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-   -   Lead in a sanger-how much weight is ok for trailer? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=782158)

typhoon 07-29-2010 9:55 AM

Lead in a sanger-how much weight is ok for trailer?
 
I have 140 pounds of lead in the bow and am thinking about adding 140 more to the rear. is the extra 280 pounds bad for the trailer and or tow vehicle? i believe the sanger v210 is about 3800 pounds with fuel.
Thank you

lifetimewarranty 07-29-2010 10:08 AM

According to the Sanger website, the v210 is 2890lbs.

I know some people that run 600lbs of lead, on Mastercrafts, and don't have any trailer issues. I believe that the trailer should have some axle ratings on it somewhere. Take your setup to the local dump and give them a ten spot to weigh you. That way you can be sure of exactly what you are running - make sure to put your gear in and fill the tank.

I can't imagine that 280lbs is a big deal, though.

mendo247 07-29-2010 10:16 AM

As long as you dont have a Sport Boats tube trailer with the bunk supports in the middle of the tube you should be fine.

dave27 07-29-2010 10:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
If you have the sport boat trailer with the bunks welded this way you will be fine.

07-29-2010 10:34 AM

IMO lead is just plain old stupid in every scenario....

1. You are carrying it around all the time wasting gas.
2. It is not buoyancy neutral like water ballast and will help in the sinking of your boat.
3. It gives your insurance company an "out", sorry the boat was weighted with lead when it sunk, so we are not going to cover it.
4. Your boat was never designed to carry lead and have that much weight in one small static location.
5. I could go on and on, but I won't! Lead is just dumb! Use water ballast, it's safer and causes less wear and tear!

bill_airjunky 07-29-2010 11:10 AM

I carried about 500 lbs of lead & steel in my MC 205 & tandem axle trailer for 7 or 8 years with no problems.

Now I have about 320 lbs of lead in the Malibu Vride & Extreme tandem axle trailer. I find that I can't have it all sitting in the bow, but if it's distributed around the boat, it's not an issue.

You can definitely go overboard with lead, but 300 - 500 lbs of it isn't it in my book.

PictureMeRollin 07-29-2010 11:17 AM

easy answer: it will add more wear and tear. exactly how much?..here's a start: hope u like calculus.

added_work=(new_weight load factor) / (ρV2 area) -(originalweight load factor) / (ρV2 area)

hatepain 07-29-2010 11:19 AM

I have over 800lbs in lead and batteries. When not in use I distribute the load evenly throughout the boat. I just had a new trailer built by SBT last December and it is rated at 5500lbs if that helps.

camassanger 07-29-2010 11:33 AM

Hate, why the new trailer? Because of the weld issue? I am starting to see mine break thru a bit. Dave's solution looks like it would probably work fine... Was the ProShop involved at all? I am thinking about approaching them about this trailer problem, presumably they've seen it before. Not sure what they would charge to make it right.

hatepain 07-29-2010 12:14 PM

I only got a new trailer because my idiot friend totaled my last one launching me. He went to deep, dropped the wheels of the end of the ramp which hooked a cross member on the cemement launch. Since he couldn't get the boat out he put the desiel truck in four low and ripped it out. It was so hard he totally bent the first cross member back, snapped welds and when the tires hit the cement he dented the schitt out of the rims.

I've never had a problem with my trailers other than that. Yes TPS was invovolved in me getting a new trailer, dealing with SBT is a total pain in the ass. They rarely answer their phones. Call Don and let him know whats up, He'd want to know.

guido 07-29-2010 12:16 PM

Hate.... Yikes.

I ran about 1200lbs extra in my DLX. No problems at all. Except that is wore the tires on the inner edges. It did that before the weight, though, too. You should be fine with that limited amount of weight.

ralph 07-29-2010 1:10 PM

I have a VM custom under my boat and it is sweet. Total allowable weight is 5500 pounds. I carry around 800 pounds of steel disks (The scrap they punch out of washers).
I carry almost all the fixed weight in the nose but when I load the boat on and off the trailer I move 300 pounds (6x50 pounds bags) to the back of the cabin. This places the weight over the axles rather than on the tongue and allows the nose up a bit so it isn't so hard on the trailer bunks.

Sam I would say the following:
1. We only ride so having the boat with 800 extra pounds isn't a big deal, if we we go for a cruise I normally take a few hundred pounds out.
2. True
3. Only if you exceed the capacity plate
4. The steel disks mold to the side of the boat so don't have any pressure points
5. Supplementing a water based ballast system with fixed weight allows us to run a pro quality wake without hand filling sacs and having exposed weight everywhere, it is a great solution IMO.

dave27 07-29-2010 1:13 PM

Derek. SBT will fix your trailer for free, If you want to drive all the way out there.

camassanger 07-29-2010 1:40 PM

Dave, seriously? tell me more. How do I connect with them? Actually, that's a fair distance, but if they were to really fix it up right, i might be willing to make the drive (and it's just past Shasta for me, so one more reason to head down :-)

bhyatt_ohp 07-29-2010 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIngram (Post 1615363)
IMO lead is just plain old stupid in every scenario....

