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-   -   Upgrade Brakes with 24's Pulling a Boat with Escalade? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791918)

watersun 02-21-2012 8:31 AM

Upgrade Brakes with 24's Pulling a Boat with Escalade?
 
What is everyone's opinions on needing to upgrade brakes if I put 24's on my Escalade EXT? Is this something that would definitely need to be done? If I didn't upgrade my brakes from stock, would the brakes just wear faster and take longer to stop or would I actually be doing some damage to the truck. etc? Thanks for any opinions/advice.

FunkyBunch 02-21-2012 8:44 AM

I would say it depends. It's the rotating weight difference that would make you need to increase braking. If the new wheel and tire combo weighs more than the old combo then I would upgrade the brakes to keep the same stopping power. If your upgrading to 24's i would guess there is a good amount more weight so you should prob upgrade your brakes to compensate.

liljohn 02-21-2012 8:54 AM

What Year is your caddy? Alot of guys on the chevy forum with the older body style are upgrading to the new body style brakes. The new body style has larger rotors and 4 piston calipers instead of 2 and they are a direct swap. Not to mention CHEAP! Most big brake kits start at $1k and go up you can do this one for about $400

stuey 02-21-2012 8:55 AM

Really depends on the type of boat/trailer... how heavy is it, do you have trailer brakes and if so what kind, etc. Also depends on the type of towing you do... is it flat, hilly, long distances, etc?

I tow with 24s on mine and don't have a problem at all, but its mostly a 5-8 min drive with only one hill to the launch. I also only have a Wakesetter VTX so it's a little bit lighter than those with 22-24 footers.

The odd long weekend trip does involve 2.5-4 hour drives and many hills, and you can definitely feel them getting hot on the hills. Not to an unsafe point but you can tell they are working harder and thus wearing down faster. I swapped out for some better pads and vented/slotted rotors, which many say it actually wear the pads faster but it does dissipate heat. It's a pretty cheap upgrade to make.

So to sum it up.. if you have a boat on the lighter side and stay local I wouldn't worry about it. If not, maybe look at some options. You can find slotted rotors cheap, or you can go with Baer Eradispeed kits (oversized rotors with caliper relocation) for a little more. Anything more than that tends to be big bucks...

Elliottsx80 02-21-2012 9:28 AM

if i was you, i wouldnt run lower end brake pads from autozone, nappa, no matter how good they tell you they are and go to your local chevrolet dealership and pick up a set there. also. i would check your trailor brakes on your rig. if they are ajusted right then you shouldnt have any kind of problems. i tow my x80 with my h2 sut and my 2010 escalade and it does fine. but it took me a little bit to get the trailor brakes ajusted right. i tow sometimes 5 and 6 hours. i would spend a little time messing with your trailor brakes before you go out and spend a couple of grand on aftermarket drilled and slotted rotors with 6 piston calipers. IMO

Txjole 02-21-2012 9:48 AM

For 24's you need to upgrade the brakes if you pulling a trailer or not, ask my lawyer.

watersun 02-21-2012 10:09 AM

It's a 2007 EXT, so it's the newer body style and I pull a 21' 2008 Super Air Nautique with a dual axle trailer that has brakes.

Joe, did you have an incident where you got into a lawsuit because you hit someone and didn't have upgraded brakes?

nautiquesonly 02-21-2012 10:27 AM

Robby what do you do for a living? I am looking for a job change and you seem to be making it to pay for all those toys!

Patryk 02-21-2012 10:46 AM

I have 26's on my 2011 Denali and it doesn't matter. The weight of 24's and 26's isn't like 2000lbs more than the stock 22s. My trailer has brakes too though. I use to have a 23ft cuddy and it towed great. I now have a new 20ft TIge, so that should be no problem.

kskonn 02-21-2012 11:18 AM

I have always upgraded my breaks when going with larger rims. It is not necessarily the extra weight but as mentioned before it is the rotational weight generated by the larger rims. So 1 more lb closer to the center of the hub is exponentially harder to stop. It simply becomes harder to stop the wheel from rotating.

You can try this out, put small wheen on a broom stick spin it and stop it it at the center, go up a little more in size and it gets a lot harder.

It is not a requirement but I always operated under the better safe than sorry mantra.

