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-   -   System2 vs ERC vs Lil Bro vs BackYard System vs GoRide (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791089)

Cisco 12-09-2011 12:45 AM

System2 vs ERC vs Lil Bro vs BackYard System vs GoRide
 
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/504/girls.JPG

I will always love riding boat, but it's hard to ignore the benefits of a linear cable. Aside from needing a large property, a linear cable is typically cheaper to buy and cheaper to run than a wakeboard boat. You also need way less space and automatic functions are available to eliminate human driving errors.

Which linear cable is the best?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Lil Bro is not even a contender in this debate. My buddies were told to stop doing air tricks because it could damage the Lil Bro and the operator said it was designed for that.

http://www.rixen-seilbahnen.de/engli...ttle-bro-.html



Aside from the structures used to support the motors, the other four linear cables seem pretty much the same.

System2 uses a design similar to two ladders.
http://sesitec.de/index.php?id=32&L=1


ERC uses a frame like electric power lines.
http://endlessridecable.com/products.html


Backyard System uses a thick metal pole.
http://backyardsystem.ca/system-function

GoRide uses wooded poles in the ground.
http://www.gorideaustralia.com/



So when you are up and riding, are they all the same?

sdahockey21 12-11-2011 3:55 AM

One more!

CableBahn - www.cablebahn.com

Dave, I am pretty sure this doesn't violate any wakeworld policies, but please let me know if I have crossed the line in any way!

I will go ahead and take this time to introduce myself, my name is Sam Adams and I was recently brought on board to help with the development of a new straight-line cable system manufactured in the United States called CableBahn. The CableBahn system was designed in Germany and then brought to the United States for manufacturing. The system utilizes all United States components except for the physical running cable, which still comes from Germany. However, I am sure many of you are aware how critical and specific the running cable is.. It is simply not manufactured in the United States to the proper specifications.

The major differences between the CableBahn system and other systems on the market is..
-all aluminum tower construction
-hinging tower feet
-larger diameter running cable
-larger diameter pulley
-heavy duty industrial type components (bearings, coupling, pulley shaft, etc.)
-the system comes standard with a phase converter that allows operation from regular household 220v 2Phase Power
-digital operation display (allows operator to change turn-around points, max speed, and other functions without hooking up a computer)

Here is a short but recent video teaser for the system. Full video is in the works, should be ready by next week sometime!

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/31978322?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="600" height="338" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/31978322">CableBahn - The Intro</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/cablebahn">CableBahn</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

Thanks,
Sam Adams

deminimis 09-17-2012 11:54 AM

Any follow up here? We're looking at a piece of prop that really lends itself to a backyard cable system. The System 2.0 is the only one I've really researched. If anyone has any experience with the others, please shout out. Thanks.

gnarslayer 09-17-2012 7:33 PM

iv ridden the system 2, ERC, little bro and the cable bahn

I thought the ERC was the best of the 3. it felt alot more solid than the other 3.
the system2 and the cablebahn were about the same, pretty damn good, but the ERC was just so tight and had such a consistant pull
and the little bro is just a joke... definitely made for teaching little kids

deminimis 09-17-2012 7:43 PM

Thanks for the input.

razorjaw 09-19-2012 1:52 PM

I've ridden a few systems. The Go ride is IMO the best hands down. - You can change the tension in the cable in seconds! The pull is always constant and it could even handle a full a$$ to the water cut - most other systems slow down or struggle noticeably when I do that. I'd heard several parks in Europe have ordered Go rides and I believe there is someone looking to distribute them eventually in the US. The sesitec systems are my second pick, however the engineering in the go-ride and the tensioning system means I'll be putting one on my lake as soon as I get the nod from my wife ;)

ilboarder12 09-19-2012 2:56 PM

i've ridden the system 2 and maintain an ERC system at Mile High wake park. i have to agree with J.B. that the ERC is one of the better systems from the sound tower construction, industrial grade parts (pulleys, motor, etc.), consistent pulls, to a much tighter running cable. we've started riding doubles on the features, makes for some sweet shots on the box or off the kickers. this is something that would never be possible on a system 2.0 due to a tension kill switch which as it sounds kills the power if the tension on the running cable is over a certain limit. finally if a part is to break (which it will, trust me) you don't have to wait 4 months to get them shipped from germany, just a quick call to texas and have your park running again in a week.

skiboarder 09-20-2012 8:48 AM

+1 for ERC

lancestevens 10-10-2012 7:56 AM

I hope im not late on this. But would definitely like to share some facts on ERC.

