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-   -   "illegal immigrant" is considered a slur? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794302)

ttrigo 07-05-2012 3:14 PM

"illegal immigrant" is considered a slur?
 
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/opinio...tml?hpt=hp_bn7

how is this considered a slur? someone who has illegally entered our country, or overstayed their visa is comitting a federal crime, no? sneaking into the country is illegal. overstaying your visa is illegal. I dont get how this can be considered a slur.

wakeboardingdad 07-05-2012 3:56 PM

"When you label someone an "illegal alien" or "illegal immigrant" or just plain "illegal," you are effectively saying the individual, as opposed to the actions the person has taken, is unlawful. The terms imply the very existence of an unauthorized migrant in America is criminal.

In this country, there is still a presumption of innocence that requires a jury to convict someone of a crime. If you don't pay your taxes, are you an illegal? What if you get a speeding ticket? A murder conviction? No. You're still not an illegal. Even alleged terrorists and child molesters aren't labeled illegals."

People can rationalize anything and spin it to however they wish and people will eventually believe it and cling to it. It's the shape of things to come.

diamonddad 07-05-2012 5:20 PM

it's spin to win.

The dictionary is pretty clear what it means...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal+alien

illegal alien
noun
1. a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
2. a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.

snyder 07-06-2012 6:56 AM

From Wiki
Doublespeak is language that deliberately disguises, distorts, or reverses the meaning of words. Doublespeak may take the form of euphemisms (e.g., "downsizing" for layoffs, "servicing the target" for bombing [1]), making the truth less unpleasant, without denying its nature. It may also be deployed as intentional ambiguity, or reversal of meaning (for example, naming a state of war "peace"). In such cases, doublespeak disguises the nature of the truth, producing a communication bypass.

What is really important in the world of doublespeak is the ability to lie, whether knowingly or unconsciously, and to get away with it; and the ability to use lies and choose and shape facts selectively, blocking out those that don’t fit an agenda or program."

TerryR 07-06-2012 3:35 PM

AKA; if you murder then you are a murderer, speed you are a speeder, dont pay then you're a tax evader, child molest etc. If you violate immigration laws you are not a legal immigant, you are an illegal immigrant. Which doesn't make you any of the other lister violators.

deltahoosier 07-06-2012 8:13 PM

spread that wealth obama....

wake77 07-07-2012 6:21 AM

^wwjd?

wakeboardern1 07-07-2012 2:42 PM

He would willingly do what he could, and ask the same of others. He wouldn't take someone else's hard earned money and give it to others. He would ask that you help others out of the kindness of your heart rather than force you to help others.

Just saying. Jesus is not Robin Hood, no matter how much liberals want to make that argument.

deltahoosier 07-07-2012 9:35 PM

More jeremy deflection. Jesus clearly said obey the law of the land.

wakeboardingdad 07-07-2012 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryR (Post 1765396)
AKA; if you murder then you are a murderer, speed you are a speeder, dont pay then you're a tax evader, child molest etc. If you violate immigration laws you are not a legal immigant, you are an illegal immigrant. Which doesn't make you any of the other lister violators.

Terry, I believe you are talking about the quote I took from the article. My view is simple. An illegial immigrant is one who comes into the country illegially and has no intent in becoming a citizen. They are illegial and there is not way to spin it some way to make everyone warm and fuzzy.

wakeboardingdad 07-07-2012 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77 (Post 1765476)
^wwjd?

I expect nothing less from you Jeremy.

You are young and while I was not as informed (politically) as you when I was your age, I thought much like you (politically and questioned religion) when I was young before I had responsibility and family. I am currently in a very difficult time in my life and question my faith daily, but as I look back at certain occurences, even as recent this past weekend, those things were not just dumb luck or fate.

wake77 07-08-2012 6:30 AM

^So because I am not a "conservative" or a republican, that makes me politically immature? I would challenge that I am quite informed when it comes to politics and I am also well-versed when it comes to religion. I am almost positive I am not as young as you think. I am 34 (I'll be 35 in a couple of months), I have a family (have been married for 4 years and had a son in January), I served in the military for 6 years, and I have numerous responsibilities. I am not sure why "wwjd" would imply that I have a problem with religion or that I am sacrilegious.

