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h2oskier14 01-04-2012 4:38 PM

Boat Shopping
First off I don't want this to turn into a brand bashing thread, I just want some opinions to help me make a decision. I recently sold my 2001 Tige 21i Direct Drive boat and I'm currently in the market for a new boat. I have currently narrowed my search down to the following 2 boats.

2011 Axis A22 Vandall Edition:
The boat is tricked out and has everything I want including the big 400hp motor,full wet sounds stereo, and over 3,000lbs of ballast.


2011 Tige RZ2
This boat is pretty loaded as well but doesn't have the big motor, a custom stereo, and only has 1,600lbs of ballast but is only 300 miles away. I also really enjoyed my last Tige. I'm going to look at this boat next week.


I do live at elevation and typically go to lakes between 3,500' and 7,000' above sea level. The group I go out with primarily surfs and every once and a while we will wake board. Both boats are a great deal and overall pretty close in price. Please let me know what you would suggest and again I don't want this to turn into a brand bashing.

PS. I'm not interested in the MB...

01-04-2012 5:05 PM

Thats axis is nuts!! Cant ever say Ive seen one in person but damn that thing is sharp! I know not much help haha

nautiquesonly 01-04-2012 5:17 PM

I like the look of the new tiges and the fact that they have a pcm power plant. I would give the nod to the axis in this case just based on motor alone and your running at high altitude. That looks like chattwakes axis to me and he Macs his rides out. I will also say I spent some time riding and driving a new axis with the Corvette engine and was VERY impressed with the wake and the performance. We are not at altitude but we had 5k in ballast and 6 adults in the boat and it was great out of the hole. The wake was insane and I would have to say one of my favorites so far. The axis planed out and locked on speed in 10 seconds flat with all that weight and in handled great.I have always had nautiques and the reliability of pcm engines were great. I have lots of friends with MC and BU and the indmars seemed a little more problematic. It may be coincidence or the way they cared for their engines. I don't really think you can go wrong with either brand just get the bigger engine at your altitude.

simplej 01-04-2012 5:26 PM

Tige if youre surfing. You can have 4k of ballast in the thing within an hour and will have a sweet surf wake if thats what youre gunna do. They both look sweet and if your focus is surfing the 409 isnt necessary at all

johnny_defacto 01-04-2012 5:58 PM

that does look like chats boat, and i know he has the new surf swim platform so the surf wave is good. he takes great care of his boats, custom wheels, big motor, properly propped, dialed wakeboard wake and surf waves, z5 cargo bimini, tower mirror, 1100s in rear lockers, all the goodies, great stereo, traction pads on top deck, chillax seats, and looks so sick all black. since u say they are close in price, hands down the axis. its turn key ready to go. no adding sacks or repropping or playing around with weight configs...or redoing stereo.....

Bumpass1 01-04-2012 6:32 PM

Chattwake has plenty of pictures posted though out the site of his Axis. All of the pictures I've seen, the wakeboard wake and the surf wake is mackin'. There is another guy that I have met that has an '11 RZ2. I have seen the boat personally and it is beautiful in person. I agree with going with Chattwake's Axis due to the motor and you running at Imile high.

elc 01-04-2012 6:35 PM

Since you are at a higher altitude you will regret not going with the bigger engine. There are a couple guys on here with an Axis (with the 400hp engine) that ride at a similar altitude. Hopefully they will chime in.

h2oskier14 01-04-2012 7:03 PM

I have a friend with a 2007 Tige and the 340hp motor, it does ok and I can count the amount of times on one hand we haven't been able to plane out in the last 3 years. I did forget to mention the 2011 does have the 343hp motor not the real small one.

cwb4me 01-04-2012 7:56 PM

I have a 2011 RZ2 with 2000lbs of ballast.It's great for wakeboarding,but you'll need at least 2 extra peeps or 400lb bag on the surf side for a mackin wake.If you go to Tigeowners .com there are plenty of owners in colorado with the 343hp.All they do is reprop if they are going to Really weight down the boat.The Axis is also a nice boat as i'm sure Chatt will tell you.In the end you have to make the decision.I would guess the Tige listed for at least 20,000 more new than the Axis.A top notch stereo can be had for around 3000 or less if you do the work yourself.Both boats are versatile and solid.Demo them and see which one you like best.Without knowing what close in price is[2000 diff in price or 5000 diff in price]it's hard to say which is a better deal.The Axis is the best model they make,the Tige we need to know what loaded is?Hope this helps and good luck.

bruizza 01-04-2012 8:35 PM

Go with the Axis especially at altitude. I live in Denver and we have a 2010 A22 with the big engine. The big engine is a must at altitude. Add in the upgraded stereo and the fact that it's Chatt's boat and it's a no brainier.

cwb4me 01-04-2012 8:40 PM

The Tige only has 70 hours.How many hours does Chatts boat have?That is one of many questions i would ask.

ixfe 01-05-2012 1:50 AM

Easy decision...

