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-   -   Sub Question (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=792161)

adam4x4 03-07-2012 9:03 PM

Sub Question
 
I have had some bad luck with kicker. Last year I went through 2 L5 12's and then 2 L7 12's. I powering them with a syn 1. I'm thinking of going to one ported XXX wet sounds 12" or a JL 12" W6 or W7. my question is will one 12" be good enough and which one would be better or is there something else that I should look at. the boat I have is a 2010 F21, going to put the sub under the drivers dash. not sure what I'm going to do with the hole behind the seat.
thanks,
Adam

my_malibu 03-07-2012 9:21 PM

wow i ran a Kicker l7 for 4 years at 1000 with no problems what so ever
what kind of box were you using?
Sounds to me the amp was clipping at high volume.

but to answer you're question
i would good with the wetsounds xxx
the amp was designed to run it

I went with a exile big 15 under the dash
to replace the kicker I had

chris_b 03-08-2012 5:09 AM

I ran an L7 with 1000 watts also with no problem. Now I am running 1 Memphis Mojo 12 with 3200 watts. Trust me it is enough! I have to run the bass turned down some on most songs.

david_e_m 03-08-2012 5:18 AM

Adam,
With any woofer you will find that the copper voice coil burns at about the same temperature, the enamel coating that insulates the voice coil windings melts at about the same temperature, adhesives fail at about the same temperature and so on. If two woofers of the identical size have the same size voice coil and one has a power rating of 1000 watts while the other is rated at 2000 watts, one of the companies is pulling your leg. Sure, designers of woofers have SOME latitude in creating higher power handling but past a certain small margin it will be at the cost of sound quality, sensitivity or some other attribute.
So, if you have been through that many woofers that are known to be built well (while I don't do much with Kicker woofers I do know that they will handle some abuse) then I would be more focused as to why I had the past failures so I didn't carry the same problem(s) forward with a new investment.
I have not found a woofer to date that can't be blown. Yet I have seen the same woofer last a week or last 10 years depending on the user, system design and execution. And in the same way I have heard the identical woofer sound anywhere from fantastic to terrible for the same reasons.
First, find out WHY these woofers have been blowing.

David
Earmark Marine

lakesurfer 03-08-2012 6:41 AM

As an FYI, I believe WS is discontinuing the XXX and coming out with a new sub. At least, that is the rumor I heard.

wetsounds1 03-08-2012 9:01 AM

Rumor is true. We are out of stock on the current XXX and there will be a new XS-XXX V2 shipping in about 45 days. I am always looking at ways to continue to push the envelope in design. Our demo boat hit 150dB with two XXX, you would think I would be satisfied. LOL. Keep an eye out for some press releases on the XXX-V2.

Tim
Wet Sounds

adam4x4 03-09-2012 8:41 AM

Thank you for all. I had a shop in havasu do the stereo and ad just it all, I have not had any problems with any thing else. I did notice that the subs would get hot where they mount to the box, I ask and was told that that was ok, but i still do not think so. Kicker said that the subs DC and is not going to warranty them. I'm not sure what they mean by DC.

david_e_m 03-09-2012 9:19 AM

Adam,
What they mean by 'DC'.... Well amplifiers do not really put out DC ('direct current' like your car battery) until something has catastrophically failed. However, when the amplifier is over-driven, driven into compression or the system is hard clipping for any combination of reasons, the signal tends to look more like a square wave rather than a transient musical waveform. And many refer to this AC signal as 'DC'. In this case the woofer is in the full ON mode a much higher percentage of the time with less transition time to allow for heat dissipation and cooling. Now you are running the speaker into thermal failure.
A speaker with 5 percent efficiency would be off the charts (both excellent and impossible in your case) so at least 95 percent of all the power you pump into that woofer gets converted to heat. That would be 950 watts on a 1000 watt amplifier. Makes for a serious toaster oven, right?
To stop toasting woofers you have to uncover and change what is leading to very poor system efficiency. It might be the impedance load, enclosure, location of the woofer/enclosure, phasing, supply voltage, EQ, tone control settings, bass boost, crossover, system tuning or another over-driven component in the signal path including program material or maybe even the user.
You have to clearly communicate with the stereo guys how you use the system, what music you play and under what conditions so that they can make whatever change is required for you to stop smokin' woofers. If together you guys can't come up with a resolution together then enlist the technical assistance of the manufacturer. Believe me they have seen the same scenario countless times and should be able to give you some good advice. It won't help anyone if you say, "I never play it that loud."