Nick, I never equated Jesus to Robin Hood. You must have had that line on your mind for awhile and needed it to get it out.

wakeboardingdad 07-08-2012 7:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77 (Post 1765601)
^So because I am not a "conservative" or a republican, that makes me politically immature? I would challenge that I am quite informed when it comes to politics and I am also well-versed when it comes to religion. I am almost positive I am not as young as you think. I am 34 (I'll be 35 in a couple of months), I have a family (have been married for 4 years and had a son in January), I served in the military for 6 years, and I have numerous responsibilities. I am not sure why "wwjd" would imply that I have a problem with religion or that I am sacrilegious.

Nick, I never equated Jesus to Robin Hood. You must have had that line on your mind for awhile and needed it to get it out.

I read a lot of your posts because you make a lot of them. I stated that you are politcally well informed. I assumed that you have little responsibility because you state you are a student in your profile. I appreciate your service to the military.

Let me say this, which I am 100% correct in stating: Having a kid on the way and having a kid is two totally different things.

wakeboardern1 07-08-2012 11:55 AM

Oooh, aren't you just the clever one. How'd you know that I've been dying to use that for so long? You're just so much smarter than me dude.

Shockingly, it came up on the spot, and when you state "WWJD" after someone makes a mocking statement regarding spreading the wealth, it reminded me the typical liberal viewpoint where they always seem to say that it's truly christian to support policies such as Obama's. And by that I mean taxing people to pay for others. Which is not what Jesus would do. He wouldn't take from others to give to others. He wouldn't spread the wealth like that. So yeah, you may not have linked the two, but it is a very common attitude put forth by my liberal friends and peers, whether you'll admit it or not.

wake77 07-08-2012 2:02 PM

Wakeboardingdad, I'm not sure if your last sentence applies to me or not, but my son will be six months old this month.

Nick again don't lump me in with your "liberal" friends. And don't try to be a prophet as to what Jesus may or may not have done. That's you trying to fit Jesus into your own personal political mold. It doesn't work that way.

wakeboardingdad 07-08-2012 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77 (Post 1765663)
Wakeboardingdad, I'm not sure if your last sentence applies to me or not, but my son will be six months old this month.

I was out in the garage tonight, which is where I think about "stuff". I thought about having kids and when I began to consider how having kids changed my thoughts. You may not change, and that is fine, but having a child or even a, I don't know, a 8 year old is different than having a pre-teen and up. When they are infants, the world is pretty small to them and the effects of the news, politics and unfavorable outside influence it also small. Your's is big. However, as they venture out, begin to live and a parent sees how the outside world can influence, change their thoughts or harm them, you may change. I did.

wakeboardern1 07-08-2012 9:47 PM

Matthew 19:

21Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

27Then Peter said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29“And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. 30“But many who are first will be last; and the last, first.

Yup, totally TOTALLY warping the Gospel's words to fit my political beliefs. To be saved and to be one of his disciples, Jesus expected one to willingly give up all possessions and give them to the poor. He did not force anyone to do so. They were given the choice, give up everything and be saved/become a disciple, or do not.

P.S. I'm not even remotely religious, I just find it hilarious when people try to use religion to back up their political beliefs based off of what they have heard from pundits (I'm looking at all of you on the right when I say that as well). And when you give me a good reason to not lump you in with my left leaning friends, I won't do that. But as it stands, the vast majority of your statements on here match their beliefs. Maybe you're not, but I do a lot of reading on this site and you could have fooled me. I usually don't get involved, but I'm down for the count for a few days thanks to surgery and am bored.

Michael 07-09-2012 10:30 AM

Can you guys hug it out and get back to the point?

When are we going to stop catering to these people? We should not feel like it is wrong to call them "Illegal Emigrants" or "Illegal Aliens"... They are breaking the law, plain and simple. If they want to be treated like an American, do it the right way and become one. (Sorry, a little harsh and I do have compassion for people)

fly135 07-09-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeboardern1 (Post 1765650)
Which is not what Jesus would do. He wouldn't take from others to give to others. He wouldn't spread the wealth like that.

You clearly haven't read Acts. God even killed a believer for withholding some.

Jeremy, never ask a Christian WWJD. They might get a clue and the next thing you know... Heaven will be overrun with them.:p

Raf1985 07-09-2012 6:03 PM

Hey look! another wakeworld thread that turned into a religious/political debate!

deltahoosier 07-10-2012 11:55 AM

When people can not actually defend their point (liberals), they always try and turn it into a deflection contest. They know illegal immigration is wrong but in order to keep their DNC card they have to tow the party line. SHARE THAT WEALTH! SHARE THAT WEALTH!! SHARE THAT WEALTH!!! What? They don't mean us? Ah crap......errrrr...............wwjd?


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