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-   -   Best boat for Goofy/Starboard wake? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788848)

MuskokaJ 07-13-2011 3:50 PM

Best boat for Goofy/Starboard wake?
 
I'm curious to hear what is your opinion on the boat that throws the best goofy surf wake. I'm finding that a number of boats that throw a great wake on the Regular/Port side, but that the wake on the Goofy/Starboard side is washy at the lip. Any recommendations? Tige? Cent Enzo? Malibu? Mastercraft X__? And if you have any links to pics or vids to support your thoughts, that would be awesome. Thanks.

inland_surfer 07-13-2011 4:42 PM

We'll have the reverse rotation 240 Enzo at the Seattle NWWSA event here in two weeks. We also had it down in Parker AZ. for the Centurion photo shoot. Keenan is goofy and he rocket it ! Best Goofy wake I'v seen.

wakekat15 07-13-2011 5:01 PM

I have a SAN 210 that throws a great starboard surf wake. 800# in nose full belly/starboard factory + 750 in starboard rear compartment.

ragboy 07-13-2011 5:13 PM

You can go to this link and to the bottom and see video and pictures of 3 boats at the same event.

http://wake9.com/polar-bear-2010/

2011 Centurion Enzo 230
2010 Tige RZ2
2011 Supreme v226

The Tige and the supreme throw a great wake on both sides, the Enzo throws a great wake, that boat in the video/pics is a regular surf boat. To envision the right surf boat designed for best goofy wake, watch that video in a mirror. ;-)

All 3 great boats for wakesurfing and each have their fans and pros/cons and various price points. Some others to look at are:

Sanger v237
Sanger v215
Tige 24v
Centurion Avalanche
Tige 22ve

There are others, those came to the top of my head. Remember, its like standing in a room of guys with their sisters and asking each guy which is prettiest. Each have their favorites. ;-)

lakesurfer 07-13-2011 8:14 PM

Ragboy's list is solid, Drive as many as possible and find the one you like.

ragboy 07-13-2011 8:23 PM

Probably should add the Centurion 240 to the list, and I guess the 244 and 233 which are just coming out. I have heard some say the 23x boats are better wake, but I think its preference.

We have a podcast coming out tonight/tomorrow on the interiors and Brett from Centurion talking about the 2012 boats. Interiors are very nice. I really liked the 233. I like the bigger cockpit, and smaller bow, although my wife would TOTALLY disagree. I really like the step up rear deck also. Nice touches. I think I would rather have the boat that made a good wake, but didn't require as much weight. That is why I went from 24 to 22 with our Tige. Love my Tige, but those new Centurions are nice boats if centurions are your thang.

dennish 07-14-2011 8:20 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Sanger V237

duffymahoney 07-14-2011 8:43 AM

I swear people ask this question just to stir the pot! I know the Super Air Nautique 230
throws an amazing wave on both sides. I have never personally ridden one, but that is from pictures.

lakesurfer 07-14-2011 8:47 AM

you put enough weight in most boats and you can get a nice wave. Its all a matter of preference. I would really like to see a SAN 230 wave. Great boat and the SAN dealer is only 5 min from my house.

wakewoody 07-14-2011 9:10 AM

Malibu boats make great starboard waves,but you have to have a bag on the seat because they put the cooler on that side.

inland_surfer 07-14-2011 9:41 AM

240 Enzo with reverse rotation.
 
2 Attachment(s)
240 Enzo with reverse rotation. Keenan Flegel killing it on a the right side.

TheSqueakyWheel 07-14-2011 9:56 AM

Keenan could kill it behind a canoe !

ragboy 07-14-2011 10:08 AM

I would love to do the podcast on weighting the canoe. I guess I would just need to lean over a bit....

Cipher 07-14-2011 12:02 PM

"best" is always in the eye of the beholder...

MB's throw a solid goofy wake, stock.

