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-   -   Weighted boats and technique (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=776598)

jason95gt 02-24-2010 8:43 AM

I am wondering how others feel about weighted boats and riders losing technique/getting lazy? I personally have never ridden behind a over stock weighted boat, but I have noticed that from one smaller wake to a larger Supra wake that I forget about technique more and my riding suffers. So when I see someone needing 4000+ lbs of ballast is it because you want to and have the technique down or do you need it in order to do the tricks? As we have all seen the Byerly film of him killing it behind a barefoot 200 is the weight truly necessary?

baitkiller 02-24-2010 8:51 AM

Good question. <BR> <BR>I'll hang up and listen.

xbones 02-24-2010 8:54 AM

Yes Byerly killed it back in the day... and although its amazing the bag of tricks he had back then on basically no wake... I wouldn't trade a single one of those tricks for the huge, steezed out versions being stomped today because of the increase in wake size. Monster wake allows for an added element of style that could never be accomplished back in the day. <BR> <BR>Now go pile 4K in that b*tch and shred ;) Hahaha

stephan 02-24-2010 9:06 AM

I think the Byerly video has misled a lot of people. Yes it can be done behind a non-existent wake, but you have to be technically perfect. For Byerly in the heyday, that was no problem. For the average joe then and now, it is hard to to be when you ride 2-4 days a week. While a stacked wake can be viewed as a crutch, it sure is an awesome crutch. <BR> <BR>I do think that every now and again it is a good thing to get behind a small wake and work on your edging and basics, definitely keeps you fresh. Who knows what the next contest wake will be like, might as well be prepared for anything.

eubanks01 02-24-2010 9:15 AM

I think riding big wakes definitely can charge your technique a bit. Well, I think in some cases it has to. If you're loading up behind a wakeboard boat with 4K of ballast the same way you did behind a bass boat, then you're going to get way more booted that you're used to. Sometimes you have to back off a bit to accomodate the larger wake size. <BR> <BR>So over time only riding large wakes can definitely make you lazy and lose a bit of your technique. But as mentioned, it is so much more fun! <BR> <BR>I feel like I can do most of the same things behind a smaller wake, but I just have to try a lot harder. And who likes trying harder?! <BR> <BR>(Message edited by eubanks01 on February 24, 2010)

tom_paz 02-24-2010 9:30 AM

here's one element that a big wake does make a difference: spinning. if you'll notice in the old school vids with no weight in the boat, w2w spins seem to plateau around 540. it wasnt until wakes started getting larger when w2w 7s and 9s became consistant tricks. Not impossible to do back then, but as far as many riders doing them on a consistant basis and with increased style due to more hangtime came hand in hand with heavier boats. <BR> <BR>i think that we can all agree that bigger spins(especially off axis spins) really took off when ballast became a staple in everyone's boats. <BR> <BR>you can still have fun with any size wake, so get out there and use your edge to get the most of it!

tom_paz 02-24-2010 9:30 AM

here's one element that a big wake does make a difference: spinning. if you'll notice in the old school vids with no weight in the boat, w2w spins seem to plateau around 540. it wasnt until wakes started getting larger when w2w 7s and 9s became consistant tricks. Not impossible to do back then, but as far as many riders doing them on a consistant basis and with increased style due to more hangtime came hand in hand with heavier boats. <BR> <BR>i think that we can all agree that bigger spins(especially off axis spins) really took off when ballast became a staple in everyone's boats. <BR> <BR>you can still have fun with any size wake, so get out there and use your edge to get the most of it!

02-24-2010 9:54 AM

Yeah I'm with Eubanks. I think overall a bigger wake is just more enjoyable. Whenever I go from a big wake to a smaller wake I can throw the same tricks... it just takes a lot more effort and they seem to lose style points. <BR> <BR>whenever I go from a smaller wake to a bigger wake I have to adjust some because of the initial boot, but man it's such a better feeling. <BR> <BR>I have noticed that my consistency goes down a bit on the bigger wakes. My best runs all seem to come behind the smaller wakes. Less room for error I guess.

sidekicknicholas 02-24-2010 10:16 AM

I think learning (basics) the weight only hurts.... once you have set basics then go nuts... I remember trying to learn some tricks on a boat with not tower/pole or weight and it was tough... now learning much harder tricks on a sacked out 210 w/ a tower is much easier.... <BR> <BR>Some wakes I think are bad for people too, if you're not use to a 210/Epic you'll be getting owned, a lot.... but if you are comfotable with 210's and hop on a loaded X-star your timing is going to be so off for the first few hits you're getting owned. <BR> <BR>I think the biggest factor is getting use to something and sticking with it <BR> <BR>(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on February 24, 2010)

lfxstar 02-24-2010 10:17 AM

Agreed with big wakes being more fun. Once you get used to riding behind a heavily weighted boat, it just isn't the same when you get behind a boat with less weight. Nothing feels better than the pop off of a huge wake. It really shows you the feeling of different boards and rockers too distinguishing between a board with really big pop compared to a board that is made to go more into the flats. If you ride a big wake and do not have the right technique, you are going to have A LOT of trouble staying in control.

