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-   -   Super Air Nautique Sunk (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=786530)

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 9:09 AM

Super Air Nautique Sunk
 
Not sure if anyone has ever had an experience with a sunken boat, but let me be the first to tell you that it's possibly the most devastating/nerve wracking thing ever. I have a 2006 Nautique and have put right around 710 hours on it since we got it (it was brand new, 0 hours). Literally never had a problem with it in all these years then one morning I got a phone call saying get home the boat is underwater. Turns out the bilge pump malfunctioned and after a good rain, water got high enough to sink the stern and allow water to enter through the blower holes. The whole back of the boat was underwater with the nose just poking straight up in the air. Took right at around 3 hours to get it floating again and on the trailer and to the marina. Luckily, after an entire fall (sunk August 13th 2010, got it back Saturday March 13th 2011) insurance decided to cover most of the costs leaving us with minimal payments.

All that being said, just figured I would help keep some of you from having to experience such a thing. If you have a fairly newer nautique then you know that there is a switch under the steering wheel that turns to either all on, bilge only, or all off. I used to just leave it on bilge only and turn one battery on while it was either on the dock or on the trailer. If you've ever been around the boat when it was on the bilge only setting, then you have heard the bilge turn on from time to time. From what the dealers and marina told me, the bilge can sometimes mistake movement or different angles (when it's sitting on a trailer) as water build up and turn the bilge on. If it continues to run like this, the motor in the bilge can fry and leave you with a pretty much worthless boat. So for all of you who have Nautiques, be careful about the bilge only, and only use it when necessary!!!!

Good Ridin!
-Peace

bruizza 03-22-2011 9:25 AM

Man that is a sad situation. I am glad you were able to get it all repaired and I hope you have a trouble free season!

h2ohangtime 03-22-2011 9:33 AM

Wow, good advice, but sorry you had to learn through that experience first hand. Did you ever hear about a better alternative or at least some preventative measures so the risk is minimized when leaving the switch on Bilge Only?

Thrall 03-22-2011 10:12 AM

Do Nautiques not have a regular float switch bilge pumps? I don't buy the "movement or different angles can cause the pump to run." Unless the float stuck in the up or down position or there was a short in hte circuit somewhere you should be good.
Nonetheless, sorry to hear about your boat. That sucks bigtime, glad you got it back for this year.
Also not sure why the bilge would kick on "from time to time" without any external input like leaky shaft seal, leaky ballast tanks, etc. These newer boats with the dripless shaft seals shouldn't take on any water at all just moored up.
So what actually happened? DId the motor fry or battery go dead? Or is it possible to even tell at this point?
Appreciate the heads up though.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2ohangtime (Post 1667340)
Wow, good advice, but sorry you had to learn through that experience first hand. Did you ever hear about a better alternative or at least some preventative measures so the risk is minimized when leaving the switch on Bilge Only?

As for preventative measures, they were really basic and straight forward... Pay attention to weather and if it is going to rain, make sure it is on. Have them check it when you get it summarized for the year. Just little stuff like that. The problem is that the bilge is actually mounted on the bottom of boat under the actual motor. So it's a pain to get too and in an already awkward position. Let me also say that in no means am I bashing Nautique, I absolutely love my boat and would not trade it for anything, but I had over 700 hours on my engine and other electronics so it had already taken a toll. So any kind of smart, on-the-spot measures should really help minimize the likelihood of any troubles! Hope you have a great season man.

-Peace

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrall (Post 1667355)
Do Nautiques not have a regular float switch bilge pumps? I don't buy the "movement or different angles can cause the pump to run." Unless the float stuck in the up or down position or there was a short in hte circuit somewhere you should be good.
Nonetheless, sorry to hear about your boat. That sucks bigtime, glad you got it back for this year.
Also not sure why the bilge would kick on "from time to time" without any external input like leaky shaft seal, leaky ballast tanks, etc. These newer boats with the dripless shaft seals shouldn't take on any water at all just moored up.
So what actually happened? DId the motor fry or battery go dead? Or is it possible to even tell at this point?
Appreciate the heads up though.

Hey man, I am in the same position you are in on the doubtful and questioning side. I found it hard to believe that it could switch on from time to time. My only guess would be if you have it sacked out and you leak any when your putting the cap back on it could trigger the bilge? I can't be the person to tell you why or what happened, I can just say what they told me (which at that point, I was so furious I couldn't stand myself..) But from the sounds of everything, the final verdict was the motor in the bilge went out. They said it could have been that it had run too much over the years/months/weeks/days/hours or that the rain managed to get it wet and fry it. Hope ya have a great season though man. And hope this helps out in the long run, just figured I would pass along the info!

