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-   -   new speakers sound blown... odd test... (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778186)

stang_killa_ss 04-03-2010 4:20 PM

new speakers sound blown... odd test...
 
ok stock speakers in my moomba sounded blown. so i put in a set of 4 Clarions. they sounded good the first outing, then 1 week later they had the same blown sound. :( so then i spent alot more money on some really nice Kickers. i put those in and tested them imidiatly. same blown sound. crackly, staticy, typical blown sound. haveing shed money on now 8 speakers and still haveing **** sound i was pretty pissed.
then something came to me, all the blown speakers had all come from the left side. so i went out and did a test, turned the balance on the head unit all to the right side. and the right speakers sounded great!, i could crank them and no distortion.

SO what could cause (repeatedly [3x]) the left side speakers to sound blown, even imidiatly after installing them?

ideas? thoughts on what to try or replace?

chpthril 04-03-2010 4:57 PM

Bad RCA! Swap the left and right RCA's and see if the problem changes sides.

99_slaunch 04-03-2010 5:03 PM

Hope you did not toss the old speakers in the trash. :(

kikitlo 04-03-2010 7:15 PM

I had an issue a few years back where my head unit went bad. I could not get rid of the classic alternator whinning noise. I tried everything. Finally got a new head unit and the problem was fixed.

Try the RCA cables first, if that doesn't work, go to walmart and buy a head unit to test it out. If it is not that return the HU. If it is either keep the one you purchased or go get another. That is how I trouble shot mine. Not exactly the most "honest" way to do it but you might as well take advantage of there return policy.

stang_killa_ss 04-04-2010 6:28 AM

tige mike, (as far as i know) the speakers are being run off the head unit, not a amp. so there would be no RCAs, simply the speaker wires coming out of the back of the head unit wire harness.

shawndoggy 04-04-2010 7:00 AM

buy a deck of same brand so you can plug it into existing stereo harness. If that fixes it, it's your deck. If it doesn't, return it. The new deck's harness would still be "new". Walmart would definitely take the return.

chpthril 04-04-2010 8:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stang_killa_ss (Post 1569211)
tige mike, (as far as i know) the speakers are being run off the head unit, not a amp. so there would be no RCAs, simply the speaker wires coming out of the back of the head unit wire harness.

Ok, you've either got a poor connection on both left speakers or it's in the head-unit.

mdaijogo 04-04-2010 8:25 AM

Make sure to ohm out the speakers. They should read either 2 ohms or 4 ohms depending on what speaker you have.

m-

stang_killa_ss 04-04-2010 9:16 AM

the stock speakers were 4 ohm. i made sure to also buy 4 ohm speakers.

looks like i need to do some more testing.

stang_killa_ss 04-04-2010 11:09 AM

well turns out i was wrong the cab speakers are powered by an amp. so that adds a whole nother kink. another something in the line that could be wrong.
i was fidling with a plug thats in line between the amp and the speakers, and was able to switch the crackle from teh left to the right by switching the wires. so the wire from that plug to the speakers are good, and the speakers are good as well. some how though i put everything back like it was and now the problem is on the right side. not sure how that happened. but it did.

seems like SO much wireing and now i have more variables with the amp in play now too.
not sure where to go next.

99_slaunch 04-04-2010 5:02 PM

Buy a pair of rca's and see if that will fix the problem. They are cheap and you would be able to rule that out as a problem.

joesell 04-04-2010 6:13 PM

If your problem switched sides when you were messing with the wires, my money is on the rca's

chpthril 04-04-2010 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99_slaunch (Post 1569353)
Buy a pair of rca's and see if that will fix the problem. They are cheap and you would be able to rule that out as a problem.

That was probably the RCA cables you switched and the problem moved. Go buy a set of stereo RCA's.

shawndoggy 04-04-2010 6:57 PM

As a second, I had this very same problem in my truck with a bad set fo rcas.... they are very cheap on ebay. Spend $9 and solve the problem.

stang_killa_ss 04-05-2010 5:31 AM

i never touched the RCAs guys. i was messing with the speaker cable that goes from the amp to the speakers, the RCAs go from the head unit to the amp.
there is an inline plug for some reason in that section of speaker wire from the amp to the speakers. thats what i was messing with.

i really appreciate all the help. i will probly try testing those out too. any guesses on whats more likely to go bad, the amp or the headunit?

joesell 04-05-2010 7:04 AM

Can you take a pic of the plug you were messing with? There shouldn't be anything in between the amp and speakers besides speaker wire.

