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-   -   NoPowerTurns.com - Help Me Build The Content (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=747966)

wakeworld 11-18-2009 11:18 AM

Ok, I just ordered the stickers for this, but I just haven't had the time to work on content for the NoPowerTurns.com website. Obviously, I can't sell the stickers until we have something up on the website. PLEASE help! <BR> <BR>What do you think should be on it? I'm thinking a simple, non-accusatory intro that politely explains what a powerturn is and how it affects the water when it is used. It will probably open with a mock dictionary definition of "powerturn," so I'll need help with that. <BR> <BR>I also want to do a FAQ with questions like, "Is it always bad to powerturn?" or "What are the alternatives to powerturning." Please list other questions you think should be included. <BR> <BR>I think it's best if we keep it simple (one-page), non-judgmental and fun, but it needs to get the message across. <BR> <BR>Any help would be appreciated!!

sidekicknicholas 11-18-2009 11:21 AM

just me, but i think it should be judgemental and mean.... <BR> <BR>make a series of videos of the most "warrior" type people power turning and then "Core" riders murdering them, that would get the point across.

kylenautique 11-18-2009 11:22 AM

We need to throw in something about how power turning sends huge rollers to your rider sitting in the water. Don't drown your rider!...Man I can't wait for this! I have some D-bags that are all about power turning in the cove I ride in. This will be perfect to resolve that issue!

pierce_bronkite 11-18-2009 11:23 AM

I would post up the hate e-mail that you will get with it. That would make for some entertainment.

kylenautique 11-18-2009 11:27 AM

you should also throw something in there about boat etiquette too...some people are clueless and will have a rider in the water as I'm coming up on them towing my rider. They will pull their rider up out of the water as I'm right behind them ruining my water forcing me to turn around...all they had to do was wait a few more seconds for me to pass and then everyone would be happy!

pacifichigh 11-18-2009 11:28 AM

video examples <BR> <BR>A. power turn- what not to do <BR> <BR>B. Proper way of turning around to pick up rider

kylenautique 11-18-2009 11:28 AM

Maybe make a blog where you can post your frustration about power turners, so the offenders can read how much it pisses people off. This is a very very serious issue! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0>

wakeworld 11-18-2009 11:31 AM

I'm sure these article will be linked from the page... <BR> <BR>- <a href="http://wakeworld.com/articles/2003/thatboat.asp" target="_blank"> Don't Be That Boat</a> <BR>- <a href="http://wakeworld.com/articles/2002/thatguy.asp" target="_blank"> Don't Be That Guy</a>

garveyj 11-18-2009 11:31 AM

A couple of videos of the water with the powerturn and without that you could post and embed on the page would work well. I am a visual person so that would make it easy to understand. <BR> <BR>Maybe even diagrams or a step by step, like this: <BR> <BR>1.) when your rider falls pull the throttle back to neutral until boat is stopped. <BR>2.) slowly turn the boat towards your rider and put the boat into a slow idle <BR>3.) slowly idle back to the rider, and get ready to pull the rider up. <BR>4.) repeat

hawaiianstiln 11-18-2009 11:42 AM

don't forget that power turning doesn't just ruin the water for others. It decreases fuel consumptions (boats get horrible MPG as it is) and also brings safety issues into play. Usually when I see people power turning on the lake, the rider falls, the driver throttles up 100% to turn around and everyone in the boat thinks it's soo much fun, but they are hanging on for dear life and now the passengers are vulnerable to being thrown out if one isn't paying attention or hanging on and the rider in the water could get ran over if the driver wasn't paying attention. <BR> <BR>drives me nuts. Only time I powerturn is if some idiot boat is behind me while I'm pulling a rider and they fall. That would be the only option as to make sure my crew is safe.

ottog1979 11-18-2009 11:49 AM

Include links to "Other driving hints for towing" pages or to a pdf of Rody Rod's "The Art of Driving a Mastercraft". <BR> <BR>Second Kyle's suggestion about Boat Etiquette (help pay for gas, help clean up after, ask to help with ballast bags, etc.) <BR> <BR>These are just suggestions while I know you are looking for written content. I printed Roddy Rod's presentation to keep on my boat. Maybe with his permission you could alter it to not be MC specific and include the content.

