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-   -   Another Pitbull Related Killing... (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=793692)

hatepain 06-02-2012 11:03 AM

Another Pitbull Related Killing...
 
...and this time it was a 3 day old. So sad. Solid choice Ohio moving them off the vicious list.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...s-vicious-list

hatepain 06-02-2012 11:04 AM

BAHHH! Dave can you move this to the non wakeboarding section please

slax303 06-02-2012 1:47 PM

You're an idiot.. Blame the owner. Blame the way it was raised. If it isn't taught how to behave, it will do stupid things. PRoblem is that every dumbass who thinks their a badass gets a Pit because they think it will make them cool, and dont actually both training the dog. There are 10000x1 more AMAZING Pits in the world who are loving, and loyal dogs. If you don't raise them properly, just like any other dog, they can bite you. Only difference is that Pits are more powerful so they do more damage, thus getting more publicity. Pitbulls are amazing dogs, you just cant be a dumbass if you want to own one.

boomshot 06-02-2012 4:57 PM

So sad. Poor little kid and family. This makes me so sad. Make no mistake, these dogs are bred to be strong and single-minded, if not mean. A breed of dog that the world could very well be better without. They are dumb, viscious animals. In this thread, the pit bull defense squad has already arrived, we're already hearing that it isn't the case that this breed is bad news... but it is. I assosciate these dogs with undesirable people. And undesireables are drawn toward undesirable dogs. Why have I never seen a Tapout/MMA douche posing with an austrailian shepherd? Why aren't there mauling attacks by golden retrievers?

wakebrdjay 06-02-2012 5:17 PM

Just delete it all together,it will become another giant WW pissing match.

hatepain 06-02-2012 5:30 PM

Quote:

Pitbulls are amazing dogs, you just cant be a dumbass if you want to own one.
And why is that? Can dumb asses own less vicious and dangerous dogs?

The big defense for pitbulls is always the same thing. They had to have idiot owners. The facts are any dog can flip on a person but these dogs do way more damage when they do.

boomshot 06-02-2012 5:38 PM

Agreed. Delete this turd. Nobody wins in a **** show thread like this.

Please nuke.

WakeDirt 06-02-2012 5:43 PM

This is dumb.

hatepain 06-02-2012 5:54 PM

No one ever won an argument in the Non-Wakeboarding section, thats why I want it there :)

boomshot 06-02-2012 6:21 PM

So you posted this as a joke, mr smile face?
Go die. Don't care what side you are on.

MattieK27 06-02-2012 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slax303 (Post 1756685)
You're an idiot.. Blame the owner. Blame the way it was raised. If it isn't taught how to behave, it will do stupid things. PRoblem is that every dumbass who thinks their a badass gets a Pit because they think it will make them cool, and dont actually both training the dog. There are 10000x1 more AMAZING Pits in the world who are loving, and loyal dogs. If you don't raise them properly, just like any other dog, they can bite you. Only difference is that Pits are more powerful so they do more damage, thus getting more publicity. Pitbulls are amazing dogs, you just cant be a dumbass if you want to own one.

Oh the irony that most of the people that own them are dumbasses...

wakebrdjay 06-02-2012 6:51 PM

I'm not getting into the pitbull argument,but why in the world would a 3 day old even be left in position for this to happen?100% the parents fault.A chihuahua could kill a 3 day old.

simplej 06-02-2012 6:53 PM

^a chihuahua would just shiver and **** itself in fear

wakebrdjay 06-02-2012 6:56 PM

LOL I've seen a few of 'em with pretty severe "little guy syndrome".

simplej 06-02-2012 7:05 PM

Every chihuahua I've ever seen either shivers in a corner afraid -or- growls at everything that moves but backs off immediately. Besides if it was attacking your child uou could just Kick it square across the room, but I understand your point

hatepain 06-03-2012 7:09 AM

Quote:

So you posted this as a joke, mr smile face? Go die. Don't care what side you are on.
Yep I posted a story about a 3 day old getting killed as a joke. I jokes regarding the Non-Wakeboarding section.

Go die!? Dude what the hell is wrong with you?

jperkinsttu 06-03-2012 2:07 PM

http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...owns-pool.html

Should prolly blame the pool not the parents. You're points are always the same as well. Get over your hate for the dogs and let it go.

dakid 06-03-2012 6:24 PM

http://www.joeumali.com/wp-content/g...l/dsc_0085.jpg

http://www.joeumali.com/wp-content/g...l/dsc_0075.jpg

jason_ssr 06-04-2012 6:40 AM

Great looking pups! Sadly, cute doesnt equal safe.

jarrod 06-04-2012 8:39 AM

"Only difference is that Pits are more powerful so they do more damage"

Which is why I will never trust my kid alone with any Pitbull. Every breed has bad dogs that snap. When a Pitbull snaps it destroys, and unless you have a gun, you're not stopping it. I have friends that have great, loving Pitbulls, but as a protective dad, I can't bring myself to trust them.

