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-   -   New Shaft seal (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772325)

nschimm 02-01-2010 7:33 AM

I have a 1985 American Skier in great shape and looking to do a few updates. Right now my shaft seal is pretty much shot. I will tighten it till it has a small drip but it needs replaced. Im running the bilge between every other pull. <BR> <BR>I need a new seal for sure but I was thinking about going with a dripless system. Just wondering what is recommended for this boat and any unforeseen I should be aware of before I tear into it and get in over my head.

baitkiller 02-01-2010 7:59 AM

Your biggest hurdle may the removing the shaft from the coupling. On that boat you may have some room to work. You can use long bolts with a spacer in the center of the couplings to turn the coupling into it's own puller. Heat also may be used. Some yards use a big arse slide hammer attached to the propeller end. Not my first choice. If you have the room a 1 ton axle puller works very well. Regardless, the coupling has to come off. <BR> <BR>Another issue that may arise the condition of the shaft. Traditional packing wears the shaft and if that spot lines up with the new seal surface you will need to lengthen or shorten the bellows to align the seal with a smooth surface. This may lead to other complications. <BR> <BR>The choice of shaft seals depends. <BR>I would list them in my order of preference based on reliability. <BR>#1) Lasdrop. The best. <BR> <BR>2) Tides Strong seal. Pretty good but make sure you install the spare seal kit or you'll be sorry. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>#3) PSS. Or as some call them (POS) Personally I would just replace the traditional shaft log before going this route. For some reason this brand is very popular with some leading OEMs. Can't for life of me understand why. Even when working correctly they spray a fine mist and in salt water that is $$ trouble. <BR> <BR>If you re-pack your traditional log correctly and your engine alignment is correct you should have very little problem. I would suggest you consider this option and spend the money and time elsewhere. Wait until you pop a motor or smash up the running gear to make major changes. <BR> <BR>I'll be interested to hear the opinion of the guys who are more ski boat only in experience. My experience is on craft of all sizes and duties in sea water. <BR> <BR>Good luck.

h20king 02-01-2010 8:24 AM

use the pss for sure this is an easy job you need a 1"high speed pss.pull the prop remove coupling from tranny. there should be a nut inside coupling,remove then re install coupling to tranny with two bolts.Here is the tricky part you need a slide hammer that will thread on to the end of the shaft.A couple slams with the slide hammer and the shaft is free.remove old thru hull and replace with pss.follow simple instructions included and re assemble.you will not have any problem with your shaft as said above I have done this job many times and it is very easy best $185 you will spend.look on line for ellberts they sell evreything needed including pullers for the shaft and water berings

srock 02-01-2010 8:42 AM

Maybe the PSS has better pricing. I'm interested as well in the comments because I have two seals to replace.

h20king 02-01-2010 9:19 AM

It's not a matter of price pss is the best system out all others are copies.the job should only take an hour on an inboard twice as long on a v drive but they never leak.If you have two seals to do I recomend buying the puller from ellberts and changeing the water bearings while you are there as the puller has an adapter to pull them.If you have problems I can e=mail you my number and talk you through it

h20king 02-01-2010 9:33 AM

you have to google elberts marine to find them. sorry about the price i posted that is dealer price

02-01-2010 10:55 AM

The Dripless system we (OJ PROPS) designed and offer for sale is the XPC Dripless Shaft Seal. The system is used by Master Craft, Supra, Moomba and Malibu. The system is much simpler than another system out there requiring no adjusting. Our system is not a copy of the PSS, it is a stand alone design that works.

h20king 02-01-2010 11:12 AM

the pss requires no adjusting when you install you set the one inch preload and your done.It has a graphite seal surface that seals against a double o ring stainless collar and have come on nautique's for quite a while.I have the marine hardware in my boat similar to the oj and will be replacing with the pss also

02-01-2010 11:29 AM

Our system requires NO adjusting on the install. Install it to clean shaft surface and it is done, no preloading or adjusting. We use a proprietary double lip seal that is very like the seal used by Marine Hardware. Our housing is either made of Vesconite or Aluminum with a Vesconite sleeve.

baitkiller 02-01-2010 11:55 AM

PSS seal on a 43 Cabo last month during sea trials. <BR>I have found that placement of the water injection hose is critical. In this case at WOT the pump pressure exceeded the spring pressure of the bellows. At loads under 90% the unit acted normally, only issuing a fine mist indicated by a line across the bilge and corroded motor mounts, generator etc. <BR> <BR>The typical operator would have no clue unless he was in the machinery space at high cruise. <BR> <BR>Perhaps the high speed units Mr. Hemming is using have better performance than what I am used to seeing. It certainly appears he has installed many with no issue. <BR> <BR>Good luck with whatever road you choose. As with most things, a good installation will always improve your eventual satisfaction. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/772393.jpg" alt="Upload">

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 12:33 PM

A clean engine compartment is very nice... a seal system that does not require anything more than installing the shaft and coupler through the seal, connect the water supply and you are on your way.... 5 minutes to service/install new seal(in the water), no flooded bilge and no need for haul out... XPC Seal systems

boarditup 02-01-2010 12:38 PM

OJ's seal is one of the best I've worked with. Recommneded.

