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-   -   Moomba goes to Illusion tower? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781870)

polarbill 07-21-2010 12:35 PM

Moomba goes to Illusion tower?
 
This is kind of interesting.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1855365076.html

razzman 07-21-2010 12:51 PM

It's an option for 2011 models. I guess since Malibu let it go Skiers Choice picked it up.

05mobiuslsv 07-21-2010 12:51 PM

If you can't beat them join them right? hahaha.

jacobs0222i 07-21-2010 1:11 PM

Met craft went out of business so Skiers Choice must have purchased the mold and are making them themselves. Tige did the same thing.

tyler97217 07-21-2010 1:15 PM

I think Extreme Tower Products (XTP) purchased the rights to the Illusion and Skiers Choice uses XTP for their towers. This would all make sense then. Might be wrong, but sounds very logical and I had heard XTP purchased rights to the Illusion.

razzman 07-21-2010 1:16 PM

I believe XTP is making them for Skiers, they make the standard towers.

jacobs0222i 07-21-2010 1:23 PM

that works too.

mendo247 07-21-2010 1:38 PM

Looks killer on that boat.

tampawake 07-21-2010 1:41 PM

Two point towers and you don't have to pay CC for their patent. Good enough reason for me if I am a manufacturer.

spencerwm 07-21-2010 1:53 PM

I like it. Stoked on the new Moomba Tower.

XTP bought the molds from Metcraft and is producing the tower from what I have heard. They are also producing the Illusion towers for Malibu's warranty department.

Pictures are from the Moomba Forum.

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/e...Vw_V2tower.jpg
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/e...nalV2tower.jpg
http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/e...ringassist.jpg

tailgate 07-21-2010 2:01 PM

Come on Skiers Choice!!! While I like the "illusion tower", do something to make it unique? at least Tige put a little change into it... just my opinion

tyler97217 07-21-2010 2:03 PM

I like it. Will they put them on Supra's too?

All the Malibu folks are all gonna get bent out of shape about this cause noone likes the new G3 Malibu towers......

crosenhahn 07-21-2010 2:05 PM

That LSV looks long!!! I like the towers! Like the new windshields as well...very sleek!

ixfe 07-21-2010 2:07 PM

I think the Moomba looks great with the Illusion X tower. But if I was a Malibu owner with that same tower, I wouldn't be happy.

Thet Illusion X tower is very much linked to the Malibu brand. When you see it on the water (even from far away), you immediately know it's a Malibu. Shame on Malibu for letting it go to a competitor.

On the Moomba side, the towers may look good on the boats, but that doesn't mean the company should be proud of it. To me the company comes off looking like cheap rip off artists. Why can't Moomba come up with their own unique design/value proposition instead of copying Malibu's from 5 years ago?

spencerwm 07-21-2010 2:17 PM

I think that the Illusion tower did set Malibu boats apart from other manufacturers for quite a while. It was only time before other designers would want to borrow design cues. I am now stoked on the new G3 tower after using it this season. Like the original Illusion X tower it had to grow on me.

With the Centurion Evolution, Tige' Alpha Z, and Supra Worlds towers on the water I don't think Malibu owners will be shocked to see the new Moombas floating around with a first gen looking Malibu Illusion tower. Props to Tony at XTP for making it happen.

joshugan 07-21-2010 2:35 PM

The illusion looks so much better than the G3 in my opinion. Congrats to Moomba! Nautique owns the classic lines imo, and Moomba is now best looking for modern lines.

shawndoggy 07-21-2010 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfe (Post 1611710)
I think the Moomba looks great with the Illusion X tower. But if I was a Malibu owner with that same tower, I wouldn't be happy.

Thet Illusion X tower is very much linked to the Malibu brand. When you see it on the water (even from far away), you immediately know it's a Malibu. Shame on Malibu for letting it go to a competitor.

Meh, Malibu has all but abandoned the tower and won't warranty them anymore. As a malibu owner with an illusion tower, I'm happy to hear that I might be able to find replacement parts if/when my illusion tower breaks.

cavlxenvy 07-21-2010 3:19 PM

Happy that I can find replacement parts as mentioned above... but as a Malibu owner, it really pisses me off that they are on a Moomba.

Moomba has been copying Malibu for years. No secrets there. I'll get over it though.


Over it now.... until I see one on the water.

polarbill 07-21-2010 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavlxenvy (Post 1611754)
Happy that I can find replacement parts as mentioned above... but as a Malibu owner, it really pisses me off that they are on a Moomba.

Moomba has been copying Malibu for years. No secrets there. I'll get over it though.


Over it now.... until I see one on the water.

