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-   -   Supreme warning !!! (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791485)

surffresh 01-17-2012 7:39 AM

Supreme warning !!!
 
3 Attachment(s)
For anyone considering a Supreme or any line that Kal Kustoms or Karl Kastor has anything to do with, you should know what COULD happen. I am in no way saying that everything will happen everytime, but it is my civic duty to share this. It should also be noted that Calabria builds Supreme for Kal Kustoms. I will start from the beginning with a pic of Bob and the first pic of my boat build. As you will see that did not go as planned. Then after things worked out and it was coming together I got the second pic where the whole top deck was to be white, so as you see in the third pic, they just sprayed white over the blue stripe after the sales person told me, "we need to make a new top deck". Saved some money there but I had to clean white dots for days after I got the boat....and that was THE SMALLEST of my problems to come. This thread will be like a book and I will add pics with facts as I have time. The main theme here is I bought the boat as a dealer and promised them to promote the boat with wakesurfing, to this day they still have a video on their web site that I made with the boat. So the no longer employed KK sales person agreed and was 110% behind me using the boat as a demo / promotion and when I sold it, it would be sold as new and warrantees would start at that time. I sold it and the buyer called Karl and Karl said " I will not warrantee the boat because it has 100 hours and 65 is the average per year, but Mercury will warrantee the engine". This folks is just the start....more to come, screws through the floor and through the gel, crooked swim deck...they paid to have most fixed....but REALLY?

timmyb 01-17-2012 8:11 AM

I'm confused. Why is he holding a large chunk of the boat up in the first picture? Did it break or something?

surffresh 01-17-2012 8:24 AM

pre release, where the gel coat does not bond and just cracks off, spraying weather conditions not condusive, too hot, cold, or humid. Most "real" boat manufactors have a climatized room and this does not happen

timmyb 01-17-2012 8:41 AM

Well...that's one reason they are $20k cheaper than other brands.

rbeckei 01-17-2012 8:41 AM

Sorry to hear your ploblems. I am shock this has happened. I am a Calabria owner and never had a problem with them. There is no Calabria dealer around here, So when I had a couple of issues they solved it no questions asked. I hope things will work out for you.

rbeckei 01-17-2012 8:45 AM

Not nocking any one but It could happen to any boat brand.

ragboy 01-17-2012 9:03 AM

Geez, thats nuts. I will say this, I learned a TON when I went to the Tige factory in abilene and so the care they take with the hulls and gelcoat application. Looking at every picture I have seen from supreme/calabria it looks like they are being made in someones garage. We will be posting our factory tour video soon, its night and day. Way too bad, because there is no question that that Supreme V226 makes a great wake.

surffresh 01-17-2012 9:29 AM

1 Attachment(s)
this is kinda funny...how could you overlook and deliver this swimdeck, sorry about the sideways pic and before I put more pics up, does anyone know why or how to fix ? they are straight up in the file ? weird, thanks

wakebrdr94 01-17-2012 9:30 AM

So here is my question, if you knew there was craftsmanship issues, or things were not being handled to your standards, why would you take delivery on the boat? I would have backed out of the deal with the first picture. Im just asking because you used the boat for 100 hours, sold it, and are now letting us know. Not saying the dude didn't pull some shady stuff with you, just asking

surffresh 01-17-2012 9:40 AM

the question is valid, but they had a nice deposit and said it was just too hot out and should not have done it until the middle of the night and assured me that when they did it again it would be perfect, people that have these boats could take it on the chin also and I feel real bad for them as I do for dealers that have them, I called every dealer and went over my delima 5 months ago and everyone of them said, do what you need to do, this is how Karl rolls, so after his 65 hour rule dejour on no warrantee, no return phone calls or emails....here you go Karl, more to come

Riteride 01-17-2012 12:06 PM

Did anyone loose any money on the deal?

cwb4me 01-17-2012 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riteride (Post 1726274)
Did anyone loose any money on the deal?

Someone lost something or this thread wouldn't be here.;)

surffresh 01-17-2012 12:42 PM

@Brett, yes sure I took a bath on it, Supreme has walked away from it payed what they asked for. I just had a nice 30 min conversation with Bob from Calibria and he informed me that the first pic is not him and that Calibria has nothing to do with Supreme but they do share the same building and I am not real clear on that and apologize for including Bob into the mix, I was misinformed. International Marine builds these fine Supreme boats for Kal Kustoms that no one wants to stand behind after 65 or 100 hours or it just depends on Karl's mood that day I guess.

motogod77 01-17-2012 12:44 PM

I just wanted to put my .02 in . . .