Training and upbringing is no substitute for instinct.

wakereviews 06-04-2012 8:43 AM

^^^ this is where I am at too

jarrod 06-04-2012 8:48 AM

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-sta...tt-clifton.php

poser007 06-04-2012 9:43 AM

Anyone who says Pit Bulls are not potentially dangerous are fools. They have a huge history of attacks. I used to have a chow and chows are notorious for attacking people yet mine was so cute and furry I thought nah there is no way this cute thing would ever hurt anyone. My wife's brother came to visit and when he saw the dog he went over to pet it. As he reached out his hand the dog tore into his flesh and started shaking his head back and forth. Needless to say he had to go to the ER for stitches and a shot. My dog had never showed aggression before that incident.

The dog was trained fairly well and we kept him for a few more months until another little episode in which the dog actually turned on me. The crazy thing is we never saw it coming. It was just in the dogs nature to react this way on weird occasions. My friends chow did the exact same thing and they got rid of theirs to. Pit's are worse because of their size and strength. believe me, this won't be the last time we hear about a pit attacking a family member.

PS I've got nothing against Pit Bulls But when you swim with a shark sometimes you get bit.

diamonddad 06-04-2012 9:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yikes! The stats from that website are quite the indictment of PitBulls.

jarrod 06-04-2012 12:31 PM

"The mother and grandmother were just a few feet away in the kitchen when they heard a whimper from the infant, according to the deputy."

This has stuck with me all day. Absolutely terrible.

hatepain 06-04-2012 12:45 PM

Yes and I'm sure they felt that their dog was just as safe as many of the owners do. I couldn't imagine the horror. I'm so thankful that I was there and happen to have a shovel the day my neighbors dog came into my yard and started coming after my then 4 year old. Fortunately I was able to scare her off.

psudy 06-04-2012 1:04 PM

You have more control than me. If someones dog came into my yard and went after my kid, it would be one dead F*(). dog. If it got ahold of my kid, the owner would be laying next to it.

dakid 06-04-2012 1:43 PM

for the record, as awesome and as lovable as my sister's dog is (pictured above), i still don't trust leaving my dogs alone w/ him. he's a great dog but i'm with you all; i just don't want to chance him snapping one day and killing my dogs.

migs 06-04-2012 1:44 PM

psudy - agreed

deltahoosier 06-04-2012 2:03 PM

The dogs are bread to be dog aggressive. My little boarder collie has only seen one cow in it's life and never got to go near it. Never seen a sheep, but it tries to herd everything in site. If it is moving, it is trying to herd it. It is what the dog does. Owners can only go so far to tame instincts. Some breeds have bloodlines that have stronger instincts than others too. That is why people pay top dollar for dogs that have strong instinct lines. Dogs are bread to do what dogs do.

ttrigo 06-04-2012 2:52 PM

bull mastiffs, are presa canarios? I thought Presas were their own breed?
dont leave any dog alone with small children. period. I saw a 2 year old neighbor get mauled by its own pure bred black lab. it happens. pit bulls are extremely strong dogs. they do more damage purely based on strength. and yes, ****ty owners have ****ty dogs.

jarrod 06-04-2012 3:02 PM

^^^ I thought the same thing. I wondered if they meant Fila, or Brazilian Mastiff, which is known to be unfriendly in general.

poser007 06-04-2012 4:48 PM

Holy cow Umali I haven't seen a post form you in forever.

lfadam 06-04-2012 8:14 PM

My sister has been fostering a pitbull for about a year-scared @#^less of everyone until you get to know her. Never been aggressive-not once. My freakin cat used to beat her up and scare her away. Zero fear of her attacking someone. And if she did, she is a relatively small pitbull, I am pretty confident I could kick her away fairly easily. Great dog. Just my personal experience

jetskiprosx 06-04-2012 8:22 PM

That's nuts about the lab mauling the little kid. My 18 month old crawls all over our 90lb. chocolate lab and when he's had enough ear pulling and eye gauging he simply stands up and walks away.

plhorn 06-05-2012 3:16 AM

If you take into account the percentage of the dog population, which is the only way to look at how likely a pitbull will attack vs. some other dog the numbers look like this:
Breed Bodily harm Child Victims Adult Victims Deaths Maimings
Pit bull terrier 597 250 208 63 331
Rottweiler 1603 907 420 260 893
Husky 33 21 2 11 9
Wolf hybrid 840 690 50 190 480
Bullmastiff*(Presa*canario) 380 150 140 55 220
German shepherd 64 40 18 9 39
Akita 163 105 48 20 118
Chow 77 51 21 10 51
Doberman 21 11 10 10 10


So its still a seriously F'd up dog, but its better than having a Rottweiler or a Wolf hybrid.

jason_ssr 06-05-2012 5:33 AM

Around here, the only difference between pitbull owners and lion owners is that lion owners do not pretend its harmless. Yes, they have lions in their houses and they wrestle and play and all the other things people do with their pets, but they do not forget for a second that they are killing machines. Oddly enough, we have next to zero cases of big cat maulings. If pitbull owners would do the same and treat their pet as what it is at all times, we wouldnt have these issues.

