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-   -   Transmission "BLEW UP" need help!!! (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=784756)

astroman 11-15-2010 12:36 PM

Transmission "BLEW UP" need help!!!
 
We have a 2005 malibu lsv with a 340 and the transmission pretty much exploded. The clutch pressure plate actually went through the bell housing and then cut clean through a bunch of wires. Any ideas how hard it is to pull the motor, If I even need to, find and replace the transmission or how much it would cost to have it done at a shop? This really sucks this is the time of month were the lake is glass and there not a soul out, I really need to get back out as soon as possible

shawndoggy 11-15-2010 12:47 PM

Sounds like the damper plate...

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/..._1#entry423316

11-15-2010 1:26 PM

If you don't have a place that you can easily attach a block and tackle to lift the engine up with an easy way to do it is with a couple 2x4's and two "Machinist's Jacks". They are very easy to use and I have used them several times when installing or removing boat transmissions.

you_da_man 11-15-2010 3:42 PM

Well an acquaintance of mine had a similar issue with his 04 LSV this past summer and it cost him about $1,000 but he cheated his insurance out of $3,000 ($4k total) by having passengers lie to the insurance and say they hit something in the middle of the lake. Dumbass insurance company sent a guy who didn't know anything about boats. Almost 300hrs on his boat and he rarely serviced it. I actually saw his damage and sounds just like what you're describing. I towed him in so I know he didn't hit anything (no underneath damage)

polarbill 11-15-2010 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by you_da_man (Post 1646136)
Well an acquaintance of mine had a similar issue with his 04 LSV this past summer and it cost him about $1,000 but he cheated his insurance out of $3,000 ($4k total) by having passengers lie to the insurance and say they hit something in the middle of the lake. Dumbass insurance company sent a guy who didn't know anything about boats. Almost 300hrs on his boat and he rarely serviced it. I actually saw his damage and sounds just like what you're describing. I towed him in so I know he didn't hit anything (no underneath damage)

Your friend is a POS.

spencerwm 11-15-2010 4:27 PM

It is actually a somewhat common issue with Malibu's. We had it happen on our 2005 Malibu VLX. When the flex plate granaded it sent pieces up into the motor compartment and did serious damage. It cut through the wiring harness and ripped open a bunch of hoses. I have talked to two other 2005 Malibu owners that had the same experience. We ended up buying a new transmission at Active Water Sports in Portland Oregon which was not cheap. I can't remember the exact cost.

It is caused by a misalignment which is usually the result of running with a bent prop. Our prop looked fine but it wasn't. I am really surprised that this issue has not injured someone sitting on that back seat.

guido 11-15-2010 4:38 PM

Spencer, could you elaborate on why a bent prop would cause this?

I've seen flex plate failures before. It usually occurs when the transmission is misaligned on the back of a motor (hung up on a dowel pin or something is pinched between the bell housing and the engine block, etc when it is assembled).

This sounds like a fatigue failure issue that deserves a recall if it's happening regularly. A flex plate is not a wear item. Theoretically it should never fail.

bawshogg 11-15-2010 5:14 PM

I believe on marine applications it's actually called a dampner plate. It has rubber/spring torque dampners that isolate engine pulsations to the input shaft of the trans. It is not the same design as an automobile application. I don't think they are a "wear" item either, but they do have parts that can wear prematurely, and think that was the case with these. I would think about contacting Indmar about this. I KNOW that they know that this was an issue with this vintage of powertrains in the Malibus. There has been alot of buzz about this very issue over on TMC. I even recall that Indmar also has an "updated" dampner plate to keep this from happeneing.

liveoz 11-15-2010 5:17 PM

This is a very common problem in 2004-2005 Malibus. It happened to mine and 2 friends as well. You should not need a new transmission, just a new damper plate, bell housing and possibly starter.

This is a known issue and should be recalled by Inmar. They would not even respond to me when I contacted them about this. If someone does get hurt, I will certainly testify against Inmar and Malibu. I spent about $800 to have it fixed but I removed all of my seats and and lockers and so I saved a lot on labor.

bawshogg 11-15-2010 5:19 PM

A quick search also proved that it was not only the Bu's that had this problem, but other manufacturers using Indmar powertrains also have reports of that exact concern.

07launch22ssv 11-15-2010 5:26 PM

this can commonly be caused by engine misalignment, which can be cause by a bent propeller (vibration) there is a service interval for this to be checked not sure what it is but every 100hrs sounds right to me.......

dont be too quick to blame a manufacturer when you didnt follow the recommended service intervals....

skyski1 11-16-2010 4:25 AM

My 2004 Malibu 23 LSV Hammerhead blew up too. It had nothing to do with alignment or prop vibration. It had everything to do with a defective damper plate. Mine failed in year two with 75 hours on the clock, so it was covered by the warranty. The shops charge to Malibu/Indmar was 1700.00. The damage was to the damper plate, bell housing, flywheel, starter, trans cooler, and various wires and oil lines.
Side note..............if you replace the trans cooler, make sure you use genuine parts. The guys that did my work used a smaller aftermarket trans cooler. Stay far away from Lake Region Repair in Virginia. They are pure evil. Their aftermarket part set me up for 4-5 trips to the dealer with an overheating trans before they finally figured it out that the wrong trans cooler was used.
More fun with Lake Region Repair...........when I told their mechanic he put the wrong viscosity oil in my boat, he said " The velocity of all oil is the same, so we put the same oil in every boat we service". Apparently they did not only mess up my boat, but they mess up boats all day long. :o) Velocity. Jackass.

baitkiller 11-16-2010 6:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07launch22ssv (Post 1646169)
this can commonly be caused by engine misalignment, which can be cause by a bent propeller (vibration) there is a service interval for this to be checked not sure what it is but every 100hrs sounds right to me.......

dont be too quick to blame a manufacturer when you didnt follow the recommended service intervals....