-Peace

grant_west 03-22-2011 10:25 AM

I feel for you. Sorry your boat sank that must SUCK. I don't know how a lot of boat owners do it. But leaving your boat in the water with just a cover on it IMO is like hopeing for the best. Not only do you have to worry about theft,sun dammage,rain dammage some one crashing into it you have to worry about it still floating when you come back. No thanks. For pure piece of mind when I'm away from the boat for any length of time My garage or on the trailer make me sleep better at night. As you found out anything can happen at any time. Some times you get thoes Freak Storms and then your S.O.L . I don't know how the people in Tahoe Ca do it I see wake boats tied to a bouy with a cover on them rolleing in the swells 100 feet off shore for who knows how long. Im sure there are many other places like that where the weather can change very quickly and your 1 hr away and then what do you do. I guess all you can do is make changes that sunk you last time and keep your insurnace up to date and just write it up as a learning exp. But your advice is good even for people who just dock overnight.

On a sort of unrelated Note. I heard some bad news from a friend. Another friend of my'n had his X star parked in his driveway. It's a real sweet boat. It has a factory Master craft cover on it a big system in it, We had weeks of heavy rain, The cover became overwhelmed with rain and it got in and filled his boat like a hot tub of water. (he left the plug in) So he sank the boat on the trailer. When they came back and removed the cover they had a giant bath tub. A boat filled with water. That Suck's. So Public Service Announcment. people that leave your boat outside make sure your plug is out. My advice is ZIP tie the plug to the stearing wheel so you dont forget it come summer time

wakebrdjay 03-22-2011 10:50 AM

I didn't read all the above posts,but don't most manufactures use an electronic sensor type bilge float? I know my '07 Supreme has an electronic float switch.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant_west (Post 1667362)
I feel for you. Sorry your boat sank that must SUCK. I don't know how a lot of boat owners do it. But leaving your boat in the water with just a cover on it IMO is like hopeing for the best. Not only do you have to worry about theft,sun dammage,rain dammage some one crashing into it you have to worry about it still floating when you come back. No thanks. For pure piece of mind when I'm away from the boat for any length of time My garage or on the trailer make me sleep better at night. As you found out anything can happen at any time. Some times you get thoes Freak Storms and then your S.O.L . I don't know how the people in Tahoe Ca do it I see wake boats tied to a bouy with a cover on them rolleing in the swells 100 feet off shore for who knows how long. Im sure there are many other places like that where the weather can change very quickly and your 1 hr away and then what do you do. I guess all you can do is make changes that sunk you last time and keep your insurnace up to date and just write it up as a learning exp. But your advice is good even for people who just dock overnight.

On a sort of unrelated Note. I heard some bad news from a friend. Another friend of my'n had his X star parked in his driveway. It's a real sweet boat. It has a factory Master craft cover on it a big system in it, We had weeks of heavy rain, The cover became overwhelmed with rain and it got in and filled his boat like a hot tub of water. (he left the plug in) So he sank the boat on the trailer. When they came back and removed the cover they had a giant bath tub. A boat filled with water. That Suck's. So Public Service Announcment. people that leave your boat outside make sure your plug is out. My advice is ZIP tie the plug to the stearing wheel so you dont forget it come summer time


Hey bud, thanks for the concern. I definitely understand where your coming from on your comments. We bought a heavy weather cover (rain, sun damage protection) and have socks for the tower speakers when we decide to tie it off for the night, day what have you. I live in Alabama and ride on Lake Martin, and not to be "hoity toity" but we live in a pretty nice neighborhood and up in a cove away from the main body and out of view. We have never had any issues as far as vandalism or theft nor has anyone in the area to this date. HOWEVER, like I said I got the boat March 12th and have ridden pretty much every day since and after riding, that boat comes out of the water, cover goes on, and plug comes out. During the winter it does stay in the garage and the plug is zip tied to the steering wheel, so good advice there. It was just a crappy situation overall. Luckily, we got it back and it's riding like new, and actually got all new bilge, ballast, stereo, and vinyl haha, so no complaints there.

Just a side note, a friend left his shoes in the boat that day (August 13th, the day it sunk) and decided to come and get them late that night. Rolled up the cover, hopped in and got them and left. Called him that morning to come help and he said when he got his shoes the night before, there was water up to his ankles.... Didn't decide to tell anyone about it, just got his shoes and left. My only response was quite a few obscenities and "the boat goes in the water, the water doesn't go in the boat dumba**"

-Peace

wakebrdjay 03-22-2011 10:58 AM

I think if my "friend" told me that,his family jewels may need an ice pack also.

wakebrdjay 03-22-2011 10:59 AM

THAT SUX Sorry for your troubles.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakebrdjay (Post 1667374)
I think if my "friend" told me that,his family jewels may need an ice pack also.

