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-   -   Tired of Vapor Locking on Supra 21v (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=779235)

cocheese 05-06-2010 8:00 AM

Tired of Vapor Locking on Supra 21v
 
It always happens this time of year and I am sick and tired of it. I contacted the dealer two years ago and he said it is a common problem and to just let it sit and when it cools down it will start. I also contacted Indmar and they said the problem was with the quality of gas now and it is worse in the spring and fall because of winter blend gas. I have read online about a dealer installed second low pressure fuel pump as the end all solution. I just got off the phone with my local dealer and he said the fuel pump kit is $285.54 and after installation it is $434.04. How hard is this to install? Anyone ever installed this themselves?

bill_airjunky 05-06-2010 12:43 PM

SKIDIM.com had a fix for my 205. It was basically a fuel line insulation kit. Cost was like $13. Might work on a Supra too..... definitely worth a phone call to find out what they think.

tailgate 05-06-2010 1:16 PM

The insulation might be the trick, Ive heard or read that pouring cool water on the fuel filter will also fix the problem if I remember correctly... at least so it could get started again.

dru1974 05-06-2010 2:13 PM

vapour locking
 
I know that new supra and moomba boats come with a fuel pump in the fuel tank. Maybe you can put one in your tank, I know they did this to resolve the vapour locking issue's. good luck

cocheese 05-06-2010 3:09 PM

We have been using the cup and water technique, but it is still aggravating. When I turn the key, I am ready to go! Last night was the last straw. I will call skidim and see if they recommend a cheaper solution. I have enough handy man skills to be dangerous and was wondering how hard of an install this pump kit that Supra offers is. My dealer did say that Supra has resolved the problem in new models by putting the fuel pump in the gas tank instead of on the motor.

razzman 05-06-2010 5:11 PM

2 Attachment(s)
So being as the issue is related to how hot the fuel gets in the line, I wonder if a fuel cool can would work? They've been used in racecars for years for the same scenario with success. I would think the only issue would be space.

jimmy_z 05-06-2010 6:11 PM

Cheapest way to combat it would be to leave the engine cover open a little bit. Of course your going to get more noise and have to find a way so that the engine cover doesnt fly completely open when underway.

Rich 05-06-2010 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocheese (Post 1582028)
It always happens this time of year and I am sick and tired of it. I contacted the dealer two years ago and he said it is a common problem and to just let it sit and when it cools down it will start. I also contacted Indmar and they said the problem was with the quality of gas now and it is worse in the spring and fall because of winter blend gas. I have read online about a dealer installed second low pressure fuel pump as the end all solution. I just got off the phone with my local dealer and he said the fuel pump kit is $285.54 and after installation it is $434.04. How hard is this to install? Anyone ever installed this themselves?

I had the same problem. Fortunately mine was under warranty. Dealer installed a secondary full pump. I've not had the problem since.

cocheese 05-06-2010 7:10 PM

Thanks for your help. I have decided to install the second pump from skidim. (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=49-5137) They sell the kit a little cheaper than my dealer. I think it shouldn't be to hard of a DIY project.

greg2 05-06-2010 7:37 PM

If it's a known problem why doesn't the manufacturer make it right? Would we expect that of an auto manufacturer? Not sure if I have all of the story, but it doesn't sound right.

big_boss 05-07-2010 12:14 AM

Dealer added secondary fuel pump to fix the same problem on my '07 Moomba OBV. I had to throw a little bit of a tantrum at the service counter and on the phone, and it took a few days, but they finally agreed to do it without charging me.

I finally had to tell them that if they wouldn't fix it, I was going that day to trade it on a SAN 210, and they caved. (I was serious).

Mine left me stranded 3 times last summer because of this problem.

Keep hounding the dealer. This is not a problem you should have to pay to fix IMO.

Good luck.

Aaron

cocheese 05-07-2010 9:03 AM

I wish I could go into the dealer and raise hell, but I purchased the boat used 2 years ago. If I bought it new from my dealer and they gave me the run around, I would threaten to pull my business the same as Aaron. All the dealers as well as Indmar I have spoken with have been very helpful and informative, but they all have different reasons for the increasing vapor locking problem. I have heard everything from lake temperature to winter blend gas. Because our lake is heated by a power plant, it is hotter than most. Lake temperature was hard to swallow, but you never know.

bill_airjunky 05-07-2010 12:42 PM

As I understood it, the problem is caused from the fuel system being heated by the engine heat & outside temp. Maintaining an increased fuel pressure &/or keeping the fuel system cooler were the two ways I heard you can defeat the problem.

big_boss 05-07-2010 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cocheese (Post 1582479)
I wish I could go into the dealer and raise hell, but I purchased the boat used 2 years ago. If I bought it new from my dealer and they gave me the run around, I would threaten to pull my business the same as Aaron. All the dealers as well as Indmar I have spoken with have been very helpful and informative, but they all have different reasons for the increasing vapor locking problem. I have heard everything from lake temperature to winter blend gas. Because our lake is heated by a power plant, it is hotter than most. Lake temperature was hard to swallow, but you never know.

