WakeWorld

WakeWorld (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/index.php)
-   Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3183)
-   -   Wakeboard Injury Healing Progress - Get INSURANCE! (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=747537)

wakeboardsam 11-16-2009 5:11 PM

Hey All, <BR>I thought I would post up the progress for my ankle so far. I broke it on August 29, 2009 and had surgery on September 9, 2009. I had a plate and eight screws put in. My ankle (Fibula - Lateral Malleolus) was broken into eight large pieces and bunch of small ones. I broke it doing a back roll to revert or whatever you call it. I finished up my last physical therapy session last Friday. I saw the doctor today and he said it looks really good except that I have calcium deposits starting to take hold on my tendon directly across the third, fourth, and fifth screws. This is where the tendon is under to much stress after an injury and starts to turn to bone. In the picture below it looks like an inverted triangle and is light gray. <BR> <BR>For those people who wakeboard without insurance the total amount billed so far for my doctors visits, physical therapy, and surgery, etc.. is at $38,432 so far! This doesn't include the surgery for removing the plate next year either... <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/747538.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>I should be able to wakeboard again in February... it's been a long wait so far... at least I'm walking/running around again with little pain.

gunz 11-16-2009 5:44 PM

So you have insurance or no.....?

chilidog 11-16-2009 5:49 PM

Wow good luck on a speedy recovery, I broke my wrist after a dirt bike crash and that surgery was 75K before therapy or anything, total cost was over 100K, a grand out of pocket with insurance.....

justridin 11-16-2009 7:32 PM

"Over all boat prices are out of control. If you Americans think you are paying too much come up here to Canada and then you will understand that your prices are better them the boats sold in Canada. Even with the exchange rate. That is why alot of Canadians are going to the states and buying boats." <BR> <BR>When I read the above quote from another thread about rising boat prices, this thread's topic is exactly what came to my mind. The poster was right that boats (and everything else) is more expensive in Canada but our higher taxes and costs of doing business are at least off-set somewhat by access to universal health care. We don't have the added stress of huge hospital bills on top of the pain of an injury. I am not saying that the system is perfect but there are reasons why prices are higher north of the border. <BR> <BR>Good luck on your continued recovery.

05mobiuslsv 11-16-2009 7:47 PM

^^^I'll stick with the way we have it down here (for now anyway). At least we don't have to wait 6-12 months for a visit to receive mediocre health care by underpaid physicians.

wakeboardsam 11-16-2009 7:54 PM

Yup, I have insurance. So far I have paid my $1,000 deductable. I had surgery 2 days after I went to the doctor at a private hospital. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.azosh.com/" target="_blank">http://www.azosh.com/</a> <BR> <BR>Awesome so far, my doctor and physical therapist is awesome

tre 11-17-2009 7:15 AM

Of course in Canada you would still be on the waiting list to get the surgery.

krbaugh 11-17-2009 8:13 AM

In the US we are waiting to get on the waiting list if you check HR3962 page 1892 section 6 sub section 2345 paragraph 3456788 its in there <BR> <BR> <BR>That would be funny if it where not so true!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0>

justridin 11-17-2009 8:36 AM

"At least we don't have to wait 6-12 months for a visit to receive mediocre health care by underpaid physicians." <BR> <BR>I did not say the system was perfect, but those generalizations are false.

05mobiuslsv 11-17-2009 8:45 AM

Which part the mediocre health care and underpaid physicians or the long wait surgery times? I've heard and read they're both true.

psudy 11-17-2009 8:48 AM

No they are not.

canucked 11-17-2009 9:12 AM

The reason we have to wait longer for surgery is that we only have 1 doctor (his name is Bill). He has to travel around by dogsled so it takes a while. <BR> <BR>I think he is skiing in Whistler right now.

hatepain 11-17-2009 9:13 AM

<b>"The poster was right that boats (and everything else) is more expensive in Canada but our higher taxes and costs of doing business are at least off-set somewhat by access to universal health care."</b> <BR> <BR>You just explained the way you're paying for it for yourself and others. Pass! <BR> <BR>Sam, good to hear its coming along well and that you're receiving excellent health care.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 9:18 AM

