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-   -   Why are people hating mastercraft boats for surfing? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794002)

jfd 06-18-2012 9:09 PM

Why are people hating mastercraft boats for surfing?
 
I've been reading on wakeworld for a while and it seems that a lot of people are bashing on MC boats for surfing... Is there a reason for that?

I'm wondering because my family purchased an MC this season and i'm pretty sure the surf wake can compare to what the usual "surf boat" (tige, centurion, etc.) can produce.

Any love, hate or explanation would be appeeciated!

jfd 06-18-2012 9:12 PM

Here's what the wake looks like, pretty much waist high for my bro who's 6'2"

http://img.tapatalk.com/b89772bf-fc1a-99d7.jpg

cbaker87 06-19-2012 4:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1760940)
Here's what the wake looks like, pretty much waist high for my bro who's 6'2"

http://img.tapatalk.com/b89772bf-fc1a-99d7.jpg


Sick wake what boat and what setup do you have?

jfd 06-19-2012 4:39 AM

X15 with 400 over the hard tank in the locker and about 800 on the rear seat in a "L" shape. No weight up front.

surffresh 06-19-2012 5:21 AM

1 Attachment(s)
MC makes awesome boats, I do believe that a MC can make a good wave but I have not ridden a great one yet.... it may be out there, Surf snobs demand a few things with the wave; long, clean with some height , push, firm lip not washey, On the boat side and these are really bonus because any surfer loves a good ride; hidden bags, not to overload like 3000 plus, automated for fast changeovers, and I believe it is a super bonus if the boat is better than good on both sides.

tuneman 06-19-2012 6:21 AM

There's a lot more to it than just how a wave "looks". The majority of MC boats have a fairly flat bottom, which doesn't help in the 'push' factor. Take that same amount of weight and put it into a Centurion or Tige and you'll understand better. These boats give you push throughout the wave(enormous sweet spot). Flat bottom boats tend to have a very small sweet spot. A simple picture of the wave can't tell you that.

hunter660 06-19-2012 6:44 AM

My experience with most MC boats I have tried to surf are you can get a big, clean looking wave, but it lacks push and you have to ride very close to the platform. However I have not been behind ALL MC hulls nor have I tried every weighting setup.

jfd 06-19-2012 7:15 AM

I understand what you guys are saying about the push factor, i've ridden lots of x2 and xstar in the last couple of years and there is a difference in the push, the x15 that I am now ridding has a lot of push! Ennough that I could say I need to stop myself from going on the plate when landing a trick insted of pumping like a mad man.

The only thing that bugs me is that people claim that all mc boats suck at surfing and compare them to 24 feet boats. I'm pretty shure my wake is has good has a 21" centurion, wich i guess would be the avy.

I'm just saying that wittin a brand, different models produce different results

hunter660 06-19-2012 7:22 AM

I have not tried an X15 or the new X30.

jfd 06-19-2012 7:35 AM

This pic was starboard side, first day with the boat on the lake!
stock with 300 in rear locker, stbd and center tank full.

http://img.tapatalk.com/b89772bf-8db7-f013.jpg

And before people start calling me a brand guy or whatever, i like mc, but i also like pretty much all wakeboard specific boat brand, i'm just wondering why mc is bashed!

And i had some spare time and a debate is always fun!

ed_g 06-19-2012 9:50 AM

I taught a guy how to surf using his X2.

Nice boat, but I have to say my 2009 Moomba Outback V puts out a much nicer wave.

lakesurfer 06-19-2012 12:30 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1760994)
I'm pretty shure my wake is has good has a 21" centurion, wich i guess would be the avy.

That pick of your regular wave is not good and does not even compare to the long, clean heavy wave you get from an Avy (which is 22ft).

With regards to MC, they make a ton of models. So I do think most people make a blanket statement. With that said, the only model that would be able to put out a comp level is the X25. I am not saying your wave does not work and is not a nice solid wave. I am just saying it does not compare to the Centurion/Bu/Tige/Sanger/etc waves. So when people are looking for surf boats, why would you spend all of that money on a MC when you can boat that will have a better surf wave and more than likely will be a bigger boat (since MC cost so much).

Note: My 1st boat was a MC, so I am not brand bashing. This just realistic.

lakesurfer 06-19-2012 12:38 PM

Here is an Enzo 244 with just a driver. You can also go see the Supreme 226/Tige Z3/Enzo 211 wave at Wake9.com.

tonyv420 06-19-2012 2:17 PM

Not bashing MC, but there is no way a X15 can produce a wave comparable to a 22ft Avalanche......jsut sayin

vman 06-19-2012 2:47 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1760939)
it seems that a lot of people are bashing on MC boats for surfing... Is there a reason for that?