First of all Drew @ Surffresh is a great guy, I actually bought one of my Shred Stixx from him, and although I have nothing to do with his purchase from Supreme Boats (this particular boat was purchased factory direct as Surf Fresh was going to become a dealer) I would like to offer any help to him or his client (I have been a Supreme dealer for about ten years now).

With that being said I have retailed well over 100 Supreme Boats and have had nothing of this kind of trouble and to be quite honest the brand has been relatively trouble free for all these years. If there was an issue with a boat, the factory always took care of it immediately - whether the factory was Fineline, or Int Inboard (formerly Calabria). Supreme switched to International Inboard to have better control over their production and QC - along with having the boats being hand laid up - rather than just sprayed out with a chopper gun (Fineline).

In regards to the v226 - it is an amazing Surf Boat - I don't think anybody will argue that fact, and within the last year I have retailed five of them and the only problem out of all five is that the snap out carpet didn't line up very well. This was an issue from Syntec and was handled almost instantly.

All I can throw in this situation is my own experience - I have personally owned three of these boats (v220, v232, v226) with a combined total of about 800 hours and they were all great boats. I am sorry to hear about all of the trouble Drew has had.

Drew - give me a call and lets see what's going on.

slipknot 01-17-2012 12:49 PM

Ouch

surffresh 01-17-2012 12:56 PM

@ Robert T, it's more of an exposure of what they are capable of producing / delivering and not standing behind, I am a big boy, my loss was the buyers gain. I feel confident that I found and fixed every ( I can only hope ) problem and the boat does throw one great surf wake and that's what the buyer wanted at 15k less than any other 2011 V226 out there.

surffresh 01-17-2012 1:46 PM

2 Attachment(s)
this is silly but it is what it is.....so the boat came with a high altitude prop because Supreme thought it was needed, one day I was looking up under and noticed prop burn and called Karl. He said I will swap out props and send some gel, a few weeks went by and I called him back, he said I can not send the gel because of EPA, OK fine what's the make and color number ? I'll get back to you, can you send the prop? Oh sure I will do it before I leave town, fine thanks Karl I just do not want to be without a prop, OK bye....and he was right, he meant bye, never answered his phone again, email or cell phone or even text messages, nothing

timmyb 01-17-2012 1:48 PM

I feel bad for the new owner of the boat...:eek:

ixfe 01-17-2012 2:02 PM

Subscribed!

http://eu.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/ih...hing-movie.jpg

jarrod 01-17-2012 2:48 PM

"Not nocking any one but It could happen to any boat brand. "

Nah....a few cracks in the gel coat can happen to any brand. The side of the boat peeling off doesn't just happen.

johnny_defacto 01-17-2012 3:45 PM

never seen prop burn, how close to the hull is the prop blade when a blade is Top Dead Center? I am assuming it has to be within an inch in order to do this in under 80 hours.

tdc_worm 01-17-2012 3:50 PM

prop burn can also happen from running in shallow water, kicking sand into the gel coat.

surffresh 01-17-2012 4:14 PM

but we only surf, and anyone that surfs knows that you only run in 10 plus feet of water, I have my courses set depending on wind conditions and our 600 acre lake averages 25ft, Karl told the buyer that also...what a grasp for straws, google "The Butler Chain of Lakes, Windermere FL" Lake Down to be presice

surffresh 01-17-2012 4:16 PM

@ Johnny , yes it's real close, under an inch and that's the problem, not sand

bruizza 01-17-2012 4:24 PM

That is some hot garbage that the gel coat broke like that!

SkySki 01-17-2012 4:32 PM

This boat must have been made on Fridays with "extra" parts and materials left over from other boats. Personally, I would have had my insurance company involved from the get go and I surely would have backed out of that boat the second that gel coat tore off. Too late now and hind sight is 20/20.

surffresh 01-17-2012 4:45 PM

For the record, the cracked up first pic is not Bob, and it did not fall off of the boat. It is only the paint spray that did not adhear to the mold, after that phase glass is layed into or inside of the gel paint. The boat is not going to break in half or anything like that, it's built from the outside in and that paint pic is the first step so they had to start all over, the guys face says it all, this is funny right?

buffalow 01-17-2012 6:00 PM

Reminds me of a great old tune - Johnny Cash's - Cadillac Song (One piece at a time). if you have not heard it - Hit up the youtube and it will crack you up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNU9nNY-v0g


-Sorry Drew - I had similar problems with my '96 Tige - They ended up completing rebuilding the boat thanks to Frank Cope and Charlie Pigeon working out a deal back in the day.

fullspeed 01-17-2012 6:03 PM

Drew, sorry for a question away from the thread topic, but do you like your new MB Tomcat and have you had any issues with that boat? I know you are a MB dealer and it might be a conflict of interest to tell us, but I was wondering. Also is the picture is that a surf wake from the MB or the Supreme? That wake is massive.