wakeboardsam 11-18-2009 12:02 PM

David, <BR>I think you should use the site as a place to sell "The Book". I think it best describes proper wakeboarding boat driving Etiquette. Maybe you could get a cut of the proceeds...

roomservice 11-18-2009 12:27 PM

make sure that the drivers in the "how not to" videos are total dweebs and the "how to" guys are depicted as cool and surrounded by bun.

flux 11-18-2009 12:30 PM

Some diagrams explaining the simple fact that powerturning across your riding path is akin to peeing in your bed before sleeping in it. You have to make it understandable to the masses that a powerturn messes up the water ahead of them by throwing rollers in all directions instead of keeping the wakes parallel and moving away from your riding path. <BR> <BR>Then explain that it also messes up the water for everyone else, which is obviously much less a factor for many folks because they only care about themselves. <BR> <BR>From a safety standpoint, powerturning is fine when you have a downed rider who is hurt or in a critical situation with suspect boats bearing down on them. Otherwise a wakeless turn suffices and actually keeps you better in line with the downed rider. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Flux on November 18, 2009)

jeff_mn 11-18-2009 12:31 PM

Wow.. <BR> <BR>Some elitest attitudes in here.. <BR> <BR> <BR>Yeah - I'm sure 45 year old "Dads" pulling kids behind tubes are going to listen to 20 something year old wakeboarders being ********s on the internet. <BR> <BR>If you make the website professional and approach it like an ADULT instead of like some spoiled <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> kid who feels "entitled" to calm water because we wakeboard instead of tube - people might actually listen. <BR> <BR>Do yourself a favor and don't create the site with a bunch whiney, self serving vidoes and blogs.

flux 11-18-2009 12:42 PM

Well Jeff, I would ask you to come on down to Southern California and try to get a decent set in around these parts before the PT's show up and trash the place. Elitist?? Not so much. More like fed up. <BR> <BR>I rode three times this year and quit going to certain lakes mid summer because it's an out and out waste of time. I could no longer handle going to lakes where people have no clue of boating laws and no sense of safety let alone etiquette. <BR> <BR>I can finally say that I am getting away from the Socal mess and am quite happy about it. I might actually look forward to riding instead of hoping for one decent set and being scared to put my kids on the rope. The boat will be sitting on a pretty lake and my biggest concern will be not pissing off the fishermen, but that's easy to do, just stay away from them (etiquette). <BR> <BR>Anything that helps is a blessing as far as I am concerned. <BR> <BR>PS-> I am a 40 year old dad. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Flux on November 18, 2009)

hawaiianstiln 11-18-2009 12:47 PM

agree with Flux ^^ completely. AZ is completely jacked and my wife doesn't even want to go out on the boat anymore because how crazy the drivers are on the lakes out here. <BR> <BR>I'm a 35 year old dad <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> and I don't even bother trying to teach my kids because of the same thing that Flux is talking about. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by hawaiianstiln on November 18, 2009)

jyoungusa 11-18-2009 1:24 PM

I am one of those 40+ dads who did not know better until I started reading WW and the like - keep it professional and educational and you will get your point across. Get nasty/condensending and the like your target audience will not go to the page and in fact it might have the opposite effect.

wakereviews 11-18-2009 1:27 PM

I think the point Jeff is trying to make is to make the site not an US vs Them type of scenario and make it something that once someone reads it, they will think "oh, that makes sense and is the smart way to pull a rider". <BR> <BR>Putting up videos and blogs where everyone can complain and put down people who power turn I do not see serving the end goal.

wakeworld 11-18-2009 1:37 PM

Agreed. It will be professional and won't even be geared toward a particular sport (other than some of the article links). That way people from any water sport can direct people to the site.

kylenautique 11-18-2009 1:59 PM

Maybe have a part on the site that says where and when its ok to tube and wakesurf, and when and where its not ok to tube and wakesurf. Wakesurfing and tubing in a protected smooth area where people are trying to ride probably annoys me more then power turning. Nothing worse when you are getting your board on ready to ride, and you look over and see a boat getting loaded down on one side ready to throw a huge surf wake...

wakereviews 11-18-2009 2:01 PM

^^^ disagree <BR> <BR>The site is about stopping powerturning, that's it.