ERC is the only cable fully designed and made in america using only american components. We made our own road designing a cable for durability, less maintenance, safety, and still easy on the wallet. Using a stronger motor (10hp) and VFD (20hp) allows us to run a thicker cable (3/8) which provides for the most consistent pull of any straightline cable to this day. With our revolutionary design of the hinging tower and chained anchors makes maintenance on the ERC system a breeze and ideal for events, promos, and permanent setups. One thing that really sets Endless above the rest is the rider innovation and we will never stop growing. Not to mention we take pride in having some of the best customer service on the scene today. Hope this helps and if you need any more info or consult please email me at, lstevens152@gmail.com.

Thank you,

Lance Stevens
Endlessridecable.com

jperkinsttu 10-10-2012 9:06 AM

Rode ERC up at Boardnation and the pull was a lot better than the 2.0 I've ridden at Hydrous. I'm far from an expert but could definitely tell a difference.

kamighazi 10-10-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnarslayer (Post 1783673)
iv ridden the system 2, ERC, little bro and the cable bahn

I thought the ERC was the best of the 3. it felt alot more solid than the other 3.
the system2 and the cablebahn were about the same, pretty damn good, but the ERC was just so tight and had such a consistant pull
and the little bro is just a joke... definitely made for teaching little kids

x2 -ridden all 3. ERC is a hard working beast

fusion134 05-20-2014 3:55 PM

Old post, but I guess I will revive it. I have a new linear cable on the market called The Wakeboard Cable. The only two systems I have ridden are mine and System 2.0. No one is here to hear a sales pitch, I think the two are pretty comparable. I really enjoyed riding the system 2.0, and mine as well. The way I see it is each system has a unique selling point.

System 2.0
Established in the market with the most in use in the world.
Brand recognition.
Portable(ish).
Non-stop ride.

ERC
USA made.
Apparently has great tension because of their weighting system.
Many of the same features as System 2.0

Go Ride
Several system in Australia. Great brand recognition in their home country
Sweet display.

The Wakeboard Cable www.thewakeboardcable.com http://www.facebook.com/thewakeboardcable
Similar options as other cables.
By far the lowest pricepoint at 8,000 USD
Easy tensioning with a torque wrench to desired tightness
Uses telephone pole so not quite as portable as system 2.0

stuey 05-21-2014 8:30 PM

David.. kudos for you to build and run your own personal cable. That's awesome and I hope you have a ton of fun on it with your friends.

However, the product on your website seems far from a finished product:

http://www.thewakeboardcable.com/photos/

You wouldn't actually sell this to Joe Blow to use to open a cable park would you? You've slapped together a bracket from scrap metal and threw it on a telephone pole with a belt driven motor. I don't see any lateral adjustment to align the pulleys, the running cable is held with some small cable clamps, your carrier lead looks like it starts with a cable that's held on with one clamp (and what appears to be the cable clamp on backwards), and there doesn't appear to be any safety stops or limiter switches installed. Something tells me you don't have an engineer stamping his approval on this design.

We all want to see the sport grow and an inexpensive cable would be great for that, however selling an unfinished product that is potentially unsafe is not going to be helpful. You say on your website that you would just ship it off UPS to somebody and expect them to install it then open it up to the general public to use? I hope your liability insurance is paid up.

Show me a FINISHED product, with custom manufactured pulleys, brackets, safety measures, a proven design, an engineers stamp as well as whatever CSA/UL/TUV approvals you need, and still sell that to me for $8k, I'll be the first one in line to get one.

fusion134 05-22-2014 5:59 AM

Stuey,

Great comments. You are right, the beta version is not the finished product. It sounds like you are aware of the costs involved in developing prototypes; the engineered design final product does have just a few changes from the prototype version including the tensioning adjustment. The current bracketing is set up for the tensioning system. The only difference in the bracketing for the final product is powdercoating vs sandblasting/painting.

The running cable is held on with cable clamps, be sure to look closer and notice that the clamps are not on backwards and there are two per carrier lead. there is extra cable held on one side for loosening and safety purposes.

There is not currently a safety limiting switch for running into either end, but I will be glad to add one at the request of the customer (it's pretty simple), but load peaks that fast will shut off the drive unit per safety features. The running cable is also equipped with a shear pin for a second safety, if the sheer pin breaks the extra tension line coil catches the cable so it doesn't come crashing down. Sheer pin damage and restringing the cable could occur, however. I ride a lot of boat and I wouldn't expect my boat to come with a mechanism to keep me from running into the shore.

