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-   -   Lead and Floatation (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=778173)

wofrankwo 04-02-2010 11:43 PM

Lead and Floatation
 
v230 sanger 2002 ...... i want to ride around with 1100lbs of lead for ballast ..... i feel comfortable with 500lbs ...... could i add more flotation to my boat to drive around with 1100lbs safely?

if i can add flotation to my boat how and what could i use to do this?

taft 04-03-2010 1:26 AM

That is a ton of lead... If you don't feel comfortable with 600lbs more, why not get a fatsac?

I'm thinking you have a way of getting lead very cheaply? Or have run out of room for sacs?

I understand the benefits, but I don't think I'd go more than 5-600lbs myself... but then again - if you're gonna sink a boat, the engine will probably be what takes it down.

wofrankwo 04-03-2010 8:00 AM

i have the fat sacs but i would love to have the floorboard back ..... the 500lb sac im trying to get rid of goes on the floor next to the seat ...... yes i just got a bunch of lead for almost nothing ...... i would think it would be very simple to add more flotation to the boat ..... my concern is for when the kids are driving. hate to turn a small mistake into something more

gunz 04-03-2010 8:11 AM

Frank,I know your pain.
Even Jamesz wont put lead on his boat for that very same reason,but has almost no floor space.
Catch 22 bro.

The most I could/would put in mine would be 300/400 lbs,all under the seats.

Walt 04-03-2010 9:03 AM

I'm running around 1000 pounds of hard weight in my V210 and I still have fatsacks everywhere.

wofrankwo 04-03-2010 9:34 AM

i can put 1100lbs of water under my rear locker and hide it ...... 500lbs lead under the seat ...... i would love to add 600 more along the side under the seat up and down ..... i feel safe with 500lbs because its like having a big block ..... it just seems it would be simple to add more flotation in the hull .... there is plenty of room ...... i know it doesnt take much styrofoam to float 500lbs ..... just want to be sure what i do is SAFE!

wofrankwo 04-03-2010 9:36 AM

walt do you feel safe with all that hard weight in your boat? unsinkable if you got swamped?

duffymahoney 04-03-2010 9:49 AM

Frank, I have a fat sac on my swim platform. It's only 150# but since it's so far back on the boat it makes a huge difference in wave height. If I was you, I would get a custom sac made for your locker or get the new fly high 1100 pound jumbo surf sac. Pretty cheap for how many LB's. It would fill your locker all the way. Do you still have stock tanks? If so remove them and install a big sac. Put lead under it or under the seat.

http://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-jumbo-surf-sac.html

wofrankwo 04-03-2010 10:03 AM

i was actually wrong becuase i can hide 1500lbs of water under my rear locker ( i am going to order 1 big custom sac for that and it should get me another 200lbs ) ..... the lead i would want to use under the seats ...... that way the boat would look stock ..... i have 500 under the front floor and would want to add a 250lb sac on the front seat ...... i was told weighting my boat this way ( weight placement ) would give me a wake almost that of an enzo according to sean cummings who had my exact boat ...... set the boat up close to that the other day and it made a tremondous difference in the wake

duffymahoney 04-03-2010 10:20 AM

Weight in the nose is only needed if your boat can't get on plane or up to speed. If your wave is too tall just surf faster. The bigger the faster the wave the better. Enzo's almost never run bow weight, unless they are very heavily weighted.

rallyart 04-03-2010 10:23 AM

Frank, you need to add floatation or you will sink like a rock if the boat gets swamped. In essence you need to put in closed cell foam that will displace the same amount of water as the lead weighs. If you are putting in 1000# of lead you will need to add enough foam to equal the size of a 1000# fat sac. You have under the gunnals all around your upper hull that could be filled with expanding foam. That would help. You also have under the floorboards but it might be better to use that space to add water and run with less lead.
Boats over 20' are not required to have self flotation like boats under that size are. That means the manufacturer does not normally put in as much to start with.

duffymahoney 04-03-2010 11:02 AM

Running this much weight can be scary, I personally think running lead is more dangerous. Everyone can argue with me, but that's how I feel. Water is safer and with enough pumps can be emptied very quickly. My custom 1500 pound sac takes 7-9 minutes to empty. I am working on getting that down to 5 minutes. I also have 2 bildge pumps. The problem with lead is what do you do with it in an emergency? Just throw it in the water? Fat sacs are neutrally buoyant, but that doesn't mean they are safe either. All in all, I think the next thing for wakeboats is more freeboard. More freeboard = safer boats in rough water and heavily weighted boats.

johnny_defacto 04-03-2010 12:36 PM

Get really good insurance or upgrade your current coverage. Get your floors back and dump that lead in there. I did, and I love it.

wofrankwo 04-03-2010 9:44 PM

okay i can get pourable foam flotation to add to the boat ...... 60lbs flotation per cubic foot ...... 20 cubic feet at about $300 delivered to my door ..... im going to call monday and talk to them to find out if this will be my answer ..... all opinions greatly appreciated

gunz 04-04-2010 9:27 AM

Interesting.....

duffymahoney 04-04-2010 9:28 AM

Where are you going to put flotation? Wouldn't it counter the lead weight you are putting in?

dennish 04-04-2010 2:59 PM

Not sure why people think that their boat will not sink if they use water. If you get a hole in the side of your boat it will sink like a rock because of the engine. It will not float. If you take water over the side in enough quantity you will sink ballast or not water or lead makes no difference. If any thing lead can be thrown overboard quicker than emptying water ballast.

rallyart 04-04-2010 7:42 PM

The boat may sink if you use water ballast but when the boat is swamped that ballast goes neutral. Lead stays heavy. The point of the flotation is to get closer to an under 20' design which is required by government regulations to not sink if it gets swamped or a hole in it. If you get swamped part way a boat with lead, or steel, ballast sinks with less water in it that one with water ballast.

wofrankwo 04-09-2010 6:33 PM

i was informed today by a boat dealer that the boats are only required to have coast guard rating which is when the boat sinks you will have at least something to stand on ...... boat still thrashed ..... so i will add 1200lbs of flotation so i will have something to stand on just in case!