That is a ridiculous quote that has no validity.

loudsubz 07-21-2010 4:03 PM

Glad they didn't put that tower on the 2010. Never have and never will like the design.

spencerwm 07-21-2010 4:23 PM

Don't knock it until you try it. I hated the design until I stated using it. It is quite functional for a Honda Civic spoiler. HAHA

bill_airjunky 07-21-2010 4:33 PM

Since Metcraft is dead............. no, no, no, don't take your foot off their head...... that design will probably prove to be very functional & sturdy.

Congrats to all of you who own the POS version of it.

hatepain 07-21-2010 4:41 PM

While I'll admit that I think it looks great I think its kinda lame that they "copied" a tower that is soooo very much part of the Malibu landscape. Whether they bought the rights or not its borderline Ken Land of them.

britshorty 07-21-2010 4:54 PM

Quote:

Why can't Moomba come up with their own unique design/value proposition instead of copying Malibu's from 5 years ago?
I don't mind they have the same tower, I love it on our 07 malibu but at least add some flair or something that makes it a little more distinguisable from a distance. I always get malibu pride when I see another across the lake, now I'll have to question until I get a closer perspective

cavlxenvy 07-21-2010 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbill (Post 1611756)
That is a ridiculous quote that has no validity.

Sold boats for years man. Moomba's idea of R+D was taking apart a Malibu. You would see Malibu come out with something one year and its in Moomba the next. I have sat in them lined up next to each other on more than one occasion.Trust me.

07-21-2010 8:48 PM

Sure. Any examples of this? Malibu dropped Metcraft and XTP bought the molds. It would be stupid for SC not to use it. Don't bash them because they made a smart business decision.

apwrx 07-21-2010 10:04 PM

Use it sure, but at least put some sort of Moomba design cue to it.

tdc_worm 07-22-2010 6:06 AM

just a thought---

a good friend had an 05 Malibu LSV w/ that tower. it is a cast piece (i believe). his tower broke in half on both sides where there was a a metal bung welded in (for a bolt to pass through). i have only heard of two others doing the same thing. when malibu decided to go with the newest tower that has a full stainless hoop, i assumed it was to avoid the possibility of the above happening again.

just thinking out loud...not trying to be biased one way or the other...personally, i prefer a traditional tower....

jeff_mn 07-22-2010 6:23 AM

As a former Moomba owner and someone who will be boat shopping next spring - the Illusion tower was going to sell me on a Malibu next year. I'll be SERIOUSLY considering the Mobius over the V-Ride next spring..

Glorious. Looks awesome. I loved the value in my Moomba.

tampawake 07-22-2010 6:35 AM

Who cares if they copy. So if they copy something then it sucks. No need to be original just make a boat that people want and can afford.

05mobiuslsv 07-22-2010 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc_worm (Post 1612026)
just a thought---

a good friend had an 05 Malibu LSV w/ that tower. it is a cast piece (i believe). his tower broke in half on both sides where there was a a metal bung welded in (for a bolt to pass through). i have only heard of two others doing the same thing. when malibu decided to go with the newest tower that has a full stainless hoop, i assumed it was to avoid the possibility of the above happening again.

just thinking out loud...not trying to be biased one way or the other...personally, i prefer a traditional tower....

They designed a new tower because they are building the G3 in house now and not outsourcing their towers anymore.

hawkeye7708 07-22-2010 6:51 AM

Can't knock Moomba for the tower. If you can pick up such a stylish piece of equipment and add it to your product, why wouldn't you? Sure they COULD have put in some original design work on it, and who knows, maybe down the road they will. But adding that new tower option, i feel will really add to the appeal of the boat. And if you don't have to put any money into designing and altering something that already works, it saves the company money. Just smart business.

stang_killa_ss 07-22-2010 6:57 AM

HOLY hell yes! thats SO sick looking. yet another reason ill never buy a "pay for the name" big 3 boat
man that black angled back windsheild is so bad ass too.

05mobiuslsv 07-22-2010 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang_killa_ss (Post 1612044)
HOLY hell yes! thats SO sick looking. yet another reason ill never buy a "pay for the name" big 3 boat
man that black angled back windsheild is so bad ass too.

Hahaha this thread is getting good.

loudontn 07-22-2010 7:05 AM

The Moomba's are getting a strong tower, the new V2 tower isn't a mirror image of the Illusion X tower, it's an improvement on it. The breakaway system is easier to use, the pins that allow the tower to collapse are easier to insert and remove, the header had an additional piece of oval pipe added down the center for reinforcement and the bases have been totally revamped. Also, the powder that's being used in the powder coating process is a higher quality than the old gloss powder that you saw on Illusion X towers.

http://i32.tinypic.com/2ica5v9.jpg

http://i32.tinypic.com/2wrizr7.jpg

http://i28.tinypic.com/yi2ol.jpg

brycejb328 07-22-2010 7:25 AM

I love the nice smooth lines of the boat in the pics that were posted... the tower looks great

bawshogg 07-22-2010 7:39 AM

Hmmm. Only 2 board rack positions? One per side?

spencerwm 07-22-2010 7:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawshogg (Post 1612066)
Hmmm. Only 2 board rack positions? One per side?