WYO (well your opinion) sucks. 280lbs is next to nothing, about the same as having a full fuel tank or a couple of people in the boat. The boat was designed to carry weight up to the USCG capacity plate, in any and every location. Do guests in your boat have to lay down to distribute weight? Heaven forbid someone sits up in the nose of the bow - it may break the hull in half while on plane :eek:

Supplementing ballast with lead is a great idea to provide extra weight that tucks nicely into tight areas, not compromising a ton of space. Same goes for sand in good quality sand bags. To the original post author - you may want to consider sand if your just doing about 300lbs. You can get it for about $2.50 per 50lb bag, and find good quality sand bags at army surplus stores, or online for $1 per bag. So basically, $20 for 300lb of weight, which isn't too bad. Check on your trailer rating, but normally running up to about 1,000lbs of lead or sand doesn't cause any problems.

May burn a tad more fuel, but its worth it. Life is short, don't waste your time riding on a small wake.

alanp 07-29-2010 3:43 PM

i carry about 700 lbs in my san. single axle trailer. no issues. i carried about 1100 lbs in my old supersport with a dual axle trailer, no issues.

07-29-2010 3:48 PM

Quote:

Brandon Hyatt (bhyatt_ohp) Join Date: Oct 2007 Today, 2:23 PM Reply Quick Reply
WYO (well your opinion) sucks.
WRONG! Your analysis is wrong in every way. People weight and fuel weight is or is very close to being neutrally buoyant. Call your insurance company, the coast guard (you brought them up), or the boat manufacturer and all three of them will tell you that lead is a bad idea.

thor 07-29-2010 4:41 PM

I run 600lbs of lead in my boat plus water weight. I was concerned about leaving the lead in the boat when trailering to the lake so I simply put all of the lead bricks in the back of my pick-up. No problem carrying 600lbs of lead in the back of a 1 ton pick-up. Not to mention it is a good warm-up exercise moving the lead from the truck to the boat.

4white 07-29-2010 4:58 PM

Being a rather lazy person, water ballast is cheap and easy. I have a V215 and to move from the factory of 1000 pounds to 3100 ponds I have only spent $700 CAD. Easy to add and remove, I did look into the lead option and it became quite complicated. Just my two bits.

liquidmx 07-29-2010 4:59 PM

Bad ideas never worked so well! I prefer lead myself. As far as trailering...that's everyone's journey. For long hauls I prefer to pull it out completely and just run an additional 750lb sack (or two) if needed. For local stuff, it stays in.

wake_upppp 07-29-2010 5:13 PM

250 lbs lead in the nose of my v210 since just about the day it was new...no issues.

camassanger 07-29-2010 5:45 PM

Richard, how did you get to 3100 with your 215?

wake77 07-29-2010 5:57 PM

I don't think the motor in anyone's boat is neutrally buoyant. That is what will quickly sink your boat, not a few hundred pounds of lead.

An extra 280 lbs on your trailer is nothing.

07-29-2010 6:04 PM

Nope, the boat designed for the weight of the rigging... Try again.

When your boat is on the bottom of the lake try giving the recovery company these lame excuses, and more importantly, your insurance company.

With the stock rigging and nuetrally buoyant ballast your boat will only get severely swamped, with lead it ends up on the bottom.

wake77 07-29-2010 6:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I would almost guarantee that there is not one ounce of lead (added for ballast) in this boat.

07-29-2010 6:40 PM

If you want a nice hard wake Lead is the way to help get you there... I run 700 pounds of lead place all over my boat, as lond as you don't have to much in one spot your fine... If you sink you boat lead is the last thing to worrie about... I mean what did you do to sink it in the frist place.....

westsiderippa 07-29-2010 6:47 PM

lead is the only way to go for us guys keeping our boats on the delta. i have a lot of lead in my boat. as for the trailer issue that little of lead will do nothing but harm your gas millage my boat has been sitting with 1600+ lbs for 3 years and my trailer has not bent warped cacked etc.. now my tires on the other hand are taking it hard. but i dont tow my boat more than a few hundred yards and if i need to take in, 1 time, for warranty work i take the lead out, common sense there. but again our situation on the delta is unique. we dont spend time cruising and filling bags, its all spent riding. we get in ride get out like clock work on a daily basis.