Yes, the pitbull problem is directly related to the owner, but its not a lack of love or training. Its an owners lack of respect of the killing machine he owns. Its owners with blinders on saying "my pitbull is harmless, he is well trained and loved". You cannot train and love these animals enough to make them harmless. However, like the lion owners around here, as long as an owner understands that the disposition of the animal can change and present a risk, and they treat the animal as such at all times, ownership can be a pleasant and enjoyable experience.

Pitbulls do not scare me. Ive played with and enjoyed time with more than I can count. What scares me is owners who do not respect them for what they are and expose everyone else to the risk.

ttrigo 06-05-2012 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetskiprosx (Post 1757329)
That's nuts about the lab mauling the little kid. My 18 month old crawls all over our 90lb. chocolate lab and when he's had enough ear pulling and eye gauging he simply stands up and walks away.

I was 5 or 6 at the time, and i still see it happening in my head. It lasted about 10 seconds, and left a lasting impression on me, to say the least.

scotthons 06-05-2012 10:29 AM

My wife got two rescue puppies over seven years ago before I met her. One is a pit bull/mastiff mix and the other is a Rot/Australian Sheppard mix. She just thought they were cute puppies and wanted larger dogs since she lived alone. They are very sweet dogs and we have never had a problem, but I am still scared owning those breeds. I cringe when people ask what kind of dogs we have. We don't have kids yet, but anytime people who do have kids come over we always put the boys in the garage. We also have invisible fence put around the house to ensure they can not escape. Again, they are the sweetest dogs, but I will take every precaution we can to ensure that we don't end up on the nightly news.

wakereviews 06-05-2012 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lfadam (Post 1757323)
My sister has been fostering a pitbull for about a year-scared @#^less of everyone until you get to know her. Never been aggressive-not once. My freakin cat used to beat her up and scare her away. Zero fear of her attacking someone. And if she did, she is a relatively small pitbull, I am pretty confident I could kick her away fairly easily. Great dog. Just my personal experience


IMO, i'd be more tenative about a skiddish dog lacking confidence.

kstateskier 06-05-2012 8:54 PM

I'll keep my lab and golden retriever. I once caught a friends kid kicking my lab in the stomach because he thought it was cool. She just kept backing up and staring at him wondering why she was getting pummeled. Never even growled. I don't think my golden has a mean bone in his body. I just can't see having a dog that could have a killer instinct.

That being said, I always know exactly where my dogs are, and if there are kids in the house, I don't leave their side. Trusting animals 100% will always put you in a bad place.

williamburell 06-06-2012 6:22 AM

Cold blooded killa right here

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...83432148_n.jpg

His girlfriend is vicious too
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5689338_n.jpg

GRad 06-06-2012 7:07 AM

Pitts
 
Im in the middle. Family has always had Pitts, they have been the most emotionally attached and gentle dogs ever owned but I know the danger present. When I moved in with my girlfriend she had a miniature pincher so my Pitt went to stay at my parents because I knew her dog has little man syndrome and it would take one chomp in retaliation to end his life. Now I have a one year old little girl and when she's at my parents the pitt is either outside or locked in a room. Never done anything violent but just because a gun has a safety you don't leave it out on the counter right?
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/76c71e99.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/060892c1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/c76a9811.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...1/e06aeb4d.jpg

williamburell 06-06-2012 7:07 AM

Actually I'm gonna open my mouth a lil further on this. Haters gon' hate so o well. I'm not gonna argue with anyone just stating my opinions. Don't like it.......don't read it.

I've been involved with pit bulls for alil over 10 years now. I have been involved in rescue for about 6 years and have had over 50 pit bull fosters not including large litters so I guess that qualifies me about knowing alil bit. I've also had my arm fractured from a fighting pit that was on the way to be PTS so I know exactly what they are capable of when mishandled. They are an extremely screwed breed in my opinion. Very sweet, loyal, and great family animals. My pitties are like parents to my kids and watch over them 24-7. You can't pull my male away from my 6 year old. He pretty much is papa dog and makes sure he is safe.

While having all of these great qualities they have a few that require special owners. They are extremely high energy. I can run mine for 5 miles and they are still going strong. With that comes the need for ALOT of training to keep them from bouncing off the walls. People freak out when they run around them or if they are wrestling in the backyard. My neighbor was petrified when me and my 3 pitties moved in. He went as far as trying to make me build an 8 ft fence so he couldn't see them. Now I cant keep him from giving them kisses over the fence so matter how much I remind him their favorite hobby is licking their own ass.

