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-   -   U.S. Hits the Debt Ceiling: What Does It All Mean? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787592)

Laker1234 05-16-2011 3:11 PM

U.S. Hits the Debt Ceiling: What Does It All Mean?
 
What now? http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...&asset=&ccode=

cadunkle 05-16-2011 5:28 PM

Good, "catastrophic economic circumstances" are necessary for people to wake up and realize debt is bad. Would any one of us here max out our credit cards giving things to the poor or needy? I would hope not.

The neocons crying about raising the debt ceiling if the socialists cut entitlements is absurd. This should not be raised any more, the sooner the day of reckoning comes the less it will hurt and the briefer the pain will be. This country needs to return to a small Constitutional government, and sound fiscal policy.

no_tools 05-16-2011 10:11 PM

nothing is gonna happen. they will raise the dept limit and the united states will wait for the next season of american idol to start. or facebook will come out with a new farm ville.

wake77 05-17-2011 5:51 AM

"Would any one of us here max out our credit cards giving things to the poor or needy? I would hope not."

Would any of us max out our credit cards to fight two unnecessary wars? I would hope not. Do some research, entitlements are not bankrupting this country.

brett33 05-17-2011 6:13 AM

unnecessary? i dont think so.. prolonged, more like it. we should have never been Afgan and Iraq as long as we have. we should have nuc'd that place and been done with it. May sound a little ridiculous, but so does paying $4.50 a gallon.

cadunkle 05-17-2011 6:50 AM

Jeremy, it's not one or the other... It's both. I agree entirely with "Would any of us max out our credit cards to fight two unnecessary wars? I would hope not." Both the wars and the entitlements and handouts need to end. The only wars should be Constitutional ones, that is declared by Congress... Thus with clear cut goals which defined the end of the war (no endless "war on terror").

fly135 05-17-2011 7:20 AM

At least with entitlements we know where the money is going. I.E. right back into the domestic economy. But yeah, everything needs to be cut. Out of Iraq and Afghanistan now. Bigs cuts across all the govt agencies. Obviously defense tops the list with Homeland Security and FDA right behind it. Cut all corp subsidies and foreign bribes... err I mean aid. Then the chopping block needs to hit health care.

Just take a look at how all the other modern nations achieve much lower healthcare costs and implement the same policies here. Limit excessive testing, malpractice costs, and move to utilize medical personel at the top of their abilities.

psudy 05-17-2011 8:24 AM

I read the other day that the government spends 68K per day on subsidies to ranchers for storing Faro horses. We could start by reopening the slaughter houses.

05-17-2011 9:03 AM

I just love how the Democrat's Champion Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush.... I guess that's Hope and Change.


wake77 05-17-2011 9:29 AM

I guess it's a no-win situation for Obama. If he doesn't order the assassination of bin Laden, he is too soft. When he does, he is a "warmonger". I don't support the way Obama is handling the wars that Bush started, but I don't think you will find many of his supporters that didn't agree with getting rid of bin Laden, no matter how you spin it.

I would think that it is a depressing time to be so anti-Obama. I don't see a formidable opponent for him in 2012, unless someone is laying extremely low. So I guess we will be having the same conversation in 2015.

05-17-2011 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake77 (Post 1679368)
I guess it's a no-win situation for Obama. If he doesn't order the assassination of bin Laden, he is too soft. When he does, he is a "warmonger". I don't support the way Obama is handling the wars that Bush started, but I don't think you will find many of his supporters that didn't agree with getting rid of bin Laden, no matter how you spin it.

I would think that it is a depressing time to be so anti-Obama. I don't see a formidable opponent for him in 2012, unless someone is laying extremely low. So I guess we will be having the same conversation in 2015.

LOL... Keep telling yourself that...

Betty White could run against Obama and win, don't kid yourself. In 2015? Are you saying that Obama will run again?

fly135 05-17-2011 10:11 AM

Sam, you're not only fooling yourself with the anti-Obama rhetoric but perpetuating the problem. If anything what Obama should symbolize to people is that no politician will stop the war mongering or excessive spending unless we the people are willing to demand it. The Tea Party is demanding that the spending stop, but they aren't giving any direction as to how. And that's a huge mistake.

Obama promised change and delivered. Because when a politician promises change, he means change from that party to this one. If the people of this country want change then they are going to need to define what change means.

05-17-2011 10:29 AM

I think you are a delusional Obamamaniac...

Apparently you are not a student of history and you are NOT paying attention. Several plans have been given, but the media and you are ignoring them.

