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-   -   inboat speakers (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=793614)

skuhleman 05-29-2012 3:21 PM

inboat speakers
 
So looking to swap 3 pairs of my inboat speakers... the stocks are pretty much swapped out.

Which would be a better choice between these 4 and why?

Wetsounds XS-65 $160 per pair
Exile SX65M $180 per pair
Bullet 650coax $180 per pair
JL MX650-CCX $199 per pair

I think I am leaning towards the Bullets, I already have their tower speakers, and their inboats look the beefiest of them all, but have never heard them, nor do I know where I could.

murphy_smith 05-29-2012 3:32 PM

Shawn - go over to Earmark in Lewisville and listen to them all. They carry all the brands you are looking at.

hatepain 05-29-2012 3:34 PM

I too have Bullet tower speakers and really love their products and customer service so I don't think you can go wrong with them. That said I went with the Exiles and I put some in my folks and friends boat. Exile too has excellent service and products and I liked the full midbass driver with the suspended tweeter as well as their power handling.

bruizza 05-29-2012 6:55 PM

Not sure if this sways you at all but earmark has a package deal on the exiles for $460. So basically $153 a pair. We ran them last year and they sounded great.

ian_ashton 05-30-2012 6:08 AM

I absolutely love the Exiles as well. I switched from Polk and it was night and day. I have no personal experience with the other brands.

ReSession 05-30-2012 9:21 AM

If you want the chrome Bullet Speakers, get in line ;) I've been trying to order them since March...was told the new ones would be available in May, now they're saying July. I'm getting antsy and want to swap 3 sets of these crappy Sony XPlod's that came with my V226, and have 4 Bullet 770 HLCD's on my tower and had the 6.5 coax's in my old boat and loved them, so I wanted to match them up again...but I know me, I'm impatient and my brand loyalty diminishes when suppliers can't keep up with customer demand.

I'll bet some of you reading this will opt to go with another brand just because the speakers are in-stock! Heck, I may be one of them!

chattwake 05-30-2012 10:21 AM

I love my xs650's. You really ought to just find a shop that has everything you are considering and go listen to the speakers in person and compare them.

skuhleman 05-30-2012 10:57 AM

Yea I knew the bullets weren't in stock yet. I think I will wait till earmark gets them and then go demo all of them.

Chatt I'm sure you love the 650's, I just wasn't sure how the 65's stack up

That exile deal seems pretty good though lol.
These are going in a pontoon. And the bullet 7.7s are deck mounted on the back.

david_e_m 05-30-2012 11:28 AM

Just an FYI on the Bullet HollowPoints in-boat 6.5" coaxials. These are transitioning to a brand new speaker. That is the reason for the delay. At this point they are 30 days away which would be early July by the time they get into the hands of boat owners. Right now BHP is being careful not to over promise on the eta.
One expected change is a grill/bridge-mounted tweeter with a continuous uninterrupted midbass cone.
Other than that I wouldn't speculate. We are just looking forward to getting them in and testing them side by side with all the other players. That is the acid test.

David
Earmark Marine

ReSession 05-31-2012 8:55 AM

^^^ likely the reason I'll end up waiting it out til July...I had NO complaints on my last Bullets, I just want them now :)

ReSession 06-25-2012 1:06 PM

I've been patiently waiting for the new Bullet coax's to come in...and decided to call them today. I was told that they 'had been expecting the new coax's to be coming in around July, but now that's been pushed out and they have no ETA'

If you had to decide, would you go with the Wetsounds or the JL's (I have 4 Bullet 770's with the chrome grills/black cans)?

hatepain 06-25-2012 4:06 PM

After having installed some of the Exiles I would be going that route but they too are awaiting shippment until July 7thish. I was super impressed with them and feel that they have a very good price point on them.

david_e_m 06-25-2012 5:23 PM

Greg,
All lined up in the same display board, the Wetsounds XS650s and the JL Audio MX650s are the first two speakers selected nine out of ten times. They are different than one another but are the top two according to consumers who get the opportunity to compare side by side for themselves. So you are on the right path.

David
Earmark Marine

jmvotto 06-25-2012 6:05 PM

Plus one foe the exiles upgraded from polls in old boat and kicker in the new boat

delmage171 06-25-2012 7:00 PM

Has anyone ever installed XS-650s in a Super Sport Nautique or an older Super air nautique?

huddy 06-26-2012 8:06 AM

All I can say is exile!! All the way!! Peak of quality miles ahead in technology with unbeatable customer service!!!

wetsounds1 06-26-2012 8:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmage171 (Post 1762731)
Has anyone ever installed XS-650s in a Super Sport Nautique or an older Super air nautique?

Put a post up over on http://planetnautique.com/vb3/forumd...mp-Accessories

There are a ton of guys running the XS-650 and I am sure one of them has your year boat.

Tim
Wet Sounds

polarbill 06-26-2012 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_e_m (Post 1762703)
Greg,
All lined up in the same display board, the Wetsounds XS650s and the JL Audio MX650s are the first two speakers selected nine out of ten times. They are different than one another but are the top two according to consumers who get the opportunity to compare side by side for themselves. So you are on the right path.

David
Earmark Marine

David, what are your thoughts on M650s vs the XS-650s or the MX-650s

murphy_smith 06-26-2012 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huddy (Post 1762846)
All I can say is exile!! All the way!! Peak of quality miles ahead in technology with unbeatable customer service!!!