They are strong. Pits are alot like a porsche. If you gave your 16 year old the keys to a 911 I wouldn't expect them to make it home ok. You have to know what you are doing because an inproperly trained dog of any type can cause problems. These problems are just way more evident in a dog that can drag a car behind them. This is why I require all my adopters to take training classes with their pets.

Owners are terrible. This falls into the above but lets be honest here. If pits were only owned by John Doe down in the culdesac no one would judge them. Instead we have backyard breeders, fighters, and ghetto aholes who don't take care of their animals letting them do whatever. You take ANY dog, beat it, dont feed it, and then let it run loose and someone is getting F'd up.

Population and identification- double problem here. The pit bull population is out of control. This falls under crappy ownership and banning them etc isn't going to help. They'll just breed more. Education is the key but none the less there are far more pits running the streets than labs etc. Another issue is a large majority of these attacks are not pits. Not many people can pick out a ridgeback vs a mastiff vs a pit vs a dogo etc. The world loves a good pit bull attack! I mean gawley lets read about the big bad pit bulls. A freaking ridgeback mix with a 1/16th pit bites grandma in the ass b/c she smells like mothballs and its a PIT ATTACK!

I would think most of this would be common sense considering the world does this with everything. I mean if you see anyone from the middle east walking into an airport whats your first thought? We are all guilty of media and mental shaping due to events whether they happened or not. 10 years ago Rotties were the devil, 10 before that the dobe's were maneaters, and before that the german shepard. 60 years ago the pit was the american dog. The army used them on billboards, families had them sitting underneath kitchen tables during dinner, and they were tv stars. Now they are on rap cd covers and used to fight.

Everyone is so hell bent on anti pit propoganda but ignores the owners just like everything else in America. We bitch about taxes etc but don't go on an ass whipping journey to get crackheads and baby makers off welfare. We love some illegals putting on our roofs for cheap but they can stay here for free. We gripe about end problems but never the cause. Want to fix the vicious pit bull?..........fix the stupid ass owners. Banning pit bulls is about as american as cutting our rights to own guns or saying you can't wakesurf because its dangerous.

You don't like Pits? Cool with me and no slack off my ass. Wanna ban pits you better know wtf you are talking about and not pull some bs stats off google without having a clue what they mean. Opinions are like aholes and I wont deny one person their opinion but when those opinions start saying what kind of dog I can or can't own you guys can shove it.

PS: Obama sucks, MB's are so ef'n cool, direct drives suck, and the xstar wake is the crumble monster. Might as well toss every bs don't know *$&# thread all in one. Atleast everyone could talk out their ass in 1 central location.

brett33 06-06-2012 8:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)
my threats to society..

williamburell 06-06-2012 8:40 AM

dude thats a nice lil combo you have going there!

chevboy171 06-06-2012 4:13 PM

Pretty much agree with William. I think some people have a gross misconception about what pit bull owners are like and associate pit bulls with gangsters, thugs and dog fighters. Although pit bulls are often times owned by people who don't care for them or train them to be aggressive, I truly believe that most pit bulls are GREAT dogs and most pit bull owners are just as good as any other dog owner. Of all the people I know who have dogs, at least half have pit bulls, all of the people are good, considerate, middle class families and their pits are very sweet and not aggressive...coincidence? I think not! So my opinion is this; if you don't like pit bulls, don't get one, and keep your children away from them. If you have a pit bull, or ANY dog, take good care of it, LOVE IT, respect those people who do not like dogs by keeping your dog in your house/yard or on a leash when not at home. But no matter what, please don't hate a dog because of the way it looks, and if you try to pass a law saying I can't have a certain kind of dog, I, and A LOT of other people will put up a pretty big fight.

Here's my Killer!
http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/49...600x600Q85.jpg

bftskir 06-06-2012 9:45 PM

That dog just crushed the 3 day old's head like a melon. Nice.

mc_x15 06-07-2012 6:01 AM

3 Attachment(s)
This is Sirus, Hes my American Bulldog. 130 lbs. Hes the sweetest dog ever but still aorund children I am careful. People forget the strength of the bully breeds and their backround. They are agressive dogs but with a responsible owner, proper breeding, and proper training they can be some of the most loyal dogs you will ever come across. But they arent for everyone. My heart goes out the family in the article. Its a horrible occurance that happens all to often.

wakereviews 06-07-2012 7:10 AM

Great comments William. I certainly am not for banning those types of dogs, that is a bit extreme. A pit just wouldn't be for me.

trevorg7 06-07-2012 7:27 AM

4 Attachment(s)
First, the lead story is unfortunate and sad. Secondly, I agree with a lot of what William has said. I'll echo that bulls are high energy dogs and require a firm hand and training.