Yeah the "friend" hasn't been out this year and more than likely won't all this year.

dizzyj 03-22-2011 11:36 AM

My 07 bilge pump isn't on a float. It turns on every now and then to detect water. Can't see how that wouldn't eventually run the battery down.

bcrider 03-22-2011 11:39 AM

WTF!!! I can't believe your "friend" didn't say anything. That is so brutal!

chris4x4gill2 03-22-2011 11:40 AM

The bilge pump should be an automatic non-float pump. Same as used in most newer boats these days (and the replacement for the older float style alot of times.) They typically come on every two minutes, if there is no water, they turn back off after 15 seconds. If there is water they stay on until they pump dry for 15 seconds. If left for extended periods, this could certainly run down a battery (not saying yours was). I have always wondered the effect running the pump dry like that had on the pump itself.

migs 03-22-2011 12:33 PM

All the hair on my arms, legs, back of the neck are standing STRAIGHT UP!
thats my worst nightmare.....

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migs (Post 1667402)
All the hair on my arms, legs, back of the neck are standing STRAIGHT UP!
thats my worst nightmare.....

Ha, yeah I know what you mean. Especially when the boat takes up so much of your time, practice, etc. The marina originally said the insurance company would total it. My heart sank needless to say. Just means this year has to be better than last though!

-Peace

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris4x4gill2 (Post 1667390)
The bilge pump should be an automatic non-float pump. Same as used in most newer boats these days (and the replacement for the older float style alot of times.) They typically come on every two minutes, if there is no water, they turn back off after 15 seconds. If there is water they stay on until they pump dry for 15 seconds. If left for extended periods, this could certainly run down a battery (not saying yours was). I have always wondered the effect running the pump dry like that had on the pump itself.

I am no expert whatsoever in the field of marine electronics or mechanics, but just using common sense leads me to believe the automatic turn on for water detection can POSSIBLY (not probably or always) lead to some sort of issue. I couldn't tell you if mine was a float or non-float. All I know is it didn't pump out the water and ended up with the board platform touching the bottom of the lake haha.

-Peace

chris4x4gill2 03-22-2011 2:37 PM

I agree, but part of Rule's advertising states "No burn-out when run dry " I dont know what they are doing to prevent it though.
"

tdc_worm 03-22-2011 2:50 PM

first, sorry for you loss...that totally sucks.

not to discredit your dealer, but both my 2006 220 and my 2007 230 have bilge two bilge pumps that operate off of timers. every two minutes the pumps will kick on for two seconds. i cannot confirm, but i believe they make their decision to pump or not pump off water back pressure. while they voltage draw is next to minimal, over the course of time i can see how it would drain a weak battery. this approach eliminates the possibility of a stuck float, which would have netted the same result if stuck in the down position or dead battery if stuck in the up position, but it assumes that you maintain and monitor your batteries. a cover probably would have helped alleviate the situation if one was not in use.

wakebrdjay 03-22-2011 4:13 PM

They have electronic water sensor floats that work like a mechanical float that turns on when the water reaches a certain level in the bilge.It's a switch that turns on when it is submerged in water.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc_worm (Post 1667429)
first, sorry for you loss...that totally sucks.

not to discredit your dealer, but both my 2006 220 and my 2007 230 have bilge two bilge pumps that operate off of timers. every two minutes the pumps will kick on for two seconds. i cannot confirm, but i believe they make their decision to pump or not pump off water back pressure. while they voltage draw is next to minimal, over the course of time i can see how it would drain a weak battery. this approach eliminates the possibility of a stuck float, which would have netted the same result if stuck in the down position or dead battery if stuck in the up position, but it assumes that you maintain and monitor your batteries. a cover probably would have helped alleviate the situation if one was not in use.

I got ya. Like I keep saying, I have no clue about the mechanics behind the situation, I'm just relaying what the guys have told me. But don't be sorry, I got it back thank goodness. And to answer your question with the cover, yes, one was on it. Check out my post above where I was speaking about the friend.

-Peace

grant_west 03-22-2011 4:49 PM

Please tell us "Your Friend" that forgot their shoes was a hot chick? For some reason I can't understand how any MAN would not not know there was a problem with "Water to ankels" inside the boat . You know how much water has to be inside a boat to have it up past the floor to your ankles???
That being said people make mistakes and the good thing is you back and your ready for spring/summer.

shawndoggy 03-22-2011 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant_west (Post 1667362)
I don't know how the people in Tahoe Ca do it I see wake boats tied to a bouy with a cover on them rolleing in the swells 100 feet off shore for who knows how long.