You said yourself that surfing is your primary activity. Well, the Axis was built to be a core wakeboard boat. Sure, you can surf it just as you can surf any other v-drive. But the RZ2 is arguable the best surf machine on the market. Spend a little time over on the surf forum and you'll see what I mean. And from what I've seen, the RZ2 has a great wakeboard wake too.

Here is a pic of what the RZ2 is capable of...


The other reason I'd take the Tige, is sometimes one of the most important (but most overlooked) factor in boat selection... the interior. You spend most of your time here. Compare for yourself. It's not even close. Axis is bare bones while Tige is more lavish.



Oh yeah... and PCM motors rule :D

loudontn 01-05-2012 4:43 AM

I know Chatt takes care of his gear, so I suppose that's an advantage over the RZ2 in that most of this community will vouch for that. Sick looking boat.

I do love how those RZ2's look.

colosurfer 01-05-2012 7:11 AM

Jeb, Have you checked out the 2011 RZ2 @ WWS in Denver? You can get a great deal on this boat! They would like to see it gone before the boat show next week. They have a few interested parties out of state but I know he would rather do a local deal. The added benefit for you would be their 3YR Tige Maintenance program. You dont get that on a used boat for it doesnt transfer to the new owner.


Brett_B 01-05-2012 7:35 AM

That Tige will likely have a better surf wake and a more plush interior. This Axis interior is much more bare bones. The Axis surf wake is much better with the new swim platform (that Chatt’s boat has) but may still not be as good as the Tige with similar weight. The Axis will get on plane with weight quicker and will have a ridiculous wakeboard wake that will be hard to top by many boats out there including this Tige, especially when considering it can be done by just flipping 4 switches with all of the ballast plumbed in under the seats.

polarbill 01-05-2012 8:10 AM

I would do the RZ2 if they are equipped similar and in similar shape. The taps should help getting on plane at high elevation some. The boat is just way more plush, finished, etc... The cockpit appears to be quite a bit bigger as well. From what the Tige website says you should easily be able to piggy back an addition 500-750 pound sack in each of the rear vdrive compartments. This upgrade would be relatively cheap I am guessing. Probably $300 for sacks and then a few bucks for some extra hose and fittings. That would help with the surf wake quite a bit. I would guess that the stock 1600 is pletny for 95% of wakeboarders out there.

h2oskier14 01-05-2012 8:55 AM

Eric, I have seen and looked at the '11 at WWS problem is it is still a very expensive boat compared to the price of these two 2011's. The Tige has 70 hours and the Axis has 82 hours on it. The Tige is in good shape but does show some wear from the season. I'm sure the Axis is in a little better shape due to it being Chatt's boat....

chattwake 01-05-2012 10:40 AM

What I told Jeb is essentially what everyone else here confirmed. The Tige will be an awesome boat for surfing. The A22 - setup the way I have it - produces the best wakeboarding wake I've ever ridden. When I say "best", I understand it's all personal preference, but I include in that term the fact that the wake is easy to replicate every time I ride, maintains its shape at different levels of ballast, and is not tempermental at all. I don't have a ton of personal experience with the newer Tige wakes, so I can't comment on those.

The Tige does have a very nice and attractive interior, as well as lots of creature comforts. The A22 interior is still pretty nice though, and will be fairly inexpensive to maintain over time due to its simplicity. My boat does have underwater lights, docking lights, a heater, stainless cupholders, a transom remote, etc., so it's not like mine's stripped of creature comforts. The new platform does help out the A22's surf wave alot, but I have not gotten a wave out of my boat like the one pictured above thrown by a tige. I do find the surf wave behind my boat to be more than satisfactory, but I focus on wakeboarding more than surfing. I also love the Raptor 400. It's got tons of power, and gets the boat out of the hole even if it has a lot of weight in it.