migs 02-24-2010 10:22 AM

always nicer hittin a big jump vs a smaller one.

guido 02-24-2010 10:54 AM

Yup, totally agree with these guys, however, I'll add one more thing. If you can't go wake to wake on both sides, then stop adding weight to your boats. You all know who you are.... LOL! <BR> <BR>Seriously, though. Once you have the basics down you can add a lot more style with a bit more hang time. I also agree about spins. They're so much more fun when you can take them big and floaty. Yeah, I can do all my tricks on a stock wake (tried it last year with a stock X2), but everything is rushed and a lot of grabs get flushed.

wakebrdmom 02-24-2010 1:28 PM

I know with our 210 if we do not weight it properly the boat will porpoise and the wake is super soft.

liquidmx 02-24-2010 1:33 PM

I would almost say that longer line lengths cause just as many problems as larg(er) wakes(which seem to go hand in hand). I see a lot of progressive edges lost because of too long of an approach (including my own, which I am re-tooling). The body position also suffers as well. After watching a few really really good riders ride w2w behind at boat it was really interesting to realize that they dont really need all the rope for their approach. Its a very mellow approach with a lot of stank put on the end of the cut...making it really progressive and lots of straight up pop. Watching guys get so much hang time they don't actually commit to a HS BS 180 until they are on the way down is a pretty interesting concept. <BR> <BR>I am also with Evan on requiring a certain skill set to ride a big wake...otherwise its just counterproductive and inefficient.

spearing 02-24-2010 1:54 PM

I guess i watch what the pros need to complete 720's and 900's and i want those tricks Sooo i need that wake plus, because i suck. I am not doing the next 1260 by using less than the pros.

rmcronin 02-25-2010 4:50 AM

I use no ballast when teaching, and won't allow someone to ride with ballast until they can go wake to wake toeside. They just don't have the edging, handle, and board control to ride safely. After that, game on.

lfxstar 02-25-2010 5:53 AM

Riding on a stock wake isn't even fun after you have been riding on a big wake. When it is stock you do 90% of your tricks but they just don't look as good nor do they feel as good. Everything feels rushed to me. If we take a stock set, I just do a good around set with just a bunch of different 180 variations and have fun with double ups.

sidekicknicholas 02-25-2010 7:35 AM

^ +1 <BR>If I'm out with others who's wake isn't very good I usually just work on switch riding or have a 180 day

benjaminp 02-25-2010 9:33 AM

I normally ride behind a 17 ft I/O, and only occasionally get to ride behind a VLX. I can barely clear w2w behind the I/O, and dont even try behind the VLX. The big wake for me requires more technique to ride behind without dieing. That being said, little wakes just arent the same after riding behind the big boy. I like to learn my tricks behind my I/O and the take them to the VLX, makes progression so much easier because I have no fear of my own little wake.

dgs 02-25-2010 12:43 PM

If Find if I'm riding a dumped boat all the time I get a little lazy. A few times over the last couple of weeks I have just ridden stock ballast and its been fun as hell! And has actually helped my riding for sure. Going back to basics once in a while never hurt anyone. I mean half the people I see with their boat slumped cant even use the big wake so whats the point.... waste of gas If you ask me

jason95gt 02-25-2010 1:20 PM

David, that is what I was thinking the whole time.

waterdork88 02-25-2010 4:11 PM

Can't stand watching amateurs riding with slammed boats just because I know they're hurting themselves more than helping. I think we can all agree that watching someone with good technique behind any kind of wake will get us stoked... watching someone with good technique AND a slammed boat will make us really really stoked

dirwoody 02-25-2010 4:53 PM

Some of the biggest tricks I've thrown have been behind boats w/stock ballast, or a touch over. When we load up 4K (no lie) I can't charge it nearly as much as I'd like because I'll bury my board right into the side of the wake!

daveronix199 02-25-2010 7:53 PM

HIT A MASSIVE WAKE!!! and this thread can come down

liquidmx 02-25-2010 9:27 PM

Stock wakes are like fat chicks...if you got no game you take what you can get. By why settle for a tubby when you got game?


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