We have not seen a need for lateral adjustment pulleys after a full year and a half of testing the prototype unit.

You are correct, we do use commercial off the shelf parts. This is how the cost can be reduced so substantially. Bracketing is not from scrap metal, but it is made from parts that can be purchased. We will never have custom manufactured pulleys or brackets. I'm not aware of any special electrical type requirement to connect a standard motor to a standard drive system with appropriate wiring harnesses.

You do bring up great points, my cable is not for everyone. For a boat reference, if you want the G23 of cable go with the System 2.0; it has all of the bells and whistles, if you want something with a similar feel for a lot less go with The Wakeboard Cable. It sounds like you have some experience with this sort of thing; if it weren't for engineering and insurance I would be able to offer this thing for even less. I am also assuming I will have a decent level of sales to spread those fixed costs.

-David

Cisco 05-22-2014 9:15 AM

David,

Your product looks great and your price is incredible. Since I created this thread, Cablebahn has disappeared and ERC has really dropped the ball on marketing. The Backyard/Teletrack System is not doing well either. I heard that the frame of System 2's can bend if you pull them too tight. I love me a tight cable. Do you expect the rigidity of utility poles to withstand more tension than the frame of System 2's?

BoKnows 05-22-2014 9:57 AM

I spent a good amount of time riding David's cable when I was living near him in college. I can definitely vouch for the legitimacy of his cable that he has developed. It has come so far from the first time we were testing it out to where it is now. Yeah, it's put together with parts and pieces that anyone can get their hands on, but it's the real deal. Very consistent pull, and more than stable enough to handle big air tricks. Doesn't get much better than that for $8,000.

fusion134 05-22-2014 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cisco (Post 1878234)
David,

Your product looks great and your price is incredible. Since I created this thread, Cablebahn has disappeared and ERC has really dropped the ball on marketing. The Backyard/Teletrack System is not doing well either. I heard that the frame of System 2's can bend if you pull them too tight. I love me a tight cable. Do you expect the rigidity of utility poles to withstand more tension than the frame of System 2's?

Cisco,

While the utility poles do provide some rigidity, most of the rigidity is from the 4 attached 4,200 lb break test support strands. It is definitely solid. the two center strands wrap around the utility pole at the point where the upper bracket attaches for extra stability just in case somehow there was enough pressure to split the pole.

The most ingenious part of the tensioning system, IMO, is the motorcycle axle inspired end wheel systems; I'm honestly not aware of what Sesitec uses, but my cable will stand a lot of pressure..

The v-belt pulley is pretty standard in thousands of industrial applications, it might not look as pretty as the gear reducer in competitor systems, but it saves a bundle. If it breaks (mine has a year and 1/2 of use and shows no signs of breaking) you are looking at a trip to Lowes and $25 bucks instead of ordering a several thousand dollar gear reducer.

My attitude is, just because something is accepted in an industry doesn't mean it is the only way to do it. I have all the respect in the world for the other cable systems, especially Go Ride and ERC. Starting a new business like this is hard, believe me, especially with a big, well respected player like Sesitec. I felt like the only way I would be able to compete would be to reach a lower pricepoint customer with a simpler product. I am very fortunate that my day job as a management consultant has allowed me to make a lot of connections in manufacturing. Component parts for the production unit are/will be built by manufacturers with decades of experience, not me and my stick welder. I have manufacturing lined up for the bracketing assembly, electrical and wiring harnesses, special purpose urethane carrier wheels (only special part), these wheels should perform better than industry standard, glass infused nylon. I handle final inspection, assembly, miscellaneous construction, shipping to the customer, and software.

I am really appreciative of the positive comments posted through the website. There are several promising leads out there that will hopefully put The Wakeboard Cable around the country soon.

Now that sounded a little like a sales pitch lol. I am open to having anyone come out and ride the cable. I know distance for most of you is prohibitive, but if you are ever in NC riding Hexagon or something send me a message and come try it out. I have had dozens of people ride and we always manage to have a good time.

terrybailey10 05-28-2014 6:58 PM

http://www.thewakeboardcable.com

DMead9 10-13-2014 7:21 PM

Dave this is a great idea at a great price. I actually think I've met you at hexagon wakepark before. I was wondering if there are any high level riders that will vouch for the consistency of the pull on the cable. It looked in the video to be rather shakey and jerky on kicker hits, i understand its only 8 grand and not an erc but it doesn't look much more consistant than a winch to me. Also is there anything stopping from just making my own cable with your design, besides common curticy.


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