I don't know what it could be for, but if there is a plug, there might e corrosion in there.

philwsailz 04-05-2010 8:03 AM

Cory-

A systematic approach is going to go a long way towards helping you out. You already can make the bad sound switch sides by switching speaker wire, so we know the speakers are good. You have made a good start. Follow me on what to do next:

The next thing to do is to swap the RCA cables gong into the amp, left-for-right and vice versa. Did the bad sound move again? If so the problem is further up the line towrads the head unit. If not, the problem is there between the speaker plugs and the RCA cables. You mention that the bad sound went away briefly, so check the speaker terminals and the plugs for tiny little single strand stay wires that might be shorting out. Sometimes little stray wires can cause the goofy intermittentissue you describe.

Back to swapping RCA's.... If in the paragraph above, moving the RCA's made the bad sound, try swpping the RCA cables left-for-right and vice-versa. Did the bad sound flip sides again? IF so, it is your radio. If not, it is your RCA cables....

Take it one step at a time, from the speakers and work backwards. That systematic approach will isolate the loation of the problem and will allow you to diagnose there, without chasing white rabbits.... Post back whata you find and let us know!

Good luck!

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-05-2010 8:51 AM

joe, the plug is the origonal plug that allowed you to plug the speaker wires into the harness on the headunit. when they added (previous owner) the amp, they just left the plug in line of the speaker wire. i checked the plug, and disassembled it down to bare wires, all was clean and looked like brand new. if i end up haveing to redo the system, yes i will get rid of it and have direct wires. although it was handy for my little test.

Phil, i will try that. thanks so much for the help!

philwsailz 04-05-2010 9:24 AM

Cory-

Re-reading my post.... in the third paragraph, I wrote: "Back to swapping RCA's.... If in the paragraph above, moving the RCA's made the bad sound, try swpping the RCA cables left-for-right and vice-versa.... " I need to add: "AT THE BACK OF THE HEAD UNIT"

You woudl swap RCA's left-for-right at the amp first, as in the second paragraph. In the third paragraph, I am asking you to go that next step closer to the radio, hence swapping the RCa's left-for-right at the back of the head unit. This allows you to test the RCA cables. vs. the radio.

Sorry for not finishing my thought! Hopefully I have not confused you or anyone too badly with that... :)

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-05-2010 11:31 AM

you are very thourough! thanks for the addition! i re-read that 10 times myself and it seemed like it was the same test twice, with different results lol.
i really appreciate your time. i hope to try your tests tonight.

you work for kicker? i went with the KM6000s marine. only speaker i found that could go in my moomba without major work, and dremeling. horrible speaker/seat design on moombas part....but the km6000s are perfect direct fit.

philwsailz 04-05-2010 12:03 PM

Yeah Cory, I work for Kicker; I am the Marine and Specialty Markets guy here. Glad you like the KM6000's! You can also check out the KM6200's for a nice marine coax. Totally sealed, magnetically shielded, ( I know, you prolly don't have a compass but the shielding tightens the magnetic flux in the voice coil gap, so there is a benefit, specifically greater efficiency).

Let us know how the testing goes!

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-05-2010 5:11 PM

the KM6200 wouldnt work. (or any other 6.5" speaker with a grill) i couldnt figure out the integrated grill design on the stock speakers, until i tryied to install those clarions. any standard speaker with a grill, you have to remove the interior to install and dremel away half the damn grill. HORRIBLE design on moomda part. pictures are worth a thousand words. yes the speakers are actually hidden behind the seats and actually touch. the clarions i had to grind the grill away in these areas. the 6200s would be the same way. these 6000s are a dead match in design and profile to the stock speakers, just alot better. :D

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7708/kickerdriver.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7228/kickerpass.jpg


ok i tried your test.

first i did nothing, left it as is and tested. the blown sound was still coming from the right side just as i left it the other day.

next i switched the RCA on the amp. no change. the blown sound was still coming from the right side.

next i put the amp side of the RCAs back like they were before the test above. and then switched the RCAs on the headunit side. no change the blown sound was still coming from the right side.

so what does this tell you?

philwsailz 04-06-2010 6:24 AM

Cory-

Changing up the RCA wiring at the amp with no change tells us it is between the speaker wire plug, and the RCA's, basically at the amp. Can you take one of the other speakers you have and wire it directly to the amp, bypassing the boat wiring and the plug?

You might have a little kitty-hiar single strand of speaker wire shorting something out right at the amp speaker terminals, or you might have a bad amp. You mentioned that the sound is fine sometimes, so I would lean towards it being a little speaker wire short, so check all your speaker connections at the amp and make sure they are neat, without frayed ends touching...

Keep digging, you'll find it! At least we should be good knowing it is not the radio.