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 12:38 PM

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/772416.jpg" alt="Upload"> Serviced in 5 minutes and the spare seal rides inside the body!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/772417.jpg" alt="Upload">

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 12:39 PM

Serviced in 5 minutes and the spare seal rides inside the body!

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 12:47 PM

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/772426.jpg" alt="Upload"> This is the smaller unit that is designed for Trailer boats. Just install <BR> the shaft and coupler, add water supply and go!

baitkiller 02-01-2010 12:54 PM

Double clamps are required. Loose the brass hose barb for SW use. <BR> <BR>Nice unit.

srock 02-01-2010 12:57 PM

I wish I did not have to pull my boat to fix my leaking seal. My existing system has a bottle filled with transmission fluid as a lubricant for each shaft. Not quite sure how it all works but the housing has a cut which will drip oil into the bildge. I'm also worried about the condition of the shaft in respect to the type of replacement system.

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 1:12 PM

For sure there are many systems available. Yes, we use SS barbs for SW use. Double clamps are needed on larger boats. The point is.... whatever the seal you buy the name is only part of it... check the requirements for the seal first. You might not like the maintenance required especially on v-drive boats! <BR> <BR>(Message edited by xpc_sealman on February 01, 2010)

h20king 02-01-2010 2:27 PM

just for the record i dont sell anything or work for any of the companies mentioned.The marine hardware systems has been none to fail im sure oj makes a good system.i have used the pss for years with no problems install time on the oj or the pss is about the same. Tim you keep saying no maintenance the pss requires no maintenance. also.allthough the marine hardware requires you grease the seal's yearly.

olskooltige 02-01-2010 2:40 PM

So what's the advantage of those style vs. one of these. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=45&amp;catid=305&amp;p roductid=2128&amp;CFID=577328&amp;CFTOKEN=319a991-36908fda-e726-425e-b144-ce4e171e9d1d" target="_blank">http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=45&amp;catid=305&amp;p roductid=2128&amp;CFID=577328&amp;CFTOKEN=319a991-36908fda-e726-425e-b144-ce4e171e9d1d</a>

olskooltige 02-01-2010 2:46 PM

Or one like this (commonly used in drag boats) <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/772443.jpg" alt="Upload">

02-01-2010 2:57 PM

The seal in our XPC system is not neoprene or nitril rubber, they are a carbon graphite based seal. Nor does our system use a "fiber strut bushing insert" or delryn, used in some of the drag boat seals and bearings. The fiber inserts or bearing materials are laminated, which can swell and delaminate. Delryn will also swell and does not have the self lubricating properties close to the Vesconite Hi Lube bearings we use in the aluminum housings. Have used our systems, seal and strut bearings, in several inboard circle race boats.

baitkiller 02-01-2010 3:03 PM

The link is like Tims unit or a Strong Seal and uses HD lip seals. Should work just fine but needs maintenance. <BR> <BR>The pic shows a sealed ball bearing unit. Whats the over /under on a full season before that thing grenades? Even in sweet water? I give it < one month in my neighborhood. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>They tear drag boats down between events and they dont run for extended periods. They probably buy these things by the gross. It's designed to support huge lateral loads and crazy shaft speeds for a short duration. Bet it does that just fine. <BR> <BR>Remember the golden rule of boats: <BR> <BR>Water will find a way.

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 3:42 PM

The SEAL I am talking about needs no water. The water is only for mis-alignment/load on the bearing. We tested our system dry (no water plumbed) for 1500 hrs at the average rpm of 2800. No issues. Try to run any of the other systems without water in a boat for that long... <BR> They all produce decent seal systems, it is all in what you are looking for and what you want to pay.

xpc_sealman 02-01-2010 3:49 PM

We have Hydro race teams running our seals for several seasons now. They usually refresh the seal once a year in the off season. <BR> Unlike the Strong seal (series one) you can replace our seal as needed. We use a double lip teflon seal unlike everyone else.

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