be a very common debate. I have been looking at both of these boats as well as the 23 widebody. You can't go wrong with either one. Demo, Demo, and Demo so when you make your choice and there are no surprises. I am interesting in seeing the 2013 A22 as well as a few more changes on the 2013 MB's.

surffresh 07-31-2012 4:42 PM

a lot of you guys crack me up, order boats with no stereo because Wet Sounds will give you everything you need....in what world I ask ??? and do they send out an instal guy also, love the concept :)

surffresh 07-31-2012 4:46 PM

ohhh I got it it's WAKEWORLD, tell Wet Sounds that you post in this world and they send the truck out....got it!!

22vdrive 07-31-2012 4:53 PM

I was in the same boat as you two years ago. I live here in Houston and sold my supra to get a new mb but not before I test drove an axis, centurion, and mb. I was comserened about not having a local dealer and the fact that the mb I wanted was all the way out in California. Axis is a very nice boat for the price, I'm young as well and believe that any boat as long as it runs properly is a fun. In the end I talked to Mike Brendel about my concerns and he assured me that ifi had any warranty problems they would take care of them. I use a local dealer that has pcms for all my work that needs repairing. I ended up going with the mb because I got an insane deal on it. I have absolutely no regrets about it and I believe I'm the only Houstonian with one. I bought my boat from Mike Murphy and we did the transaction through Texas Mastercraft in Fort Worth which now sells mb. The owner of the dealership could not believe I was getting all that boat for the price I was paying. The zero off is a great system it neve fails me I mainly use the rpm mode as I boat in a river and I found it to be the best way to get a perfect wake. I do lots o surfing and wakeboarding behind the boat an both are great. I say test drive both and base your opinion on that don't count mb out because your closest dealer is two hundred miles away. I wish my mb had in boat ballast sytem to compliment the pure very system but I believe you said the one you are eyeing has it which is a big plus. Good luck on finding the right boat and let us know what you ultimately choose.

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surffresh (Post 1772532)
a lot of you guys crack me up, order boats with no stereo because Wet Sounds will give you everything you need....in what world I ask ??? and do they send out an instal guy also, love the concept :)

LOL, well drew be honest.... just because MB is putting wetsounds stuff in the boat doesn't mean that they actually hooked it up correctly or tuned it. If you plan on putting a big system in an MB (or you even want their pretty decent factory system to sound good) you are either going to drag your boat to the stereo shop or undo their weird install quirks yourself.

Asking MB for stereo setup advice is like asking Mitt Romney for a beer recommendation.

surffresh 07-31-2012 5:04 PM

love it Shawn, gonna have one myself, not to be an asstronaut BUT, I see you point if you were able to get the boat straight from the factory, the dealer should take care of tuning it

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 5:15 PM

By "tuning" do you mean undoing the bow speakers from the deck and rewiring them to the amp? I'm saying that the factory doesn't actually wire the system correctly. That's more "fixing" than "tuning" in my book.

They are consistent though.

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 5:43 PM

And unfortunately this thread went the typical WW way... Was almost too good to be true.

Some of us have mechanical sense and can install wet sounds properly on our own, some can't. Some want their boat for wake boarding/surfing and could care less about the sound system.

Personally myself I'm not super concerned about interior sound yet. When Im anchored up in a cove were normally drinking, sitting on tubes and chilling in the sun, I'm not super concerned about the best bass or interior tune. However yes as far as tower speakers and when myself or someone is behind the boat yes I want the best sound possible.

Wetsounds systems are loot, and honestly I don't know if a full Wetsound will be in my plan as of yet. But building a killer wake and processing in wake boarding is certainly in my plan. So for those of you who stayed with the main topic at hand and gave some great advice loads of us appreciate it

shawndoggy 07-31-2012 5:59 PM

Rob, lets put it this way... if you buy the MB just plan on spending a couple hours getting the stereo components hooked up the way the manufacturer intended them to be, that's all. And MB actually installs really nice equipment in the boats. They just have absolutely no idea how to set it up properly (ask me how I know), so you need to give it a once over and you'll have a very above average factory install .

BTW, I don't know about axis, but I know that on the malibus, malibu does a terrible job of setting up their stereo components too. So it's not a manufacturer-specific problem.

Mahoney86 07-31-2012 6:03 PM

Yeah from what I can tell there is a lot of factory installs that no matter how good the sound system is its never installed right... But I guess for the general public it really doesn't matter.. I use to dable with car audio so I have certain expectations with sound systems myself, but others could care less

matt75 07-31-2012 6:53 PM

Agree with Chattwake- idk the scenario chicksdigflips, but have had several people that own different boats comment on how the wake doesn't wash easily on my Axis. I owned a Supra and always had to give seating instructions for crew to keep the wake consistent.

chicksdigflips 07-31-2012 9:30 PM

I never had a washing out problem.. Boat would handle identical weight setups differently each time. Was not just my opinion. we give a lot of lessons and would setup my Axis how ever the rider would like. even other axis owners would mention the wake was just off behind mine

hunter660 08-01-2012 6:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1772524)
I'm going to go on record here as saying this is the first time I've ever heard anybody say that the a22 wake is inconsistent. I've owned a bunch of different boats, and ridden behind a ton of different boats, and the a22 wake is the most consistent wake I have ever experienced. Very odd.

I own an MB, but I'm with Chatt on this one, I have never heard a bad word about the A22 wake.

Mahoney86 08-01-2012 7:28 AM

This is really the first time I have heard an Axis had finicky wake, IM sure its possible especally if the poster said others felt the same way, but just never heard of it myself


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