Stuff and nonesense.

Its' a bad drive plate, Indmar didnt make it but they did put it on their engine.

liveoz 11-16-2010 2:58 PM

^^^^^

Andrew,

This is a KNOWN problem. Defective Drive plates (they are now made differently to prevent this exact failure)

I am sure mis allignment could cause similar failures, but for all of those with these plates in their boats, they either have failed or will fail if they are prone to any loads over a period of time. I think Malibus probably fail more often due to the extra load created by the wedge.

bill_airjunky 11-16-2010 3:08 PM

We had one fail in an MC Prostar 190 that had like 600 or 700 hrs on it. The thing had been making some noise right up till the time it blew apart.
Their not always a catastrophic failure either. Ours blew apart inside the housing but didn't damage anything else.

astroman 11-17-2010 8:04 AM

Thanks for all of the feedback everyone. What are the chances that I have to replace the whole transmission or just the bell housing and the plate, and how can I test to see if the transmission is shot?

guido 11-17-2010 1:31 PM

You won't necessarily be able to see if there is trans damage until you get it apart. There could be damage inside the bellhousing, but chances are that the trans is fine if it was working well before the drive plate failure.

Again... I ask the same question as was propositioned above; How does a driveshaft alignment issue cause failure of a component between the trans and engine? If it were a drive plate on the back of the trans I would understand that, otherwise... BS.

liveoz 11-17-2010 2:22 PM

If it is indeed your damper plate, which it sure sounds like then most likely no damage to the transmission. You are much more likely to damage teeth on the starter or flywheel, but very unlikely it would have damaged anything in the transmission. if you are looking to save money on the repairs, you can save a lot by removing all of the seats and frame around the motor. This is very easy to do but time consuming, so it will save a lot in labor cost.

bawshogg 11-18-2010 7:43 AM

Eavn, I agree. No way engine alignment in relation to the prop shaft would cause this.Now like previously stated, an alignment issue between the trans and engine could definetly cause this. Missing alignement dowells or loose bellhousing bolts would be the only real cause for that though beyond MAJOR manufacturing issues. Stuff like that usually gets started by someone that does not have a very good sense of the way mechanical things actaully work. Then they spout off some "magical" reason things failed.

spencerwm 11-18-2010 11:59 AM

We had to replace the bell housing, starter and some other engine parts that got hit by shrapnel. The transmission as a whole was in working order which did save money.

How it was explained to me.. Because of continued vibrations caused by the bent prop, over time mounts loosened causing a miss-alignment between the motor and the transmission. It wasn't a direct result of the bent prop. Our dealer until last year was Bridge City Water Sports in Portland which I am guessing did not ever check the alignment or our engine and transmission mounts. I know we had taken it in to look at a vibration. Frankly I can't be sure they even changed the oil.

liveoz 11-18-2010 5:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Basically the main difference in the bad plate and the good plate is the way the springs secured and enclosed. Although these are not the oem plates, you can see how the one with the exposed springs can be a problem. When it fails, that spring which is actually pretty heavy, goes flying around at 4000 RPM, The Bell housing has no chance. On the upgraded plates, the springs are encased, so even if it does fail (which is extremely rare), the spring will not be able to wreck havok.

I restate, that this should have been a recall, the potential for someone to get hurt or killed is remote but possible. The potential for significant damage is already proven. The newer design used by Inmar seems to be a lot more bullet proof.

frosty2469 11-19-2010 7:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liveoz (Post 1646769)
Basically the main difference in the bad plate and the good plate is the way the springs secured and enclosed. Although these are not the oem plates, you can see how the one with the exposed springs can be a problem. When it fails, that spring which is actually pretty heavy, goes flying around at 4000 RPM, The Bell housing has no chance. On the upgraded plates, the springs are encased, so even if it does fail (which is extremely rare), the spring will not be able to wreck havok.

I restate, that this should have been a recall, the potential for someone to get hurt or killed is remote but possible. The potential for significant damage is already proven. The newer design used by Inmar seems to be a lot more bullet proof.

My '98 Mastercraft Maristar (LT1/Hurth v-drive) had a dampner plate with the exposed springs like those pictures, there were small cracks in the corners of the 'windows' the springs are in.

The replacement dampner plate did not have any springs in it at all, it has 4 metal pucks, each puck has a hard black bumper on one side, and the other side has a bumper that is semi-transparent, looks like a skateboard wheel. Sorry no pics of the pucks, but here is what the plate looks like (this is the entire dampner plate, not just the center of it!) : (thanks SkiDIM)

http://www.skidim.com/images/31708.jpg

bear 11-19-2010 8:29 AM

I have an 05 VLX and the same thing happened. After it was all said and done it cost $4,157.68 and the dealer had my boat for 6 months! They took for ever to get it done got to love Paradise water sports.
After talking with the dealer they said it is very common of the 05 model year. The thing that pissed me off is that they new that it is an issue and didn't recall it or send a letter out stating their is an upgrade plate they could install for less than $100!!!! If I knew this was an issue I would have for sure paid $100 to get the new upgraded plate!


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