Wow - can you please explain this - I am truly interested to know what has been done to revolutionize the 6.5" speaker market that you are referring too!!!

huddy 06-26-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphy_smith (Post 1762880)
Wow - can you please explain this - I am truly interested to know what has been done to revolutionize the 6.5" speaker market that you are referring too!!!

tweeter to actually mold into the grill, which eliminates the mounting post (comming up through the midbass cone). This seals up the midbass cone

"quick release / rotational" clamping system that can direct sound a full 360 degrees

http://exilecaraudio.com/products/xm7/?tab=tech

http://youtu.be/Tb9Oa6KfLTM

http://youtu.be/rmmrdmqBh80

and i am board, i have already read all this but feel free. next time do your own research and you won't have such a sarcastic question

david_e_m 06-26-2012 10:55 AM

Brett,
To answer your question...
The Wetsounds XS-650s and 65s plus the JL Audio M and MX650s are all true marine speakers. All feature top quality construction.
No stamped steel frames. All polymer baskets. Will never rust.
No linen spiders. All synthetic that are impervious to moisture.
All crossover components are mounted so they are not dangling behind the speaker and tweeter wires penetrate the outer rim in such a way that they cannot be pinched against a hard gelcoat surface.
Magnets are encapsulated so they won't rust.
Coated tinsel leads so they won't rust.
Best and truest midbass of any marine 6.5" coaxials I have heard. Due to bridge/grill-mounted tweeters, both have continuous and uninterrupted midbass cones resulting in more midbass cone surface area. But it takes much more than just a solid dustcap.
Those are the similarities some of which are shared by only a few other brands. The upper end Kickers and Polk UMs are the other two that use true marinized construction throughout.
There are differences between the Wetsounds and the JL Audio coaxials in the sound. And, that is a highly subjective subject.
JL Audio subscribes to a coated soft dome tweeter with a lot of Euro influence like from Vifa, Seas, Audax, etc. Well damped. Lower resonance with very little resonant peak. Linearity is a top priority. Vocals are silky smooth. Image like crazy because there are no peaks or false emphysis for your ear to localize the sound source. These speakers benefit from JL Audio's Finite Element Analysis and some very advanced proprietary modeling and testing software and equipment. Most every part in these speakers is proprietary and engineered from the ground up to achieve an exact goal.
Wetsounds subscribes to a titanium tweeter. It is voiced a touch more aggressive which gives most music a little extra emphysis in the treble and upper harmonics resulting in a nice distinctive quality. But here is the thing. Wetsounds didn't overdue it like some speakers that sound like the designers have suffered severe hearing damage and are trying to compensate or maybe just want to jump out from the pack in the treble. Wetsounds have balance. Vocals are still revealed with body and breath and not just tongue, teeth, nasal cavity and throat. Dynamic range is top quality with Wetsounds so these speakers will really Rock and Roll when you pour on the power.
Based on what consumers are used to or what past exposure has influenced their opinion of what sounds best, they make their selection. These two products come out on top every time with rare exceptions. It is the difference when you get to hear all the name brand products side by side in a fair an equal setting.

David
Earmark Marine

polarbill 06-26-2012 11:04 AM

Thanks David. I am not sure I understand much of what you said other then the JL's and Wetsounds are truely built for marine use and both sound really good. I am sure the JL's are popular but you don't hear about them much on wakeworld. Maybe it is because they are pretty expensive? If I ever end up with another wakeboat I was thinking a great setup focusing on SQ in and around the boat(not projecting to the end of the rope) would be 2 pairs of M650s or m770s in the cockpit with some sort of amp running 150 watts to each, 2 pairs of M770s towers with an amp running 150 watts to each speaker and a JL 12W3 in sealed box at the drivers foot well with 500-750 watts. The new sinister 6 channel seems to be a single amp that could almost do that although it might be closer to 125 watts to each speaker and 500ish to the sub. That would be awesome to have a legit stereo with correct power running off a single. amp.

murphy_smith 06-26-2012 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huddy (Post 1762925)
tweeter to actually mold into the grill, which eliminates the mounting post (comming up through the midbass cone). This seals up the midbass cone

"quick release / rotational" clamping system that can direct sound a full 360 degrees

http://exilecaraudio.com/products/xm7/?tab=tech

http://youtu.be/Tb9Oa6KfLTM

http://youtu.be/rmmrdmqBh80

and i am board, i have already read all this but feel free. next time do your own research and you won't have such a sarcastic question

Do you really think that Exile developed the first tweeter mounted in the grill versus coming up through the mid bass cone? Have you ever seen an XS 650, or an RF M262 - mouting the tweeter in the position is nothing new.The reality is that the Exile speaker first did have a hole in the cone and then when they saw WS, Polk, RF and kicker mounting it to the tweeter - they inturn took this route

Also, the clamps were developed by Samson - but aren't we talking about in boat co-axial????

My question was sarcastic and your reponse proves that you should have just kept mouth shut b/c you have no clue what your talking about. Instead you decided to open your talking head and prove how little you know about the subject.

polarbill 06-26-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphy_smith (Post 1762936)
Do you really think that Exile developed the first tweeter mounted in the grill versus coming up through the mid bass cone? Have you ever seen an XS 650, or an RF M262 - mouting the tweeter in the position is nothing new.