wakeworld 11-18-2009 2:04 PM

Sorry Kyle, but that's not what this is about. Everyone has equal rights to the water.

flux 11-18-2009 2:12 PM

Don't get me wrong, I keep my condescending attitude to myself outwardly and really like the idea of an educational site. <BR> <BR>But yeah, coming off elitist and condescending will probably have exactly the opposite effect. I never really see it as us vs them, more like "can't we all get along". <BR> <BR>Back to the point, explaining to them how wakes behave and the importance of not throwing rollers into your path is pretty fundamental.

kylenautique 11-18-2009 2:20 PM

Thats cool. I guess because I ride on a river where there are tons of places to ride, but good water conditions are only in some select coves and island places, we all get frustrated when people do that because you don't need glassy water to tube or surf. When you share a small lake, it would be a little different. Everyone has equal rights to the water, but you can't share a small cove with someone who is wakesurfing. I don't think some people quite understand the amount of rollers they throw out when they surf. Thats what I was trying to get across. If this is just going to be about power turning, then cool. I was just throwing out a complaint I hear from other riders and myself.

flux 11-18-2009 2:20 PM

I think the site could serve a couple purposes, not only to stop the Pturns, but talk about etiquette in general and how we can all share the water and preserve those calm days for the good of everyone. <BR> <BR>Maybe some stuff about boating laws and how to communicate with other boats on the water (waving to another boat when you see their rider down). it's really amazing how the smallest things can make you feel safe or unsafe on the water.

kylenautique 11-18-2009 2:35 PM

Throw out suggestions about how to share the water. I've been at small lakes where we got up super early to ride the butter on the morning run, and a slalom ski boat is out there too taking advantage of the perfect water. I have no problem driving up to the boat and asking them if they want to take turns so everyone gets a perfect set. It makes everyone happy. This site could be so amazing for the beginner boater that is clueless to boating etiquette. If they are power turning, they probably have no idea what they are doing, and power turning is just the tip of the iceburg. Respecting others and gaining respect out on the water comes from actions you do behind the helm, and if you are clueless to some important etiquette rules, people are going to get frustrated. Thats what I'm saying about the wakesurfing issue I deal with from time to time. I'm sure that person is unaware they are destroying the water for everyone else, like the guy who "slows down" when he drives by you but doesn't come off plane, instead they make a HUGE wake when they plow past you. I'm just saying a boat etiquette dos and don'ts would be super helpful for the novice boater.

aaudii5150 11-18-2009 3:22 PM

I love it!!! Where do I sing up to help? BTW I want to be the first with a sticker in my window and a book to hand out at the launch..... <BR> <BR>All joking aside, this is what can happen when you power turn.... I know someone that knew this girl.... <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/07/10/07-11-09-canyon-delays" target="_blank">http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/07/10/07-11-09-canyon-delays</a>

skydog96 11-18-2009 3:25 PM

i think videos are mandatory. Something like goofy shaun murray in the Detention videos. <BR> <BR>-show a boarder in the water trying to communicate with the driver and rollers swamping him over due to big waves from power turn. <BR> <BR>-also show the time difference between the two. people think its faster to power turn, when in reality its the same if not faster to do it slow. have a big clock side by side showing the two. <BR> <BR>-maybe for fun a gas consumption guage, watching the fule level drop and $/run jump sky high. <BR> <BR>i definitely agree that the site should not just be about power turning, but all boat/ launch ramp/ driving on the highway etiquette . <BR> <BR>show every other person on the lake shaking their heads in disappointment when a power turn happens.

rnopr8 11-18-2009 7:54 PM

Dave....why don't you ask Travis for his opinion?