I have a client who does refurbs on boats that sink on Tahoe for the insurance companies. Like you, the thought of having my boat out on that freakin' ocean for extended periods unattending sounds crazy. My client surprised me by saying only 8-12 boats go under a year on Tahoe. I thought that the number would be much higher.

billhall 03-22-2011 5:38 PM

Since the mid 2000s or before Nautiques have come with 2 bilge pumps (one mid-ship and one stern). They are made by Rule and are electronic sensing for water like posted above. They are 100% no burn-out when run dry. (Not to say one couldn't go bad for a different reason) I would venture to guess there was a battery problem since even if one pump failed you would have the other to back it up. Those pumps individually will keep up with any heavy rain so, again, I would guess there was a battery issue.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant_west (Post 1667458)
Please tell us "Your Friend" that forgot their shoes was a hot chick? For some reason I can't understand how any MAN would not not know there was a problem with "Water to ankels" inside the boat . You know how much water has to be inside a boat to have it up past the floor to your ankles???
That being said people make mistakes and the good thing is you back and your ready for spring/summer.

Haha, if it was a hot chick I would have been out there "assisting," or at least doin my damnedest. But let's just say, manhood hasn't quite reached him. Think of it as Alan from the hangover. Don't let the beard fool you, he's a child.

-Peace

seth 03-22-2011 6:34 PM

Dude that sucks, but I have a question. How was your boat tied up if your back end sank to the bottom? I found a VLX sinking last summer one morning at the marina. It was out of the water only by about 1' because it was tied to the dock and that was holding it up.

cadunkle 03-22-2011 7:24 PM

I worry about this a bit when I keep mine in the water for a week or two in the summer. If you keep up on maintenance and ensure your seals and through hulls aren't leaking, and your bilge pump works then there shouldn't be a problem. Boat were made to be in the water. If you're really concerned run two batteries and two pumps for fail safe and extra capacity.

Last summer when I was staying on the lake a monsoon-like storm swept through. I considered pulling the boat out but didn't think it would be too bad. Over the course of 6 hours or so the lake raised about 8", our dock was underwater, and in the worst of it you couldn't see 10' out the window. When it settled down I checked on the boat and it was fine. Sinking are rare and I have insurance so I try not to get too paranoid. No one of the lake has a lift and I've never heard of anyone sinking. People regularly leave their boats there for weeks (months?) unattended... Though everyone keeps an eye on their neighbors boats and such if anything doesn't look right or after heavy rains.

Now as for that friend of yours... I don't think that person would be a friend of mine anymore. Things happen, but there's no excuse for not telling you your boat was sinking.

ALWakePEACE 03-22-2011 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seth (Post 1667488)
Dude that sucks, but I have a question. How was your boat tied up if your back end sank to the bottom? I found a VLX sinking last summer one morning at the marina. It was out of the water only by about 1' because it was tied to the dock and that was holding it up.

I actually tie it up on 3 cleats. One on bow, one middle, one on stern. The stern cleat ripped out of the dock I'm assuming after a few waves rattled it enough? So the front and middle was above water pretty much with the back of the boat submerged and a little of the middle left side. Here is a picture of how it is always tied up.

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/t...gejumping2.jpg

wakescene 03-23-2011 11:37 AM

I too leave my boat in the water for many months at a time. I also live 2.5hours away from the boat during these months. We reply on neighbors and friends to keep check on things when other residents are not there. Non of us are afraid to hop on each others boats to fix a problem, loose dock line or flapping cover, we all do it for each other all summer. I personally am NOT a fan of the Autosense pumps. They are too finniky. A float pump is my preferred method.

AutoSense bilge story from last summer.
My neighbor has a big fishing boat on lift, his boat was up on the lift when a big storm came through and dumped a ton of rain(this was mid-week and he was home). He does not pull the plug because it's below the V and is extremely hard to get to. Very few boats have easy access to their plugs like a wakeboat center plug. His bilge kicked on and drained the boat, but there was just enough water left from the hose backwash to kick the pump on, but not pump any water out. We share a dock. After the storm I was drying my boat and caught ear of his bilge pump running full bore. I figured it would stop in a few minutes. After about 10min, I realized something was wrong. I hopped up on his boat, and pulled the access panel and sure enough, there was some gunk plugging the screen for the pump, it just wasn't getting the water it needed for pumping and turning off. I pulled the gunk away and it pumped some water and turned off. I threw the panel switch and got a little more water out and it was good to go. But had I left it, or no one heard it, he surely would have run the batteries down in a few hours. My neighbor has told me he has fixed my dock line a time or two over the years, especially after storms and heavy wind days. South Jersey has crazy weather in the summer/fall.

My safe guards are dual pumps attached to different batteries. They both ride on the same panel switch, but directly connected to different batteries incase one goes dead. Additionally, having a clean bilge is super important to keep the pump from getting clogged or not pumping efficiently. Like Grant said, it's a risk to leave a boat in the water for 4-6months a year, but if your diligent about it, then there should be no problem.


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