Drew I am confused with the part that you say "using the boat as a demo / promotion and when I sold it, it would be sold as new and warrantees would start at that time."
That sentence right there is weird to me. In the car business a demo is used for just a short time and under a certain about of time and when sold it is discounted greatly to the person buying it. Full warranty of coarse. Not sold as new and a demo boat to me is like a rental car, you just don't buy them.

As a dealer, I think your first sign would of been the swim platform. Getting a boat that is being made for a dealer's personal boat to demo and it arrives with an uneven swim deck, not a good impression at all. Just imagine what a normal customers boat arrives looking like. lol

surffresh 01-17-2012 7:12 PM

@ B fullspeed, not sure what pic you are speaking of, my profile on here? if so that was my Centurion Avalanche, nice surf boat. I have always been and pride myself as a straight up guy and I have no problem answering your Q's. I have had a few MB's (6) this year and have nothing to say but great things, surf wake also. About your sentence Q, when I bought the boat knowing that the economy was not great and the brand had never been sold in FL and that I could not just let it sit and not surf, show it, film it, demo it, etc. I asked the question how many hours can I put on it and still sell it with new warranties? The answer was not much over 100hours. It actually took me a couple weeks to see the platform because we had it in a boat house on a lift, (something else Karl says ruins the boat and is the same bunks as the trailer go figure) and either in the water or driving or weighted for surfing you just would not notice it. After I did notice it, the screw hole, the air void, the carpet that Travis mentioned, and some other stuff, I begged them to take it back, at one time Karl said he would after he spoke with his contracter that built it, I will referb everything through the factory and either help you sell it or return it to you, and when I followed up and asked how are we getting it to your factory, he said, Oh would'nt that be nice, use the boat and send it back, you don't want to know what I said :)

fullspeed 01-17-2012 7:38 PM

Yeah your profile picture. That wake is huge.

Giddyup 01-17-2012 7:55 PM

wow this is not good, i just bought a non current calabria this summer, i contacted the factory and they answered my questions and i even got two follow up calls to see that i was contacted and everything was answered, i hope things work out

simplej 01-17-2012 8:01 PM

huh? i cant follow. just more pics please!

durty_curt 01-17-2012 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullspeed (Post 1726371)
Yeah your profile picture. That wake is huge.

Yeah thing is beach'n! Nice inland surfer! Looks like the one I used today.
I still can't believe the feud between factory and dealer! I always thought these two got along... For the most part

surffresh 01-18-2012 4:34 AM

@ Mark, Calibria has nothing to do with it

surffresh 01-18-2012 5:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)
updated surf wake pic of my new ride, 2012 MB B52 23V, if you guys like the old pic

Jeff 01-18-2012 5:31 AM

Wow! That's a nice wave.

cwb4me 01-18-2012 5:48 AM

Huge wave!!!!! Looks great.:D

brett33 01-18-2012 5:50 AM

Damn! That's a beefy wave bro!

tonyv420 01-18-2012 10:07 AM

MB B52 23V is the shiznit!! Nice wave!!

22vdrive 01-18-2012 10:55 AM

Surffresh I know this is off topic but how are you weighting your mb to make that massive wave?

jeff_mn 01-18-2012 12:52 PM

And in classic Wakeworld fashion..



Now it's an MB thread

chattwake 01-18-2012 12:55 PM

Bwaaahahahahaha

loudontn 01-18-2012 1:18 PM

It's really quite remarkable hahaha

chattwake 01-18-2012 1:54 PM

And when a picture of that damn tige gets posted up the circle will be complete!

tampawake 01-18-2012 1:57 PM

I remember when everyone would bitch that WW was all BU.

jeff_mn 01-18-2012 2:03 PM

It's actually quite a nice spin by Drew..

First he bashes the competition, then he "levels" with everyone that his Centurion was pretty good and then he very subtly posts a massive wave from the boat he now sells..

