WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   this battery charging question (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775716)

brucemac 02-19-2010 1:15 PM

first off an apology Brian (factorykitted) for hi-jacking his thread. i know better and i'm sorry. <BR> <BR>just when i think i have a handle on this stuff, i read something and it raises questions or i second guess myself. <BR> <BR>specifically what i'm trying to understand is what difference does it make if you recharge your stereo bank with 1.25A or 10A+ as long as they are being fully recharged before their next use? <BR> <BR>i understand the importance of a charger that is "smart" or has different stages of it's routine, but why is it important that the bulk charge be at a high amperage versus on the lower side?

kikitlo 02-19-2010 1:31 PM

Pro's please chime in if I'm wrong, <BR> <BR>My understanding is if you are the type of person who does a lot of boating on back to back days, overnight you may not be able to charge your batteries fast enough by the next morning. A slow steady charge of 1.25A will get you there, it will just take longer. Hence the 10A. It will get the batteries charged faster then hold them there with a lower amperage. <BR> <BR>Hope I got that correct and I'm not just blowin smoke.

david_e_m 02-19-2010 2:12 PM

Bruce, <BR> <BR>The really top notch charger manufacturers put it something like this. <BR> <BR>A deep cycle battery needs a charger with enough current capacity to chemically excite it to properly desulfate and condition. Where as a maintenance-only charger cannot effectively do this. So when just using a tender (1.25A) your batteries will suffer a slow but certain decline like a person with clogged arteries from a sedentary lifestyle. <BR> <BR>Using a tender on a starting battery on an ATV, UTV, motorcycle or rarely used third car is fine because these batteries are never put into storage in a depleted state and are not intended to deep cycle. <BR> <BR>Also, the deep cycle battery manufacturers typically recommend a charger with a total current capacity of 10 to 15 percent of the total battery(s) amp/hour rating. <BR> <BR>David <BR>Earmark Marine

tuneman 02-19-2010 2:12 PM

Ok, battery basics: <BR>A battery has two main parts: the liquid(sulfer and water) and the solid(lead plates). As a battery discharges, the sulfer in the liquid comes out of solution and sticks to the lead plates. This is called sulfation. <BR> <BR>The longer you leave a battery in sulfation, the more time it has for the sulfer to stay stuck to the plates. So, you want to charge fast to reduce sulfation. But, you don't want to overcharge or you'll boil the sulfer out of the liquid. <BR> <BR>If you don't fully charge a battery before you use it next, there will be sulfates left on the plates and they'll stay stuck there permenantly. Once the plates get enough permenantly stuck sulfer deposits, it won't be able to charge any more. <BR> <BR>Make sense?

ttuclint 02-19-2010 2:15 PM

Why is everyone all the sudden going crazy over batteries and charging systems ? I have never seen this much chatter over this before.

polarbill 02-19-2010 2:21 PM

Clint, because it is the winter and it is project time. It really is amazing how many people neglect the charging system in their boat. Not having it setup correctly will cause a lot of unneeded pain, frustration and money. If you invest a little time and money initially it will save you a lot of money in the long run.

brucemac 02-19-2010 3:03 PM

hey thanks for the replies that all makes total sense to me. <BR> <BR>it raises another question in my application though. <BR> <BR>if i were to pickup a new higher amp smart charger, one that was a two-bank and somewhere between 5-10A per bank let's say, would i need to worry about not having a manual switch inline between the 1314 and my two banks? <BR> <BR>i guess my question is, at what point is the 1314 doing you a dis-service with a multi-bank charger? 11.X volts on the primary battery with the stereo bank drained and a low Amp output charger? <BR> <BR>it almost gets to the point of heck, screw it and removing the stereo bank off the boat's alternator/charging system altogether and just recharging it off the water with AC. i mean, heck, for the price of an alternator and fancy pants charging system, you could add a couple more batteries and a sweet charger and be done with it.