Goofy tank filled in 60 seconds, 1150 pounds.
175 lb driver
2 115 pounders and 1 90 pounder sitting
200 lbs lead on the regular side, opposite driver (too lazy to move it for this session)

http://petefagerlin.com/images/2011MB/g2.jpg

Goofy tank filled in 60 seconds, 1150 pounds.
175 lb driver
3 115 pounders
200 lbs lead on the regular side, opposite driver (too lazy to move it for this session)

http://petefagerlin.com/images/2011MB/g1.jpg

NuBu 07-15-2011 1:28 PM

JF - not trying to hijack the thread or anything but that is some gorgeous water! Where is that?

green210 07-17-2011 5:40 PM

SAN 210 awsome wake on the goofy side. All you really need is 500 in the back and 400 up front, we have an enzo sac in the back and 700 up front though and i think our wave is pretty close to the monster enzo, tiges and etc. The goofy and regular wake on the nautique are very similar the regular side is a little bigger.

inland_surfer 07-17-2011 7:29 PM

Hello Steve

The shot was taken down in Parker AZ on the Colorado River just up river from the site of the Wakesurfing Worlds held at the Blue Water Casino which is on the river.

mdaijogo 07-17-2011 7:30 PM

I have to concur with the MB goofy wake. For the first time this weekend I had someone go ropeless behind my F21. It has 2 350 Fly High sacks (75% full) each plus the stock ballast of 900lbs. I am going to see if I can get the video. I was so stoked that I forgot to setup the GoPro. The starboard (standard) side is something else though. Never saw a good wave develop. More testing is required.

m-

wakebrdjay 07-17-2011 10:48 PM

Goofy side is the starboard side.

mdaijogo 07-17-2011 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdjay (Post 1693803)
Goofy side is the starboard side.

I guess I did crash hard enough yesterday. I meant to type standard (port) side. I guess the sheer size of the goofy wake and crashing jostled the upstairs a bit.

m-

wakebrdjay 07-18-2011 6:14 AM

Lol.

duffymahoney 07-18-2011 9:53 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Here is my Tige 24v with customs sacs. Nice wave with tons of push.

duffymahoney 07-18-2011 9:55 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here are a couple more. The tige has a very vertical wave.

dougr 07-18-2011 7:02 PM

duffy, do you like it bettery that the avy

duffymahoney 07-18-2011 9:45 PM

The wave might not be as pretty, but it has much more push and my airs are better. Plus the boat is still a foot higher then the water even with tons of weight!

ragboy 07-19-2011 12:23 AM

Yeah, the tiges have a nice freeboard, make you feel safe. What do you run taps at duffy? I know when we get the taps down it makes for a nice transition and not so steep.

duffymahoney 07-19-2011 8:45 AM

I am running taps at 2! I like the transition. I like it nice and steep!

CarFanatic5 07-19-2011 11:10 AM

duffy, what year tige did you get?

ragboy 07-19-2011 11:21 AM

Yeah, RJ likes it steep also. Some skimmers think it is too steep, but with the taps down under the 3 range on the RZ2, even though steep it has a very nice transition and so most surf style riders really love it. At the open lots of people rode behind the RZ2, same thing, surf riders like the Kinseys, Alec Wood, really liked it, Adrianna Borielli did not, to steep.

Thats why its great to have lots of choices.

duffymahoney 07-19-2011 2:09 PM

I got a 2005 tige 24v.

CarFanatic5 07-19-2011 2:13 PM

nice,.. 1000lb custom sac?

duffymahoney 07-19-2011 3:32 PM

1800 (each) pound custom sacs. Plus dual bow ballast 250 each, plus my 250 transom sac.

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 6:24 AM

those 1800's fit under the seats?

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 8:16 AM

Yep, the lockers and the seats are the biggest I have seen on a 24 foot boat. They are huge!

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 8:23 AM

thanks man that helps a lot.. I am hoping to get a rz2 or ve as my next boat. I surf most of the time and I am goofy footed

MuskokaJ 07-20-2011 9:55 AM

It looks like those Tige's have a great goofy wake. Does the RZ2 or RZ4 throw a better wake? I am a Mastercraft fan, and have been considering the X35, but that Tige wake looks hard to beat.

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 10:19 AM

The rz2 and rz4 throw great waves (never ridden one, this is from pics). They don't have the giant lockers that the 24v does though so they would run less weight. Talk to chase hazen they were surfing an x35. I don't think the goofy wave ever got cleaned up that well. I bet a little tweaking and you could get it dialed in. I also know that the Malibu 247 has a great goofy wave if you are looking for a bigger boat. Oh and the nautique 230 throws a sick goofy wave as well. For 24 foot boats I would say, Tige 24v, Nautique 230, Malibu 247 would all be great. Or a reverse rotation new centurion enzo.

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 11:08 AM

I thought the rz and ve were similar in the backs? but your saying the ve's have more storage space? Did you have to modify the swim plat form?