I'll add that dogs are not accessories; whether its a toy dog in your purse or a bull on a chain in your front yard. Dogs require care and attention. I've owned staffy bulls for almost 20 years and they all have been a integral part of our family.

We currently have two; Putter and Elsie Mae. Their mom was a rescue but was not put down because she was pregnant. We adopted two from the litter. You'll notice in the pics that while they rest, they almost always are connected. Funny trait, likely one from being inter-uteral together.

Great dogs.

T

jason_ssr 06-07-2012 7:52 AM

The only misunderstanding is on this issue is the idea that pits are "just a misunderstood breed" by those who love and personify them. I think we all understand quite clearly what they are and what they can do but the pit advocates are blind to it. They are not just a dog, a 12ft boa is not just a snake, and a lion is not just a cat. A 12' boa is all muscle and can choke you out with the slightest window of opportunity. A lion is a 400lb precision killing machine. A pit is an already aggressive breed that has been subject to generations of bad breeding, dog fighting, and many other abuses that have left these powerful animals in questionable mental health, and inheirited mental flaws.

Now I would never infringe on your right to own any of these three. However, if you are going to own them, you cant just treat them like a pet snake, a pet cat, or a pet dog. You have to respect what they are and not fall into the trap of projecting a belief that they are anything else. Most importantly, you cannot expose them to the public without the utmost respect and caution. There is a girl in my neighborhood who walks her families pit every afternoon. The kid is probably 90lbs, and the dog is prob 80lbs. Never had an issue, but I know good and well that if that dog wanted loose, that that kid couldnt stop it. If that dog ever turned on her, she would be helpless. Some of you would see a "good dog", while I see questionable ownership and parenting.

williamburell 06-07-2012 9:35 AM

Quote:

The only misunderstanding is on this issue is the idea that pits are "just a misunderstood breed" by those who love and personify them. I think we all understand quite clearly what they are and what they can do but the pit advocates are blind to it.
Meh I think thats alil dramatic. Most "pit advocates" are very aware of what damage a pit can inflict if not properly trained. I'm also fully aware of what a chow, lab, gsd, or any other breed can do. The irony is that part of the world thinks pit advocates are blind to the breed when we are the ones with the experience and pit advocates feel everyone else is blind by judging a breed without proper interaction with them. Its kind of like someone saying a boat sucks without ever seeing it.

Quote:

There is a girl in my neighborhood who walks her families pit every afternoon. The kid is probably 90lbs, and the dog is prob 80lbs
thats just plain out questionable dog ownership period. I won't even take my pits to the dog park. I have no fear of my dogs causing problems but the risk of another dog starting a confrontation would leave nothing but marks on the pit bull breed. The other dog could be cujo and all the media would see is a pit fight. Sad world we live in.

brettw 06-07-2012 12:46 PM

Even if another dog starts a fight, if your dog finishes it by killing the other dog, that's a problem. People want to always blame the owners, but it's a fact that any dog can snap. The problem with Pits is they often snap a bit too hard. I understand people with good Pits never having had a problem with them being upset at others wanting to ban them, but there have been too great a number of people and animals severely hurt or killed by Pits. I guess it's sort of a matter of your rights stop where mine begin and where to draw that line. Personally, I have kids and like going to dog beaches and such and walking my dogs around the neighborhood and just wouldn't want a dog that so many people are afraid of or that I have to be extra worried about. There are just too many other great breeds out there to choose from.

jason_ssr 06-07-2012 3:37 PM

Some pit owners do it right, like GRad mentioned above. That kind of preventative behavior is what is required for any dangerous animal. As long as everyone treats it with that kind of respect, all is well.

Many owners are much like you and him. However, the "advocate" is the one trying to prove that pits are a harmless breed with a bad rap and the stats are coincidental. They arent. The numbers play out because of their advanced destructive capability. All dogs can get angry, esp when provoked. Most will bite under the right circumstances, but I do not have to tell you the difference in power and shake a pit has compared to say a doberman (the mean dog from my childhood). It IS different and owners have to treat the situation differently than they would a collie.

hatepain 06-07-2012 3:49 PM

The owners obviously play a large role in how a Pit might react in certain situations. However, at the end of the day we are talking about a living thing that makes decisions, has emotions and makes decisions on those emotions. Thats why the gun or the pool analogy is only half way analogous. Those inanimate objects are capable of harming/killing someone yes but they aren't making an active decision to do so. I completely agree that education is the answer rather than erradiction because there are far to many owners that have a dangerous view of their animals safeness. Again, I'm sure the owners of the pit in the article had the same view "My dog is the most loving, caring animal that wouldn't hurt a sole. Its the bad owners that have dangerous animals."

williamburell 06-08-2012 6:00 AM

Quote:

The owners obviously play a large role in how a Pit might react in certain situations. However, at the end of the day we are talking about a living thing that makes decisions, has emotions and makes decisions on those emotions. Thats why the gun or the pool analogy is only half way analogous. Those inanimate objects are capable of harming/killing someone yes but they aren't making an active decision to do so.
Are you on crack? I'm usually nice but dear lord dude put down the sauce. I've read some stupid chit on the internet but that one is going in my book of fame. Dogs are dogs........not people. Dogs have traits. Some are protective, some are docile, some are hard headed, and some have prey drive. All of these traits are genetic. Can you have a dog that has been breed to be more violent........yep. Can the dog wake up pissy one morning b/c he didn't get a good morning kiss and decide to bite someone........no. Are these permanent traits or incapable of being breed out............no.