Also, the clamps were developed by Samson - but aren't we talking about in boat co-axial????

My question was sarcastic and your reponse proves that you should have just kept mouth shut b/c you have no clue what your talking about. Instead you decided to open your talking head and prove how little you know about the subject.

Cmon Murphy, do your own research next time. hahahahaha.

Huddy, quit being a tool.

huddy 06-26-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphy_smith (Post 1762936)
Do you really think that Exile developed the first tweeter mounted in the grill versus coming up through the mid bass cone? Have you ever seen an XS 650, or an RF M262 - mouting the tweeter in the position is nothing new.

Also, the clamps were developed by Samson - but aren't we talking about in boat co-axial????

My question was sarcastic and your reponse proves that you should have just kept mouth shut b/c you have no clue what your talking about. Instead you decided to open your talking head and prove how little you know about the subject.

i am not going to make people read our pissing match this will be my last post. I thought forums were meant for education. so if i don't know what i am talking about then educate me. Sorry for opening my mouth in a FORUM. don't use some bigger in TX ass sarcasm and put down others opinions. Thats was the start of this thread what do i think. I stand by my opinion and I was talking about overall tech not just 6.5.

Enjoy everything you know...

murphy_smith 06-26-2012 11:30 AM

I just get sick and tried of the false claims and wild statements. And then when you try to put me on front street with totally incorrect information....well I just loose my marbles.

Every speaker has pros and cons and they all sound different. I don't care to give my opinion unless you personally seek it - but I will call out the bull**** 24/7

murphy_smith 06-26-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huddy (Post 1762940)
i am not going to make people read our pissing match this will be my last post. I thought forums were meant for education. so if i don't know what i am talking about then educate me. Sorry for opening my mouth in a FORUM. don't use some bigger in TX ass sarcasm and put down others opinions. Thats was the start of this thread what do i think. I stand by my opinion and I was talking about overall tech not just 6.5.

Enjoy everything you know...

Consider yourself educated on the topic of marine 6.5" speakers....

Looks like we accomplished something on the forum

polarbill 06-26-2012 11:41 AM

Looks like Huddy is from Bend Oregon which is right in Exile's back yard. Either he has something to do with the company(seems really out of character for Exile as Brian alwasy seems to be very proffessional) or he just slamming the koolaid by the pitcher and completely blind to anything else.

What he fails to realize is that one of his claims is a grill mounted tweeter is mainstay in this industry now. JL, Wetsounds, Exile, Polk, Kicker, etc.. all have options with this feature. The swivel speaker is cool and probably swivels easier then others but wasn't even developed by Exile. Samson did and has had speakers that done that for 5-10 years. Cool feature but not Exile's.

Also, David is a dealer for JL, wetsounds, Exile, Bullet, etc and he even says listening to all the speakers with the same power side by side 90% of the people pick JL or wetsounds. It might not be 100% truth but sounds like JL and wetsounds make the best sounding interior speakers.

david_e_m 06-26-2012 12:28 PM

Brett,
I will try to tell you what I hear from various speakers when asked in the most concise terms that I can. The descriptions may get a little technical as those of us immersed in something tend to get into our own world.
My opinion on what sounds good is secondary to the fact that we create an environment that allows each individual to make real comparisons in the most objective manner. If that consumer is personally satisfied with the selection then it doesn't matter who else agrees or disagrees.
Also, you have to realize that what takes place in the markets across the country is VERY different from the limited sample of the wake forums. Manufacturers can purposely work the forums and have a considerable influence in this comparatively small venue. But by no means does that translate to the larger number of consumers that have never frequented a wake or boating forum. In fact, there are at least a 1000 cars to 1 boat so many consumers would only be aware of those brands they have experienced in automotive. And some marine-specific brands do not have a total of 50 stocking and displaying dealers in the entire nation. So don't get too conditioned by the internet and in this case a very small market sample.
Here is what we do to ensure a fair and objective auditioning environment for in-boat speakers.
We have great program material available. Many of the best recordings in a variety of formats. We do not want a bad recording limiting the speakers.
We run all 6.5" speakers with a true 200 watts per channel. That is alot. But this means that you will not hear the amplifier limitations. Any limitation is strictly the speaker. Although we do not use all that power every speaker gets the benefit of a totally clean and unclipped signal.
Each speaker is in an isolated chamber that is large enough to constitute infinite baffle for the 6.5" size.
The room has mostly non-reflective surfaces and non-coincidental angles. This cuts down on comb filter effects and standing waves.
The room is arranged in an identical manner rather than a mirror image manner so that each speaker is the same distance from its paired counterpart and the same distance from the listener. Advantages and disadvantages are nullified for specific speakers relating to each other and the room modes.
If the environment impacts a certain speaker then you can be sure that all speakers are impacted in the identical fashion.

David
Earmark Marine

mikeski 06-26-2012 2:29 PM

I have a set of Kicker KM-6200's on my shelf yet to be tried (didn't fit in my slalom boat as planned). From a price point standpoint they are a great deal for a marine speaker with a bridged tweeter design. I would be curious how Earmark's customers would rate them versus the others on that sound board.