bakes5 11-18-2009 8:33 PM

The only thing I think you have the high ground on is people power turning to pick up a downed rider. Other than that you are sharing a common waterway and power turning is part of boating. We slalom, wakeboard, wakeskate, hydrofoil and tube behind my boat. I hate to tell you this, but tubing on rough water isn't very fun. It beats the kids up and they come into the boat crying instead of happy to be on the water. They have just as much right to the good water as the boarding crew. That being said, I never let the kids on the tubes before 9 AM or so unless we are the only ones on the lake. That's my own rule though and I wouldn't expect others to follow it. Fortunately, the tubing crowd generally isn't dedicated enough to get up early. I try to stay away from other boaters but if there is only one small protected area of smooth water I'm not staying away from it just because someone else on a board wants me to. I try and share and be reasonable but I'm not about to give up the good stuff just cause someone thinks they have a right to it...when in fact they don't. No amount of educational products or videos are going to change my mind. Everyone has a right to good water any time of the day. <BR> <BR>Bottom line, if you want good water get up early. It's more a function of overcrowding and competition over scarce resources than people behaving badly. My Lake is flat out dangerous after about 1200 noon. We get up before sunrise 3-4 days a week during the summer to get the glass. Few things in life better than getting a set in as the sun rises. Anyone who expects glass after 10 or 11 in the morning is delusional.

aliwake 11-18-2009 9:17 PM

I'd love to see some tips about boat ramp etiquette also. I think it could be a great resource for new boaters who want some common sense guidelines about how to behave on their local lake/river.

bradsharee 11-18-2009 11:46 PM

I second the boat ramp etiquette. The truth is...people just don't know or understand and it could be a good resource. <BR> <BR>David, if you need some SEO, I'd be happy to help you guys out...gratis!

dirwoody 11-19-2009 7:18 AM

I've got another sad one from this year - 23yr old thrown from the boat then ran over during a powerturn... <BR><a href="http://www.journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/nebraska/article_c5f7c570-8286-11de-81a5-001cc4c002e0.html" target="_blank">http://www.journalstar.com/news/state-and-regional/nebraska/article_c5f7c570-8286-11de-81a5-001cc4c002e0.html</a> <BR><a href="http://www.omaha.com/article/20090805/NEWS01/708059916" target="_blank">http://www.omaha.com/article/20090805/NEWS01/708059916</a>

deltawake 11-19-2009 8:27 AM

How about making a series of videos sort of like the Mac ads that portray the Mac guy as being cool and the PC guy as sort of a nerd. Show that it's cool not to powerturn, and it's unrefined and uncool to powerturn. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by deltawake on November 19, 2009)

aaudii5150 11-19-2009 8:35 AM

I think the website should stick to power turns.... The boat ramp thing is another issue all together!

bmartin 11-19-2009 8:37 AM

I still think providing people with ammunition to board other people's boats uninvited and sneak around and place stickers on their boats is not a good idea and am kind of surprised Wakeworld is endorsing this and supplying these stickers....But regarding the website content, I have to agree keeping it professional and educational is the only effective way to go. <BR> <BR>I think building in links should be included on safe and courteous operation of other water sports activities to cover PWCs, ramp etiquite, tubing, and surfing. Yes you could focus on powerturns but think it would be a missed opportunity to offer other pointers. So it is not all one sided, might also throw in a link on courteous operation of stereos and water poaching / taking turns. The emphasis should be on how ALL boaters can maximize their enjoyment of the shared waterways and not just how the water can be made better for the wakeboarding elite.

11-19-2009 8:51 AM

It should be all about education. I would like to see the site take the a professional approach to dealing with this. Its something that definitely aggravates all of us, but some people are new to boating and just don't know any better. Therefore I think that the site should include educational videos on how to turn and pick up properly with respecting others on the lake as well. Maybe a Question and Answer page where we provide a number of frequently asked q and a's as wakeworlders so that the people who are new to the lifestyle we enjoy can get on board and hopefully minimize the amount of arguments on the lake and on here in discussions. I agree with the idea of being able to purchase The Book and Detention 2012 from the site, or a link to where they can be purchased. I think they do a great job. <BR> <BR>As for the stickers, I would be pretty upset if I found that someone had placed a sticker on my boat after I had detailed it or something. I am still not too sure how to feel about it. I would put one on my boat and maybe approach someone and ask if they had heard about the site, but I would never sneak around and put one on someone else's boat with out them knowing I was doing it.

kylenautique 11-19-2009 9:37 AM

It's not like a sticker with a glue on it that you have to bust out the heat gun to remove. Its a sticker like when you get your oil changed. Those plastic static ones that come right off and don't leave a mess.

