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-   -   Was DEFY a total bust? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792593)

imoore 04-04-2012 3:49 PM

Was DEFY a total bust?
 
Was anyone else disappointed about the way Defy turned out? Before I go on, I have always loved BFY and everything Ronix and Danny have ever done. There was just so much build up and talk. By the time the video came out I felt like I had seen the whole thing already though web videos for best tricks and articles in the mags leaving nothing to the imagination.

This is where I get to my point...Who is IODA Media? This is probably the sickest edit I have ever seen. Please don't let us down like Defy did, that goes for you too Lipsmack.


<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/39391909" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/39391909">#permacation teaser</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/iodamedia">Ioda Media</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

beretta5spd 04-04-2012 4:32 PM

are you kidding me??

There definitely was some things I would have done differently with Defy. But at the end of the day it was still a fantastic video and one I will keep on hand for sure.

I realize stuff like this gets hyped like crazy but at the same time I can't believe how much keyboard heroes like you are trying to demand from the athletes. They don't owe you anything. They get paid to do what they do because they're good at it, and if you were let down that's too bad. I thoroughly enjoyed a whole bunch of bangers including double flips, spins, and my favorite trick to watch... a blind pete.

Next time you go to write something like that... picture yourself saying it in front of Sean and Danny.
"Hey guys, you devoted 3 years of your life to it and even though I will never come close to being as good as you.... it was a bust."

I would hope you end up with a bloody nose

stang_killa_ss 04-04-2012 4:46 PM

i was kinda like you Ian. i was disappointed after 2 years of hype i expected a LOT.
when i was watching it it was just like the other 15 dvds i have.
it was touted as ground breaking. i may have missed something but i didnt see anything i hadnt already seen before.
but as with any wake video i enjoyed it.

irishrider92 04-04-2012 5:10 PM

I think your opinion with the IODA vid is kinda skewed. Its much easier for someone to edit a "HOLY CRAP!" teaser that really grabs you attention with huge tricks and fast music, than to make a full 40/50 minute video. And I'm not knocking the IODA vid. It looks good, but when I was watching the teasers for DEFY, I got more goosebumps than from that one.

Start at 0:53 for what I'm really talking about
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P6OmfFPHQo8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And was I disappointed with DEFY? Hell no! It really held my attention through the whole movie which is no something I can say about every vid. It offered new branches that I hadn't seen before like the surfing. Also the pool setup at radar, the monster rail and the step-up-step-down pool were awesome! And the soundtrack! My ears have never been so happy

One of my favourite sections of any movie is Danny's at the end, and it will be for quite some time.

What were you expecting? Just doing double flips and 10s off double ups to a dubstep soundtrack can wear out quickly...

captain_vilfo 04-04-2012 5:40 PM

I mean I've already seen all the biggest tricks being thrown down by harley clifford

imoore 04-04-2012 5:50 PM

Im sorry, I can tell I am coming across like a huge negative ned. I LOVED the Defy trailer. Best I've ever seen (snow, wake, skate, you name it). I also loved Defy, I have payed full attention to the wake industry for years and Defy was one of the most ground breaking vids of all time. To answer your question Brian, I was just expecting the tempo from the trailer to be the same in the video. I have a little editing experience my self and the full length video just seemed a bit rushed. To sum all of this up, if you are going to "tease" the entire wake community with a bad ass teaser then back it with the craziest video we've ever seen. I have a feeling these Ioda guys are going to surprise the wake industry with something new that is going to change the way wake videos are filmed...I just have a feeling. And Lipsmack is definitely going to speak for itself.

ghettofab 04-04-2012 6:20 PM

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/34493035?portrait=0&amp;color=ff9933" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

No Hype.....

So much goes into making a movie. So many different things play a huge role. People getting hurt, weather and just things lining. Sometimes it seems that nothing is going your way.

DEFY had a lot to live up to and Danny/Kilgus put their heart and soul into it. No one is making full length movies these days and that says a lot when Danny put everything on the line for his movie.

benjaminp 04-04-2012 6:36 PM

I would love to contribute to this, but 6 months later I'm still waiting for my copy of Defy to show up...

Cisco 04-04-2012 7:20 PM

Hey Ben. Dont download it at http://www.extremebits.org/details.php?id=11158

P2P sharing is illegal

joe_crawley 04-04-2012 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cisco (Post 1742255)
Hey Ben. Dont download it at http://www.extremebits.org/details.php?id=11158

P2P sharing is illegal

Super shady thing to post up. Definitely ban worthy in my book. Wake industry has been struggling to put out full length vids as it is, don't need one of the core sites linking to a place that eliminates the possibility of top quality feature films in the future.

benjaminp 04-04-2012 8:39 PM

Yeah I'm not going to download it.