All I can say is get your history books out, it's going to get rough...

brett33 05-17-2011 10:43 AM

If Obama gets another term, I'm moving to Mexico. I'd rather take my chances dealing with the cartels..

fly135 05-17-2011 10:44 AM

Yeah, my support of Obama is really up there. You sure don't waste any time throwing away your credibility.;)

fly135 05-17-2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett33 (Post 1679403)
If Obama gets another term, I'm moving to Mexico. I'd rather take my chances dealing with the cartels..

Better get your passport up to date, because the GOP isn't going to offer anything but a$$hats and clowns. And I see little evidence that the public is any wiser today.

digg311 05-17-2011 11:02 AM

Somebody better call Betty White... Trump bailed and you just lost Gingrich...
http://www.salon.com/news/2012_elect..._gingrich_iowa

05-17-2011 11:11 AM

You had better hope they do... read your history books. I go to every town hall, district, county, and state meeting and have been for over 15 years. I can tell you that the level of vitriol, discontent, and anger is greater than it has ever been. People want to work, they want to take care of themselves, they want to be responsible for themselves and don't need a hand out from the government. They want smaller government, not bigger government.

Obama hasn't offered very much change, he mostly follows Bush's lead. Bush was an idiot, a dictator, and all about big government.

This country is getting ready to explode, read your history books and get ready.

fly135 05-17-2011 11:24 AM

A bunch of people ranting at a town hall meeting and a buck will get you a cup of coffee. Do I hope people will get smarter? Yes. Do I anticipate it? No.

The problem with your example is that these people are misguided and will not come up with any ideas that will fly. They think that handouts means money given to help poor people and college kids. What they don't understand it that the handouts are much bigger than that. Every govt agency is not only an example of welfare on the payroll, but we are also giving this welfare to people who have the power to take away our rights. Every professional society and large corporation has the ear of these welfare bureaucrats, including the ones we elect.

And I've yet to see anyone describe how to fix our problems. Ultimately they avoid facing the elephant in the room (i.e. health care) and say something F'n stupid like... "let's give old people a voucher and see if any one will insure them".

05-17-2011 11:31 AM

I guess we will see...

fly135 05-17-2011 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digg311 (Post 1679417)
Somebody better call Betty White... Trump bailed and you just lost Gingrich...
http://www.salon.com/news/2012_elect..._gingrich_iowa

This article highlights exactly what I'm talking about. The Iowa Repub blasted Gingrich for undercutting Ryan's desire to phase out medicare, but Gingrich is right. However no politician including Gingrich is going to take the correct position. And that's the need to scale back healthcare spending across the board. Medicare (and medicaid) is only part of the problem.

Healthcare is becoming unaffordable or increasingly unaffordable for everyone. And because no politician has the nerve to take this approach, it's up to the public to pick up the ball and focus the attack on healthcare costs. But the public isn't smart enough to get this. As soon as somebody puts this up for public review you're going to get a lot of fear mongering about how important it is that we have the best and safest health care, and any attack on the hyper inflationary costs will put you in danger.

magicr 05-17-2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

John- yeah I don't think i would have mentioned moving to Mexico if my passport wasn't up to date, or if I didn't already own a home there.
Wow! I guess I picked the wrong field of employment when I was 25.

psudy 05-17-2011 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magicr (Post 1679448)
Wow! I guess I picked the wrong field of employment when I was 25.

I thought everyone had a house in Mexico.

psudy 05-17-2011 1:35 PM

Sam,
You can't tell me that if Bush killed OBL, that you wouldn't be thrilled and defending him against the almost certain outcry from liberals for the assasination. Now that Obama did it, you are calling him a warmonger?

The arguement over whether we should have taken him alive is just silly. Its one thing for us to disagree with Obamas policies, but this isn't something Rebulicans should be whinning about.

05-17-2011 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psudy (Post 1679455)
Sam,
You can't tell me that if Bush killed OBL, that you wouldn't be thrilled and defending him against the almost certain outcry from liberals for the assasination. Now that Obama did it, you are calling him a warmonger?

The arguement over whether we should have taken him alive is just silly. Its one thing for us to disagree with Obamas policies, but this isn't something Rebulicans should be whinning about.

My comments are not based on OBL. Obama ran on the platform that he would get us out of the wars, but he gets us into more! Here you go, in case you forgot...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qp9YJjZFGQw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He said he would close Guantanamo. Here you go, in case you forgot...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UQXZoM__vU0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

He blames everything on Bush, yet he follows through with almost the exact same policies. He talks about the most open, transparent presidency ever... that's funny! Can you tell me what actually happened at the OBL operation? I can give you at least three entirely different accounts given by Obama's people.