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 11:18 AM

I mean the older tige 24v (tige make these from 03-06 but rare in 06) I believe you are correct with the 24ve and the rz4.

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 11:20 AM

5 Attachment(s)
I did modify the swim deck.

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 11:38 AM

that turned out nice man!

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 11:53 AM

Thanks. The ballast system is crazy as well. I went with rule 3800 gph pumps for the customs. Drains and fills in less then 5 minutes!

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 12:00 PM

you fill from fittings in the bottom of the boat?

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 12:21 PM

2 Attachment(s)
They are in the bottom transom for the dual 1.5" fittings, then the dual bow sacs fill from the underside. Drains are in the back corners.

duffymahoney 07-20-2011 12:22 PM

Here is a link to my whole build thread.

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...ighlight=duffy

ragboy 07-20-2011 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuskokaJ (Post 1694513)
It looks like those Tige's have a great goofy wake. Does the RZ2 or RZ4 throw a better wake? I am a Mastercraft fan, and have been considering the X35, but that Tige wake looks hard to beat.

The RZs have bigger lockers, not much, but definitely have bigger spaces under the seats in front of the lockers. Add to that that the new 2012 RZs no longer have the cooler behind the driver. The cooler is up front in the playpen area and now the area behind seat is wide open for sacage. This would allow me to get the same weight almost as regular side, and when you include the driver, about the same.

This is mostly conjecture, but I have spoken to the designers at Tige, and to Duffy. It seems that the older 24V and the 24Ve and even the RZ4 have the same running surface/hull shape, but the 24V has a LOT more room to put the weight. The RZ2 is great, because the wake we make with the RZ2 does not require the amount of weight that the 24s would need. So the potential is that the RZ4, and the 24Ve could put out as good a wake or better than the RZ2, not sure, but its really hard to get that weight in them they require. And they need a LOT in that rear corner.

Duffy overcame this with the 24V having such monster rear lockers. One of the main reasons is that the 24V does not have the activity center at the rear, which took space out of the rear lockers and moved the weight forward some, not great for surfing.

The RZ2 gets past this with needing less weight, and also with the stock ballast, they put a hard tank below the flow all the way in the corner that is 250 lbs. That is not a lot, but its in the EXACT right spot, so it is efficient weight.

Here is a picture that really shows what I mean:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/...d7ceeedc_b.jpg
100_0108 by wake9, on Flickr

You can see the bag and tank, moved a bit forward to accomodate the activity center, and the tank in the floor on the one side of the stringer.

For the RZ2, we just replaced that small fly high sac of 350 lbs with sacs that fill the entire space and up the side, and we get an amazing wake. The RZ4, if you do the same thing, its not enough weight. Here is a great video with several angles of the RZ2 Wave. Regular and goofy. The regular and goofy are the same.

<iframe width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CtT0j5E_54Y?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What Duffy has done with the 24V has inspired us to work on the Ve. So our boat is on its way back from wakemakers, where they moved the weight back, moved batteries, and got over 1400 lbs in the lockers, not duffy's 1800, but a lot more than we had before. Let see how it goes.

CarFanatic5 07-20-2011 12:50 PM

boy do I want a RZ2 someday...

MuskokaJ 07-20-2011 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffymahoney (Post 1694518)
Talk to chase hazen they were surfing an x35. I don't think the goofy wave ever got cleaned up that well. I bet a little tweaking and you could get it dialed in.

I'd be interested to hear if they ever got the X35 goofy wake dialed in and cleaned up. I really like the design of the X35, with the high hull sides creating great freeboard, and the overall interior design. If the X35 could deliver a goofy wake that was close to the RZ2's, it would be one of my possible considerations for our next boat.

MuskokaJ 07-20-2011 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffymahoney (Post 1694533)
I did modify the swim deck.

Nice work on the swim deck mod! Slick.

StanleyWheelhouse 07-21-2011 5:19 AM

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/_MG_8342.jpg

247

duffymahoney 07-21-2011 8:24 AM

Yeah the 247 is a sweet surf boat. Wish I could afford one:)

CarFanatic5 07-21-2011 8:42 AM

I heard the malibu's need a ton of weight?

ragboy 07-21-2011 9:13 AM

That's a nice wake.

duffymahoney 07-21-2011 9:56 AM

The 247 in my mind is probably the best surf boat out. A bunch of the pro's I know all said the same thing. Wheelhouse's 247 is epic. I know he is running a ton of weight and a wedge.

lakesurfer 07-21-2011 10:33 AM

Wheelhouses wave looks great. If remember correctly, he is running nearly 4,000 lbs (including the wedge).