Jmaxymek 04-04-2012 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang_killa_ss (Post 1742223)
it was touted as ground breaking. i may have missed something but i didnt see anything i hadnt already seen before.

Did I watch a different movie? What about the step up pool? Curved down slider? The island park with the Sys2.0? 2 helicopters?

I understand much of the movie's tricks were leaked through ads and awards, but I consider "groundbreaking" to be something that hasn't really been tried yet. I think DEFY was amazing. Did it exceed expectation? Yes and no. I expected the boat tricks. Who didnt? We all know multiple riders in DEFY have double flips and 1080+ spins, etc. that would be broken out in this movie. I DIDN'T expect the amazing editing, plus the often unrecognized filming aspect of the movie, and the obstacle tricks.

501s 04-04-2012 9:53 PM

Ban GQ please. Thats garbage!

TheHebrewHammer 04-04-2012 10:03 PM

Jeez Dwight, chill. There's nothing wrong with criticism. Just because OP can't ride like Danny or film like Kilgus doesn't mean he can't criticize their work. He's just sharing his opinion. That's what forums are for. Relax!

logan 04-04-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghettofab (Post 1742240)
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/34493035?portrait=0&amp;color=ff9933" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>

No Hype.....

So much goes into making a movie. So many different things play a huge role. People getting hurt, weather and just things lining. Sometimes it seems that nothing is going your way.

DEFY had a lot to live up to and Danny/Kilgus put their heart and soul into it. No one is making full length movies these days and that says a lot when Danny put everything on the line for his movie.

Dude every body knows you will bring the heat with lipsmack. let me know when I can pre order.

beretta5spd 04-04-2012 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHebrewHammer (Post 1742277)
Jeez Dwight, chill. There's nothing wrong with criticism. Just because OP can't ride like Danny or film like Kilgus doesn't mean he can't criticize their work. He's just sharing his opinion. That's what forums are for. Relax!

Hey I get sharing an opinion... it's the total bust part that bugs me.

Criticism even helps..... bad press is better than no press right???
I hope there's people looking for defy.... oh by the way it's in the iTunes store right now!

My biggest frustration is how more and more people are demanding athletes to meet their expectations. Like their expectations for this movie weren't met so it's a total bust. Give me a break. Start coming into these things with an open mind and enjoy it a little more!

Frozenwhite 04-05-2012 2:33 AM

I only started wakeboarding last year and DEFY is the first wakebaording movie I have ever watched (downloaded from itunes last week). I thought it was outstanding. Would appreciate if people could list other movies I have to check out

benjaminp 04-05-2012 4:53 AM

Push Process, The Butter Effect, Global Warning, Out of the Pond... someone else will pick it up from there.

Frozenwhite 04-05-2012 5:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjaminp (Post 1742293)
Push Process, The Butter Effect, Global Warning, Out of the Pond... someone else will pick it up from there.

Thanks, hardest part will be trying to source them over here in Scotland

TheHebrewHammer 04-05-2012 6:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjaminp (Post 1742293)
Push Process, The Butter Effect, Global Warning, Out of the Pond... someone else will pick it up from there.

Transgression, 12 Honkeys, Switch 22, Momentum, etc.

irishrider92 04-05-2012 6:26 AM

Chris if you can get to Robin Coates or Gordie Forsyth from loch Lomond, they'll probably have a good few vids which they'd share.

jaybee 04-05-2012 6:35 AM

Transgression is a must watch DVD!! I don't think there will ever be a movie that is more inspiring and pumps me up more. I may be a bit biased as Randall is one of my favorite riders, but being able to watch him comeback from his struggle and not riding for over 2 years is just inspiring to me. Plus I think the music is awesome. It is true mood music that goes with the film. Not whats hot right now.

TheHebrewHammer 04-05-2012 7:27 AM

Hell ya. Vandall is a beast.

alanp 04-05-2012 7:29 AM

ian no need to apologize, if you didnt like the dvd thats fine. dwight didnt even take the time to read your post and is way more of a "keyboard hero" imo. if something is going to be hyped for 2 years it better be really good, and i tend to agree this wasnt some mind blowing dvd.

captain_vilfo 04-05-2012 7:30 AM

how do you sign up for extreme bits it wont let me

benjaminp 04-05-2012 8:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain_vilfo (Post 1742323)
how do you sign up for extreme bits it wont let me

Its a sign ;)

jarrod 04-05-2012 8:27 AM

I thought DEFY was amazing, and was bummed when it ended.