I am not "whinning" about anything. I don't give a crap about Terrorism. I don't need anyone to provide for my safety.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

I truly believe those words and do my best to live by them. Nothing is more dear to me than my liberty and freedom. I will one day die, I can not stop it from happening, therefore I would never saddle someone with the responsibility of caring for me or my body. I will pay my own way, and if I can't I will gladly go off in to the woods and die. Liberty is not free and I accept that, I am/will pay my own way. I am responsible for my own actions, no one else. I think people should be responsible for themselves, and should be held accountable. If people want to follow a leader, let them, and let them deal with the consequences. As for me, I just wish people would leave me alone, not take from me, and not expect of me which is not theirs. Finally, I am not a Republican, I am a conservative libertarian.

guido 05-17-2011 3:30 PM

We've got a long road ahead. That's all I'll say. We need a president that's not impotent. There is far too much political posturing and very little functional action. The middle class is over it. The lower class is over it. But, IMO, there is no "internal" threat to our government or it's actions. The Tea party is a joke as far as I can tell. Once they get behind a public face that has some credibility they may develop some momentum. Until then.... Palin? Really?

Government needs to be restructured from ground up. It's overgrown and worthless. Checks to check on the checks. People creating jobs just so there can be jobs.

What was our complaint about British rule? "Taxation without representation"? I regularly feel under represented.

We'll see what happens. I'm patiently awaiting "reform".

wake77 05-17-2011 6:35 PM

"Betty White could run against Obama and win, don't kid yourself."

Maybe in Samland that is true, but Obama will easily win in 2012; unless some major scandal was to occur. And I don't care what you hear on Limbaugh, he was dead wrong in 2008.

"In 2015? Are you saying that Obama will run again?"

No, I was saying that then we can discuss who the next president may be.

fly135 05-18-2011 7:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIngram (Post 1679480)
I am not "whinning" about anything. I don't give a crap about Terrorism. I don't need anyone to provide for my safety.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin

You know I agree with this and I agree that Obama is not much more than a black Bush. But singling Obama out misses the point. People aren't willing to say we need to get out of the wars. And people aren't ready to cut back on Big Brother. You have to attack the mindset of the people and their complacency with the govt and it's actions. When you turn it into a partisan political argument, then you become nothing more than part of the problem.

A lot of people think I'm a a$$hat because I attack their petty political arguments as nothing more than douchbaggery. There isn't a politician out there that is willing to say what needs to be done. It doesn't make any sense to brown nose any of them with your support. They all have bad ideas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIngram (Post 1679480)
I truly believe those words and do my best to live by them. Nothing is more dear to me than my liberty and freedom. I will one day die, I can not stop it from happening, therefore I would never saddle someone with the responsibility of caring for me or my body. I will pay my own way, and if I can't I will gladly go off in to the woods and die.

Not all of us feel this way. A lot of people want affordable healthcare for themselves and their family. You mock them by saying they want it for free. But that kind of ignorance is exactly how you make people your politcal opponent. You become a tool of the divide and conquer poltical process.

What kind of freedom is it when lawyers, the pharmaceutical industry, the medical community, and govt makes all the rules about what medical treatment you can have and who you can get it from? And what kind of competitive market is it when the combination of these rules, selective tax advantages for health insurance, and employer provided HI skews the market and drives up prices? It isn't the people who want access to health care that are your enemy. And if you choose to make the majority of the voters your politcal opponent then don't be suprised that you go home the loser in the battle.

psudy 05-18-2011 8:12 AM

Lets face it. Lawyers are the root of all evil. Granted sometimes they are needed, but most of the time its just a big money grab under the pretense of helping the weak.

brett33 05-18-2011 8:21 AM

scott- guess so.. sorry buddy

stepintoliquid 05-19-2011 10:51 AM

hahaha @ Makaveli. Sad part is he is right...

bear 05-19-2011 7:28 PM

It's taken a long time to get in this situation and it's going to take a while to get out of it. It goes further back than Obama and Bush. You can't just blame the current president for the issues in stepped into. Yes he has contributed but it's not 100% Obama. Also let's get real the president can only do so much! It's the system, congrees and the house are to Blane as well. Everyone in the government is looking to keep their base and get realected, thus they don't want to piss any one off, so none of the hard issues get fixed.


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