It's a Moomba. Less is more. I am stoked that they kept the Metcraft hole pattern.

The tower will be stronger with the new cross member. I think most people looking really hard at Moombas wouldn't mind a Malibu but for what ever reason it is not in the cards. Moomba will sell more boats this year.

polarbill 07-22-2010 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawshogg (Post 1612066)
Hmmm. Only 2 board rack positions? One per side?

I saw that as well. Dumb move on their part if you ask me. It can't really cost anymore or a very negligible amount to add an extra mounting location.

stang_killa_ss 07-22-2010 9:00 AM

i disagree. i hate the look of empty holes not being used. ruins the clean lines.
4 boards is more than enough.

wake77 07-22-2010 9:11 AM

I guess some guys just see the need for having enough rack space for 20 boards.

polarbill 07-22-2010 9:26 AM

It would have more to do with having space for 4 wakeboards and 2 surf boards at the same time. I suppose you could get the lift off style and then interchange them but then you are pretty limited. Surf boards take up a ton of room and are nice to have up out of the way.

I guess I don't see how having the extra holes really makes a difference in how it looks. You have to be within 20 feet of the boat to even see the holes.

fman 07-22-2010 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfe (Post 1611710)
I think the Moomba looks great with the Illusion X tower. But if I was a Malibu owner with that same tower, I wouldn't be happy.

Thet Illusion X tower is very much linked to the Malibu brand. When you see it on the water (even from far away), you immediately know it's a Malibu. Shame on Malibu for letting it go to a competitor.

On the Moomba side, the towers may look good on the boats, but that doesn't mean the company should be proud of it. To me the company comes off looking like cheap rip off artists. Why can't Moomba come up with their own unique design/value proposition instead of copying Malibu's from 5 years ago?

WOW, Its only a boat.... does it really matter? personally, the Rad-a-cage is still my favorite looking tower of all the boat makers, and its damn strong as well.

fman 07-22-2010 3:23 PM

Congrats to SC again, the Moomba line is looking great.... regardless of who made the tower, it looks nice on the boat and steps up the build. Did notice there is no Z-5 rack, which after having one of them would never buy another boat without one. Will this tower allow a Z-5? it doesnt look like it would work into that style of tower.

bill_airjunky 07-22-2010 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loudontn (Post 1612051)
The Moomba's are getting a strong tower, the new V2 tower isn't a mirror image of the Illusion X tower, it's an improvement on it. The breakaway system is easier to use, the pins that allow the tower to collapse are easier to insert and remove, the header had an additional piece of oval pipe added down the center for reinforcement and the bases have been totally revamped. Also, the powder that's being used in the powder coating process is a higher quality than the old gloss powder that you saw on Illusion X towers.

At least they improved it. The Metcraft design had so many failure points, mainly in the bases. Time will tell if SC / XTC can handle it.

Need more racks? Geez, just drill more holes. It was done all the time on the old design, and is done all the time on a dozen other tower designs.

Regarding the design patents & paying royalties to CC. Seems like that patent should be about time to expire.
And isn't the nav light on the tow knob an MC patent?

bmartin 07-22-2010 4:14 PM

That sure is a Bu-ish looking Moomba!

Was never a fan of the illusion because it interferes with ingress/egress, but can appreciate the visual appeal.

05mobiuslsv 07-22-2010 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmartin (Post 1612364)
That sure is a Bu-ish looking Moomba!

Was never a fan of the illusion because it interferes with ingress/egress, but can appreciate the visual appeal.

I'm sure that was their intention.

bawshogg 07-22-2010 4:18 PM

Drill holes ? For sure, Warranty out the window. The old style IX had cast in reinforcements around the area where the racks mounted. If you doubt it, look up through the inside while the tower is down, you can see them with a flashlight. They were actually casted in a way to support the pressure of the bolt that holds the rack in place. Not sure if I would "just drill more holes" . I have 4 racks on my IX and they are commonly full. Ask anyone who boats with me in PDX. I also think the boat looks sick with the racks all boarded out. Where exactly did people drill drill holes in the older version of the IX? I can't think of where you would put them if you used all 4 locals.

bill_airjunky 07-22-2010 4:52 PM

Or don't drill'em. And you can have 2 racks. It's like drilling holes in your boat for LEDs, a tower or ballast. You do what needs to be done. Maybe not when the boat is brand new. But at some point, lots of boat owners drill holes for lots of reasons.

