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-   -   Sue Ontario for Cable Park Land? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792307)

glwake 03-17-2012 10:46 AM

Sue Ontario for Cable Park Land?
 
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Currently we have no site to build a cable park in Ontario. In the Toronto area, we have lots of parkland with golf courses, baseball diamonds and soccer fields. Even skateboarders were given a piece of parkland to pave over.

If these sports are accommodated with parkland, but cable riding is not, isn't that discrimination?

Wakeskaters and wakeboarders are used to discrimination from waterskiiers. Being a young, fringe sport has made us cool, but now we have a better shot at the Olympics than waterskiing. We are a legit sport.

I am not a lawyer, but I believe wakeskaters/wakeboarders can unite to file a class action lawsuit against Toronto Parks and Conservation Ontario for discrimination, and request land for a cable in our settlement agreement.

Does anyone else think this could work?

greatlakewake.com

irishrider92 03-17-2012 12:27 PM

...have you asked nicely?

tbh I think if you do just go ahead and try sue as one of the first attempts, it could paint an ugly picture of the sport locally. Now if you're getting nowhere and the department are giving no good reason, and are just being stubborn, then it could be an option. I don't know the full story but the government there could just not know of the demand.

nuckledragger 03-17-2012 12:43 PM

this may have been done already but how about showing there is a desire for a cable park and the interest for the sport. Rather than getting people to join a class action try getting people to show sport for a park and sign a petition. You get more bees with honey.

alevitt 03-17-2012 1:16 PM

Seriously? Not a chance. As someone involved in the Ontario wake scene I'm highly disappointed you'd even ask this on a public forum.
What's your definition of legit? In terms of participation numbers, wakeboarding and wakeskating is way down there. It's pretty easy to understand why more soccer fields and baseball diamonds are being built: they have participation rates that are several THOUSAND times higher than wakeboarding and wakeskating and they're way cheaper than a cable. There's actually no new public city or provincially owned golf courses that have been built in recent memory; they're are private businesses not dealing with public sector money or public land. And they just started building skateparks a few years ago after more than a decade of demand and petitioning (and again a skatepark is way cheaper to build).
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see a cable park in Southern Ontario, but this isn't the way to go about getting it done.

stuey 03-17-2012 3:30 PM

^^^ Exactly... a city has to cater to the demand of the residents - soccer, baseball, walking trails, etc. Even a couple thousand wakeboarders don't make a huge impact on a province on what, 5-6 million?

That said, there are ways to go about it. You need cities on your side - sell the idea, show the interest, and have the money to come through on it when the time comes. Look at Hydrous... park land, near a high school and a skate park. The city fully supported the idea, but it was still privately funded.

glwake 03-18-2012 3:55 PM

Levitt: we could use your help

daveronix199 03-18-2012 4:27 PM

Okay soo let me ask you this... If there is a cable park in ontario... EVER... how the eff can it possibly be financially possible.... You have 4 months to make profit, for hard core riders possibly 6 months but 6 hard core riders won't cover cost of riding. With the cost of just the cable its going to be close to a million... then you need land... facility, insurance, obstacles. Yeah it makes sense when you live in a climate where you can shred all year around but it really doesn't seem like someone would want to invest in something that only can be used by the mass public 4 months of the year...

id love to see it but i don't see how its finically possible

irishrider92 03-18-2012 7:49 PM

Surely there's more than 4 months where it can be mass used. It seems more likely that it'd only be closed for 2/3 months when you look at parks in the UK and Germany. They close around November and open around Feb/March and they're not operating solely on hardcore riders only during the colder months.

gti2lo 03-18-2012 8:37 PM

Interesting view point but I don't think it will fly

benjaminp 03-18-2012 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishrider92 (Post 1738103)
Surely there's more than 4 months where it can be mass used. It seems more likely that it'd only be closed for 2/3 months when you look at parks in the UK and Germany. They close around November and open around Feb/March and they're not operating solely on hardcore riders only during the colder months.

Have you ever been to Canada? I havent ridden in 6 months, and I wont ride for another month. And when I do ride, I will be riding until I'm too cold to keep hanging on to the handle. My small lake will be that cold until the end of May. We have a 5 month riding season, at best.

glwake 03-18-2012 9:21 PM

I count 9 months in Ontario's riding season.

Boarder Pass and the Ranch already collaborated on an urban undercover winch hit last week. None of those dudes will stop riding until November.

benjaminp 03-18-2012 10:10 PM

Special circumstances? We've been really lucky with the weather this year, plus the BP boys seem to be immune to the cold, but in a normal year the riding is done by mid October and doesnt start up again until the end of April.

irishrider92 03-19-2012 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjaminp (Post 1738118)
Have you ever been to Canada? I havent ridden in 6 months, and I wont ride for another month. And when I do ride, I will be riding until I'm too cold to keep hanging on to the handle. My small lake will be that cold until the end of May. We have a 5 month riding season, at best.