It's probably because a few Mastercraft wielding prima donnas think that they have found the answer to the ultimate surf wake. And post pictures of said crappy, washed out wake....I am, of course typing sarcastically here....As long as you are happy with your surf wake, what everyone else thinks just doesn't matter. And with all due respect to a fellow MC owner, most of the posters on this forum know exactly what they are talking about. I respect their opinions and have surfed behind many of their boats. The truth is Mastercraft has not kept up with the innovations specific to the sport of wakesurfing. However, I do believe that there are a few MC's that put out a remarkable platform for surfing. You will just need a barrel of cash in order to enjoy one.

Surffresh is absolutely right. Don't think of it as bashing...just constructive criticism.

@lakesurfer. Shame on you for not including a rider in your photo.:p

jfd 06-19-2012 3:12 PM

I got to admit that the port side wave of centurion looks amazing... i've only ridden an enzo 230 once on stardboard side since i'm goofy and I was a little disapointed, to wake was really tall and had lots of push was was super short, compared to the port side,

Do people absolutly need to buy these boat with the right side surf option to have a good wake starboard?



Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyv420 (Post 1761109)
Not bashing MC, but there is no way a X15 can produce a wave comparable to a 22ft Avalanche......jsut sayin

here's a nice video of a avalanche wake, really an amazing wake compared to mine... just sayin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLUHLSSuJw


Quote:

Originally Posted by lakesurfer (Post 1761074)
So when people are looking for surf boats, why would you spend all of that money on a MC when you can boat that will have a better surf wave and more than likely will be a bigger boat (since MC cost so much).

Note: My 1st boat was a MC, so I am not brand bashing. This just realistic.

I know I got a good deal for my X15 when I bought it at the end of last season, but what could I have bought for 56K, including taxes, well equiped without the trailer. thanks!

lakesurfer 06-19-2012 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vman (Post 1761119)

@lakesurfer. Shame on you for not including a rider in your photo.:p

I know, I tried to find one but I lost a ton of pics on my last computer. The pic is a little misleading with the angle, but there are a ton of vids/pics of the Avy wave. With that said, the Avy wave is awesome

lakesurfer 06-19-2012 3:36 PM

1. Do people absolutly need to buy these boat with the right side surf option to have a good wake starboard?

On the Enzo, it is ideal if you by the bout with the side you surf the boat. With that said, with a auto trim tab and around 500lbs more on the dark side you can get a really nice wave. It still wont be as nice as the regular side but it still will be nicer than most other boats.


2. here's a nice video of a avalanche wake, really an amazing wake compared to mine... just sayin'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLUHLSSuJw

To be honest, that guys Avy wave really needs some work. If you think that is nice, you will be shocked when you get on a boat with a dialed in surf wave



3. I know I got a good deal for my X15 when I bought it at the end of last season, but what could I have bought for 56K, including taxes, well equiped without the trailer. thanks!

So lets say $60K with a trailer. That is a good budget, especially if you are willing to buy a slightly used one

Centurion Avy/Enzo 230/Enzo 240
Supreme 226
Sanger 237
Tige 22Ve/24Ve/RZ2
Bu 23
MB 21/23

surffresh 06-19-2012 3:39 PM

2 Attachment(s)
could have easily gotten a MB B52 23V, correct me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure that during the SAC boat show, Larson was selling those for 55 on the trailer (virtually no freight) , you will need a trim plate to get the wave as clean as the one I posted earlier and a plug n play or you could save a few and Tsunami it. Also I do believe it's time to put MB into this surf mix with Centurion, Tige, and Sanger. The only BU that I rode that was outstanding was a 247, the 23's not so much.The V on MB's is deeper than most and the waves I am getting are hard to beat, never said better, best, etc. and yes I do have a stake in MB, so if you don't believe me....just look at the pics :)

jfd 06-19-2012 3:47 PM

60k was all included for brand new boat, 0 hours, including a 14% canadian and provincial taxes.

and by the way, I was sarcastic about the guy's avy wake... I think it really is awfull and the guy needs to be constantly turning...

still waiting fort starboard side pics :P

And by the way guys, I know that a lot of boats can put out a better surf wave than a 21.5' X15, just wondering why nobody ever gives credit to MC over here...
I think any boat can put out a nice wave, as long as it's dialed in.

Just a little note about the Bu, to get a long and high wake on these boats, the vtx (20') and vlx (21') aren't enough...

jfd 06-19-2012 3:49 PM

And I don't think MB boats are sold in canada... and even if they would, I don't think I would have sacrificed MC quality of build, for the same price as a MB, even if the wake was a little better.

malibu 06-19-2012 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vman (Post 1761119)
It's probably because a few Mastercraft wielding prima donnas think that they have found the answer to the ultimate surf wake. And post pictures of said crappy, washed out wake....I am, of course typing sarcastically here....As long as you are happy with your surf wake, what everyone else thinks just doesn't matter. And with all due respect to a fellow MC owner, most of the posters on this forum know exactly what they are talking about. I respect their opinions and have surfed behind many of their boats. The truth is Mastercraft has not kept up with the innovations specific to the sport of wakesurfing. However, I do believe that there are a few MC's that put out a remarkable platform for surfing. You will just need a barrel of cash in order to enjoy one.

