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-   -   First Invert HELP (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=777340)

lume1 03-09-2010 6:00 AM

First Invert HELP
Hi, iīve been trying to land a heelside backroll for a while and i think i got the rotation BUT i allways drop the handle, itīs like a mental block, and when i focus to keep it, i land with my back.
Any tips besides duck taping my hands to the handle???

pacifichigh 03-09-2010 6:14 AM

Commit, Commit, Commit

Come in on a good progressive cut, throw you head over you back shoulder AFTER you have popped off the wake, spot your landing, and HANG ON!

hawkeye7708 03-09-2010 6:46 AM

Hanging onto that handle was the hardest thing for me when I was first learning them. When your cutting in, make sure you hit your hardest edge just before the top of the wake and that you've got lots of line tension. When you get pop drop that trailing shoulder and shift the head back, sort of like your holding a phone on your trailing shoulder. Then, unless your looking to grab it, keep two hands on that handle and keep that baby PINNED to your front hip. For that roll your handle doesn't need to move. Keep that sucker in close, and then it'll eliminate the excuse that the handle got pulled out. Then just white knuckle grip that sucker, put the board down and edge away from the wake. You'll get it.

lume1 03-09-2010 6:50 AM

Yeahh i know, i will try next weekend...and i recently tried the toeside backroll, and it felt easier. Is this possible? should i keep only trying heelside or both even though i canīt land either of them?

hawkeye7708 03-09-2010 6:55 AM

Perfectly possible. The TS Backroll has a different rotation and doesn't have the same line load dynamics than the HS Roll. Could totally be a case of different strokes for different folks. I think the reason more people learn the HS Backroll first is that a heelside jump typically is done first and more frequently, not to mention tendency of lots of people to forget about their toeside airs. If you've got the edge and pop off the toeside, give it a rip! ha

lume1 03-09-2010 6:59 AM

Thanks Ben! I will be trying that for sure, the summer over here is going to end soon, so i have to nail it ASAP!

hawkeye7708 03-09-2010 7:02 AM

Ha, our season is about to kick off up here on this coming Saturday. Water is 5 degrees of Celsius fun! haha Good luck! Let us know when ya put it down! Get some pics!

lume1 03-09-2010 7:07 AM

So true, i have friends landing tantrums but donīt even know how to make a toeside W2W, i always try to do a heelside then toside, and so on. At this point i like more jumping toe than heel.
I will be trying both of them, the only problem with the toeside backroll is that almost every time my front foot comes out fo the binding :mad:

hawkeye7708 03-09-2010 7:33 AM

Oh man... yeah, that's definitely no good... how are your boots?

lume1 03-09-2010 7:45 AM

The boots are holding fine, but i donīt know if they will end the season alive lol.

spearing 03-09-2010 8:01 AM

We use to call it the "hundred club" because it took a hundred tries to land the first invert, so don’t be discouraged it will happen.

1st - trampoline training helps to shorten the learning curve (also strapping shoes to skateboard deck is a bonus)

To the water:
- cut out side the wake 8-10 feet LET the boat flatten you out and start to pull you into the wake set your edge deeper and deeper as you get closer to the wake (this is a progressive edge) as you reach the bottom of the wake you should be in the deepest edge STAND TALL and cut away from the boat. Keep the handle at your waist looking over your lead shoulder to spot the landing, see it? Good. Get your landing gear ready................ you are landing back rolls buddy.

Now go do a 360 :) for every invert you learn go ahead a do a spin move this will help your next progression.

behindtheboat 03-09-2010 8:13 AM

Slightly pull the handle in towards your waist line just after halfway through your rotation. This will make it easier to hold on to, and help you spot and set down your landing

ryanw209 03-09-2010 11:50 AM

My advice: subscribe to www.learnwake.com. It was the best investment I have ever made to progress my wakeboarding in a hurry