11-19-2009 9:56 AM

Right, I forgot that. However the principle of putting it on someone's boat without their knowledge still doesn't portray a positive message in my opinion. But that's just me.

lugwrench 11-19-2009 10:08 AM

I think you're really going to have to stress the safety side of it, and the calm water part of it is a plus. Unless the common boater is educated on why power turning is unsafe, (time to retrieve rider, causing accidents with other boats, increasing chances of hitting own rider etc. etc. etc.) most parents are going to think "calmed water be damned, I'm doing what I think is right to keep my kids safe" when in fact they're putting them and others at greater risk. I think if you get that across, they would be more receptive to "and you also save gas and keep the water calm for everyone!" Karl De Loof had some really good information and stats about this from his experience with the coast guard. But this is a great idea Dave!

bmartin 11-19-2009 10:46 AM

Yes it would be a LOT worse if the stickers would have an adhesive, but don't think many people will take a shining to someone putting anything on their boats. Boats are more personal than daily driver cars for a lot of people.

dillls 11-19-2009 1:19 PM

Then put it on their tow vehicle or boat trailer.

wakerider111 11-19-2009 3:36 PM

How about a "PRINT YOUR OWN" page to print out buisness cards and or flyers that are not designed to "stick." <BR>AND/OR offer packs of business cards that people can buy instead of/or as well as the stickers. unless the stickers are the same price or even cheaper by chance to make. then they themselves can be used as business cards while still stuck to the backing <BR> <BR>-------------------------------------------------- <BR>alternate sticker ideas <BR> <BR>1. Assuming the sticker has a paper/cardboard backing, a person could put the whole thing on the seat, or dash, or under a wiper blade of a tow vehicle without "sticking it" <BR> <BR>2. Print out your own on paper or card-stock to use as fliers or business cards to use as suggested above in #1 <BR> <BR>3. Approach the "offender" in person and give them one (sticker, card, or flier) for those not wanting to "trespass."

wakeworld 11-19-2009 3:58 PM

Folks, let's not get too hung up on placing "stickers" on people's boats. That's really a last resort thing and certainly not anything you should be doing if you're not comfortable with it. The focus should really be on education of this particular issue. Yes, we can provide links to other etiquette and safety issues and the readers can follow those if they are so inclined. However, as I said above, we're talking simple and to the point. <BR> <BR>Also, I appreciate the suggestions of all the videos and everything, but my main point was that I don't have a ton of time to dedicate to this right now, so I'm looking for quick and dirty ideas. A video production is not quick and dirty...unless you want to do it! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

ottog1979 11-20-2009 9:18 AM

^^^^ I second, Dave. Too much needless debate about sticking stickers.

johnny_defacto 11-20-2009 8:30 PM

dave, <BR> <BR>since you do not have very much time to dedicate to this project, why not get some swag from your WW sponsors and have a contest. there are very talented wakeworlders with video, photo and website experience; so have a contest for the best webpage. <BR> <BR>Have the contestants design a single page layout for your website with the following (as you have requested); <BR> <BR>1. single page <BR>2. definition of "powerturn" <BR>3. FAQ's with answers <BR>4. correct rider-pickup instructional <BR>5. links to "dont be that guy/boat" or to stories of injuries due to powerturning. <BR>*6. pictures/drawings of how a powerturn destroys the water/line <BR>*7. video's of powerturns showing how they destroy the water, are dangerous, and reek havoc on your downed rider. <BR>*8. video of how to properly stop and retrieve your fallen rider. <BR> <BR>You could give the single winner a bunch of product or you can create your webpage by using parts of several entries and give product to those participants.