Truekaotik 06-26-2012 6:44 PM

JL's 6.5's are smooth and true across the board.. Wetsounds definitly have more treble emphasis but sound good... Those are my top choices as well...

brianinpdx 06-26-2012 11:46 PM

We can debate brand xyz versus zyx until the cows come home. For all you guys that chimed in about Exile's in cabins and your experiences, we at Exile appreciate it. We are just one brand of many out there trying to make great sounding gear..

The date of 7/8 of in stock on the Exile cabins is accurate as the container is due to arrive the week prior.

re: the Exile clamp. It was designed by this company:

http://www.x3development.com/about.php

This site hasn't been updated in several years as many of the companies that we work with have asked us to remain covert... It's been fun to see that company evolve as X3 no longer does just audio products for clients. We are hired guns in that capacity..

Since its going to come up, X3 is the parent parent company of Exile Audio. Samson approached X3 to better their patent in terms of functionality and practicality. What you see on the market today is far better than anything in the past that they have had access to. What began as a typical product design project evolved into a product partnership. Thats the 411.

-Brian
X3 Development
Exile Audio

you_da_man 06-27-2012 7:35 AM

I was at Earmark Marine a few months ago doing my 3rd stereo upgrade. I have the Bullet HP 650 in-boat speakers and I'm very pleased with the sound. Even if people did not have a sub in their boat these speakers do sound great. I just wanted to mention that David took me into a sound room and let me listen to the JL in-boat speakers to various types of music and the JL's have a very clean, warm sound (not overly bright on the highend as some boat speakers). There was also a Yamaha 230 in their shop that had these installed and I climbed in and listened and was very impressed with how they sound (although mounting positions vary by boat). I don't think you be going wrong with Wetsounds or JL but thought I'd share what I liked about the JL. This is just my opinion but Earmark is a unique marine audio shop that carries all the major players in the the audio game AND also has the ability to allow customers to walk in and listen to them all. I don't think most marine audio shops are set up like Earmark to compare Wetsounds, JL, Bullet, Polk, or Exile. I think that most first time boat owners, especially wakeboat owners, just gravitate to what their friends have or what most are using and that maybe why JL is not as well known as Wetsounds or as Exile is gaining popularity.

brett564 06-27-2012 11:00 PM

David from Earmark is a voice of expertise in the fog of BS, but I couldn't agree more that with AJ West's last sentence ^^^

Get true Marine speakers and you'll be fine. Once you determine you're getting Exiles, JL, Polk MMs, or Wetsounds then you are over 95% percent there to an awesome speaker setup. I put a whole new array of Wetsounds XS-65 in my boat and they sound great! I went with Wetsounds because I had a good deal (price) at the time and that was that. No regrets and I love them. JUST STAY AWAY FROM ROCKFORD FOSGATES :( !!!!!

murphy_smith 06-28-2012 6:00 AM

Bu Coo - in an effort to be informative, only the JL, Polk and WS make a true marine speaker.

Also, the newer RF's are a solid speaker and that is what came in my boat. They are not as good as the JL's or WS but not poor enough that you need to going out and replacing them immediately.

Sounds like you may have has some issues with the RF's - what model and what happened.

bendow 06-29-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphy_smith (Post 1762943)
I just get sick and tried of the false claims and wild statements.

I do too! It's so annoying....

Quote:

Originally Posted by murphy_smith (Post 1763481)
Bu Coo - in an effort to be informative, only the JL, Polk and WS make a true marine speaker.

Informative eh? You must have a vast knowledge of the audio industry to know that JL, Polk, and WS are the "only" "true marine speaker" available on the market. I guess the Bravox Audio M6-OD isn't a true marine speaker? It's the same speaker as the WS-XS650...so if JL, Polk, and WS are the only true marine speakers, then what about the M6-OD eliminates it from the only true marine speaker group? Is it the color? What about CDT Braxials? They don't have the post/pole tweeter...would this make them a candidate for the true marine speaker group?

Can you explain what exactly a true marine speaker is? Is there some sort of IEEE standard detailing what dictates a "true marine speaker" that I'm unaware of?

If I were Exile, I'd change my speaker design to the grill mount tweeter too if everytime I turned around you have forum members, vendors, and company owners steering naive information seekers away from speakers with erroneous claims that they're not "true marine speakers."

I have heard (in person) every speaker mentioned in this thread. I personally think the Polk MM's have the best SQ, but they didn't have the highs to keep up with my bass setup, nor did the XS650/M6-OD....and let's face it...SQ and boat are mutually exclusive. The Exile's did have the highs I was looking for and were well within my price range. Do I think they're better than any other speaker mentioned in this thread?...NO. Did they integrate well into my application...YES. In the past 3 seasons of being splashed and having beer/drinks spilt all over them have I had any of the 8 of my non "true marine" speakers fail...NO. Any info seekers reading this who aren't familiar with audio, don't buy into all this true marine speaker marketing strategy crap. There's a ton of great marine speakers out there, you really can't go wrong with any of the reputable brands.