Mike, your Mastercraft X45 wave was soooo much fun to ride. It has height, it's clean and I was so far back and could recover easily. I have surfed an Enzo, Avalanche, Supreme, Malibu, 3 Tige's and of course my Sanger. After riding your wave, I was ready to move to AZ and become a regular member of your crew! Before you bash Mastercraft you have to surf a properly weighted X45 but then you will want one.

superfluous 06-19-2012 3:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761147)
And by the way guys, I know that a lot of boats can put out a better surf wave than a 21.5' X15, just wondering why nobody ever gives credit to MC over here...
I think any boat can put out a nice wave, as long as it's dialed in.

I agree with the other guys. I've spent a whole bunch of time behind an X15 over the last 5 years and the wave is mediocre compared to the other boats mentioned in this thread. Even when the X15 is dialed in with a ton more weight.

I would not described the X15 wake as "nice." Can I still have fun? Sure. Can I have much more fun on other waves with less hassle as well, absolutely.

That's why I don't give MC wakesurfing credit...

jfd 06-19-2012 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfluous (Post 1761158)
I agree with the other guys. I've spent a whole bunch of time behind an X15 over the last 5 years and the wave is mediocre compared to the other boats mentioned in this thread. Even when the X15 is dialed in with a ton more weight.

I would not described the X15 wake as "nice." Can I still have fun? Sure. Can I have much more fun on other waves with less hassle as well, absolutely.

That's why I don't give MC wakesurfing credit...

so basicly your setup was to put as much fat sacs on the floor as possible?

superfluous 06-19-2012 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761161)
so basicly your setup was to put as much fat sacs on the floor as possible?

No.

surffresh 06-19-2012 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761148)
And I don't think MB boats are sold in canada... and even if they would, I don't think I would have sacrificed MC quality of build, for the same price as a MB, even if the wake was a little better.

Just sold a guy a 23 MB, he worked for MC and was offered a "deal" from MC and chose the MB, they were within 3 grand of each other, bling...yes....build ummmm???

jfd 06-19-2012 4:11 PM

so...what as it then?

surffresh 06-19-2012 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761167)
so...what as it then?

anyone care to translate, he may not even be asking me something

superfluous 06-19-2012 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761167)
so...what as it then?

In case that was directed at me (the quote function must be lost in translation).

We tried all the different combinations and the best wave is all stock ballast full, 250 lbs of lead in the rear corner, two sacks on top of that (filling the locker), big fatty on the floor surf side, another smaller bag next to it, and a tube sac in the front walkway.

11 mph and all the folks on the surf side (the fatter the better).

jfd 06-19-2012 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfluous (Post 1761203)
In case that was directed at me (the quote function must be lost in translation).

We tried all the different combinations and the best wave is all stock ballast full, 250 lbs of lead in the rear corner, two sacks on top of that (filling the locker), big fatty on the floor surf side, another smaller bag next to it, and a tube sac in the front walkway.

11 mph and all the folks on the surf side (the fatter the better).

got any pic of what the wake looks like?

here is what i'm running:
i'm running stbd side full with pnp over that fills in the locker completely, 500 on the back seat and 500 on the seat on the side we are surfing. we put a small (maybe 300 lbs) on the floor next to the seat on the side we ride. Also KGB is full.

the result is pretty good!

superfluous 06-19-2012 7:19 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761212)
got any pic of what the wake looks like?

Both riders are 8 feet tall.

ilikebeaverandboats 06-19-2012 7:19 PM

There has been only one occasion when I have seen a MC surf wave that I was like.... "Damn!" and it was in a slayshtank video with hazen.
I can't find the video, but here are some links to pictures.
Talk about some lean... the freakin chines on starboard side are practically out of the water...
http://slayshtank.com/2011/03/tsrmastercraftwakesurf/
http://slayshtank.com/2011/06/mastercraftwakesurf/

jfd 06-19-2012 7:56 PM

quick video made this week-end, it's possible to see how the wake looked!
superflous, was your wake a little like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORPJr...ature=youtu.be

superfluous 06-19-2012 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1761231)
, was your wake a little like this?

It's not my wake/boat, it's my buddy's.

Yes, his wave is a bit bigger but has the same flattish profile. He has the fiberglass platform and I think it drags more than the teak one in the video.

jfd 06-19-2012 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfluous (Post 1761234)
It's not my wake/boat, it's my buddy's.