I don't know what Jeb's dealer network is like, but it is important for him to have someone close that he can work with to get nick nacks fixed as he uses whatever boat he buys. If he has a better tige dealer closer, that's a big factor favoring the tige. Both boats being only a season old, I'm sure they are both in great shape. As some have mentioned, I do take care of my stuff. Sure, my boat there's a blemish here or there , but there are no tears in the vinyl, big scratches on the gel, or anything like that. I've used Boat Bling's stuff to maintain my boat this year, and I've been really pleased. It's too bad Jeb lives so far from me (Colorado vs. Tennessee). It would be much easier for both of us if we were closer to truly compare the conditions of both boats.

For Jeb, he just needs to figure out what he wants to use his boat for, what he's going to do when his boat needs work, where he's going to be financially in a few years if he decides to trade boats again, what costs he's going to have to anticipate for repair/maintenance with both boats, whether he wants a solid black boat, whether he needs the big motor option, whether he wants a different stereo setup than what mine comes with, etc.

I'm confident that my boat will sell sometime in the next few months in the mid to low 50's, especially when boatshow season gets cranked up (the big motor option for '12 went up several grand for the A22). Keep the feedback coming guys, because I really hope Jeb makes the right choice for him. If he buys a boat other than mine, and it fits his needs and situation better than my A22, that's absolutely fine with me. At the end of the day, I want my boat to end up in the hands of someone who buys it for the right reasons, so they will appreciate it as much as I have.

TheWakeGuy 01-05-2012 10:45 AM

I'd go with the Axis! The A22 has got a lot of bang for your buck and it is one of the cleanest looking boats on the market. As the Vandall would say "West Side Riderz 4 Life"

chattwake 01-05-2012 10:49 AM

3 Attachment(s)
In fairness, here are a few better shots of the interior of my boat for comparison's sake.

h2oskier14 01-05-2012 10:59 AM

Chatt, I appreciate your feedback and that you want me to have the boat that fits me best even if it's not yours. As far as dealers I have two great dealers in my area. WWS and Tommy's are both in Denver which is 160 miles from me. I would hope with either boat the only time it's in the shop is for routine maintenance.

simplej 01-05-2012 11:07 AM

Well just to add another thing to the mix TIGE has a strong warranty on all their little trinkets which isn't anything other than 1 screen which is covered for 5 years... And as far as I know that transfers, the 3 years of service free might transfer too...

cwb4me 01-05-2012 11:16 AM

Chatt said it best.It's what Jeb is really looking to do with his boat and how convenient it is to get it serviced.

bruizza 01-05-2012 3:01 PM

Jeb nailed it both WWS and Tommy's are great dealers. Jeb if it wasnt winter I'd take you out In our A22. It has the same motor and ballast set up as Chatt's A22. The wakeboarding wake is amazing. Our surf wake isn't going to win any competitions but Chatt has the updated platform. We do not.

timmyb 01-05-2012 3:41 PM

The 343hp PCM is plenty of engine in the RZ2 even at our altitude. I have the Marine Power 340hp in mine and not once have I been like "man I wish I had more power". A PCM 343 in the RZ2 with the stock prop(Acme 537) will do either 45 or 47 mph up here. What will the Axis do with the big motor? WWS usually orders their inventory boats with the 343.

johnny_defacto 01-05-2012 4:09 PM

the tige interior is nicer quality for sure, but after having a standard wrap around seating arrangement on my tige, then going to the axis with the chillax seats in cab and bow plus the sliding rear seat, I will take the axis function over the tige form all day long.

But thats just me, is there anyway you can test drive both? there has got to be some ww's with those 2 boats relatively close by. it would be worth it to spend a couple days testing both boats so that you can decide whats best. picures are great, opinions are fine, but driving, surfing and riding are the only way to know that you made the right decision.

timmyb 01-05-2012 5:54 PM

Kind of tough to test drive one during the winter in Colorado, most of our lakes are frozen over and will remain that way until March/April.

johnny_defacto 01-05-2012 6:28 PM

yeah tim, i figured it would be difficult, but a days worth of travel to a usable lake to test a boat is worth it. He may hate the axis, or the tige, but will never know if he doesnt drive em and ride them. 50k is a lot to spend on a boat you have not driven or ridden behind.

h2oskier14 01-05-2012 6:33 PM

Johnny I have been on and driven a 2011 Axis with the 400 and a 2007 RZ2 with the 340. Both of them handled pretty similar, neither is going to handle like the boat I just sold. The wake board wake was definetaly a lot better on the axis but I probably only strapped into a wake board a dozen times this last year. The wakeboard wake on the Tige was hard to dial in with a lot of people on the boat but once set it was plenty for me. The surf wake on the axis pushed harder than the Tige but seemed like the only sweet spot was up close to the swim deck on the Axis. It's going to be a hard decision but I should have a better idea after looking at the Tige on Tuesday.