MrPeepers 04-05-2012 8:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cisco (Post 1742255)
Hey Ben. Dont download it at http://www.Cisco'sAnA$$hole.org

P2P sharing is illegal

The sauce is weak with this one.

ToPHeR35 04-05-2012 9:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_crawley (Post 1742266)
Super shady thing to post up. Definitely ban worthy in my book. Wake industry has been struggling to put out full length vids as it is, don't need one of the core sites linking to a place that eliminates the possibility of top quality feature films in the future.

Oh please! It's not like they're dying making $450 a board and $450 a pair of bindings....

benjaminp 04-05-2012 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToPHeR35 (Post 1742358)
Oh please! It's not like they're dying making $450 a board and $450 a pair of bindings....

I really doubt they make 100% profit on every board they sell...

yeahhh 04-05-2012 9:18 AM

the full length wakeboard film is dying, and bashing on any full length is absurd. If you want all you're videos to go to the web right away you will kill the art of cinematography in wakeboarding, and give less reasons for companies to fund videos.

ToPHeR35 04-05-2012 9:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjaminp (Post 1742359)
I really doubt they make 100% profit on every board they sell...

Ok so conservative estimates are 50%. Figure selling 1 board and 1 pair of boots = 900

Half of 900 is 450...

still not bad, now add in all accessories such as ropes, handles, vests, etc...

I did a report on Ronix for my MBA class last year and I found a vague description of company operations which states that their yearly sales are between 5-10 mil

steezyshots 04-05-2012 9:40 AM

Kilgus doesn't make $1 off of board sales! Cisco you're a douche

imoore 04-05-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeahhh (Post 1742364)
the full length wakeboard film is dying, and bashing on any full length is absurd. If you want all you're videos to go to the web right away you will kill the art of cinematography in wakeboarding, and give less reasons for companies to fund videos.

I am NOT trying to bash on full length wake films, I think they are a very helpful tool in pushing wakeboarding. And I never dogged the riders or demanded more from the athletes, all I said was that the edit seemed rushed and Kilgus did not put out a video that met expectations. The reason I make these allegations is simply because I see some really positive up and comers like Ioda Media. #permacation isn't going to be a full length film but if you read the description there was $0 funding and the teaser is one of the best I have ever seen. Lipsmack is going to be amazing because we don't know what to expect. Keep killing it Ioda, I can't wait to see the web edits. I hope one day soon you get funding to make a full length film that blows minds.

tampawake 04-05-2012 10:51 AM

What are the best Randall videos

spencercoon 04-05-2012 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1742389)
What are the best Randall videos

I've watched his section in "My Side" probably 1000 times. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.

stang_killa_ss 04-05-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmaxymek (Post 1742269)
Did I watch a different movie? What about the step up pool? Curved down slider? The island park with the Sys2.0? 2 helicopters?

I understand much of the movie's tricks were leaked through ads and awards, but I consider "groundbreaking" to be something that hasn't really been tried yet. I think DEFY was amazing. Did it exceed expectation? Yes and no. I expected the boat tricks. Who didnt? We all know multiple riders in DEFY have double flips and 1080+ spins, etc. that would be broken out in this movie. I DIDN'T expect the amazing editing, plus the often unrecognized filming aspect of the movie, and the obstacle tricks.

yeah i had already seen all those by the time the DVD came out.
i love any full length wake film DVD. have nearly every one. but this one had SO much hype, and for so long.

BamaLurker 04-05-2012 11:42 AM

I thought defy was sick! Double ups, travel, rails, stunts at radar, tow in wakeboarding, and even a little wakeskate action! The only thing missing was some winching dams and spillways. I think it was the best feature length movie since out of the pond. Plus tons of bonus features; I don't know how you can hate on such a dope film. Great job kilgus and harf!!! Oh and I was pretty amped on shanes riding in the film too, best riding I've seen out of him in a couple of years. Since you were soooo dissapointed w defy then enlighten us on what else you would of like to seen in there to get ur golden seal of approval?