07-29-2010 7:06 PM

Yup, and that boat is still on the surface, if it was filled with lead it would be on the bottom.

Use a sack filled with water for ballast...

dave27 07-29-2010 7:51 PM

Richard, I want to know how you got 3100lbs of water ballest in a V215 without having sack on seats and floors, if that is possible.

I tow with about 300 of lead in my boat, over the axles. No prolbems. I run just over 2400lbs of water/lead in my boat. I love it. I have about 700 lbs of lead in my boat all the time. Its worth it. I move 400 out when I tow.

Derek, yes SBT will pay or at least for me about 3 years ago. I elected to have it don down in SJ, CA b/c I didn't want to the boat and trailer there and back.

SO the bottom line here, the start of this thread, is this. If you evenly distribute the weight in your boat over you trailer and don't exceed the trailers capacity. YOU ARE FINE. Case cloesd.

Walt 07-29-2010 8:19 PM

I've towed my V210 with 800+ in hard weight before and didn't have any issues but I don't think it would be a great idea to do that on a regular basis. I wouldn't think twice about 300 pounds though.

4white 07-29-2010 9:35 PM

Hey Derek

I did the Wake Makers 1100 bag retro fit on both sides in the back, 500 in the centre and one 400 Fly High bag in the bow. Once filled it replaces the center bow cushion.

travisz 07-29-2010 11:26 PM

From experience, I had an 05 V210 on a VM trailer. I have 800lbs of lead and a fuel tank of fuel and snapped a crossmember of the trailer completely off on road side of the trailer. Beware!! I noticed extreme visable signs of fatique and didnt do anything about it. It took about 2 years to finally snap. But I will say will 800lbs of lead and 3k of water, that boat is sitting hella low and throughs a mean wake. Oh and If you are trailering with lead in the boat, upgrade your tires asap or you will blow them very fast. Good luck man, safe boating.

liquidmx 07-30-2010 8:48 AM

I think the main thing that keeps me from trailering long distances here in Cali(bay area) is the road's more than the lead. Our roads are HORRID!!! Now if we had roads similar to my experience driving in Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. I wouldn't hesitate to throw more lead in the boat. I cringe every time I tow since I am constantly dodging pot-holes and watching for extreme inclines and declines...nothing more nerve racking than watching your trailer catch air with extra weight in the boat.

camassanger 07-30-2010 9:48 AM

Thanks guys, just talked to Sport Boat trailers in Patterson, CA. they are making up a set of replacement bunk supports - Im guessing they will look like Dave's diagram above. I am way too far from Patterson to take it in, so I asked them to ship them to me and I'll get a local welding shop to weld em up.

hatepain 07-30-2010 9:56 AM

Thats good to hear Derek. SBT once gotten ahold of has good customer service. I can tell you form experience that driving there is a looooong way. Especially for me.

guido 07-30-2010 10:13 AM

We would have to fill our entire boat full of water to get the weight we're looking for.....

Sam, you're on the money, but you'll never get the same wake/versatility out of water that you get from lead. You can get weight in much more concentrated spaces with denser material. We run both lead and water. Lead fits nicely under the seats. I also supplaments sacs in spaces where you can only get so-much water weight (ie rear lockers).

It's risky to run lead, but if a boat is going to sink, it's doomed anyway. Once it sinks past the rub rail it's generally totalled. As for insurance..... I doubt they'd ever find evidence of lead. Usually the first thing a boat does is roll over when they sink. The lead would almost for sure end up on the bottom of the lake/river. And trust me.... just because you run just water, or no weight at all, it doesn't mean your boat wont sink. I've seen it live and in person. Boats do sink.

bill_airjunky 07-30-2010 10:35 AM

Whats funny is how people define "sink". Some people apparently think that a boat is only "sunk" if it sitting on the bottom of the lake. And then it's toast.
But a boat can "sink" in it's boat slip, and only go to just below the surface of the water. It could be just as trashed as a boat sitting at the bottom of 20' of water.
And the inverse, many times a boat sitting on the bottom of the lake has just as much chance of a full recovery as one that only sank to the below the surface.
A ton of lead may take the boat to the bottom, but 300 lbs of it isn't likely to do it.
And if your insurance company finds your boat sitting below the surface with 3000 lbs of water ballast, and a dozen people on board, you have just as much chance of them denying your claim as if you were full of lead.
The bottom line is be smart about it. Don't overload your boat so bad when the conditions don't allow it.

07-30-2010 10:51 AM

Ahhh... It's Friday!

Well, I have personally seen the bill for bringing up a boat from the bottom of lake Powell, it was $9,800. The boat was a Correct Craft which was designed with foam and would not have sunk to the bottom if it didn't have lead in the boat. The boat caught a roller from a tour boat heading out from the marina while going through the Narrows. The guys State Farm Insurance denied the claim because he had lead in the boat and they determined it to be overweighted. The boat was a total loss and he had to pay to have it removed from the bottom or face an even larger fine from the National Park Service.