Please don't respond. I can accept opinions but thats just false. The difference in a gun and a fighting dog is it takes time to improperly raise an animal and 2 seconds to pull the trigger of a gun.

Lets look at the "facts"
*22 "pit bull" related deaths in 2011
26 people died from lightning strikes in 2011
450 die yearly in the US from falling out of bed
Humans killed 14,748 people in 2010 (murders)


I think we can tell where the attacks based on emotions are.

brett33 06-08-2012 6:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason_ssr (Post 1758259)
I do not have to tell you the difference in power and shake a pit has compared to say a doberman (the mean dog from my childhood).

My German Shepherd absolutely dominates my Pit and his bite force is less than hers.

psudy 06-08-2012 6:59 AM

"Lets look at the "facts"
*22 "pit bull" related deaths in 2011
26 people died from lightning strikes in 2011
450 die yearly in the US from falling out of bed
Humans killed 14,748 people in 2010 (murders)"


OH! If you look at it like that, its not so bad. 22 men, women and children is a small number in comparison. WHy would anyone want to think ill of a breed if it only kills 22 in a year?

williamburell 06-08-2012 7:17 AM

Quote:

OH! If you look at it like that, its not so bad. 22 men, women and children is a small number in comparison. WHy would anyone want to think ill of a breed if it only kills 22 in a year?
20x more people died falling out of bed and 410x more likely to be murdered by a person (and them be caught). I mean come on guys theres some common sense to be had here. I'd guess a very small percent of those deaths were full blooded pits. Again I have nothing to back that but then again they have absolutely nothing to back that they were pits either.

psudy 06-08-2012 7:21 AM

Falling out of bed is called an accident. A child being mauled to death by a dog is not.

I have heard some stupid arguements in my day, but may just take the cake.

williamburell 06-08-2012 7:37 AM

Quote:

Falling out of bed is called an accident. A child being mauled to death by a dog is not.

I have heard some stupid arguements in my day, but may just take the cake.
touche but I'm not comparing the 2 in how or why they occur. I'm saying freak things happen. That and I was generally amazed that 450 people died falling out of bed. Point being its really not hard for 20 people to be in a f'd up situation or be absolutely horrid owners. I'd also love to see notes on how many of these deaths were by "mixes", strays, feral dogs, etc

hatepain 06-08-2012 11:35 AM

I don't understand. Are you saying dogs don't make a decision? That its just a genetic trait as to why one might attack versus why one may not? If thats the case and it is genetic then how can you have one pit thats raised properly and doesn't attack and one that does? Also, how do you know which one you have? They react to a situation so a child walking on to their owners property. I'm on crack and the sauce so break it down for me.

humboldt9 06-08-2012 12:34 PM

From the OC Register today...

http://www.ocregister.com/news/dogs-...epartment.html

Tank222 06-08-2012 2:26 PM

"All three dogs began aggressively attacking the police vehicle," according to a statement released by the Newport Beach Police Department.

Really????

jerasu98 06-08-2012 4:25 PM

Dog have drives. Different drives are seen in different dogs. Drives can be enhanced or diminished but never created or taken out of a dog. Many dogs are bred for their drives. Shepherds and Belgian Malinois have a high trainability drive which makes them good for working dogs. A dog that chases animals or children has a high prey drive. A pit bull has specific drives in their dna. Some have a higher drive to attack then others. A dog owner can hopefully control these drives and some do a better job then others. That is why some attack and some are fine. As far as finding out which one you have you need to perform tests to see which drives and character traits the dog has. Law enforcement K9 schools have specific selection tests to see if the dogs have "what it takes".

seattle 06-09-2012 10:49 AM

"Which is why I will never trust my kid alone with any Pitbull. Every breed has bad dogs that snap. When a Pitbull snaps it destroys, and unless you have a gun, you're not stopping it. I have friends that have great, loving Pitbulls, but as a protective dad, I can't bring myself to trust them. "

"Training and upbringing is no substitute for instinct."