TheHebrewHammer 04-05-2012 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1742389)
What are the best Randall videos

Transgression. It was his comeback section and still a legendary one.

imoore 04-05-2012 1:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1742389)
What are the best Randall videos

Natural Born Thrillaz. His first trick was the biggest T-B you've ever seen, and it's behind an outboard with no tower. Closer, he does a massive front 3 of the dub with his back foot out of the boot. Best video part of all times in my opinion.

logan 04-05-2012 2:12 PM

The truth, relentless and innuendo were good too. Don't forget pre pop!

Frozenwhite 04-05-2012 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishrider92 (Post 1742306)
Chris if you can get to Robin Coates or Gordie Forsyth from loch Lomond, they'll probably have a good few vids which they'd share.

Never even thought of that. Robin is coming back over next month so I'll ask him then

ryanw209 04-05-2012 9:10 PM

I gotta say I agree with the OP. Don't get me wrong, I really liked Defy but I expected more for some reason. Too much hype like others have said is what I think. The other reason could possibly be becasue I watched The Art of Flight about a week before Defy came and that movie was mind blowing. It's just too bad there is so much more money in snowboarding to produce these films and travel to all the crazy places with amazing scenery.

mckenna 04-06-2012 5:15 PM

no hate for defy.

best wake film i have seen in ages. older movies in my collection like the truth will be hard pressed to get a run again.

defy just just makes them look dated.

dlamont 04-06-2012 5:55 PM

Defy was great. And if you think anyone is getting rich in the wakeboard industry, I'd like to strongly disagree. Please don't steal from this industry, try to support it. end of rant.

OP, that Slingshot film looked good!

sideswipeproductions 04-06-2012 10:27 PM

It blows my mind that the link and that fool that posted it still on here. Totally ban worthy.

I can tell you from first hand experience, no-one is getting rich making wakeboard films. We do it because we love it.

irishrider92 04-07-2012 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozenwhite (Post 1742452)
Never even thought of that. Robin is coming back over next month so I'll ask him then

Yeah man I got Slick City off his brother D. Freakin hilarious vid!

Dj2up10 04-07-2012 2:01 PM

I think the greater issue with this thread that is the elephant in the room...web videos.

I'm assuming that harf and Sean didnt know the hype would trail on as long as it did, due to injuries, etc. In my opinion nautique did it right with the new G23 hype. It was far enough out to build anticipation, but didn't drag out.

So again with drawn out hype, web videos that show us on a week to week basis the new stuff being stomped, it did make it harder to not watch defy and feel a bit of a let down.

That said, I've grown up with this sport, and defy was ground breaking with the production level and was a great film.

bftskir 04-07-2012 3:06 PM

more jiggling busts would be good

Cisco 04-07-2012 10:30 PM

Ironically, I paid for Defy on iTunes cuz I believe in supporting the industry. I bought In Transit for the same reason. People who illegally download wakeboard movies should realize who they are stealing from. But does it really 'hurt' the industry?

Ronix got their exposure. Kilgus got paid. I'm sure Kilgus is losing royalties from pirated copies. Probably riders too, especially Danny Harf.

Yet somehow we can download Liquidn's On The Line for free without 'hurting' the industry.

Why would I post a link that could 'hurt' the industry? Well, let's just say I underestimated the consequences of my actions.

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=1078032&t=o GIFSoup

imoore 04-09-2012 11:22 AM

#permacation Episod 1
 
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/39974330?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="225" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/39974330">#permacation - OWC</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/iodamedia">Ioda Media</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

I told you it would be good. Nice work Zach Schneider!

skiboarder 04-09-2012 1:56 PM

I really enjoyed Defy and Defy is probably the most extreme "big-budget" wake film to date, but I refused to watch any of the teasers starting about the begining of last season because I knew this was one that I wanted to buy and watch on the big screen (okay, my TV is only 40", but that is bigger than my laptop).

I learned my lesson years ago with Pointless. Still a super awesome video and one for any wake-fan's collection, but it took about 3 years to make and just about every shot was online, in another video or in a magazine by the time it went on sale. It really blunted the awesome impact of the video when I finally watched it on TV

Frozenwhite 04-10-2012 7:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishrider92 (Post 1742787)
Yeah man I got Slick City off his brother D. Freakin hilarious vid!

Sound advice man. Robin is going to sort me out with a few :)

migs 04-10-2012 8:05 AM

Speaking of Defy - do you guys know what size wheels those are on Dannys black tahoe pulling the 230?? Are those 20's or 18's???

sick vid BTW.


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