wake77 11-21-2009 1:54 PM

Many of the weekend, recreational boaters are not going to be convinced overwelmingly about screwing up the water. <BR> <BR>I think to really drive the point home is to focus the amount of gas that is consumed by powerturning to pick up a rider. Maybe compile some statistics on how much more it would cost you over a summer powerturning as opposed to a slow turn to retrieve a rider. (I am almost done with my degrees in Secondary Math and Applied Math and I would be more than willing to compile or help compile some figures if wanted). I think this is a point that escapes many powerturners. I was in a friends boat and he was powerturning to pick up the rider and I explained to him that he is wasting gas and he ended his powerturning days. <BR> <BR>I think another good thing would show people doing a proper turn to retrieve a fallen tuber or a skier, not just retrieving a wakeboarder that way it doesn't come across as something that only benefits wakeboarders, but all watersports, even the ones we don't find appealing. <BR> <BR>One more thing that you could explain is that the little extra time it takes to pick up a rider on a correct turn, gives the rider a bit of a time to collect his thoughts or catch his breath. <BR> <BR>I think it will do more good to come across in a noncondensending manner. The goal should be to educate not attack anyone. <BR> <BR>Instead of sticking the stickers to someone's vehicle, why not just hand them out to everyone at the ramp or at marinas or some of the dealers that are part of this board could have a stack of them by their register.

hawkeye7708 11-21-2009 5:15 PM

Don't Let This Be You! <BR><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AOltMu768" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68AOltMu768</a>

wakerider111 11-26-2009 1:31 PM

I made a few simple illustrations. what do you think about these guys? (when you can. i am sure we are all busy with the holidays and the auction, especially Mr. David Williams) <BR> <BR>keep in mind these are just illustrations. Descriptions and keys yet to be added <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/749116.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>Three pictures: <BR>1, Shows a larger wake when the boat is above wakeless but not fast enough to get on plane <BR>2, Shows a boat just going straight <BR>3, Shows a Power Turn with a downed-skier/wakeboarder/tuber/etc. (Orange dot) getting drowned by oncoming waves. as well as showing waves being sent in every direction <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/749117.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>a correct way to turn around to pick up a rider (orange dot). "stop" then turn around to pick up the rider (orange dot) at a WAKELESS SPEED. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/749118.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>a way to turn around to minimize wake traffic (only one set of rollers to cross), ALSO a way to drive a double up <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/749119.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>how a BIG loop style of driving causes waves to be sent in every direction

wakerider111 11-26-2009 2:02 PM

Until a more professional video can be made i bet the creator of this video would be more than willing to give permission to use link the video to the web site <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvOsvrhR4M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzvOsvrhR4M</a> <BR> <BR>it lists a lot of the reasons we have discussed for powerturning at the end <BR> <BR><font color="0000ff"><font size="+1">*****I think we should create a list of reasons*****</font></font> <BR>(some of the bellow i got from the above linked video) <BR>1. Safety of the riders (both the passengers on the boat as well as the watersports participants behind the boat) <BR>2. Fun for the driver <BR>3. Boat can be controlled more readily, especially in the event that a correction needs to be made <BR>4. Ruins flat water by sending rollers across the lake for the radius of the turn <BR>5. It's hard on the boat, engine, and boat fixtures (tower, speakers, etc.), and passangers <BR>6. It consumes more fuel <BR>7. Your rider will be swamped with waves and it makes it difficult to talk while circling around due to the higher speed and sound of the engine as well <BR>8. boat cavitation <BR>9. it is inconsiderate to other riders on the lake <BR>10. the water will be more rough for your rider(s) as well as others on the lake <BR>11. Your boat is more likely to take a wave over the bow, soaking your passengers and equipment, especially in an open-bow boat <BR>12. Tow ropes and handles will be twisted more and may wear out quicker <BR>13. Tubes and other towables can be caught by gusts of air and flipped over, causing increased drag and wear and tear on the towable, rope, and the boat attach-point <BR> <BR><font color="ff0000">^^please add more, edit what i have above, and whatever other things you can come up with to make the list visually appealing, easy to read/understand, and convincing, BUT KEEP IT "informative" and not destructive/mean. got to Appeal to the larger general mass^^</font>

mxjake720 12-13-2009 8:05 AM

this is useless.

wakeworld 12-13-2009 9:29 AM

Jacob, thank you so much for your insight and constructive criticism. I've already begun integrating some of your suggestions into the website. All of the previous posts on this thread were completely useless. I'm glad that somebody was finally willing to take the time to provide some quality input. A thousand thank yous!! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

mxjake720 12-13-2009 9:48 AM

sthe only thing a power turn does is waste gas...if you have a whole lake to yourself..why not?