Quote:

Originally Posted by brett564 (Post 1763456)
David from Earmark is a voice of expertise in the fog of BS

What? Are you kidding? He's the voice of salesman who is on every boating forum promoting JL and WS. I've never seen him recommend anything other than JL or WS. JL and WS are both great and he may actually prefer their products over others, but has anyone ever thought to consider what he does for a living? He's in a business, and nearly every post is a sales pitch. Do you guys really think that vendors don't develop a relationship with product owners over time? If you became friends with a business partner, and a new guy shows up to the door step who are you going to pledge allegiance to, your friend or their competitor? If he's hear to support the community then why would he suggest that a member pay him to design a subwoofer box? I'd help someone out with a subwoofer box for no cost, but you know what the difference between him and I is? He's in a business and here to make money....I'm not. One of the reasons people come to WW is to learn about audio products they intend to purchase, Earmark capatilizes on that. If I would have went through Earmark for my stereo it would have been 1/4 of what I wanted for twice the price I paid. As for his mock up at the store and the 90% comment, what do you think most unknowing buyers will do when you have the salesman telling you that JL and WS are the best and the others aren't "true marine." Also, I'm not suggesting anything, but I could make a Pyle Speaker sound better than a BG speaker.

If you guys are doing product research, think about the capacity of the people who are giving you their opinions. If they have a vested interest, take it with a grain of salt. "Worlds first", "patended this", true marine is all marketing BS.

murphy_smith 06-29-2012 8:01 PM

Ben,

I don't have much time to post tonight but there are certainly many things that make differentiate a marine speaker from a car audio speaker. The differences are found in a composite basket vs stamped steel, glued cones versus theraform cones, covered magnets versus non covered magnets, corrosion protected tinsel leads versus non protected....I could certainly name a couple more if you need more examples.

Exile is a stamped steel basket with a glued cone, unprotected magnet and unprotected tinsel leads....it is no different that a car audio speaker off the shelf.

I'd be happy to take pictures of both a JL or WS and compare and show these differences to an exile speaker. Just let me know if you'd like me to do so

Also, the only reason that I reference JL, WS and Polk is b/c that was the direction the thread was going.

Like I said...I'd be happy to post pictures of how a marine speaker differs from a car audio speaker....it's up to you.

jtech 06-29-2012 10:12 PM

No need to post the pics of each brand, they can be had on each of their websites.

I think it's funny that people get so excited over marine this and marine that. Can someone explain to me what I gain from a marine speaker in my boat that sits on a lake and never sees salt water?What percentage of tourney boats see a roller big enough to swamp a boat or live in salt water? Do they sound better with all that marine stuff added to them? Are they able to handle more power from an amp with all that added? If adding all that marine stuff to a speaker makes it sound better and take more power then I need an upgrade.

brett564 06-30-2012 12:56 AM

That went downhill quick!

Murphy, maybe my mistake or not that I put Exiles in there. Oh well. But to answer your question, my Rockford Fosgates sounded amazing the first year on a brand new boat. And then.... :)

After a couple of years the silver speakers inside the boat and on the tower turned yellow. At around the third year they sound was obviously lacking (And I am the opposite of a stereo snob), and at 4 years old, the speaker sound and appearance was just too embarrassing to ignore any further. I had to replace them and after doing a s--t ton of research, and not having money to burn, I went with the Wetsounds XS-65, over a very close 2nd place Polk MM651UM. Who knows, these may last just as long and turn yellow too. I'll update in a few years!!!

My personal experience may easily be an out of normal range disqualifier on the bell curve, but it is what it is.

brett564 06-30-2012 1:03 AM

Jason, its all about durability. The elements, the fog, the rain, the water splash, the sun, the volume, all of these take their tolls on any electronics.

You sound like you are happy with your speakers, but I would stay open minded that they will go bad sooner or later and when they do go with a Marine speaker with the hopes it will last longer and save you money. Cheers!

brett564 06-30-2012 1:13 AM

And Benjamin, I don't know what to say to that. Wow, for the years I've been a member of WW and the years before that reading it, I have never heard anyone so disapproving of David at EM. This isn't personal as I don't know him and have never visited his business. I'm sure he is a professional who takes the time to give his input that may help his personal interests, but I have never heard anyone be disappointed with his opinions or suggestions. And over the years I have heard several brands and models he has endorsed over and over. Of those brands I have known several friends and others who have had those brands and models, and have backed up his opinion in their real world experiences.

That's all.

ReSession 06-30-2012 4:19 AM

This thread went wonky! For the record, I ordered 3 sets of the Wetsounds - they'll be here Monday and promptly installed!

david_e_m 06-30-2012 7:45 AM

When a person is threatened or angered in some way by an alternate opinion which they can't find a logical or substaniative arguement for, they often attack that source on a personal basis. The personal assault tells you everything you need to know about the person doing the attacking. It's transparent and should be ignored.

david_e_m 06-30-2012 8:13 AM

So back to speakers...

Sure you can put a speaker of automotive construction in a fresh water boat. They definitely won't last in a salt water or brackish environment but it's done all the time on inland lakes.

A brand touting their speakers as 'marine' shipped their first model with anodized screws. They obviously saw no issue with this. But the screws quickly rusted. A marine speaker must have stainless steel hardware. In the same way a stamped steel basket can eventually rust, especially when mounted directly on gelcoat. Nobody wants rust stains below their speakers.

Imagine a standard cotton or linen automotive-type spider versus a synthetic one engineered specifically for marine. A spider (mechanical suspension) is the main restoring force that returns the speaker cone to a neutral position after movement. Once the spider becomes soggy from higher moisture content and fatiqued, and it may take a couple of seasons, you will have a fundamentally undamped speaker. The spider is also the main component for keeping the parts aligned. It's not doing its job when it is warped from water damage. Maybe some might not hear the difference but I have heard the effect.