bruizza 01-05-2012 7:03 PM

Acme 1235 prop and we can run 43mph in the Axis at horsetooth. We also have 1100lb surf sacks in the back, 950 up front and the stock 900 plus wedge and it planes out. I don't see that happening with the 343. I could be totally wrong though.

cwb4me 01-05-2012 7:11 PM


Originally Posted by bruizza (Post 1724353)
Acme 1235 prop and we can run 43mph in the Axis at horsetooth. We also have 1100lb surf sacks in the back, 950 up front and the stock 900 plus wedge and it planes out. I don't see that happening with the 343. I could be totally wrong though.

It can happen easily with that "Gimmick" called TAPS with the convex V hull.Uses less fuel and has less drag while riding smoother and handling better.;)

h2oskier14 01-05-2012 7:15 PM

Bruizza, I just found out today that I'll be moving back to Fort Collins so no matter which boat I get we'll have to meet up at Horsetooth!!

bruizza 01-05-2012 7:31 PM

Like I said I could be totally wrong about the 343. I just know at 5k+ elevation you lose a lot of horsepower. I've seen plenty of boats out here struggle with 3k plus in ballast. Never been in a slammed Tige so I don't have much to base my assumption on.

Jeb we will definitely have to ride. We will be at horsetooth for the MHMG in early June.

cjh1669 01-06-2012 7:38 AM

You lose around 3% of HP per 1000 ft of alt. So with a 343hp engine you're actually talking a 292hp engine at 5000ft. Now at the lower speeds between 0and about 11 or 12 mph you aren't going to notice much of a difference in planing out between the 343 and the 400hp motor, but after that you will and those last few miles per hour between 12 and 15 are typically where you plane out when running heavy. I don't care what boat you have, 3000lbs of ballast isn't going to plane easy at this alt with either engine, but you will plane out faster with the larger engine and get better gas milage due to it working a little less hard to push the weight. If the tige has less drag while running heavy then you probably aren't getting as good a wake either, which I don't buy in the first place. Bill at WWS have spoken at length about this subject, and he agrees with me. Also the 537 prop is terrible at this alt when running heavy, yes you'lll have a faster top end with it, but these are wake boats, and who cares what the top end is? The 1235 is the least you need is you're going to run heavy at alt. With the 1235 on my VTX with the 340hp engine I run about 41 top end, and can get 3000lbs to plane out wiht some work and wieght up front. Also I think WWS and tige is rethinking how they do things seeing that the Z3 they ordered has the upgraded engine and they are currently prop testing.

andrewjet 01-06-2012 7:45 AM

You had me at the 1st picture. Enough said. : ))

Man thats one nice boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cjh1669 01-06-2012 7:50 AM


Originally Posted by andrewjet (Post 1724417)
You had me at the 1st picture. Enough said. : ))

Man thats one nice boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tige's throw up one bad ass surf wake, they are nice inside and very well built. Just the price difference between the axis and Rz2 is pretty large. Axis has a better wakeboard wake, Rz2 better surf wake

timmyb 01-06-2012 8:33 AM

Speaking from first hand experience, you do NOT need more than the 343 at our altitude for surfing with the RZ2. I only have the 340hp marine power in my '07 RZ2 which has less HP and torque than the the PCM 343 and run an 1,100lb surf sac and then 2 of the v-drive sacs and I still have the acme 537. If you are going to run 3,000lbs of wakeboard ballast, yeah you will probably want the bigger engine but as Jeb has said, he doesn't wakeboard that much and he probably isn't going to load it down with 3k either. As for me, I don't load up my RZ2 for wakeboarding, when I want to hit a big wake I ride behind my friend's Epic that has the 496 in it.

cjh1669 01-06-2012 8:43 AM


Originally Posted by timmyb (Post 1724433)
Speaking from first hand experience, you do NOT need more than the 343 at our altitude for surfing with the RZ2. I only have the 340hp marine power in my '07 RZ2 which has less HP and torque than the the PCM 343 and run an 1,100lb surf sac and then 2 of the v-drive sacs and I still have the acme 537. If you are going to run 3,000lbs of wakeboard ballast, yeah you will probably want the bigger engine but as Jeb has said, he doesn't wakeboard that much and he probably isn't going to load it down with 3k either. As for me, I don't load up my RZ2 for wakeboarding, when I want to hit a big wake I ride behind my friend's Epic that has the 496 in it.