LOL... OMG!! <BR> <BR>I live in Arizona most of the time and can tell you that the place is filled with Canadians having surgery and other medical procedures. When I went to the doctor originally they gave me a choice, either let the bone heal and hope it heals straight or have it heal crooked and walk with a limp OR have surgery and walk without a limp... I'm glad that I get the choice.

polarbill 11-17-2009 9:32 AM

Do they have ok doctors in Mexico? If I didn't have insurance I would buy a round trip ticket to Cabo, have the surgeries down there, stay there for a week and relax after my surgery and probably spend way less. Nothing cures you like Mexican beer on the beach.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 9:43 AM

I have been working the entire time my leg has been broke. I worked the morning of the surgery and was back at work the next day. I couldn't afford going to Mexico, let alone missing work.

duckguy 11-17-2009 9:44 AM

AFLAC

t0nyv831 11-17-2009 9:52 AM

Brett, my uncle had open heart surgery in Mex a couple years ago and he's doing just fine. Originally he wanted to come to the states, but decided not to. His doc told him he could do the surgery in Mex or here in the States. Also, many docs out there come over and get their degrees here in the states and work in Mex. Less liability. <BR> <BR>I have friends/family that live near the Mex border and go to Mex for all their medical/dental needs. Some docs out there even accept US insurance. Not to mention the buses that go south of the border every other week for prescription refills and what not. Def cheaper and can't go wrong with a few Coronas on the beach either.. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

justridin 11-17-2009 11:24 AM

"I've heard and read they're both true." <BR> <BR>Nu Bu. The sales manager at my shop unexpectedly required a kidney to be removed recently. When the pain first hit him he was looked at right away, the surgery scheduled and performed immediately without worry about cost, insurance coverage limits, or considering any travel. The surgeon who worked on him has a wakeboard boat and lake house which makes me think he is not too underpaid. Knowing this particular incident and something about the people whom work in the field is probably what made me post here. Based on living within this system all my life I believe that we do not have mediocre health care and what you heard and read, like many issues, probably has a grain of truth somewhere. <BR> <BR>Again, I did not say the system was perfect, but those generalizations are false.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 11:26 AM

LOL! <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By JK (justridin) on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:24 am: <BR>"I've heard and read they're both true." <BR> <BR>Nu Bu. The sales manager at my shop unexpectedly required a kidney to be removed recently. When the pain first hit him he was looked at right away, the surgery scheduled and performed immediately without worry about cost, insurance coverage limits, or considering any travel. The surgeon who worked on him has a wakeboard boat and lake house which makes me think he is not too underpaid. Knowing this particular incident and something about the people whom work in the field is probably what made me post here. Based on living within this system all my life I believe that we do not have mediocre health care and what you heard and read, like many issues, probably has a grain of truth somewhere. <BR> <BR>Again, I did not say the system was perfect, but those generalizations are false.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Wait till he needs to get something put in.. removing stuff is easy... <BR> <BR>Nothing like capitalism at work.. <BR> <BR>The United States has 34 CT scanners per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per million in Canada and Britain.[12] <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wakeboardsam on November 17, 2009)

wakemikey 11-17-2009 11:49 AM

Wow there sure are a lot of sad and uninformed statements being made.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 12:07 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 10:49 am: <BR>Wow there sure are a lot of sad and uninformed statements being made.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Please enlighten us WakeMikey, like you did yesterday in the Chucktronics thread...

05mobiuslsv 11-17-2009 12:20 PM

I'm listening wakemikey........ Why don't you drop some knowledge on us.

talltigeguy 11-17-2009 1:01 PM

27 MRI's per million probably means that we do too many MRI's. Not the other way around. <BR> <BR>I say that and I am a physician. <BR> <BR>There are elements of capitalism that don't favor the general public in a free market health care system. <BR> <BR>There are elements of socialized or government run health care that don't do well for the general public either. <BR> <BR>I wish there were a simple answer to the problems in health care.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 1:11 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 12:01 pm: <BR>27 MRI's per million probably means that we do too many MRI's. Not the other way around.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Of course we do to many MRI's, as you undoubtedly know we do them to cover someone's butt in a lawsuit. <BR> <BR>I would much rather have the option of having one done and not needing it versus needing one and not having a machine available or nearby!!