David
Earmark Marine

bendow 03-10-2012 8:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsounds1 (Post 1736119)
Rumor is true. We are out of stock on the current XXX and there will be a new XS-XXX V2 shipping in about 45 days. I am always looking at ways to continue to push the envelope in design. Our demo boat hit 150dB with two XXX, you would think I would be satisfied. LOL. Keep an eye out for some press releases on the XXX-V2.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Wow...150db with 2 12's rated at 750w RMS....and in a boat? I don't see how that's possible. What meter? Term-lab? Where did you mount it? How much power? Was that 150db on music? 150db burp? What tuning frequency?

bendow 03-10-2012 11:37 PM

Earmark, I'm not a fan of PM's

"Benjamin,
I read your challenge to Wetsounds. I'm not in agreement or disagreement with you. Frankly I'm not sure that power handling has a major impact for short bursts since higher power handling often means less sensitivity.
But I was hoping you could do the math for me as to how you would determine the SPL ceiling for two 12s in bass-reflex enclosures tuned at 65 Hz in a boat side by side aimed in the same direction for a short burp using a test tone with the mic positioned between the two woofers and laying just off the floor.
Thanks
David
Earmark Marine"

Ugh...my challenge? What the hell are you talking about? How is asking for details a challenge? Hitting 150db in a boat with 2 WS-XXX's seems highly unlikely (even vomiting a test tone at 65hz). There's guys in SPL competitions with 5k watts going to 2 12's in a sealed car that are struggling to hit 150db.

And, no, I'm not doing math for you.

skuhleman 03-12-2012 6:54 AM

Oh well heck with a box tuned to 65hz and the mic right infront of the subs yea I could see it hitting 150db on a test tone. Back in high school I had an extreme budget system of 2 audiopipe 15's and a audiopipe 2500.1 in a 10 cube 25hz box hitting 148.7 at 57hz on term lab in a s10 blazer and 2 audiopipe 12's off a 1500.1 in 6.5 cube 35hz hitting 145.6 at 48 hz on term lab in a grand am, both were done at the passenger kick panel, so right infront of the subs and I'm sure wetsounds is built considerably better than audiopipe lol so yea I could believe that. Congrats guys that's beating pretty hard.

hunter660 04-25-2012 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsounds1 (Post 1736119)
Rumor is true. We are out of stock on the current XXX and there will be a new XS-XXX V2 shipping in about 45 days. I am always looking at ways to continue to push the envelope in design. Our demo boat hit 150dB with two XXX, you would think I would be satisfied. LOL. Keep an eye out for some press releases on the XXX-V2.

Tim
Wet Sounds

More then 45 days have passed. Do you have an update on this new sub for us?

adam4x4 04-25-2012 3:08 PM

No not yet, my boat is in the shop for about 3 weeks getting some work done to it from a sand bar damage that I did. hope to get it back soon so i can get it in to a stereo shop. I was hoping to see if the wet sounds XXX-12" where going to come out soon, but i have not heard anything yet.

hunter660 04-25-2012 3:09 PM

My message was to Tim

wetsounds1 04-25-2012 3:30 PM

2 Attachment(s)
sorry for the delay. The XS-XXX V2 is done. But will not be shipping to first of June. Had too many delays in raw materials. Here are some pics. New XS-XXX V2 will be all black with flat black cone and gloss black frame. New tinsel leads woven through the rubber spider, new voice coil, new voice coil venting with integrated heat sink insdie the T Yoke which is really cool. Increases power handling and VC cooling, new cone composite blend of carbon fiber and poly-mica, We have also added to the current XS-XXX page the slot loaded enclosure design we built for the Tige.

Tim
Wet Sounds

hunter660 04-25-2012 3:33 PM

Price? Does in come in dual 4ohm?

wetsounds1 04-25-2012 3:38 PM

MSRP $599. Will only be in dual 2 ohm. So can be wired at 1 ohm or 4 ohm.

Tim
Wet Sounds

hunter660 04-25-2012 4:54 PM

Can the XS-12 handle 1000 RMS then? My amp only runs down to 2 Ohm.

bushtree 04-26-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsounds1 (Post 1747175)
MSRP $599. Will only be in dual 2 ohm. So can be wired at 1 ohm or 4 ohm.

Tim
Wet Sounds

Any plans for a 15" ? or is 12" going to be the only offering ?

wetsounds1 04-26-2012 10:47 AM

jon,, what amp do you have? the XS-12 is 500 watts rms but we use the SYN-2 mono at 4 ohms for 700x1 on it all the time. But 1000 is too much for it.

nick, No plans this year for a 15 inch.

Tim
Wet Sounds

hunter660 04-26-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wetsounds1 (Post 1747419)
jon,, what amp do you have? the XS-12 is 500 watts rms but we use the SYN-2 mono at 4 ohms for 700x1 on it all the time. But 1000 is too much for it.

nick, No plans this year for a 15 inch.

Tim
Wet Sounds

ZED Minotaur
From what I understand the new ones will be 750watts at 4 Ohm, so I guess I can still run it that way.


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