gonyeasmarinecom 02-19-2010 3:33 PM

Hey guys Tuneman has a good grip on this one but <BR>from the tech corner, start batteries are used for high amp low amp hour cycles. deep cycle for longer residual power (stereos at high db levels) <BR>called house batts and the rate of charge are different for each batt and type agm,jelcell ect. <BR>large banks of house batteries need to be topped off fully "state of charge". batts also are rated <BR>on how many times they cycle ie full charge to dead before replacement. A "smart" charger sees the type and amp recomendation protocol before it <BR>goes into "float" topped off ok. <BR>Alternators are just to keep the battery "maintained to draw levels put upon it" <BR>And say a 100amp alt thats not R.M.S thats max output ie dead alt. batts/alt/isolator/residual charger and dont forget the weakest link in an electrical chain is the wiring and termination. <BR>ta ta

acurtis_ttu 02-22-2010 7:59 AM

I've used this method for years now. from Mikeski. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/Boat_Battery_Diagram-262940.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/Boat_Battery_Diagram-262940.pdf</a> <BR> <BR> <BR>I dont' use the c100 but something similar ( VSR on one boat, and the surepower on my other boat). There are a few very minor potential flaws, but my batteries lasted close to 5 years using this method on sytems ranging from 2k-3k RMS. <BR> <BR>I'm down south and live on a lake, I'm out close to year round every weekend. <BR> <BR>On holiday weekends I woudl use a larger charger to rbing the batteries up daily.

wakecumberland 02-22-2010 9:02 AM

Adam, that diagram confuses the hell out of me! I have been reading all the recent threads on batteries and I'm now more confused than ever. I had a battery tender on the Deep Cycle battery I bought late last year after my orginal starter failed just to get me thorugh the season, but over the weekend I took the tender off b/c of some of the remarks made about those!

scott76310 02-22-2010 9:05 AM

Don't really understand the Mikeski method but it isn't a dual bank charger. Is the switch used to charge one battery and then the other or both at the same time. If it is both then I don't really see why the switch would be needed. <BR> <BR>Bruce Mac, I think I want to do the same thing as you. Use a Surepower 1314 (voltage sensing, combining relay) and keep the batteries isolated for charging with a dual bank charger. I am trying to figure out a way to disable the 1314 while charging. David E M recommended using a switch but I would like to keep it totally automatic with no switches. I still think using an AC relay tied into the ground wire of the 1314 would be perfect. When the relay receives AC voltage from plugging the charger in, it disconnects the ground to the 1314 which would disable it. David E M said this wouldn't work but was referring to a DC relay and I am speaking specifically of an AC relay. I would really prefer this because I can plug my boat in without even removing the cover or getting in the boat so I don't want to ad a switch not to mention why would buying and adding a switch be better than buying a relay. Plus the relay could be mounted anywhere but the switch would have to be mounted in a place easily accessible which might complicate the installation. <BR> Now I just need to find one of these relays and I wonder if it will be safe to mount inside the engine compartment.

hunter660 02-22-2010 2:38 PM

Adam R, I'll do your electrical if you come align my engine.

acurtis_ttu 02-22-2010 2:52 PM

Dual bank charging is ideal...no doubt about that, but in 10 years of boat ownership and 4 boats, I have never used one. <BR> <BR>I'm averaging right at a 5 year life span on my batteries. that's longer than in my daily driver car, lol. <BR> <BR>Mikeski's syetem is very cost effective and gets the job done. <BR> <BR>Like most my boat is on the charger when it's not in use.

acurtis_ttu 02-22-2010 3:00 PM

I use a 6 amp battery maintainer on my wakebaord boat , and the 1.25 amp battery tender on my pontoon boat ( also has 6v golf carts) I'll tell you in 5 years if I have any issues with increased sulfation like David EM mentions in his second post. <BR> <BR>I'm one year in and the batteries still taking a full charge. <BR> <BR>I have a 1k inverter on my pontoon that rus fans, disco ball ( lol) blender, heater, stereo, TV ect...the batt's get abused.

bradcraig78 02-22-2010 3:24 PM

In Mikeski diagram what are the batteries negative terminal connecting to? Alternator?

acurtis_ttu 02-22-2010 3:27 PM

^^^No, grounds are common. it's back to the engine block.

brucemac 02-23-2010 3:07 PM

hey adam, got any recent pics of the party barge? you should post up. didn't you pick that up this time last year?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:16 PM.