CarFanatic5 07-21-2011 12:03 PM

wow... thats alot of weight...

duffymahoney 07-21-2011 12:14 PM

I run close to 3k without people. The wedge just adds i believe 1k.

StanleyWheelhouse 07-21-2011 8:32 PM

The wedge only weighs about 40 pounds. We run 3000 pounds of water weight. The wedge would be compared to a wake plate like trim tab but a much better design. Our ballast system is automated and every thing on both sides drains and fills at the flip of a switch. the goofy wave is really nice.

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 6:51 AM

stanley, is all your weight hidden? Do you have a build thread of your set up?

duffymahoney 07-22-2011 8:27 AM

Stanley, it might only weight 40 pounds but provides 1k in down force correct? :) I have a theory and that is most deep v hulls with enough weight and time spent dialing them in can have great waves. A few boats are tall and big and can throw epic waves. Each wave is shaped differently so all boats are very different.

07-22-2011 8:56 AM

4 Attachment(s)
230 Last night, 11.8 mph brick wall of goodness.

Both sides are fast, solid, and long

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 9:14 AM

that a san230?

07-22-2011 10:01 AM

It is...

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 10:03 AM

how much weight are you running? is it all hidden weight?

StanleyWheelhouse 07-22-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duffymahoney (Post 1695033)
Stanley, it might only weight 40 pounds but provides 1k in down force correct? :) I have a theory and that is most deep v hulls with enough weight and time spent dialing them in can have great waves. A few boats are tall and big and can throw epic waves. Each wave is shaped differently so all boats are very different.

I agree you put enough weight to a point in a john boat and it will throw a wave. the malibu 247 however throws the biggest and tallest longest wave out there. i have ridden its competitors and only Mark Shers of Inland Surfer impressed me. The 247 actually has more A S S in the water than any other boat I have seen. This is because the bow rail does not curve down on the back of the boat and therefore you have more A S S in the water below the rub rail. Yes they do require more weight than other boats. But so what. As for the wedge it is funny how people say we are running four thousand pounds of weight. When we are talking weight in wake surfing we are talking ballast bag weight. And as far as ballast bag weight goes we run 3K. No other boat maker has come out and said our wake plate or taps system or what ever you want to call it adds X amount of weight to the boat. The wedge only weighs 40 pounds ish. The ballast weight we run is 3 K. When it is just MRS Wheelhouse and my self we will put a four hundred pound bag on the seats. Though I don't think it is needed she likes it and if MRS Wheelhouse aint happy...well you know the rest. If there are two other people in the boat we typically will not use a sac. However, when there are multiple people in the boat to a point we will use a sac because lets face it, unless you are a complete A S S people are not going to sit where you ask them too. VAB's have a tendency to move around.

The goofy wave in our picture is not to the boats capability. I only have on 1100 pound sac on that time as NEFF is our only goofy rider and I put that sac in only because he is like my brother an I love him dearly. I want to put a custom sac in on that side and was going too but MRS Wheelhouse's multiple back surgeries have put a damper on our wake surfing season. The 247 wave on the goofy side is unbelievable when we weight it down the same way as the port side.. We have filled the 1100 hundred in the locker and put a 750 on the seat plus the factory center and starboard rear factory tank before and the wave is RIDICULOUS. It is actually better than the Port side and we have all seen The Wheelhouse port side wave picture that RAGBOY proved was a real unaltered photograph. Thanks RAG UDAMAN!!!

All of our sacs drain and fill at the flip of a switch. We have a plug port to fill any bags that might be on the seats. We do have a Tsunami on the boat but it is only for emergency purposes. It has not been used in Three Years.

That is a nice Sanger wave in the pic. The man riding is none other than Danny Lemke a Bro Fa Sho. Danny is a great friend and knows the Wheelhouse wave well. Though I do not recall him riding it on our endless summer surf expedition.

Duff i replied only to your thread but this goes out to all listening. Cheers fella shreddaz

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 12:04 PM

hmm... maybe I need to look into a used 247...

StanleyWheelhouse 07-22-2011 12:14 PM

i think you mean high quality pre-owned....you will love the boat the wave and the times

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 12:17 PM

yes that ;) any difference in the 247lsv an 23lsv? other then the extra foot?