A number of dealers & rack manufacturers we deal with have had to dril the holes out because the inserts were damaged somehow. Or from the inside, additional speaker brackets. Just one of those dealers was there in PDX before he started ripping off people.
If you use stainless carriage bolts & oversized washers, then it will actually be stronger than using inserts. Metcraft was always so "good" about honoring their warranty anyway so it has always been a way to make what the boat owner had work for what he wanted to do, ie; racks or speakers, etc.

razzman 07-22-2010 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bawshogg (Post 1612369)
I also think the boat looks sick with the racks all boarded out.

That reminded me of a Malibu i saw out on the lake about a month ago. I think he thought the same thing. Had four racks and not an empty slot in them, alot of boards for two guys. In fact i never saw it actually out of a cove and on the lake, he sure played a lot of music though! :D

bawshogg 07-22-2010 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razzman (Post 1612422)
That reminded me of a Malibu i saw out on the lake about a month ago. I think he thought the same thing. Had four racks and not an empty slot in them, alot of boards for two guys. In fact i never saw it actually out of a cove and on the lake, he sure played a lot of music though! :D

Wasn't me, but hey! It happens sometimes. I don't always have mine full, But I have four boards myself that I like to ride. Just depends on the mood. Sometimes I surf, occasionally wakeboard. Sometimes just chill, But if I feel like ridin' I wanna have my stick so I take up 2 1/2 spots with just mine. 3 wakeboard and 1 surf rack total. Soooo, not all that impractical having 4 mounting positions.

ixfe 07-22-2010 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fman (Post 1612335)
WOW, Its only a boat.... does it really matter?

Doesn't matter to me... I don't own a Bu or a Moomba. I was simply making a business observation about branding. Moomba just copied a long standing Malibu distinction. I think that's bush league... from a busines perspective. Reminds me of Hyundai and their rip off designs. Likewise, I think Malibu made a strategic blunder in letting that design get into the hands of a competitor... even if they weren't ever planning to reuse it.

Only a boat...? If that were true you'd own an I/O and never visit this site. But you don't... you have a world-class Supra towboat and you come here regularly... it's a passion, it's a lifestyle. Admit it. :D

vlx10rl 07-23-2010 9:03 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Funny thread...As a past Moomba owner, I think the IX looks great on that LSV. Malibu made a killing with that tower, and hopefully Moomba will do the same. Moombas do really deserve some credit; I turned my '05 over with 400 hours, no problems, and tons of memories.
Having said that, I agree with IXFE to a point. But, I just can't see the IX on my boat. The G-3 belongs there. It's a great tower; pictures don't do it justice. I also think current malibu owners may be more inclined to upgrade to a new one now. So, maybe it was not such a bad decision on behalf of malibu. But we'll see. 2011 will be exciting for sure, at least as far as towers go.

crosenhahn 07-23-2010 9:23 AM

Thats a great looking Wake Setter!!! Love the color combo!

cwb4me 07-23-2010 9:40 AM

i have a friend with a yellow/black malibu with illusion tower it looks sharp. he has never complained about it and uses his boat every week of the season.i really don't think the new tower adds to the clean lines of the wakesetter. they are eye catching boats.

hatepain 07-23-2010 10:14 AM

I know what this reminds me of!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Now I'm by no means infurring that Moombas are akin to a Kia.

fman 07-23-2010 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfe (Post 1612474)
Doesn't matter to me... I don't own a Bu or a Moomba. I was simply making a business observation about branding. Moomba just copied a long standing Malibu distinction. I think that's bush league... from a busines perspective. Reminds me of Hyundai and their rip off designs. Likewise, I think Malibu made a strategic blunder in letting that design get into the hands of a competitor... even if they weren't ever planning to reuse it.

Only a boat...? If that were true you'd own an I/O and never visit this site. But you don't... you have a world-class Supra towboat and you come here regularly... it's a passion, it's a lifestyle. Admit it. :D

I enjoy my boat, and being on the water, but at the end of the day, being with my family and friends is why I am out there.... went out on tuesday with a friend who has an I/O and had a great day on the water.... No doubt, definitely a hobby, and I have an interest in looking at different boat makers, they are all great and each one has different features that interest me. BTW, Your MB is a great looking ride..... really like MB's....

I think Skier's Choice is already benefiting from the new tower, they are getting a lot of looks and talk about it (free advertising), and I do believe the Moomba line is becoming more appealing to people for a great boat, with an excellent price point.


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