There are countless other design and construction differences that make a true marine speaker, a few of which have been mentioned above. You can minimize the differences if you chose. You can tolerate a less expensive automotive type speaker used in marine applications as we have all done it and will continue to do so when budget dictates. But, a true marinized speaker is considerably more expensive to build and has much greater worth. No one says you have to make the extra investment. Just don't say there's no extra value for those that want a better product.

David
Earmark Marine

Houstonshark 06-30-2012 8:35 AM

Just as a FYI, I installed a pair of Wet Sounds 808's earlier this week in a friend's pontoon boat and they sounded amazing! The bass (not midbass, but bass) was really impressive.

Going purely off of memory, I think the 808's had more and better sounding bass than my Rev10's. At a minimum, I think they were as good. Anyone who has room for a speaker this large and is looking for an upgrade should give them a listen.

you_da_man 06-30-2012 8:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_e_m (Post 1763990)
So back to speakers...

Sure you can put a speaker of automotive construction in a fresh water boat. They definitely won't last in a salt water or brackish environment but it's done all the time on inland lakes.

A brand touting their speakers as 'marine' shipped their first model with anodized screws. They obviously saw no issue with this. But the screws quickly rusted. A marine speaker must have stainless steel hardware. In the same way a stamped steel basket can eventually rust, especially when mounted directly on gelcoat. Nobody wants rust stains below their speakers.

Imagine a standard cotton or linen automotive-type spider versus a synthetic one engineered specifically for marine. A spider (mechanical suspension) is the main restoring force that returns the speaker cone to a neutral position after movement. Once the spider becomes soggy from higher moisture content and fatiqued, and it may take a couple of seasons, you will have a fundamentally undamped speaker. The spider is also the main component for keeping the parts aligned. It's not doing its job when it is warped from water damage. Maybe some might not hear the difference but I have heard the effect.

There are countless other design and construction differences that make a true marine speaker, a few of which have been mentioned above. You can minimize the differences if you chose. You can tolerate a less expensive automotive type speaker used in marine applications as we have all done it and will continue to do so when budget dictates. But, a true marinized speaker is considerably more expensive to build and has much greater worth. No one says you have to make the extra investment. Just don't say there's no extra value for those that want a better product.

David
Earmark Marine

Nice explanation between marine and non-marine construction. Makes sense.

hatepain 06-30-2012 12:22 PM

David is going to of course push what he sells in the same way I'm going to push Ford trucks. I wouldn't expect anything else from any sales person. If David (or any dealer) doesn't carry Exile they're not going to espouse how great they are. There is going to be some bias there no matter how hard a person tries to be nuetral. In the same way we are going to bias the products we put in our boats, our brand of boats, etc. Its human nature.

Tjay 06-30-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houstonshark (Post 1763991)
Just as a FYI, I installed a pair of Wet Sounds 808's earlier this week in a friend's pontoon boat and they sounded amazing! The bass (not midbass, but bass) was really impressive.

Going purely off of memory, I think the 808's had more and better sounding bass than my Rev10's. At a minimum, I think they were as good. Anyone who has room for a speaker this large and is looking for an upgrade should give them a listen.

What kind of power where you running to 808's? How do the 808's sound in comparison to jl 7.7's or bullet 7.7 coaxials? Wetsounds doesnt even have the 808's listed on website? Was waiting for Jaime to get in his shipment for the bullets but I am running out of patients...

882001 07-01-2012 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_e_m (Post 1763990)
So back to speakers...

Sure you can put a speaker of automotive construction in a fresh water boat. They definitely won't last in a salt water or brackish environment but it's done all the time on inland lakes.

A brand touting their speakers as 'marine' shipped their first model with anodized screws. They obviously saw no issue with this. But the screws quickly rusted. A marine speaker must have stainless steel hardware. In the same way a stamped steel basket can eventually rust, especially when mounted directly on gelcoat. Nobody wants rust stains below their speakers.

Imagine a standard cotton or linen automotive-type spider versus a synthetic one engineered specifically for marine. A spider (mechanical suspension) is the main restoring force that returns the speaker cone to a neutral position after movement. Once the spider becomes soggy from higher moisture content and fatiqued, and it may take a couple of seasons, you will have a fundamentally undamped speaker. The spider is also the main component for keeping the parts aligned. It's not doing its job when it is warped from water damage. Maybe some might not hear the difference but I have heard the effect.

There are countless other design and construction differences that make a true marine speaker, a few of which have been mentioned above. You can minimize the differences if you chose. You can tolerate a less expensive automotive type speaker used in marine applications as we have all done it and will continue to do so when budget dictates. But, a true marinized speaker is considerably more expensive to build and has much greater worth. No one says you have to make the extra investment. Just don't say there's no extra value for those that want a better product.

David
Earmark Marine

while i agree, i have had automotive speakers in my saltwater boat for 10 years with no ill affect. my boat only gets wet inside maybe once a year, if that. . i could see the marine speakers come in handy if you just tie it up and never cover it, on a fishing boat, or your the drag the hose in the boat and hose everything guy. actually every boat i ride in regularly has automotive speakers and cant think of one failure.

jtech 07-01-2012 9:03 PM

Thanks to all for the input on true marine vs. car.. I knew the difference was construction (pretty hard not to see that) but wanted to make sure that people were not mislead in to thinking that true marine speakers were better in terms of sound quality and power handling due to the "marine" nature of the components that make them. I see the value in off shore applications and ones where more extreme conditions require them. I don't see that same need for my 3-4 month season on a lake.