THat's true you don't need more than a 343 for surfing, like I said lower speeds you aren't going to notice the difference, and you don't really need to plane out for surfing. If you want to get a good wakeboard wake, and my exp with Tige is that the newer hulls don't have good wkaeboard wake when not weighted, you need a larger engine and better prop

My school of thought is that it's beeter to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it

chattwake 01-06-2012 9:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's a picture of McCall testing out the new surf platform that I have behind the A22. Obviously, the new platform helps the A22's wave.

logan 01-06-2012 9:27 AM

from the experience I have had in each boat I would recommend the Axis. I have 2003 SAN at the moment and when I decide to pull the trigger on a new rig I will be going straight to an Axis dealer. Just my two cents.

h2oskier14 01-06-2012 10:51 AM

Chris, the price difference between the two boats is less than a couple thousand dollars so I have not even considered that in my decision.

cwb4me 01-06-2012 12:08 PM


Originally Posted by andrewjet (Post 1724417)
You had me at the 1st picture. Enough said. : ))

Man thats one nice boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The you should buy it.It's still for sale i think.;)

tampawake 01-06-2012 12:17 PM

How tall are you? I really like the freeboard and seat height in the Tige. One of my favorite things about being in that boat. Feel like your in my living room relaxing. The seats look a bit closer to the floor on the Axis. Both are great and love them both. Good luck with your decision.

cjh1669 01-06-2012 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by h2oskier14 (Post 1724470)
Chris, the price difference between the two boats is less than a couple thousand dollars so I have not even considered that in my decision.

What year is each? RZ2s are typically about 15 to 20k more than a comprable axis a22 year wise.

I agree on the freeboard comment, there isn't a wake boat out there with more freeboard than a tige

bruizza 01-06-2012 12:37 PM

Chris I know you had a few beers at lunch but he clearly states in his OP they are both 2011s.

h2oskier14 01-06-2012 1:15 PM

Chris, both boats are 2011's with similar hours. The Axis is a good deal but the Tige is a great deal!!

cjh1669 01-06-2012 1:17 PM

Yeah the tige is a great deal, axis and tige similar price it's hard not to go Rz4, just on resale alone. I can't find a RZ4 under 60k for a 2011

Shut up Brian :)

chattwake 01-06-2012 3:06 PM

(Chris, he's considering an Rz2, not an Rz4... :) )

h2oskier14 01-06-2012 3:14 PM

I think Bruizza is right, Chris must be drinking!!

cjh1669 01-06-2012 3:34 PM


Originally Posted by h2oskier14 (Post 1724547)
I think Bruizza is right, Chris must be drinking!!

That was just a mistype, but the statement still stands, I'm not seeing any 2011 RZ2's bellow 60k. If you're getting it for the same price as a 2011 axis, which I'm guessing is in the low 50's, then you will be walking away well under what it's worth on the market and could resell it after the summer and make money if you so chose to do so.

If it was an Rz4 you'd be almost 20k under the going rate :)

cjh1669 01-06-2012 3:40 PM

Hell, the more I look you can't find a 2010 for less than 60k on an rz2.

surffresh 01-07-2012 1:42 PM

Last spring a 2010 left over ( because 2011's were out for a while ) sold for 64 without a trailer in Orlando, not sure what was on it.

simplej 01-07-2012 9:21 PM

A left over loaded 2010 was starting at 64999 at te boat show last year... Probably went for 60ish an it had a trailer

ScottR 01-09-2012 8:36 AM

Jeb, how do you go wrong with either of those! I love the axis that Chatt has....the other boat is just plain cool to look at. I think you just can't go wrong here. I don't know the numbers you are dealing with but if you feel good about the deal you are getting either way, then smile all the way to the lake once you decide. Hope you love which ever you pick. (I would go with the axis, but I am partial to black..lol...not that color should matter, but sick boat)

timmyb 01-09-2012 11:08 AM

I would look at resale value too. I bet in 5 years that the RZ2 is worth quite a bit more than the Axis. You are getting in on the very low side for an RZ2 but the high side for the Axis. The other consideration on the RZ2 is look at how many used RZ2's there are in Denver/Colorado right now... 0! That means you can get a premium price on your resale. I realize that there aren't any Axis boats for sale right now either but those boats have a lower cost of entry and I doubt it will still be worth $45k-$50k in 5 years whereas the RZ2 almost certainly will be in our market.

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