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-   -   Ballasts: Rule or Tsunami? Complete kit or DIY kit? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792609)

espritv8 04-05-2012 4:50 PM

Ballasts: Rule or Tsunami? Complete kit or DIY kit?
 
Hi,

I'm looking to install an integrated ballast system on my centurion. Two 750 sacks in each locker in the back.

I will go with aerator pumps for the price and GPH ratings, but which one is better: Rule 1100 or Tsunami 1200?

I'm looking to purchase a kit on wakemakers.com, but each kit for each location (i need two) is 335+shipping+tax (I live in Canada!) :banghead:

I'm just wondering if i get my stuff (checkvalves, hoses, etc) at local shops, would it be cheaper? What would you do?

Thanks !

chpthril 04-05-2012 6:06 PM

The Rule 1100 is actually faster then the T1200 when tested in a real-world setup.

It is possible to source the individual parts cheaper, but it takes a lot of time searching different vendors.

Jeff 04-05-2012 9:06 PM

I ended up going with the Tsunami 800s since I was already way over budget with my ballast system. Between the pumps, the hose and the fittings it was an extra $250 or so IIRC.

Anyway I'd probably get the Rule 1,100s if I was doing it again. The performance is about the same or potentially a slight amount better than the Tsunami 1,200 accept it's a lot cheaper and easier to plumb for the Rules since they have 3/4" NPT on the intake side and 1" on the output side. The Tsunamis have a proprietary 1 1/8" straight thread on the intake side which you will have to buy adapters to connect up with your intake thru hulls or your manifold. Also, the output barbed fitting is 1 1/8" which you can cram 1" hose on but it makes it a lot more difficult to get it on there.

Jeff 04-05-2012 9:15 PM

Don't you have a Centurion? Does it have a bit of a V hull? When I put aerator pumps in my MC MariStar 230 I knew that I had to be careful about mounting orientation but I didn't realize just how sensitive they were. I ask about the V hull because that came into play when I had some priming issues. My pumps were oriented "vertically" which is supposed to be ok but since my hull is a slight V the pump on one side kept failing to prime. It was due to that slight downhill slope. On the starboard side it worked in the pump's favor but on the port where the output of the pump ended up pointing a couple of degrees downward it wouldn't prime despite being completely below the water line. Air was ending up in that pump cartridge and it couldn't push it downhill. I'd pull the hose off of the bag and suck it and wouldn't have any other issues filling until the next time I'd trailer the boat and let air back in there. I ended up putting a 90 on there so that I could turn the pump 180 degrees and haven't had any problems since.

Anyway, just make sure if you're connecting your pumps directly to thru hulls that you orient them all with the outputs either perfectly level or with an uphill tilt.

Jeff 04-05-2012 9:28 PM

One more thing: It was a bit cheaper to order all of the appropriate stuff from wakemakers for 3 bags instead of buying the "kits". I think I plumbed 3 bags for less than $600-700 with almost everything from wakemakers. You also won't need 30 ft of hose for each v-drive bag like they include in each kit so there's some savings there. You probably won't even need 30' between the two rear bags.

On the switches the ones they offered didn't match the oem switches in my boat so I opted to order those from another source. Mine were another variant of Carlingtech switch which I found from another source for like $5 each.

I would use check valves over the vented loops for the rear bags. The check valves are cheaper, will prevent siphoning out through the intake and will be easier to work with since you just throw them anywhere in line (preferably close to the pump). The vented loops are only really necessary for bags below the water line (i.e. a ski locker sac).

espritv8 04-05-2012 10:41 PM

Thanks for all the info Jeff!! After reading your posts, I'm about to order these parts. For two locations I'm saving about 150$ after following your advice.