Excellent execution... ;-)

simplej 01-18-2012 2:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1726518)
And when a picture of that damn tige gets posted up the circle will be complete!

We need to be reminded that we are all inferior first.

johnny_defacto 01-18-2012 2:28 PM

Dave williams, can u please edit this threads title to read "supreme warning! And MB boats are the best thing ever"

Thanks

surffresh 01-18-2012 2:46 PM

Why thank you Jeff, na really I just like sharing wave pics and I had forgotten that my profile was the old Avy surf wake, had no intention to turn the thread over to_ _ . I promissed the power at Supreme that I was going to do this and the time came. If what they produced and delivered to me, broken promisses, ran away from etc. is bashing, then they bashed theirself, I just wanted to fufil the promiss and shed a little light for all of you wake guys. Thanks to those of you for the nice words, PMs, emails, and some calls, a couple not so much, but it's all good. Peace out people, I'm gonna chill for a while :)

Guitarcrazy 01-18-2012 4:32 PM

Let's make them even more happy! Has anyone compared the surf wake of the Epic 21 or 23 to the MB? I'd like to see a pic of a slammed Epic surf wake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by surffresh (Post 1726535)
Why thank you Jeff, na really I just like sharing wave pics and I had forgotten that my profile was the old Avy surf wake, had no intention to turn the thread over to_ _ . I promissed the power at Supreme that I was going to do this and the time came. If what they produced and delivered to me, broken promisses, ran away from etc. is bashing, then they bashed theirself, I just wanted to fufil the promiss and shed a little light for all of you wake guys. Thanks to those of you for the nice words, PMs, emails, and some calls, a couple not so much, but it's all good. Peace out people, I'm gonna chill for a while :)


cwb4me 01-18-2012 5:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1726518)
And when a picture of that damn tige gets posted up the circle will be complete!

I would say the circle won't be complete till you sell your boat for about what you paid for it.;)Remember you are the man!If anyone doubts me they can ask Chatt almighty!:D Of course everyone knows i'm just joking.That's what i do.The laughs on you.;)

Bumpass1 01-18-2012 6:13 PM

Can't we all just get along!! :rolleyes::D

stang_killa_ss 01-18-2012 7:42 PM

prop burn? could someone elaborate?

dbdan 01-18-2012 7:53 PM

@ Drew - FYI, Bob OWNS International Inboards and Fineline! International Inboard/Fineline makes Supremes & Calabrias (well, they used to make Calabrias) in the same factory in Merced.

I bought a 2010 Calabria Team V in June of 2009 (and still haven't received my Bimini that was bought and paid for...) and they had just started making the Supreme V226 when I picked up my boat. I lived and worked several minutes from the factory and have been there many times, mostly trying to get the bimini that is still owed me...

But you are correct that that is not Bob in the picture.

HA! I just saw on another post Fineline is for sale!!! I guess I can finally give up all hope that I'll ever see my bimini! What a scammer...

krbaugh 01-18-2012 8:28 PM

Please don't post information that is not true "Bob" absolutely positively without a doubt does not own and never has owned Fineline. Fineline is not for sale!!!!! Fineline has never built Calabrias. Fine line did contract build Supremes a few years back but has nothing to do with them now!!

dbdan 01-18-2012 8:40 PM

Correct, my mistake. I read that post and my blood pressure went through the roof...Bob has been stringing me along for two years and has made so many promises can't even count. So I read the first post in that thread and immediately thought Fineline was another "doing business as" type of name such as International Inboards. International Inboards makes Calabrias & Supremes.

That being said, Bob does own International Inboards AND he still owes me a bimini that I will never see.

saberworks 01-18-2012 11:05 PM

File a suit in small claims court and get the value + costs. Then use the $ to have one custom made.

ScottR 01-19-2012 7:10 AM

This thread is one of the more comical threads I have even read. I was interested then I wasn't then I was and now again I am not... how can one thread do that to a person....??

durty_curt 01-19-2012 7:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottR (Post 1726598)
This thread is one of the more comical threads I have even read. I was interested then I wasn't then I was and now again I am not... how can one thread do that to a person....??