02-21-2012 11:26 AM

IMO...an suv with 24-26" wheels would look silly with stock brakes. Had a buddy with 26" on his H2, looks like he spent all his $$ on wheels and nothing on upgrading a main component.

bruizza 02-21-2012 11:42 AM

I towed an A22 with 24s on my avalanche with no issues. I also towed it with a Yukon Denali with 22s and a Brembo brake kit. No question about it the brembos made a HUGE difference but they were also like an 8k upgrade. So IMHO there is no Ned to upgrade your brakes unless you just feel like dropping the money.

jeff_mn 02-21-2012 12:05 PM

I would have your OEM rotors on your truck turned and get new pads on your truck and the trailer put on.

I don't think you need an "upgrade" for an additional 150lbs in weight. Your overall diameter wont change much from factory - so it's a rotational mass issue. You wont notice much difference. If you aren't hauling in serious mountains - I'd freshen everything up and make sure that your trailer brakes are fresh and properly adjusted. IMO - the trailer brakes are as important to the equation as the truck. If you have 4 good brakes on the trailer - you'll have no issues. 24s or not.

tommyg 02-21-2012 1:31 PM

Brakes are pretty important when you think about the safety of your family. i wasn't happy with the stock brakes on our '07 denali, so I upgraded to SSBC's in the front, even just with our 20's. I went with the set that still fits the 18" wheels, in case i need to use the spare.

Next time, I would likely just upgrade all around with larger rotors, and go with Baer. I've heard really good things about them, and I would say my front only SSBC's are a small improvement, not as much as I was hoping for.

Plus, if you're ballin' enough to roll 24's, it really cheapens the look, as in baller on a budget...;)

nitrousbird 02-21-2012 2:46 PM

You are really only going 2" bigger than stock - not a big deal. And you Escalade on 30's will still outbrake my 02 Avalanche on stock 17's and Hawk pads. But with properly set trailer brakes there shouldn't be any issue at all, especially towing a 21' boat.

If you are going to upgrade pads, don't do factory pads as they aren't anything to write home about. A good set of aftermarket pads will make a noticable difference.

Elliottsx80 02-21-2012 2:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
i have 22s on my 2010 escalade and it will shut down my x80 with a tandem axle trailor like nothing. the trick is in your trailor brakes. if there not set right your pissing in the wind. if you can figure out how to manually ajust your trailor brakes then put a small brake controller in.

Elliottsx80 02-21-2012 3:16 PM

and its a twin engine x80

pprior 02-21-2012 3:51 PM

Brake controllers only work with electronic brakes - most boat trailers have surge brakes and they are not affected by a controller.

shawndoggy 02-21-2012 5:36 PM

I must not be very smart, because I don't get it... how does the relatively small change in overall weight change the braking picture significantly? I guess I could understand if you had the truck jacked off the ground so all four wheels could spin freely and you wanted them to stop faster, but here isn't the 3 ton vehicle much more significant than a minor change in rotating mass?

I'm not a physicist or nuthin, so I might be wrong...?

02-21-2012 6:18 PM

I understand & agree that one size up is not going to be a big change.

I just think when I see these blinged out escalades, navigators, hummers running big 24-26" wheels, the stock 12" rotors looks odd. But if someone doesnt want to spend the extra dough on upgrading rotors/calipers and such thats their choice. I mean theyre upgrading wheels for looks are they not?

Yes boat trailers will stop you and you wont have much decrease in stopping power.

Not to go off topic...now that an ext & escalade owner has chimed in...looking into both, should i get an ext or do the escalade? its the same just a truck bed on back right?

Elliottsx80 02-21-2012 6:25 PM

just depends on what you want lr3. if you want a bed or not. the one thing that you should make sure you get is the awd model. if you get a pre 07 most 2wd models come with a 5,3 in stead of the 6,0.. post 07 then its a standard 6.2

02-21-2012 6:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliottsx80 (Post 1733172)
just depends on what you want lr3. if you want a bed or not. the one thing that you should make sure you get is the awd model. if you get a pre 07 most 2wd models come with a 5,3 in stead of the 6,0.. post 07 then its a standard 6.2

Cool thanks. Yeah looking at AWD models. I had a 08 Denali before my rover but my eye likes the look of the ext. but id have to buy a rack ext for the truck bed to carry my paddleboards so Im going back & forth.

Back to y'alls brake discussion:)

watersun 02-21-2012 8:09 PM

When I was looking into Escalades, I chose the EXT because I don't have a large family to haul around and the bed is great for boating when you have a bunch of wet stuff you can just throw in the back. Unless you are hauling around 3+ kids, then I would go with the EXT IMO. This is my second one (had on '04 before with the 6.0) and I couldn't be happier with the new features and bigger motor on the '07+.