Rule Tournament 1100 GPH Aerator Ballast Pump 405FC

Premium Ballast Hose - Clear/Black
Size
1"

Bronze Ball Valve
Size
3/4"

Bronze Mushroom Thru-Hull Intake
Size
3/4"

Inline Check Valve Fitting
Size
1"

90 Degree Thru Hull Fitting - Composite/Stainless
Size
1"

Ballast Rocker Switch

Premium Ballast Hose - Clear/Black
Size
3/4"

90 Degree Thru Hull Fitting - Composite/Stainless
Size
3/4"

Fly High 3/4" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W736
Fly High 3/4" Elbow Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W742
Fly High 1" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W743
Fly High 1" Elbow Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W746

TOTAL: 528 + bags (instead of 670+bags)

Am I missing something??

skippabcool 04-06-2012 6:02 AM

You will also need sealant, wire and all the connectors, a circuit breaker.

I crossed my lines over to the other side for vent and drain. They were also combined so I needed a T fitting.

You will want to use a heat gun and some lube for the hose. Use a glove and heat the hose till it is soft.

Hole saws.

I just got done doing mine with the same pumps. Good luck.

skippabcool 04-06-2012 6:06 AM

You will need either metal or nylon filled glass clamps for all the hose connections.

tampawake 04-06-2012 7:49 AM

Jonathan

Call or email wakemakers those guys are great will make sure you have everything you need and willing to bet they will be able to match your quote or laundry list. At least give them a shot. I would prefer to get everything from one place. I am currently thinking of switching from puppies to cartridge since I have 750s now and they have been great with emails and questions. Give them a shot at matching.

shawndoggy 04-06-2012 9:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1742576)
Jonathan

Call or email wakemakers those guys are great will make sure you have everything you need and willing to bet they will be able to match your quote or laundry list. At least give them a shot. I would prefer to get everything from one place. I am currently thinking of switching from puppies to cartridge since I have 750s now and they have been great with emails and questions. Give them a shot at matching.

^^^THIS!

Wakemakers has always been very competitive pricewise, will totally take care of you from a customer service perspective, and you have the ability to call and get help with troubleshooting and system design.

jasonwm 04-06-2012 2:28 PM

We try really hard to have the best price on the components that are needed, but realize that sometimes that's not possible, or someone won't need the components we include with every kit.

The price for our kits does include a 10% discount over purchasing everything separately, so if you need what comes with the kits, that will give you the best deal when you factor in that it comes in one box with installation instructions and lifetime technical support included.

Of course we're DIYers too, and understand that, so if you enjoy figuring things out on your own, by all means order what you need from the best source possible.

If you want to make your life a little easier, use the 1-1/8" hose we started offering for your Pump -> Check Valve -> Bag connection. You'll need to get the 1-1/8" check valve as well, but that will eliminate the issue of heating the hose to stretch it to fit over the pump and Flow-RIte connector, as those are both 1-1/8" fittings.

cowwboy 04-07-2012 8:19 AM

I'm interested in the testing that was done on the rule vs. the tsunami.
I've been debating what to do to upgrade my system to speed it up fro mthe factory malibu 800's feeding my 1100 sacs.

chpthril 04-07-2012 1:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowwboy (Post 1742749)
I'm interested in the testing that was done on the rule vs. the tsunami.
I've been debating what to do to upgrade my system to speed it up fro mthe factory malibu 800's feeding my 1100 sacs.

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...last+flow+test

espritv8 04-09-2012 9:38 AM

Went with the rule pumps finally...

Now it's just a matter of installing it right. From what I understand after a bit a research, is that the systems needs to eliminate any kind of air bubbles, since the pumps are not self priming.

What are your suggestions to avoid airlock?

espritv8 05-01-2012 10:28 AM

I have question regarding one way valves. I'm thinking of putting them before the pump, this way the pump is always primed. But most of the installations with areator pumps, i saw on the web, it's the other way around. What do you think?

chpthril 05-01-2012 10:52 AM

The aerator pumps need to be mounted below the water line and as close to the source/thru-hull as possible. So the less plumbing between them and the water, the better. Also, aerators will not draw through a check-valve.