Walt 04-09-2010 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wofrankwo (Post 1571997)
i was informed today by a boat dealer that the boats are only required to have coast guard rating which is when the boat sinks you will have at least something to stand on ...... boat still thrashed ..... so i will add 1200lbs of flotation so i will have something to stand on just in case!

Where will you put the foam ?

wofrankwo 04-10-2010 9:27 AM

up in the front as much as possible .... boat has formed ice chests everywhere so under the front ...... beneath both side ice chests ( under the lead ) ...... may fill up alot of the area under the main seat storage area ........ i think i can get some along the sides of the floor ...... i could even fill up the goofy side rear locker hahah ( my rear lockers hold 1500lbs of water out of site )...... my sanger has so much storage space it shouldnt be a real problem ..... im getting 4 pint cans of this special industrial foam which is supposed to add up to 1200 lbs of floatation ..... i am hoping to get all the lead under the side seat ...... i have 712lbs under the seat now and should be able to fit all that im hoping too ....... its cool because the lead all fits in the ice chest storage so its up off the hull

duffymahoney 04-10-2010 11:16 AM

Frank why are you doing this? Seems strange, why don't you just run less weight? Custom sacs? If you add floatation won't your boat float more? Or does the foam only affect the boat if it gets swamped? I think this would make the wave smaller? I am not a engineer or anything, but something doesn't seem right about it.

baitkiller 04-10-2010 11:54 AM

Duffy, perhaps he rides in a deep lake....

The boat, made of wood, FRP, metal concrete or a newspaper will float as high as the weight of the water it displaces less the added weight of crew and cargo. The foam comes into play in the event of swamping. At that time it's a battle of flotation over dead weight, even steven with displacement having no real influence. The outcome will determine whether the crew can stay with the nearly, but not quite submerged hulk and be rescued and the boat pumped out with relative ease. / or / If the boat goes to the bottom in a hurry the crew is swimming, likely without PFD's and the chance / cost of salvage starts to get a little out of control.

gunz 04-10-2010 12:35 PM

Are you getting an Enzo sack? Thats what you really need,it would be more like Ragboys,fat wake,with little or no sacks on the floor.

I have a line on one,someone I know has an extra.

wofrankwo 04-10-2010 2:09 PM

i forgot to add that the hull only has to float with you standing on it for 20 minutes ( I believe that was the correct time he told me ) ...... duffy the flotation inside only affects when the boat is swamped ...... lead weight or water weight is the same when boat is weighted ..... im a big guy and i need alot more wave then you smaller guys need ...... my kids can surf with 1100lbs in the boat but i cant ...... i do not like fat sacs on the floor or on the seats ...... i will end up having 1400 in the rear locker of water you cant see ...... 1000 under the seat in lead ...... a 250lb sac up front as of now you will see ...... i think the interior being open ( im a family guy with 4 kids and bunches of friends ) needs to be open for comfort

here is the worst part of all of it ...... ive heard rumors about the boats being checked for gross weight capacity ..... we all carry more weight then our boats are rated for ...... basiclly all ballast will be obsolete

rlsv211 04-10-2010 5:24 PM

Really if you have life jackets for everyone you should be safe. In the delta swimming to the edge is pretty easy. When you go to lakes life jackets would cover you. On the delta sinking or swamped is only a matter of a few feet. Will there be anything worth saving? Insurance should cover salvage.

Did you Wakesurf today? Yesterday was pretty good.

ferral 04-10-2010 6:36 PM

Did you check that your trailer is going to be able to handle all that lead, or is that not a concern for you? That's one of the biggest advantages of water ballast, you don't have to haul it on the road.

wofrankwo 04-10-2010 6:49 PM

i keep the boat in the water at the delta ..... ill pull it out to get gas and ill take out half of the lead ..... lead is in little tool bags 40lbs to 54lbs each .... some lead is in 27lb bricks, some in 40lb rolls, some is 1/4" x 1 1/2" plugs ...... ive towed it with 550lbs in it but im only on the road for 20 minutes, if i go to a lake i would pull all the bags out

yea it looked like friday was the day to be out roger when i got home at 6 it was windless, toooo much wind this morning and didnt go out ....... so we are doing taxes instead this weekend ( yawn .... i should say the wife is doing the taxes!! ..... but i gotta hang around ... you knowwwwww LOL )

bmartin 04-12-2010 6:52 AM

A tube or fat sac inflated with air will provide a lot of bouyancy and can be used when needed, but not so easy to mount/store where it will float a boat. Under floor and maybe behind spotters seat would work. Same basic principal to float a sub. Suppose if you had room to store air sacs in places where it could float the boat, you wouldn't have to use lead though. Yet another catch22.


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