sippi 03-09-2010 11:58 AM

This may seem odd, but no one has mentioned it yet so i'll post it. when i was trying my first backroll i had the same problem, and it seemed like no matter how much i tried to tell myself to "grow a pair and hang on to the frickin handle" i would chicken out. Partly because i snapped my lower leg on a BS 3 a long time ago and i get scared easily now out there. But I found that it wasn't the rotation that was scaring me it was the fact of going W2W with it, would i make it all the way across or case the wake and wipe out? what if i do this and that .... so how i learned was actually a roller. i had a buddy of mine who was riding that same day out there and told him i was going to stay on the left if he could stay on the right (I'm goofy footed so i needed the roller on the right side of the boat) he didn't care, it was just us 2 out there. so when he passed i would wait till he roller got about 20 feet away and i'd start my progressive edge into it, did everything like i should and landed the very first one! for me it got the fear of going wake to wake out of the whole thing and just concentrated on the trick itself. after doing about 3 times, i landed it wake to wake the first time i tried it. I don't know if your fear is like mine (going w2w with it) or if its just the rotation, but give it a try. at least it wouldn't hurt so bad if you do wipe out since you'll be in flat water with no obstacles to come down on (ie. the other wake). I will say learning a tantrum is easier IMO just because the wipe outs aren't so bad (at least for me). I would either come up short and kind of skip on my toe edge and land on my chest, or over rotate and land on my heel edge too much and just fall backwards. with the roll, if you short it, your diggin your board in the water and planting. over rotating isn't that bad though. Anyway, sorry for the ramble, summed up by go try it on the roller of another boat, it helped me haha.

KGar11 03-09-2010 12:10 PM

keep your eyes open. thats the hardest part of learning inverts

sippi 03-09-2010 1:12 PM

By the way, the tramp is good for a lot of inverts, but i don't think it helps with a backroll. a backroll is just getting the edge right and holding on. If your on a tramp learning a backroll, you have to almost throw your feet out from under you as soon as you jump to get the right rotation. Tantrums are good to start on a tramp though.

behindtheboat 03-09-2010 1:34 PM

I would disagree to some extent. Simulating the backroll on the tramp (with a handle and rope tied up) is rotating a cart wheel type flip, and helps learn how to rotate on/around the handle as your axis. No, you don't get the kick and the up and away motion in the flip, but you learn how to initiate that type of rotation and get comfortable with the handle position. Tantrum i see people flail on the tramp with all the time, because you have to square up to the wake on a tantrum, and should do it on the tramp too. Lot's of times people throw the tantrum out the back on the trampoline and come around fine, but then have trouble taking it to the water because they can't pull themselves around from going out the back with the boat pulling on them too.

Throwing it from inside to outside the wake, especially on a boat start up is another safer way to stick it similar to a roller

sippi 03-09-2010 2:50 PM

A-dub, I agree with you. the tramp would help with the backroll, but only if you initiate your roll like you would on the water. having someone there that knows how to do one would help. alot of people don't understand it so they are practicing something else (most of the time a straight cartwheel, which would simulate a frontroll or straight backflip). for the backroll on a tramp just bounce a few times then when you're ready just throw your feet out to the right (or left depending on your stance), put your chin on your shoulder and basically make your feet and legs do a flip around your head (if that makes sense).

the inside out is a great way to learn like the roller. might actually be better, because you can just tell your driver to go slow and do them over and over. and if you fall if won't hurt half as bad considering you aren't going very fast. But doing the rollers or the inside out is just to get you used to the rotation, when you take it to the wake you just got to get over he mental block of being scared, Cowboy Up and do the damn thing!

lume1 03-09-2010 3:09 PM

Great advice guys! I canīt wait to try this.
I`ll keep you posted
Thanks you all for the input

sippi 03-09-2010 3:23 PM

Get somebody with a video camera to film you and post it up here! I love seeing people land a trick for the first time. Even if you don't land it, WW can probably help with tips if we have a video of what you got so far. Grip it and rip it man!

jtnz 03-09-2010 4:07 PM

You're doing better than me I've only thrown a few last one was kind of like a real weird OA 3. Almost landed that somehow but I've got some work to do. Good tips.

ryanw209 03-12-2010 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by lume1 (Post 1560051)
Yeahh i know, i will try next weekend...and i recently tried the toeside backroll, and it felt easier. Is this possible? should i keep only trying heelside or both even though i canīt land either of them?

A TS backroll is a totally different rotation than a HS backroll. A TS backroll is basically a straight backflip while traveling forward and a HS backroll is a side flip.

Study this video over and over and I bet you land it in the next 2 times out:


boardtodeath 03-12-2010 1:48 PM

If you are falling out the back, you are probably pulling the handle in up high. Try not to pull the handle in to your body, keep a slight bend in your elbows and just put some downward (towards your lead hip) pressure on the handle. Maybe even try letting go with your back hand just before you land.

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