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 1:12 PM

BTW, Talltigeguy, <BR>What is your opinion on my X-Ray... lol! What can you tell me about the calcification of a tendon?

woreout 11-17-2009 1:28 PM

Wow JK a kidney removed Thats a bummer! <BR>What was the name of the veterinarian that performed the surgery.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR>USA already gives enough free stuff to people. <BR> <BR>Good luck with the ankle Sam. I myself have had 6 broken ankles, so I know the drill as far as recovery goes. <BR> <BR>Hey maybe that should be your new WW name "Ankle Sam" <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 2:04 PM

How did you break 6 ankles? Motocross or jumping out of airplanes?

woreout 11-17-2009 2:18 PM

2 when I was a kid competing in waterski jumping (I hit the side curtain two diff times) <BR> 1 when I was setting a jump record on a kneeboard off a 5ft ski jump <BR> 2 when jumping off a two story dock hitting a piece of 6x6 post under the water, and the last one just screwing around. <BR>They kill me now, especially when it gets cold.

canucked 11-17-2009 2:23 PM

Canada ranks 8th in average life expectancy, the US ranks 50th <BR> <BR>that's a pretty good measure of health isn't it?

psudy 11-17-2009 2:37 PM

No, not really. It isn't just a measure of healthcare. It doesn't take into account Murder rates, vehicular accident rates, obesity rates,etc.......

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 2:38 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Trapper (canucked) on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 - 1:23 pm: <BR>Canada ranks 8th in average life expectancy, the US ranks 50th <BR> <BR>that's a pretty good measure of health isn't it?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>BS... <BR> <BR>Preliminary findings show U.S. mortality rates for all cancers to be 166.3 per 100,000, compared with an average of 171 in OECD countries and a rate of 173.2 in Canada, 170.2 in France and 175.6 in the U.K. Last year the journal Lancet Oncology found that Americans have a higher survival rate for 13 of the 16 most common forms of cancer. <BR> <BR>Also: <BR> <BR>"there are many factors that weigh against a meaningful single number comparison of life expectancy. If populations being compared have the same characteristics, direct comparisons are more possible. If a population is stable (not growing or shrinking) and has been at the same birth rate for at least a generation, we would expect all ages be represented as an equal percent of the total, i.e. the distribution would be a graph represented as a straight line of percentage versus age. A difference in the average life expectancy of two populations might then be a measure of the quality of health care. <BR> <BR>If a population is growing then we would expect the younger members to be a higher percentage of the population. Comparing two countries with exactly the same death rate for every age group- one growing and one stable- would give a lower average life expectancy for the one growing. It would appear to have a lower life expectancy even with exactly the same death rate by age." <BR> <BR>"The current population distribution by age is an important factor. The shape of the distribution curve is important. It won't be a simple horizontal line for every population. Even in two populations with the same growth rate and the same expected death rate at a given age, if the percentage of members between 0 and 15 (years in age), 15-25, 25-40, 40-55, 55-70, and above 70, are different, we will compute different average life expectancies. <BR> <BR>The U.S. has: <BR> <BR>- the lowest median age, so one would expect that the percentages of younger members are higher than other countries. <BR> <BR>- the highest birth rate so more infant mortality events <BR> <BR>- the highest population growth rate, another factor that shows the distribution is skewed to the younger members and will be increasingly so in the future. <BR> <BR>In the near future we should expect Germany and Japan to have an increasing life expectancy if all other factors remain the same. That may not be true if the quality of health care deteriorates as escalating costs require rationing. <BR> <BR>The single comparison number of life expectancy is not a good measure of the quality of health care." <BR> <BR><b>NEXT</b>}

woreout 11-17-2009 2:52 PM

Its probably all the Canadians that moved south that are dying and screwing up our stats.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

talltigeguy 11-17-2009 3:51 PM

The other misconception is that healthcare = health. Most of your health is attributed to your habits and your genetics. <BR> <BR>We have a large population in the US that is full of bad habits of drug use, violence and teenage pregnancy. Those things cost lots to take care of. <BR> <BR>Sam is on the money. Our health care is the best in the world. Cancer survival rates are a pretty good indicator of that. We have lots of room for improvement, but some aspects of our system are the best there is. <BR> <BR>I think your fibula is healed very well. Looks like it is doing as well as can be expected with such a bad bunch of fractures.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 3:55 PM

Do you know anything about the calcification of tendons? What do you do to stop it?