What amp is it?

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-06-2010 7:59 AM

gotcha.
ok i will do that, new wires amp to speakers, and elimitate the plug.

i need to clarify that. it has never sounded good. always blown. always. i mentioned the first outing with the clarions i thought it was fixed, my guess is i just had the radio so low i couldnt hear the crackles. its always had this blown sound since i started this endevor with the stock speakers 1-2 months ago (i should clarify though the first year with the boat i didnt have this problem with the stock speakers)

the amp is a jensen 200w, 2 channel. you should warantee it and send me a kicker replacement. cant have mismatched speakers and amps can we! :D hahaa

Cory

99_slaunch 04-06-2010 12:18 PM

If it's never sounded good. I wonder if the + and - wires to the speakers are crossed some where (in line pulg). Our boat has an in line plug that I did not remove and the wires at the amp are opposite what they are at the speaker (copper and steal) colored wire.

stang_killa_ss 04-06-2010 12:31 PM

as i posted above, the boat sounded fine the first year. this just started happening the last 1-2 months

philwsailz 04-06-2010 12:41 PM

I have a few more thoughts, as I think about this.

As I have shared, there is a chance that the speaker wires at the amp are touching, somehow. I also wonder if the pots (the knobs) are dirty. You can take a look at all the amp settings, and note them, then switch the switches back and forth, and turn the knobs up and down, in hopes that the wipers/contacts might be corroded/dirty and "massaging" them a little might clean up the sound.

You might just have a bad amp too! Unfortunately, there is not much I can do about the waranty... :D

Keep us posted Cory-

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-06-2010 1:06 PM

thanks! ill try that too!

i just bought a cheap $55 "dual 300w" amp at walmart so after the speaker wire test i can test the amp. two tests in one night to get this thing figured out. ill try your "fiddle with everything" test before try the new amp though.

thanks so much!

stang_killa_ss 04-06-2010 5:33 PM

well i got the amp removed so i could get to the controls and wires.
first i just wigled the speaker wire connections at the amp. all solid. tested, right side still sounded blown.

next i turned all the knobs several times and fliped all the switches a few times. tested, still sounded blown.

next i unhooked the right side speaker wire, and connected a fresh peice and connected one of the now "extra" stock and clarion speakers. tested. still sounded blown.

next i riped out the old amp and put in the walmart cheapy amp. hooked it all up, and fingers crossed fired it up. tested. i got NOTHING from teh right side, just silence. so i put my ear up the speakers, and listened nothing. just light hissing/static. the left side was playing fine though. shut it all off and was ready to punch something and start throwing $hit :mad:. sat there for a couple minutes and then realized........
..........i had turned the balance all the way to the left at the end of the previous test :D. turned it back to center and BAM! they worked! both sides crystal clear! it was the amp all along! got everything bolted back in and tideeded up. set the gain to allitle above half. and turned on the high pass filter since i have a seperate sub. (the old amp was also setup this way) it switched it from HPF to Full Range a few times and didnt hear any difference.

question what hertz should i have the high pass filter set to? knob has 50-500hz i have it right in the middle about 275 hz. i want mostly highs, with a hint of mids. no bass and only the upper half of the mids.

once i got it all done and tuned (for now) i put this on and CRANKED the volume to 30 :eek: and just enjoyed finally beating this problem. im pretty sure every house in a 10 block radius heard me. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3g1kPGDcbc

phil i cant thank you enough!!!

philwsailz 04-07-2010 6:12 AM

My pleasure Cory-

Glad you got your system working! That balance control can really get you... try mixing in some fader! :D

Your crossover can be set really as low as 50 Hz for the KM6000's, but probably somewhere between 80 and 100 will give you the best compromise between power handling and sound quality. What is the crossover frequency for your sub amp? Ideally, we want to set the sub amp's and the in-boat amp's crossovers where they work together.

Phil
Kicker

stang_killa_ss 04-07-2010 6:49 AM

thanks! i gotta buy ya a round or a lap dance or something man! i was so damn frustrated. thanks a ton.
ok ill turn the crossover down to 50-100. i assume if i had the amp set to Full (not HPF) that knob would do nothing, correct?
not sure on the sub crossover. its just a cheapy marine bazooka tube with built in amp. what should i set its crossover to if the speaker amp is set to 80ish?

thanks again.
Cory

philwsailz 04-07-2010 7:27 AM

Cory-

It is largely an ear thing; there are a few ways that are real wrong, and a whole lot that are largely right. 80-ish sounds about right to me....

Yes, you are correct. With the amp set to FULL, (not HPF) the knob would do nothing.

Phil
Kicker


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