Truekaotik 07-02-2012 11:11 AM

I agree with certain things said by Ben... If your not on this site to make money and help the crew out, there is NO reason to boast your business on this site and sign it everytime with some higher validation than any other member posting on this site... All manufacturers or vendors shouldn't be able to bash someone else's product to put there preference ontop. Manufacturers should only be able to help on their own product produced and give no feedback or personal opinion on other manufacturers. Vendors ( dealers) should not be able to post period under a business name. Cause Let's face it, they wouldn't be here unless at some point they are making a profit off these sites to grow there business from the expense of there knowledge and time. It also makes people (non- audio/boat gurus ) take there word over a crew members post just because they own a business, when lets face it, audio is subjected to the listener and there are several ways things can be done or explained . Just food for thought on this situation... BTW I'm no one here, just a boat owner and that's my personal thinking on this crazy situation... If its no big deal and I'm wrong, there should be NO reason they can't post and have a good time with the members here under a normal non business affiliated name ;)

murphy_smith 07-02-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truekaotik (Post 1764339)
I agree with certain things said by Ben... If your not on this site to make money and help the crew out, there is NO reason to boast your business on this site and sign it everytime with some higher validation than any other member posting on this site... All manufacturers or vendors shouldn't be able to bash someone else's product to put there preference ontop. Manufacturers should only be able to help on their own product produced and give no feedback or personal opinion on other manufacturers. Vendors ( dealers) should not be able to post period under a business name. Cause Let's face it, they wouldn't be here unless at some point they are making a profit off these sites to grow there business from the expense of there knowledge and time. It also makes people (non- audio/boat gurus ) take there word over a crew members post just because they own a business, when lets face it, audio is subjected to the listener and there are several ways things can be done or explained . Just food for thought on this situation... BTW I'm no one here, just a boat owner and that's my personal thinking on this crazy situation... If its no big deal and I'm wrong, there should be NO reason they can't post and have a good time with the members here under a normal non business affiliated name ;)

Over on the centurion crew - you are a vendor?

Are you not?

Truekaotik 07-02-2012 12:00 PM

Nope I am not a publishing vendor type... I didn't say I did not own a business.. But NO ONE knows what business it is, unless they have been directed to me from websites as a LOCAL business, and they are told not to post my business on a forum after purchase... So in turn, yes, I practice what I preach.... :)
Why? Are you a centurion crew member? I ask because you should know then ;) I'm just here to help, good or bad... It is a forum for boat owners, which I have...

wakeworld 07-02-2012 1:09 PM

Quote:

If your not on this site to make money and help the crew out, there is NO reason to boast your business on this site and sign it everytime with some higher validation than any other member posting on this site.
I couldn't disagree more. Some of the most valuable information provided on these forums is from vendors that are here to build goodwill for their company by helping other members with their questions. Yes, building goodwill has the ulterior motive of increasing sales for that company, but when it is done properly it also has a very valuable byproduct, which is a lot of good knowledge disseminated to discussion board members. Identifying your affiliation with a business is not "boasting," rather it's the responsible thing to do so that the reader knows how to digest the information you provide. Those that aren't up front with their affiliations are the ones that need to be feared.

I encourage vendors, dealers, manufacturers, etc. to identify themselves as such when they are posting. In fact, there is an "Industry Affiliation" field in each user's profile provided specifically for this purpose. That way, when these people are giving their advice and answering their questions, it can be taken with a grain of salt because the reader will be fully informed of the source. In my opinion, the worst case scenario would be to have someone posting on here behind a hidden ulterior motive, so that the readers of their posts cannot take it with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that whether or not your are affiliated with a company, your reputation is built upon your history of posts and most of the people that have been around here for a bit know which posters to trust and which posters are blowing smoke up their butts.

On a side note, I have to say that I'm getting really tired of the drama in the audio section with people loyal to one brand or dealer posting snide remarks about the competition and vice versa. It's juvenile, transparent, lame and a waste of my time. I've decided to just start booting people that are a bigger pain in my ass than I have time to deal with. Call me a forum Nazi if you want, but I don't have to time to deal with adults that get butt hurt because they don't agree with someone else's opinion or they don't like the way they conduct themselves on the forums. Posting here is a privilege, so if you want to continue to enjoy that privilege, show some respect to other forum members.

chattwake 07-02-2012 1:48 PM

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Truekaotik 07-02-2012 2:26 PM