The best way to avoid air-lock is to have a consistent uphill travel from the thru-hull to the hose exiting the pumps outlet. This allows the water entering the thru-hull when the boat is launched, to push the air out of the pump body through outlet. Once the pump body is filled with water, they will pump.

Jeff 05-01-2012 1:15 PM

If the pumps are below the water line then they will always be primed when the hull is in the water. The aerator pumps push much better than they pull hence the check valves after the pump. The force of the water "wanting" to come into the hull would likely keep the check valve open if it was before the pump but I've never seen it done that way.

On your pump outlets if you orient them vertically make sure that the outlet is perfectly horizontal or slightly inclined NOT even a few degrees upward. If you mount them horizontally then the outlet should be in top and the centerline of the pump perfectly horizontal or slightly inclined NOT even a few degrees downward. If you follow those rules you shouldn't have any issues with airlock.

woodsy 05-01-2012 1:16 PM

Check out the Super Sac'R system too. It's new and works great for filling Far Sacs, a great replacement for Tsunami pumps. www.supersacr.com

Adams 05-01-2012 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skippabcool (Post 1742565)
You will also need sealant, wire and all the connectors, a circuit breaker.

I crossed my lines over to the other side for vent and drain. They were also combined so I needed a T fitting.

You will want to use a heat gun and some lube for the hose. Use a glove and heat the hose till it is soft.

Hole saws.

I just got done doing mine with the same pumps. Good luck.

Did you add a circuit breaker then individual fuses to each switch?

Adams 05-01-2012 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff (Post 1742529)
I ended up going with the Tsunami 800s since I was already way over budget with my ballast system. Between the pumps, the hose and the fittings it was an extra $250 or so IIRC.

Anyway I'd probably get the Rule 1,100s if I was doing it again. The performance is about the same or potentially a slight amount better than the Tsunami 1,200 accept it's a lot cheaper and easier to plumb for the Rules since they have 3/4" NPT on the intake side and 1" on the output side. The Tsunamis have a proprietary 1 1/8" straight thread on the intake side which you will have to buy adapters to connect up with your intake thru hulls or your manifold. Also, the output barbed fitting is 1 1/8" which you can cram 1" hose on but it makes it a lot more difficult to get it on there.

Tsunami 1200 also is available with a 1" NPT inlet.

espritv8 05-21-2012 9:52 AM

Do some of you guys have pictures of your aerator system? I have a single one inch inlet with a t fitting to 3/4 on the 1100 rule pumps.

For some reason, I can't get both pumps rolling at the same time, and have issues with my starboard side pump...

sidekicknicholas 05-21-2012 12:16 PM

FWIW we are running a semi-auto setup.... a pump is still put over the side of the boat but it fills all of the bags based off valves we open and close.

The pump we use to fill everything is a RULE 4000 -- it is insane. It fills two vdrive sacs, a fat seat bottom, and triangle bow sac in about 6-8 minutes. the biggest problem we had was all the plumbing for the system was used at 1" to match the Fly-High bags and the Rule4000 outlet is 3".... so we had to pinch it a few times which probably slows our filling time.

chpthril 05-21-2012 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espritv8 (Post 1753239)
Do some of you guys have pictures of your aerator system? I have a single one inch inlet with a t fitting to 3/4 on the 1100 rule pumps.

For some reason, I can't get both pumps rolling at the same time, and have issues with my starboard side pump...

Sounds like the stbd side pump is trapping air. Can you post a pic of your manifold. Are the pump bodies below the water level? You need to orient the pumps so there is a constant uphill flow all the way from the thru-hull and past the pumps outlet. This is needed in order allow any trapped air to purge out of the pump and be replaced with water.

espritv8 05-22-2012 9:21 AM

Ok, I'm redoing the system tomorrow. I will try to lower the pumps.

I'm not sure if it will be easy, there very little room there and the ball valve is rather big...


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