My thoughts exactly...

jetskiprosx 06-09-2012 12:10 PM

We all get that some pit bulls can be great dogs and that the owner is usually what makes them good or bad...but they are still a violent, aggressive, and strong breed. You can put other breeds with bad owners and those dogs aren't going to kill people, but you put pits with bad owners and people die. How many times have you heard about St. Bernards or Golden Retrievers eating babies?

bftskir 06-10-2012 2:40 PM

I like how the story almost always goes "My Pit never bit anyone or showed any aggression before it mauled the little girl to death"...

psudy 06-11-2012 7:39 AM

I have a 10 month old St. Bernard. He is 150lbs. He is a little protective, but not aggressive. Friday I had him out of the run while I was cleaning it and he sees a jogger go by. He takes off. I am in hot pursuit screaming at him. He runs up behind this girl(who had earphones in)and nips her on the ass. I thought I was going to die. I asked if she was ok(she was visibly shaken up) she said she didn't know. I asked if she wanted me to take a look, but that didn't go very far:) I honestly figured animal control would be at my house, but nothing happened. Needless to say I went a bought a shock collar.

steezyshots 06-11-2012 9:18 AM

It's always a bummer when something like this happens.

This i why as a responsible Pit owner I don't let my dogs around kids of any age. I don't care if their parents want them to be around my dogs, I just wont let that happen.

I am also pretty sure any dog could kill a 3 day old baby...

chevboy171 06-11-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

How many times have you heard about St. Bernards or Golden Retrievers eating babies?
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/20...outh-carolina/

trevorg7 06-12-2012 7:18 AM

Because I tend to be all about fact based discussion I asked the vet about dog bit fatality information and she turned me over to this site: www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com

Knowing it is important to determine who funds them to understand bias, I investigated. Had a hard time finding that out funding but their mission is: The National Canine Research Council is committed to preserving the human-canine bond. We publish, underwrite, and reprint accurate, documented, reliable research to promote a better understanding of our relationship with dogs.

We make grants to universities, independent research organizations and independent scholars. We also conduct our own research on contemporary issues that impact the human-canine bond, including the dynamics of popular attitudes toward dogs and canine aggression; public health reporting on dog bites; public policy concerning companion animals;and media reporting on dogs.

Bottom line they investigate, year over year for the past 20 years, dog bite related fatalities in extreme detail. I'd encourage you to read the most recent report for 2010 which is 50 pages long. http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil...port_Final.pdf

I'll quote a few things here; not to cut and paste but to shorten the read for some.

There were 33 dog bite-related fatalities in 2010.

33 fatalities occurred within a human population of more than 308 million and a canine population estimated at over 78 million. These rare tragedies remind us that all dog owners have an unequivocal responsibility for the humane care (including proper diet, veterinary care, socialization and training), custody (including licensing and micro-chipping), and control (physical or verbal) of their dogs.

Humane care, custody and control: The majority of these isolated tragedies – 21 out of 33 – involved resident dogs, not family pets.
Resident dogs are those isolated by the owner from regular, positive human interactions. Owners often keep resident dogs isolated on chains or in junk-yards, or allow their dogs to roam unattended. Owners of resident dogs often fail to provide basic humane care for their dogs, resulting in animals that suffer from malnutrition or chronic disease or illness. “Resident” dogs cannot be expected to exhibit the same behaviors and level of sociability as family dogs afforded the opportunity to learn appropriate behaviors through positive and humane interaction with people on a regular basis.

A Family Dog is one whose owners interact with the dog on a regular basis in positive and humane ways.
A Resident Dog is one whose owners isolate the dog from regular, positive human interactions.

Of the breads identified, totals are as follows:

Pits - 3 (2 resident dogs, 1 undetermined)
Rottweilers - 3 (all resident dogs)
Husky (family dog)
Mix (resident dog)
wolf (resident dog)
Boxer (resident dog)
German Sheppard (family dog)
3 dogs were never found
17 dogs were indeterminate after investigation, exam, etc.
2 others are address in the report but not attributable to dogs. (this should now add to 33)

They addressed the inaccurate and misleading information is regularly published about dog bite-related fatalities too. Noting of the 17 indeterminate fatalities, 12 were reported as Pits.

Interesting facts, enjoy the read.

Trevor

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil...port_Final.pdf
http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/about-us/

polarbill 06-12-2012 8:26 AM

So what I am getting out of all of this is that Pitts aren't necesarily bad dogs but the are definately a dangerous breed(More so then any other breed). As long as there is that understanding I don't think there would be a problem. Too bad too many owners think they have a great family pitt that would never hurt anybody. They just have too much destructive potential to feel that way though. At least as a responsible pet owner.

Personally I am not sure why anybody would want to own one. They are ugly. Also why would anybody want to own a scary looking dog that every person that looks at it thinks the same thing(damn that is a scary f'ing dog, I am not getting close to that thing).