My bad, I wrongly assumed you bought the boat from them. That not being the case, the effectiveness of a hissy-fit is diminished.

I doubt lake temp would affect it much, if at all. The problem on mine was after engine was hot, and then turned it off for an extended period of time (1+hour), the gas in the fuel pump would vaporize from heat off the engine. The injectors require 60psi to open, and the pump can't put out 60psi when pumping vapor instead of liquid fuel. This only happened on very hot days in midsummer, but I imagine different blends of gas can affect this problem as well. I have read that higher ethanol content will make this more likely to happen.

Dealer installed an in-line fuel pump to force cool gas into the main pump, which when supplied with liquid gas, can now make 60psi and force the injectors open. It was a much lower pressure pump, just enough to force cool gas down the line into the main pump.

One time we tied up to have lunch, and upon returning to the boat it wouldn't run. It would start, choke and sputter for 20-30 seconds, then die. I messed with it for over 2 hours in front of the happy hour crowd at Hula Hut on Lake Austin. I spent most of that time on the phone with a mechanic friend of mine trying to diagnose the problem. Wound up asking another boater leaving the restaurant for a tow, as I tie off and he begins to pull me away, I turned the key, and of course IT STARTED RIGHT UP! Eff me. Pretty embarrasing.

Happened a few days later, after I figured out it was vapor lock. I poured some lake water over the pump, and lo and behold it started right up. That is one way to combat it, but who wants to have to raise the engine cover and pour water in there every time?

Another option I have read about is using the fuel pressure bleed valve to let the vapor out, but I never tried that. Hot gas spraying about my engine compartment was not something I wanted to experiment with.

I can take pictures of what the dealer did to mine next time I am out. Seems like adding the in-line pump shouldn't be too complicated.

Good luck

Aaron

bill_airjunky 05-07-2010 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big_boss (Post 1582676)
Another option I have read about is using the fuel pressure bleed valve to let the vapor out, but I never tried that. Hot gas spraying about my engine compartment was not something I wanted to experiment with.

I used this method on the 205, just covered the valve with a wet rag, then rinsed the rag off in the lake. It worked every time. It's not like buckets of gas come out, it's a very short spray & done.

Same situation on my 205, very hot days, usually after booze cruisin around the lake at idle speed, shut the boat off, 10 minutes later & it won't start. Open the engine cover & let things cool off & it would start like there was never a problem. I was told the engine's heat soak would raise the temp way above any running temp. Combined with the air temps, it would do like Aaron described.

fman 05-07-2010 6:36 PM

In 2008 they added a second fuel pump to all models to alleviate this problem from happening. And it works, have had my boat in 113 degree weather and never once did it ever vapor lock. The SkiDim pump setup should get you going. However, I would contact indmar and heckle them they might just give you the second fuel pump.

greg2 05-07-2010 7:09 PM

Know probelm and based on this thread I believe it should be covered...jujst my opinion.

shawndoggy 06-01-2010 3:26 PM

Robert did the supplemental pump fix the problem? How hard to install for a DIY hack?

wakemikey 06-01-2010 4:55 PM

Stop over to Supraboats.com/bbs this is a common problem as Travis said. Extra fuel pump seems to be the solution. Sorry to hear about the problems.

dudeman 06-03-2010 9:32 AM

cocheese, did you ever get the other pump installed? If you did, how did it work out for you? I was at Belews yesterday and mine vapor locked again. It's going to be a long summer.

widnejr 06-03-2010 10:25 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture of my low pressure fuel pump on my 2002 SSV

cocheese 06-03-2010 12:30 PM

Dudeman - Yes, installed it and so far so good. The only draw back is the noise of the second fuel pump which is easily drowned out by the motor and radio. I didn't install it in the motor box like the above pic. I was told by the mechanic at Grandpas and Indmar to install it just before the fuel filter as close to the tank as possible. It is as simple as drilling holes in the stringer, mounting it and cutting the fuel line. We have tried to make it vapor lock by leaving it sitting after riding with no blower and closed motor box and it fires up everytime. If you want shoot me an email and we will hook up and I will show you how I mounted it. So far it is the best money I have spent on the boat. No more worries! It always sucked knowing you were stranded and not knowing if or when your boat was going to start again!

dudeman 06-03-2010 12:35 PM

Next time I see you out, I'll tool on over and have a look if you don't mind. Thanks.

cocheese 06-03-2010 12:40 PM

Works for me. I also forgot to mention that the kit form skidim is drop shipped from Indmar and includes the wiring harness. The wiring was the only thing that worried me before I purchased it. When I opened the box and saw the wiring harness, it was a piece of cake. You just unplug the wire going to your old fuel pump and plug it into the wiring harness. No splicing or cutting wires. All plug and play! Napa sells a vapor lock kit that is comparable and cheaper, but Indmar's kit comes with wiring harness and upgraded fittings to fit the larger fuel hose.

dudeman 06-03-2010 12:42 PM

Sounds pretty sweet. I'll have to get on skidim on find the pump. Thanks.

cocheese 06-03-2010 12:44 PM

Here is the link:
http://skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=49-5137

dudeman 06-03-2010 12:55 PM

Nice. That's my next purchase.


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