02-21-2012 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by watersun (Post 1733185)
When I was looking into Escalades, I chose the EXT because I don't have a large family to haul around and the bed is great for boating when you have a bunch of wet stuff you can just throw in the back. Unless you are hauling around 3+ kids, then I would go with the EXT IMO. This is my second one (had on '04 before with the 6.0) and I couldn't be happier with the new features and bigger motor on the '07+.

Perfect!! Yep no kids and im def getting tired of throwing my wet gear in the back of my suv. Hell ive only used my back seat for people a few times in 3 yrs!! Thanks

loudontn 02-22-2012 4:56 AM

Jeebus! How well does your Escalade do pulling that X-80?

h20king 02-22-2012 5:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Like said above you will be fine without upgrading the brakes.I had 24"s on my last truck and it stooped just fine with no noticeable change.I would go with the EXT so you have a place for gear and boards without tearing up the interior of your ride.

Jeff 02-22-2012 6:21 AM

If you want a mild upgrade at a great price checkout the seller "brakemotive76" on eBay. Those pad/rotor combos have a great reputation on the Dodge truck and other forums. I have 20s on my Dodge 1500 and swapped in the BrakeMotive pads and rotors on the front and it made a noticeable difference over stock.

rallyart 02-22-2012 7:31 AM

The stock brakes on an Escalade are very good. The increased rotating mass of a larger wheel is not going to make a huge difference. The real differences come when the outside diameter of the tire changes. If you add to the diameter you are adding to the torque moment arm and overcoming some of the brakes force. With any vehicle when the tire outside diameter increases you lose braking ability. That's when you should look to upgrade brakes.
Different pads can help, or hurt, but by the time you change rotors, calipers and mounts you have spent a fortune.

watersun 02-22-2012 7:40 AM

I would be keeping the same overall diameter by using a lower profile tire, so the size would be the same as stock. The weight of the wheels would be the only difference.

FunkyBunch 02-22-2012 8:27 AM

I put together a quick little info grid. This shows braking distance from 60mph on various vehicles we use as tow rigs. I also included the standard wheel size that the vehicle comes with at its entry level. This should show what the factory designed the the vehicle with a smaller wheel than we see commonly at the dealers. Since most of these trucks don't have upgraded brakes from the factory as the trim level changes and the wheel size increases.
I would agree that the change from a 22 to a 24 is not a real big deal but a change from an 18 to a 24 is. Rotational weight increase exponentially with more weight further from the spindle. I am not suggesting a Brembo kit but something to help dissipate heat build or a better pad would look like it would make a good difference.
Most of this data was pulled from Edmunds. It looks like from here the brakes on the Escalade kinda suck compared to everything else not real sure why when the Tahoe is virtually the same vehicle. The GMC Denali "not listed" has the same distance as the Tahoe LS. The Armada has a good distance but I think they have had tons of brake issues with that truck. Don't want to start any big debate just information for the OP.

Braking from 60mph feet.
2011 Navigator 149ft Standard 18inch wheel
2011 Tahoe LS 144ft Standard 17inch wheel
2011 Escalade 158ft Standard 18inch wheel
2011 Armada 132ft Standard 18inch wheel
2011 Silvy CC 150ft Standard 17inch wheel
2011 F150 132ft Standard 17inch wheel
2011 Sequoia 146 Standard 18inch wheel

Houstonshark 02-23-2012 9:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liljohn (Post 1733076)
What Year is your caddy? Alot of guys on the chevy forum with the older body style are upgrading to the new body style brakes. The new body style has larger rotors and 4 piston calipers instead of 2 and they are a direct swap. Not to mention CHEAP! Most big brake kits start at $1k and go up you can do this one for about $400

Are you talking about upgrading from Pre 2007 to 2007+ brakes?

Houstonshark 02-23-2012 1:34 PM

I did OEM Replica 24" wheels on my wife's Escalade. We plan on using it some to tow our RZR when it comes in. I'll probably upgrade the brakes when it comes time to replace them but I'm not sure it's all that necessary, maybe just better pads.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...8/103efbaa.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...8/325ad720.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...f11b24a4-1.jpg

gti2lo 03-04-2012 9:47 AM

Those oem replicas look great

Patryk 03-08-2012 3:18 PM

I tow with 26's on my Denali and have no problem.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...05012517_n.jpg

boardjnky4 03-09-2012 8:40 AM

Upgrading the brake pads and lines will probably do the trick if you have any issues.


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