Nah I haven't but I was just judging based on how far north Ontario is on a map compared to the UK and Germany where cable is huge!

benjaminp 03-19-2012 7:47 AM

I definitely looked that up too, but its really not comparable. And I'm even talking about southwestern Ontario, not northern Ontario or Quebec.

canadian_waterboy 03-19-2012 9:53 AM

OK... obviously some of the comments pertaining to the Ontario riding season have been made by individuals who have never resided in Ontario. The notion of a 9 month riding season is ridiculous. Besides this past winter, which was uncharacteristically warm, the lakes traditionally freeze November - April. So unless you are planning on creating some open water with a chainsaw.... I highly doubt you are riding these months. Now i know ppl are going to get on here and argue that winching counts, and YES you will find some drainage ditches with water in them before april. However, as this relates to the viability of a commerical wakeboard facility, I feel like any and all winching should be excluded from calculating the ontario riding season. SO.. based on my experience, there are 6 months WITH NO ICE. This still doesn't mean that the riding season is 6 months. While there are a few (and I'm talking probably less than 20) individuals who are crazy/ devoted enough to submerge themselves in the proverbial ice baths that are Ontario lakes in November and April, the vast majority of wake boarders won't even consider taking the plunge until June, and most Ontarians' season ends in August or September. Now before someone jumps on here, and chasetizes me for sullying the names of all those die hard ontario riders who shred until their testicles receed back into their body... let me explain. Ontario wakeboarding is highly dependant upon the cottaging community in Ontario. Unlike areas in the Southern U.S, the wakeboarding population in Ontario is derived from a limited few with access to waterfront properties. In ontario, wakeboarding is exclusively an activity of the upper and middle class. Seeing as the cottaging season adheres to the school sumer break, July 1st to August 31st, this is the effective riding season for the MAJORITY of ontario residents. I'd like to reiterate that my comments do not relate to those hardcore ontario riders (most likely the ones who frequent this forum). I'm simply commenting on the demographic makeup of Ontario riders. That being said.... who knows.... the cost of cable riding does make wakeboarding accessible to a larger demographic, and just maybe there would be enough interested parties to make a full cable in Ontario financially feasible. But don't kid yourself, while this could happen some day (and it has in Montreal and Ohio), the wakeboarding season is still confined by the will of mother nature.

canadian_waterboy 03-19-2012 9:58 AM

As for suing the government for a cable park.... give me a fu&%ing break..... I seriously hope you haven't put any money or attention into this idea, as it is a complete waste of your time.

stuey 03-19-2012 10:09 AM

Let's be realistic.. Ontario would be a 6 month season for most people - April to September... with about a 3-4 month PEAK season. You may be able to have some weekends on either side of that 6 month period for the hardcore riders but that's about it. Any place will have the hardcore riders riding in whatever temp but you are not going to get 100 or even 50 people to a cable in March when its 40-50 degrees F.

Not to say the project isn't viable. Summertime spots get packed in Canada because everyone wants to take advantage of the hot weather when it's here. Eventually it will gain popularity that it will stay decent in the shoulder season (like in UK/Germany as stated above).. people will invest in drysuits and whatnot to extend their season. A $500 drysuit is still cheaper than boat storage for the winter :)

Kudos for spreading the stoke and trying to get something accomplished in ON. There's just better ways to go about it than 'suing' for land.. it would never fly as it would set the most horrible precedent ever. Every single recreational group would have their hand out looking for government facilities for their pastime. Next thing you know there would be public segway racing courses and a dedicated RC car jump track in your local park.

canadian_waterboy 03-19-2012 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishrider92 (Post 1738144)
Nah I haven't but I was just judging based on how far north Ontario is on a map compared to the UK and Germany where cable is huge!

Despite being located on comparable northern latitudes, areas in Europe have very different climate patterns. I think the Gulf stream is one of the reasons for this disparity. Warm water from the Gulf flows north east across the Atlantic, and warms the climate in areas of North Europe.

This is my rudimentary understanding from 1 environmental science class and wikipedia. I'm sure there is more to it, and hopefully someone can clarify further.

glwake 03-19-2012 11:34 AM

No one wants a lawsuit. We want freedom of sport.

Here is a similar legal situation: http://www.onthesnow.ca/news/blogs/a...o-snowboarders

Thanks for the support Stuey. Strangely enough, a local park DOES have a dedicated RC plane field. No car track though.

http://bramalearcflyingclub.tripod.c...s/apr28_12.jpg

alevitt 03-19-2012 8:38 PM

I think realistically the season could run from mid-April to mid-October with the majority of the traffic (maybe 75-80%) occurring in June, July, & August. That being said there may be other ways of generating revenue throughout the year. Look at Adrenaline Adventures in Winnipeg. They invested as deep as you could go: full 6 tower system with island, all UNIT obstacles and 2 System 2.0's on a smaller finger lake. I would think their summers are similar (probably even shorter) than Southern Ontario. I'm not sure what their winter time activity is, I thought it was snow tubing or toboganing.
The link discussing allowing snowboarders onto a ski hill is an apples to oranges comparison. There would be no cost to allow snowboarders onto a ski hill. It seems like you're asking for land from the city or provincial governments, which is a massive capital cost. If there was a cable park in southern Ontario only open to waterskiers, then it would be a valid argument.
Realistically, you need an investor (or investors) with a sizeable chunk of change for the initial capital investment. That's where the real legwork is to opening a cable.
Would love to be involved in some way.

glwake 03-20-2012 11:13 AM

notice:

Great lake wake prohibits its members from filing any lawsuit or legal action against any third party. Failure to conform to this rule will be considered immediate resignation from the great lake wake movement.

The views and opinions expressed in this thread remain hypothetical and do not reflect the views and opinions belonging to the sponsors, associates or partners of great lake wake.

robe8300 03-20-2012 1:33 PM

ok, umm clearly you can wakeboard 12 months a year in Ontario.

http://vimeo.com/4242992


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