jasonpav 12-13-2009 10:05 AM

Looks like someone here already needs to learn from the website <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

mxjake720 12-13-2009 10:46 AM

definately not i ride on large lakes. it doesn't affect me

bmcgee 12-13-2009 12:20 PM

"sthe only thing a power turn does is waste gas...if you have a whole lake to yourself..why not?" <BR> <BR>this is very true if you don't mind riding in your own chop... or tubing. Otherwise, i'm sure the massive rollers created from your powerturns is great on the shoreline. Some people argue that simply driving in a straight line in a slammed boat is detrimental to shoreline erosion on lakes with sandy/muddy shorelines. So i'm sure powerturning would only help speed up the process!

clubjoe 12-13-2009 12:53 PM

1. Powerturning affects safety of the riders because the boat no longer blocks the riders path from following watercraft. <BR>2. Powerturns send rollers in all directions, making the water more rough for your rider(s) as well as others on the lake. <BR>3. Boat can be controlled more precisely, especially in the event that a quick correction needs to be made. <BR>4. Passenger comfort. <BR>5. Powerturning consumes more fuel <BR>6. Your rider will be swamped with waves and your boat will be more difficult to manuever while circling near downed riders, due to self-generated rollers. <BR>7. boat cavitation <BR>8. Your boat is more likely to take a wave over the bow, soaking your passengers and equipment, especially in an open-bow boat. <BR>9. Tubes and other towables can be caught by gusts of air and, causing damage or lost equipment. <BR> <BR>Well somebody said edit away, right? .... <BR> <BR> <BR>No offense to my fellow riders, but a lot of these type threads sound like a bunch of self-absorbed whiners that feel they're entitled to speak for the water-loving community when it comes to what's "right." <BR> <BR>While it annoys me to see powerturners too, pointing out my opinion to strangers who may not know any different, is in actuality none of my business unless I own the lake. <BR> <BR>The alterations I made to the list was so it would hopefully look more like it -BENEFITS- the readers enjoyment on the water without telling them they are doing something that is not in -MY- best interest. <BR> <BR>Good luck on this venture Dave!

wakeworld 12-13-2009 1:10 PM

^^^ Nice, that's exactly what we need to highlight, the benefits to ALL boaters/riders.

wakerider111 12-13-2009 4:41 PM

thank you clubjoe for the edit and comments <BR> <BR>Any comments about my illustrations (i know some are not Power Turning Specific) are they usable? change em up or add to? send the file to_______? <BR> <BR>or someone has something better in mind that has some higher skills with adobe or other programs. or maybe the illustration department is filled already? <BR> <BR>i wont feel bad ;) just curious as i had not noticed anything

matt_ostmeyer 12-15-2009 10:29 AM

Well here's some verbage - looks better with some formatting and pics... I'll try to get into illustrator later - <BR> <BR> <BR>A friendly Service Announcement <BR>To Improve Your Experience Today <BR> <BR>No Power Turns! <BR> <BR>What is a power turn? <BR> <BR>(Picture of Boat Power Turning) (Diagram of Roller Path) <BR> <BR>When a boat turns under speed in an area of otherwise smooth water. <BR>The wakes from the boat travel both to shore and down the center of the channel, creating rough water across the entire waterway. Wakes sent down the channel do not dissipate – skiers, boarders and others will have to cross the wakes, including you! <BR> <BR>(Annotated Picture of bumpy boat jumping wakes) <BR> <BR>- Please - <BR>BE A CURTEOUS DRIVER! <BR>NO POWER TURNS! <BR> <BR>Wakes sent to shore are quickly dissipated on the shore, and do not cause unnecessary rough water. When turning around, pull throttle fully to idle before beginning turn, idle (no wake) through turn to pick up rider, and throttle back up in a straight line parallel with the shoreline. <BR> <BR>(Diagram of Proper Turn) (Picture of smooth water) <BR> <BR>This courteous “slow” turning technique will: <BR>Keep the water smoother for you and for everyone else. <BR>Consume less Fuel. <BR>Actually takes less time to pick up a rider <BR>Promote a safer environment for your rider and others – <BR> Less chance of losing control and hitting your rider. <BR> Less chance of turning into the path of an oncoming boat. <BR> Less chance of turning too wide and inadvertently running aground. <BR> Keeps your boat between your rider and oncoming boat traffic. <BR> Better prepares driver for quick, controlled corrections. <BR> <BR>Also, a slow turn will: <BR> Keep your rider from being swamped by your wakes before they get up and after. <BR> Prevent taking a wave over the bow. <BR> Keeps tow ropes from twisting and wearing out. <BR> Keeps passengers more comfortable, especially in the bow! <BR> Prevents cavitation, which can burn your propeller and wear it out. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Other Tips for Curteous Driving: <BR> <BR>Whenever possible, drive in deep enough water, but close to shore, in a straight line. This will allow your rollers to quickly reach shore and dissipate, clearing the water for a smooth pass next time down. <BR> <BR>Share the Cove! Safely follow the same path, on the non-windy side of the cove, with other boats/riders. When passing, raise hand to acknowledge the other rider/driver, turn around them and get back into their wake. This way, both sets of wakes will dissipate on shore and you will both share smooth water. <BR> <BR>(Diagram of proper pass) <BR> <BR>When following another rider, wait until there is sufficient distance between their rider and you. Use a four second rule – it takes 4 seconds for you to reach the same spot the other boat just passed. Be far enough back, that your rider cannot carve out far enough on either side to reach the wakes from the other boat. <BR> <BR>(Diagram of proper distance) <BR> <BR>Always signal your recognition of another boat’s down rider with a wave! <BR>Never come within a 100’ of the other boat or rider. <BR>}