The pictures may be what are attracting you to the thread.

rbeckei 01-19-2012 9:07 AM

PEOPLE >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The other post about Fineline is a dealer ship in CANADA. It is the Dealer ship that is being sold. Look at the wedsite.

polarbill 01-19-2012 9:13 AM

Isn't Supreme somehow Karl Koster's present to his daughter? I though it was her company or she was running it or something? Didnt' fineline(the boat manufacturer) use to build Centurion's and Supremes? The Calabria factory is building Supreme's now aren't they?

Hasn't Karl somehow had his hand in a lot of hte west coast brands. Didn't Karl(Kal Kustoms) own Supreme, Blue water, Reinell? Wasn't Karl the exclusive west coast distributor for Centurion and Sanger as well? Was he ever the/a distributor for Merccruiser? Did he own or distribute V/M trailers as well? I am assuming he is close to out of all this business now as Centurion and Sanger are both distributed on their own and Centurion went to PCM and Sanger to Indmar. Is there a different name for Calabria's factory or parent company? There is just way too much intertwined relationships with a lot of the west coast boat builders to keep straight.

cwb4me 01-19-2012 10:19 AM

The plot thickens!;)

01-19-2012 10:51 AM

Two Words! - Correct Craft!

krbaugh 01-19-2012 11:01 AM

"Didnt' fineline(the boat manufacturer) use to build Centurion's and Supremes? "

Centurion is Fineline brand still builds Centurions when Fineline and Kal Kustom parted ways Fineline no longer built Supremes

"The Calabria factory is building Supreme's now aren't they?"
Yes as far as I know this is true

"There is just way too much intertwined relationships with a lot of the west coast boat builders to keep straight. "
thats a fact!!

ReSession 01-26-2012 5:30 AM

Drew, maybe you bought a lemon? I only have 50 hours on my V226, and I don't have 1 complaint except the fact it's locked in a Vermont garage until the end of April!

Curious to know how many OTHER V226 owners out there have experienced ANY of these types of issues?

joeshmoe 01-26-2012 6:18 PM

"50 hours on my V226, and I don't have 1 complaint"
go 1050 and see if there are any complaints, I'll stick with my bu!

kybool 01-26-2012 7:17 PM

Well aren't you cool, you trying to date someone on this site?

ReSession 01-26-2012 7:18 PM

Sure, maybe I've only owned it a few months and it has low hours but I'm asking other V226 owners if they've had any similar instances of chunks of gel coat falling off, prop burn, screws coming up through the floorboards or crooked swim platforms installed? Sounds like Drew's boat was one of the first made while the country was experiencing a recession (which could be equated to shoddy craftsmanship by builders who questioned the future of their employer?).

You also seem to have mistaken me for someone that owns a boat past the manufacturer warranty, let alone 7 years (which would be the length I'd have to own it at a MAX of 150 hours a year to get to 1050 hours, due to the short season in VT). My 2007 V220 had under 300 hours when I traded it in (which I bought new in 2009), and I'll likely run this V226 through 2013 with the same amount of hours, then trade it in on something new and start all over again.

BUT, it sounds like you love your BU and that's rad! Enjoy it!

brett564 01-26-2012 7:26 PM

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrnnnnnnnn....

kybool 01-26-2012 8:17 PM

Greg is my new hero

saberworks 01-26-2012 8:57 PM

In any case, I believe this thread is not only about the shoddy boat he ended up with, but also the seemingly complete lack of customer service from the manufacturer.

kybool 01-27-2012 6:01 AM

I am not one to be a big MasterCraft advocate, especially lately, but when we bought our boat it was missing the swimmdeck, bimini, users guide and a couple small things here and there. Everything was delivered to our house and installed by the dealer in our driveway within a week of purchase.

Sounds like Supreme needs to understand that a good referral to future boat owners is worth more than a stupid Bimini.

docdrs 01-29-2012 8:48 PM

So let me get this straight. The first pic is not of your boat now, but just something that can occur during a build. (they had to start over). What year is this boat and how old was it when it was sold? They paid to fix most everything (the platform alignment) but not the prop burn after how many hours?. Who put the prop on the boat? Most boats I see are shipped to the dealer without the prop installed (part of dealer prep). Maybe not this boat? Are these boats not warranted for 1 year? If you bought it as a demo boat as a dealer you probably got it for a good $ which it seems was passed along to the new owner. It sure did get lots of promo hours, did you make any sales from it? 100 hours is not a new boat , and I wonder if its more than a year old. Still waiting for the screws thru the floor and thru the gel coat. Just seems there is more to this story than has been posted. If this was a boat I bought I sure would not want to see these pics unless it was previously disclosed to me.


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