StanleyWheelhouse 07-22-2011 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 (Post 1695123)
yes that ;) any difference in the 247lsv an 23lsv? other then the extra foot?

HUGE had a 23.

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 12:44 PM

ok then.. do you have a build thread of how you built the ballast system? Just curious

StanleyWheelhouse 07-22-2011 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarFanatic5 (Post 1695138)
ok then.. do you have a build thread of how you built the ballast system? Just curious


http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/..._1#entry439014

big jay is a bro fa sho! him and i thru two boats and trial and error perfected the ballast system. this thread is an install he did on a friends boat. it is the same as mine. you may have to join themalibucrew.com to see it. be careful. lots of haters on that site and the love to hate on ole wheelhouse!!!!

07-22-2011 1:46 PM

Danny is behind the 230 Nautique in that pic. This is the goofy wave give or take for the comp in August up here in MPLS.

CarFanatic5 07-22-2011 1:53 PM

thanks I'll take a look at it!

dougr 07-22-2011 2:03 PM

i would love to see a review that focused on the push of the wave. I have an 09 enzo 23 and love the wave, I didn't get a chance to test alot of the boats, i had a bu vlx before it, I always love the posts and pics of the waves other boats make, but i have to wonder how much push they make. I want a bigger boat, i.e bu 247 or the new enzo 244, but it would be nice to hear from some that have been behind, the bu, enzo, rz2, rz4, 237 sanger etc etc that can talk about the differences in push. thanks

ragboy 07-22-2011 2:05 PM

Stanley, still want to get out there and video that wake from all angles, and give RJ a ride, that would be fun. its just FAR....

Looking forward to seeing you next week, maybe we can set something up.

ragboy 07-22-2011 2:32 PM

@dougr Dennis is a good person to talk to. @ 260lbs + and riding behind most of those boats, he would have a decent opinion. I usually bring him to demos with me, he is my "push" demo dude when we do demos.

We have thought a lot about that question, and have noodled how it would be possible to "measure" push consistently. We came up with some ideas, also on how to measure wave, even bought some stuff to test, but the measurement of "push" is the part that is most needed, and tough to work out.

bigcatpt 07-22-2011 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragboy (Post 1695180)
@dougr Dennis is a good person to talk to. @ 260lbs + and riding behind most of those boats, he would have a decent opinion. I usually bring him to demos with me, he is my "push" demo dude when we do demos.

We have thought a lot about that question, and have noodled how it would be possible to "measure" push consistently. We came up with some ideas, also on how to measure wave, even bought some stuff to test, but the measurement of "push" is the part that is most needed, and tough to work out.

Us bigger than average guys in the 250+ club understand push! We need a lot of it! And it is really noticable when a boat or more specifically a wave is lacking it! I wish there was a more objective way to measure it instead of the subjective "well it didn't push my fat ass very well". :D

StanleyWheelhouse 07-23-2011 8:21 AM

Rag,

at this point we will not be making to NWWSA this year. Leah underwent two back surgery procedures in March and is still in recovery. Though she did go wake surfing for the first time last weekend in over a year. Our boat has see the water only twice this year. She is doing fine after her first set and looks to be making a full, as a good as new recovery. Cheers and Hooray!!!!

@all
Ken, the operator of Centurion Crew rode our 247 wave and commented on how much push it had. As you well know Ken is a great person and a die hard Centurion Man. Ken is also a big guy.

The power wedge is what makes all the difference. It allows a steepening of the wake but does not dirty the wake like i have seen some wake plate devices do. I have no doubt if the wedge were added to other 24 boats they would certainly rival the 247 as far as push goes. It seems like when I am riding other boats I am more on my front foot trying to keep up with the boat. Not that I have to try because the waves are small or weak, but I do notice a different weight distribution on the board than when riding the 247 wave. I have to put my weight on my back foot constantly in effort to keep from being shot forward.

as you all know Wheelhouse is a lover of people and wake surfing and for that reason you all have an open invitation to come ride our wave any time.

ragboy 07-23-2011 8:53 AM

@wheelhouse You know, I knew that, but while writing that post, I had a brain fart. Hope she recovers quickly. Will miss u in Seattle.

johnboyy7 07-23-2011 12:34 PM

@wheelhouse

do you mind posting a pic of this infamous wave?

curious..... why are you hated on so much on the malibu sight?


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