matt_ostmeyer 12-15-2009 10:35 AM

Thanks to the previous posts - I tried to combine everyone else's input -- forgive the pilfering

wakeworld 12-15-2009 2:18 PM

Now that's the kind of "do my work for me" post I was looking for!! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Thanks Matt and everybody that he stole from! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

matt_ostmeyer 12-15-2009 9:48 PM

Just don't tell Chris I'm working for you <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> This is long overdue, I'm glad you're doing it!

matt_ostmeyer 12-16-2009 7:12 PM

Hey Jeremy any more illustrations? I like where you were going with them ---

jetpilotz 12-16-2009 8:41 PM

I think you should make it like a people of walmart site with pictures of powerturners. The only people who will visit this site are wakeboarders anyways. The odds of convincing a powerturner to visit the site, much less change his boating habits, are slim.

wakerider111 12-16-2009 10:52 PM

slim is better than none. <BR> <BR>Which one of you, having a hundred boaters, if he sees one of them Power-turning, would not leave the ninety nine wakeboarding-know-how boaters in the lake and go inform the one who power-turnist? <BR> <BR>plant the seed brothers (and sisters) <BR> <BR>--------------------------- <BR>matt, <BR>i don't have any other illustrations. i stopped there with what i could think of for the major things. also i did not want to go too heavy into it not knowing if it was something we wanted to work with. <BR> <BR>have any suggestions for me or others that are working on/ or will work on illustrations? <BR> <BR>------------------------------ <BR> <BR>on another note, i have learned a few extra tid bits from this thread alone. this is a good sign, and a bet a few other people could agree? <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wakerider111 on December 16, 2009)

pav 12-17-2009 5:42 PM

I don't do power-turns but always wondered if they were really faster. This summer I was pulling my rider and he fell at the exact same time as another rider from another boat coming from the opposite direction. I picked my rider up and was driving away before their rider even got the handle....oh, and I probably saved a large portion of gas along with saving the time. <BR> <BR>Thanks for trying to educate drivers and riders Dave! <BR> <BR>Now if they would just stop driving fast in and out of my cove (which is supposed to be a "known" no-wake zone according to the DNR).

wakeworld 12-17-2009 5:58 PM

Just got the stickers today. Regular ones and clingy one. I guess I'd better get my butt in gear on the website! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

lfrider92 01-28-2010 4:35 PM

just curious if there was any news about the site coming out soon?}

njskier 01-29-2010 7:33 AM

Dave Williams, I'd like to have some of those stickers. I might even have some t-shirts made up for my riders to wear. E-mail sent to you sir.

bfnaci 01-30-2010 6:51 PM

We had our worst year ever with power turners at the local lake. <BR>We have been posting about it ever since. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/53686/707917.html?1264551668" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/53686/707917.html?1264551668</a> <BR> <BR>I love what you guys are doing and want to support you, let me know what I can do?

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