The other thing that seems to be the problem is that 3/4 of the time I see a pitt it isn't fixed(at least the male one's I see). All these idiot pitt owners that don't fix their dog are morons. Fix your damn dog. Don't breed them. There are 10 times too many pitts as is. Look at petfinder or the local shelters. There are about as many pitts and pitt mixes as all other dogs combined.

trevorg7 06-12-2012 10:17 AM

@ Brett - I appreciate your opinion here. For me the biggest take away here is owner's are responsible for the care, well being, control and training of their animals. Dogs, by definition above, that are not family dogs have a high preponderance to aggressive behavior resulting in human death.

Pits and Rotts, based on the study, each had three attributable deaths. I think many consider these breads to be "dangerous". Interestingly none of these six were family dogs. Of those that were identifiable as family dogs, only the Husky and German Sheppard were attributed to a death.

It is unfortunate but I think many dogs are bought/adopted because of status and not to become part of a family: toy purse dogs (Paris Hilton phenomenon), pits (intimidation appearance) and even dalmatians (always a spike in dalmatian adoption after the 101 dalmatian movie is re-released).

T

jason_ssr 06-12-2012 11:36 AM

Fatalities are not a good measuring stick for dog attacks. Notice there is no info on dog attacks and there is even much written to discredit the reports of dog attacks.

Look, dogs are a part of the fabric of American life. Everyone here, whether they are owners or not, have been exposed to dogs enough to know what constitutes risk. All we ask is that the owners take whatever measures necessary to remove that risk from the public. Most trouble is when a pit owner is shocked by the animals change in behavior. IMO, this is not an excuse. So, who is a fault, the owner, or society for allowing themselves to be put at risk by a stupid owner?

trevorg7 06-12-2012 1:04 PM

@Jason - I think in this context, fatalities measures are extremely valid as it was the topic of the tread. Therefore the discussion surrounded itself around, albeit sad, fatalities. I agree with dogs being a woven into our fabric and believe owners are responsible. I believe the comment about pit owners being shocked could easily be boarded to all dog owners however.

T

jason_ssr 06-12-2012 1:30 PM

Well, the discussion went to public safety and the general destructive capability of the breed. I think the biggest problem is that since a pit is a dog, the owners treat it like Lassie.

Around here, we have a big cat problem. $350 can get you a lion cub and there are cub mills all over north TX. Lots of "cool people" buy them, then when they get too expensive to feed, they turn them loose in the wild. Once one is spotted, there becomes a big hunt to find it. They take this precaution becasue of the risk an animal like that has to the public regardless of past behavior of that particular animal. A pit presents its own risk, but because it comes with a cute stubby tail and floppy tongue, we tend to let our guard down.

A lion is just a cat like a pit is just a dog. Yes any cat can bite you, but you cannot deny that the size and strength of the lion makes the same aggressive behavior produce a very different outcome. The same is true for the pit. Yes, any dog can get aggressive, but the physique of the pit makes the outcome much different. Because of this fact, owners need to maintain the dogs as such.

hatepain 06-12-2012 6:15 PM

Kinda funny, as I was running today I passed a yard with two dogs (luckily fenced) that started violently barking at me. One was a pit and the other, well I don't know what it was because it didn't matter. I'm not afraid of dogs but I am of aggressively acting pits so I started to make mental plans if the pit were able to clear the fence or get through the gate, which I noted was shut and locked. I wasn't worried I'd get killed but rather attacked, maimed, etc. They're scary, dangerous animals. Why do Pit owners chose them over other breeds? There are loads of wonderful dogs to choose from. Why the Pit with all the negative press and connotations that follow them? Also I've always wondered if your ones home owners increases with them as pets?

chevboy171 06-13-2012 11:49 AM

Good discussion, as a pit owner, I appreciate reading the various opinions of how people think of and perceive the breed. I will say that drawing the analogy that a pit is to a dog as a lion is to a house cat is a bit of a stretch. Granted, I know very little about lions, but I do know that they are WILD animals where as pit bulls are domesticated and lions are 300+ pounds where as pits are rarely over 100. That said, I do agree that pits are stronger than most dogs and can inflict more damage than the typical dog.

As far as why I chose a pit bull over another breed...I dunno? Why does someone choose a Malibu over a Mastercraft? Why do some guys prefer brunettes and others prefer blondes? It's totally a matter of personal preference and I personally think they are great looking dogs. I never grew up with any preconceived notions about pit bulls being good or bad and actually couldn't have picked a pit bull out of a line up to save my life until a few years ago. When I started looking into getting a dog, I found myself just liking pits more, they didn't look "mean" to me because I'd never been exposed to any mean pits. I also like the fact that they are very athletic and I can enjoy most outdoor activities with them. My dog loves hiking, swimming, rock scrambling, trail blazing, etc, etc but will also be totally content laying around the house when I'm at home and she's never rambunctious. She fits my lifestyle perfectly.


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