Yes, his wave is a bit bigger but has the same flattish profile. He has the fiberglass platform and I think it drags more than the teak one in the video.

i've heard rumors that the fiberglass platform is messing up the wave, can you confirm that?

tonyv420 06-20-2012 10:49 AM

Now as far as MikeV wave goes, I'm not sure what MC he has, but his wave is awesome looking. Has to be the best MC wave Ive seen! Super clean and long!!

vman 06-20-2012 12:39 PM

The '45 with Stacia B.


http://youtu.be/HuZ1_zZWGyw

SteveO 06-20-2012 9:52 PM

The X15 is a great all around boat. We bought one the middle of May last year and put 110 hrs on it in 3 months, all surfing. I absolutely loved the boat until my buddy bought a 2012 Tige RZ2. One day of surfing behind a boat with a world class wave, and I realized that I wanted a surf specific boat. We ended up getting a Supreme V226 (I liked the smoother transition on the V226) last August and the difference in the push and length of the wave is significant. Another bonus of the Supreme is that there is no ballast on the seats, it all fits in the compartments.

It looks like you get along pretty darn good with the X15, so stick with it. I suggest you don't surf behind an Enzo/V226/Tige or MB, because you'll probably buy one.

tonyv420 06-20-2012 9:55 PM

Nice vid!

itsme 06-21-2012 9:02 AM

I have had 7 different MC's over time and we have surfed them all. Each one is capable, some more than others.

As with any boat, it takes time and testing to get the weight right in the boat to max the wake.

1991 ProStar 190 - Yep! You can do it!! It is terrible, but if you weight the crap out of the port side from stern to the passenger seatbase, it can be done.

2004 X2 (Now the X1, formerly the 205) Shorter, steeper wake but clean.

2005 X10 - Smaller, harder to clean up and not a ton of push. (my least favorite model)

Newer model X2's (with picklefork) we have owned: 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 - Was a great surf boat! Additional 750 plumbed into the rear lockers in addition to the stock rear ballast + 900lb Sumo sac on the port seat about half way up. Makes for a great shaped wake with some decent push. Better fuel economy as well it seemed.

Best MC wakesurf wake (IMO), X45. We rode with Mikev and Angie last fall in AZ. Super heavy wave with awesome shape and the most push I've experienced. All of that, and he did not have to totally slam it with weight.

bcrider 06-21-2012 9:09 AM

There are at least two MB dealers in Canada that I know of. Enzo in Richmond BC and Gilligan's boats in Alberta.
http://www.nautiques.ca/cs/
http://www.gilligansboats.ca/invento...r=Price%20Desc

jfd 06-21-2012 9:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrider (Post 1761650)
There are at least two MB dealers in Canada that I know of. Enzo in Richmond BC and Gilligan's boats in Alberta.
http://www.nautiques.ca/cs/
http://www.gilligansboats.ca/invento...r=Price%20Desc

Haha the closest one is just 3500 km or 1 day 17 hours of driving away... A little far away for the tune-ups!

bcrider 06-21-2012 10:43 AM

Just telling you that MB's are sold in Canada. I have a 2000 MB. Up until recently the closest MB dealer was in Seattle 2.5hrs away. I can take my boat to any PCM dealer (Nautique & Tige) not that I ever have. I do all fluid changes myself.

vman 06-21-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsme (Post 1761647)
Best MC wakesurf wake (IMO), X45. We rode with Mikev and Angie last fall in AZ. Super heavy wave with awesome shape and the most push I've experienced. All of that, and he did not have to totally slam it with weight.

Thanks SB. That means a lot coming from my favorite pro rider:)

TheWoons 07-05-2012 8:37 PM

Here's some vids of a properly setup 2012 X25 Mastercraft. The wave is long, steep and clean. There's over 2600lbs of ballast in our boat and nothing is on the seats. It's all underneath.

Video 1

http://youtu.be/jY2NpeIjBrY?hd=1

Video 2. She didn't lose it at the end of the video, she saved it but my buddy cut the clip so the clips weren't too long.

http://youtu.be/yd4dQVK4GQA?hd=1

Video 3. This is my buddy Mike. He's 220lbs. I took him once last week and he made a few hits and today was his second time ever surfing. He's hooked on wake surfing to say the least. He was so stoked to ride all over wireless.

http://youtu.be/aNb2FwN0zYE?hd=1

jfd 07-05-2012 9:05 PM

hey Ryan that wakes looks CLEAN! is the wake on the starboard side as good?

TheWoons 07-05-2012 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfd (Post 1765140)
hey Ryan that wakes looks CLEAN! is the wake on the starboard side as good?

Yes it sure is!


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