canucked 11-17-2009 4:58 PM

I said health, not health care. Besides 63% of all statistics are wrong <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>It is true that I had to wait a few months to receive an ACL reconstruct. <BR> <BR>I was low priority because I was able to work and enjoy life while I waited for the surgey. <BR> <BR>but, my experience was nothing but positive. I can't think of a single time when i felt like I was given inadequate health care. <BR> <BR>As a side note: How much per month or year would typical Health Care insurance cost a person in the US? I really have no idea.

wake77 11-17-2009 4:59 PM

You guys crack me up. Only in America is EVERYONE an expert on healthcare, banking, running businesses, nuclear physics, etc. <BR> <BR>It doesn't surprise me that US life expectancy is lower, I believe it parallels the US obesity rate. But instead we can eat a supersized number 1, but since we have more CT scanners and MRI machines, we don't need any modification of behavior. <BR> <BR>If you don't believe the US is in dire need of healthcare overhaul (not just reform), you need to have your head examined.

wakeboardsam 11-17-2009 6:00 PM

I'm 35, have a $1k deductable, $1,500 max out of pocket, and pay $631/quarter and my boss gives me $100/month towards that. I had cancer when I was 26, so my premium is high.

woreout 11-18-2009 12:46 PM

Jeremy, <BR>you say only Americans are experts? Whats funny is how many Canadians come to Florida and tell us how everything should be and how everything up there is better. I ask "then why the hell are you here"<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>Another reason our life expectancy is probably lower is because we have a real Military and not a bunch of Dudley Dorights.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by woreout on November 18, 2009)

wakeboardsam 11-18-2009 12:50 PM

We have the same Canadians here in Arizona Billy. I love it when they are here in Arizona though, driving gets really, really interesting. They drive the wrong direction, drive 55 in a 75, and drive slow in the left lane. I also love how they add "Ehhh" on the end of all their statements...

woreout 11-18-2009 1:03 PM

We are loaded with the Canooks here in the winter and the driving gets the same way here. They are even worse drivers than people from Ohio. J/K <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> most of my relatives are yankees from Ohio. <BR>The Canadians always come into my shop and tell me how things should be done. Ehhh?

canucked 11-18-2009 1:24 PM

Yup, Canadians are always imposing their will on other countries...wait

psudy 11-18-2009 1:51 PM

Don't provoke us Trapper! As you can see, we are getting fed up with you canucks! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

wakeboardsam 11-18-2009 1:57 PM

Trapper, <BR>What do you think, do you think the numbers I provided above offset the price that you pay for "Free Healthcare"?

nar722 11-18-2009 3:44 PM

Wow, <BR>I just stumbled onto this thread to check out an injury healing process and it turns out to be a north/south war plus a health care issue. This thread will become longer than the boat bun thread. Let's also throw religion into the mix <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

wakeboardsam 11-18-2009 3:55 PM

Well, my boat is called the Golden Calf, does that count for religion? I still can't find any information regarding the calcification of the tendons... <BR> <BR>On another note, I', 60-70% healed according to the doc and should be able to wakeboard in February!

nar722 11-18-2009 4:15 PM

Sam, <BR>Good luck with the recovery....looks like you should be able to catch the spring season for snowboarding and then jump right into wakeboarding. <BR>as a small consolation, at least your injury happened near the end of summer

wake77 11-18-2009 4:23 PM

Billy, honestly. What does having a real(?) military have to do with the life expectancy rate of the country? <BR> <BR>Sam, we all know, there is really no such thing as free. And thank goodness you had insurance to cover your injury. But let me play devil's advocate just for a moment. <BR> <BR>Let's say you (hypothetic) lost your job. You had a family (hypothetic) to support and you were not able to afford Cobra. The unexpected (not wakeboarding, but stepping off the curb) happens and you suffer a broken ankle and require the same surgery to ensure your ankle properly heals. Is it right that you have to be cripple the rest of your life because you don't have insurance to pay for the surgery or you can't afford it? <BR> <BR>Or let's say that you decide to work out a payment plan with the hospital. One thing is the surgeon probably won't perform the surgery without being paid upfront (I know this is true in most cases from past experience). And the hospital bill is going to be much higher for a person without insurance as hospitals give insurance companies a significant discount. So you have 45,000.00 in hospital bills, but unfortunately you're in a cast, so you can't find a job yet. Your unemployment check and any money you had saved all go to groceries, etc. So how do you pay. <BR> <BR>Let me tell you what typically happens. The person chooses to default on the bill on the hospital is left holding it. But they have to recover their money somehow, so how do they do that. They charge higher rates, and then the insurance companies pass the costs onto their customers via higher premiums. <BR> <BR>So who's to blame in the whole situation? In a country that is sporting about a 10% national unemployment rate, many people are going to lose their jobs and with it many will lose their healthcare. <BR> <BR>I have insurance, but it bothers me that I am entitled to, well LIFE, more than someone that can't afford it. It's just a F'ed up situation that needs attention. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wake77 on November 18, 2009)