Well I have nothing to worry about then :) I now know who the key players are in this forum. I havnt bashed anyone in the "audio section" of this forum. I have posted like 4 times in your forum trying to help and about other things boat related, in "boats, accessories and tow vehicles:" ).. I am not the one putting others suggestions down in my posts and havnt argued with anyone here?? Is there a audio section here? I didn't realize that, thanks :) guess my name precedes me by "butt-hurt" people here and you were informed by someone that dislikes my opinion? ...that was a harsh attack at me I think over agreeing with a comment I didn't initiate to begin with... I was just agreeing with another forum member, that's all. It was a generalized comment of all manufacturers and dealers.. It shouldn't matter who I am and I havnt been here long enough to even make a reputation for myself til now.... Figured that was respecting other members? I wasnt butt hurt over anything, just posted my opinion which is what I thought forums were for. People can read and agree or disagree? but like I've seen many here do with no repercussion, it was a direct attack at my comment?.. But that's ok? My bad :( why the hostility towards me of the several post on here? I own a boat, this forum is for that I thought? I don't need to post my credentials to post on any other forum, I did not know this forum was different, my bad... I also did not post any snide remarks or am one brand specific so that kinda lost me when you were directly replying to my post and yelling at me for it? So i take it if we dont Own a shop or boat business, our word is nothing to anyone here? Thats sure how you make it sound with this comment:
" I encourage vendors, dealers, manufacturers, etc. to identify themselves as such when they are posting. In fact, there is an "Industry Affiliation" field in each user's profile provided specifically for this purpose. That way, when these people are giving their advice and answering their questions, it can be taken with a grain of salt because the reader will be fully informed of the source. In my opinion, the worst case scenario would be to have someone posting on here behind a hidden ulterior motive, so that the readers of their posts cannot take it with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that whether or not your are affiliated with a company, your reputation is built upon your history of posts and most of the people that have been around here for a bit know which posters to trust and which posters are blowing smoke up their butts."
Couldn't we of just PM'd this or was it your intention to call me out for all to see and make some people here smile? Sorry I upset you with a vague post agreeing with another member and my opinion wake world... I promise this won't happen again... Sorry also to Shawn, the original poster of this thread...
I still think of all the brand listed, the JL m- series inboats are the BEST inboats of the product listed by Shawn...
Ps. I am not mad or butt hurt in anyway but can't believe I was yelled at this way by the owner of this forum for expressing my opinion on another members comment... I really am just in shock.. Sorry for ruining your day...

polarbill 07-02-2012 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truekaotik (Post 1764397)
Well I have nothing to worry about then :) I now know who the key players are in this forum. I havnt bashed anyone in the "audio section" of this forum. I have posted like 4 times in your forum trying to help and about other things boat related, in "boats, accessories and tow vehicles:" ).. I am not the one putting others suggestions down in my posts and havnt argued with anyone here?? Is there a audio section here? I didn't realize that, thanks :) guess my name precedes me by "butt-hurt" people here and you were informed by someone that dislikes my opinion? ...that was a harsh attack at me I think over agreeing with a comment I didn't initiate to begin with... I was just agreeing with another forum member, that's all. It was a generalized comment of all manufacturers and dealers.. It shouldn't matter who I am and I havnt been here long enough to even make a reputation for myself til now.... Figured that was respecting other members? I wasnt butt hurt over anything, just posted my opinion which is what I thought forums were for. People can read and agree or disagree? but like I've seen many here do with no repercussion, it was a direct attack at my comment?.. But that's ok? My bad :( why the hostility towards me of the several post on here? I own a boat, this forum is for that I thought? I don't need to post my credentials to post on any other forum, I did not know this forum was different, my bad... I also did not post any snide remarks or am one brand specific so that kinda lost me when you were directly replying to my post and yelling at me for it? So i take it if we dont Own a shop or boat business, our word is nothing to anyone here? Thats sure how you make it sound with this comment:
" I encourage vendors, dealers, manufacturers, etc. to identify themselves as such when they are posting. In fact, there is an "Industry Affiliation" field in each user's profile provided specifically for this purpose. That way, when these people are giving their advice and answering their questions, it can be taken with a grain of salt because the reader will be fully informed of the source. In my opinion, the worst case scenario would be to have someone posting on here behind a hidden ulterior motive, so that the readers of their posts cannot take it with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that whether or not your are affiliated with a company, your reputation is built upon your history of posts and most of the people that have been around here for a bit know which posters to trust and which posters are blowing smoke up their butts."
Couldn't we of just PM'd this or was it your intention to call me out for all to see and make some people here smile? Sorry I upset you with a vague post agreeing with another member and my opinion wake world... I promise this won't happen again... Sorry also to Shawn, the original poster of this thread...
I still think of all the brand listed, the JL m- series inboats are the BEST inboats of the product listed by Shawn...
Ps. I am not mad or butt hurt in anyway but can't believe I was yelled at this way by the owner of this forum for expressing my opinion on another members comment... I really am just in shock.. Sorry for ruining your day...

I think you are taking David post way to personal. I think most of it was just his general thoughts from what he/we have seen over the years. Mayeb I am wrong though?

Truekaotik 07-02-2012 2:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbill (Post 1764398)
I think you are taking David post way to personal. I think most of it was just his general thoughts from what he/we have seen over the years. Mayeb I am wrong though?

Thank you and I hope? I just got on this forum, I disagree with what he said in his reply but that's life. .. I won't loose sleep over it or get mad, it was a personal opinion of mine... I just thought it was directed at me from the reply of my post and was shocked... That's all... My bad.. Well now I can say I'm famous here Now :) hehe sorry had to joke....

wakeworld 07-02-2012 2:59 PM

Truekaotik, the first three paragraphs of my post were directed toward your comments. I simply disagree with your take. No biggie. The last paragraph was not directed at you, rather other people that have posted in this thread and on other audio threads. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Truekaotik 07-02-2012 8:03 PM

Now it is... All good. :)


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