If you believe that it is safe to carry lead on your boat, more power to you, but in the case of an accident, your insurance company will most likely not cover your claim if they find out you had lead in the boat. Your manufacturer will also most likely void your warranty if they find out.

A big wake is fun, but lead is just dumb. If your trailer tires are wearing prematurely, and your bunks are breaking what do you think the lead is doing to your boat?

My advice is to learn proper technique...

wake77 07-30-2010 12:56 PM

What if they found a bunch of empty fat sacks? What if they found a cooler full of beers? What if they found out you had 15 people on your boat? Etc.?

If you boat is overweight, it's overweight; lead or no lead. But on the same token, if my boat sinks and say I do have 300 lb of lead on board and three people (well below the weight limit), how can an insurance company deny a claim?

07-30-2010 1:21 PM

Quote:

Jeremy (wake77) Join Date: Jan 2009 Today, 12:56 PM Reply Quick Reply
What if they found a bunch of empty fat sacks? What if they found a cooler full of beers? What if they found out you had 15 people on your boat? Etc.?

If you boat is overweight, it's overweight; lead or no lead. But on the same token, if my boat sinks and say I do have 300 lb of lead on board and three people (well below the weight limit), how can an insurance company deny a claim?
- Fat sacks are neutrally buoyant.
- Beers for the most part are neutrally buoyant.
- People for the most part of neutrally buoyant.

In each of those three overweighted scenarios the boat would NOT have ended up on the bottom of the lake, it would have remained, sunk none the less, on the surface as it was designed to do. With lead in the boat the boat sinks to the bottom.

This boat is submerged below the waterline or is sunk or swamped, but it is still floating due to its design. It was built with flotation foam through the inside of the hull, with lead this flotation is overcome and the boat goes to the bottom.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...swampboat1.jpg

In my previous Lake Powell example the guy had to pay for his boat to be recovered from the bottom. Believe me, the recovery bill for this boat would be much, much cheaper than the one at the bottom.

bill_airjunky 07-30-2010 1:51 PM

Right on, Sam. I hear you loud & clear. And Powell is a place that I have on my bucket list.

We have a guy here in town who ran his X1 into some mud one day when the lake level was going down (reservoir run by the local power company). The claim came thru for recovery of the boat. They found out he had full ballast tanks & a sack or two on board. Recovery denied. Get it yourself.

Obviously he should have drained everything & removed the sacks from the boat. And frankly I don't know any more than what he told everyone. But this boat wasn't even sunk, just stuck in the mud.

Regardless of what you use for ballast, you still have to be smart about it. There are no freebies.

liquidmx 07-30-2010 5:25 PM

My advice is to learn proper technique...hahaha. Yeah buddy, cuz small wakes are just as fun for those of us with "proper technique", LOL.

07-30-2010 6:37 PM

A lot of bad technique is compensated with a big wake...

Of course a big wake is fun...

bwake 08-04-2010 3:21 AM

This is an interesting post as i was thinking about adding some lead weight, but due to the vehicle I tow with and the distances id rather not.

Have any of you guys used one of the integrated bow sacks? http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-i...d-bow-sac.html
I know there isnt much room there on a V210 up front, but i was thinking that water weight there (even if only 300/400 pounds) would be better than nothing.

At the moment i run 900lbs in the lockers (450lbs each) and 580lbs in the centre area going into the bow. Ideally that sack would then go into the front locker (ive got a 97 without the integrated ballast) and id get some more ballast in the nose to even it up a bit better.

At my riding level i dont need a big wake, but its a hell of a lot of fun with one

08-04-2010 2:00 PM

I have one in my supra and love it....... Also I have 700 pounds of lead and wow my boat is still floating...also my trailer is doing fine....

westsiderippa 08-04-2010 10:32 PM

bad technique on a slumped wake means your getting knocked the f out.

wake77 08-04-2010 11:05 PM

^No Sheet. I don't see how a big wake "compensates" for bad technique. If you can't go W2W on a small wake, you dang sure aren't going W2W on a big wake.

ralph 08-04-2010 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwake (Post 1617415)
THave any of you guys used one of the integrated bow sacks? http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-i...d-bow-sac.html
I know there isnt much room there on a V210 up front, but i was thinking that water weight there (even if only 300/400 pounds) would be better than nothing.

You would be lucky to get 200 pounds of water under the bow seats in the V210. Not worth the trouble IMO. Triangle bag with a bow filler cushion across the isle would be a better bet.
http://www.xairwakeboarding.com/products/ballast/W706/


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