woreout 11-19-2009 8:07 AM

Jeremy, <BR>I'm sure with all the soldiers that have died in our military while fighting for our Country has had to lower our percentages. <BR>BTW don't take my posts too seriously. I'm kidding for the most part, I love you milky white bastards from the north.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> You guys at least come down here and spend some money every winter.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0> <BR>Its worth listening to a few "aaaays" when your helping out our economy down here.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0>

canucked 11-19-2009 8:57 AM

eh der bouy? <BR> <BR>Lard tunderin' ders more slang in nfld den der is icecaps on da water! <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR> <BR>PS sam, hope you get well soon

wakeboardsam 11-19-2009 9:02 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Jeremy (wake77) on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - 3:23 pm: <BR>Billy, honestly. What does having a real(?) military have to do with the life expectancy rate of the country? <BR> <BR>Sam, we all know, there is really no such thing as free. And thank goodness you had insurance to cover your injury. But let me play devil's advocate just for a moment. <BR> <BR>Let's say you (hypothetic) lost your job. You had a family (hypothetic) to support and you were not able to afford Cobra. The unexpected (not wakeboarding, but stepping off the curb) happens and you suffer a broken ankle and require the same surgery to ensure your ankle properly heals. Is it right that you have to be cripple the rest of your life because you don't have insurance to pay for the surgery or you can't afford it? <BR> <BR>Or let's say that you decide to work out a payment plan with the hospital. One thing is the surgeon probably won't perform the surgery without being paid upfront (I know this is true in most cases from past experience). And the hospital bill is going to be much higher for a person without insurance as hospitals give insurance companies a significant discount. So you have 45,000.00 in hospital bills, but unfortunately you're in a cast, so you can't find a job yet. Your unemployment check and any money you had saved all go to groceries, etc. So how do you pay. <BR> <BR>Let me tell you what typically happens. The person chooses to default on the bill on the hospital is left holding it. But they have to recover their money somehow, so how do they do that. They charge higher rates, and then the insurance companies pass the costs onto their customers via higher premiums. <BR> <BR>So who's to blame in the whole situation? In a country that is sporting about a 10% national unemployment rate, many people are going to lose their jobs and with it many will lose their healthcare. <BR> <BR>I have insurance, but it bothers me that I am entitled to, well LIFE, more than someone that can't afford it. It's just a F'ed up situation that needs attention. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wake77 on November 18, 2009)<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Jeremy, <BR>Let me explain how it should work, according to me. <BR> <BR>First, your parents should teach you the importance of an education and of hard work. They should instill you in you the importance of continually improving yourself and your skill set. You should not be dependent on a company or the government or your fellow man. <BR> <BR>You should pay for your insurance outside of work, go straight to Blue Cross Blue Shield or what ever company you want and buy insurance. You should negotiate for a higher salary as a result. You should work at your job, but also have a back up plan, maybe start a company of your own at night. Save money for this very situation. Be responsible for yourself, your lack of planning, saving, and being responsible for yourself and your family is not my problem. I have worked hard, why should I have to pay for your problem? If I want to help through charity, that is my decision, not yours. <BR> <BR>Also, no hospital can deny you service. In the scenario that you presented if you had good credit the doctors and hospital would be more than willing to do a payment plan. <BR> <BR>Now I know you are probably thinking what a jerk this guy is... and that is true, I am a jerk. But I have done the above. I joined the Army at 18, and served four years, it was the worst time of my life. I learned construction from my father while going to college. I opened my own business. I got testicular cancer when I was 26 and sat on the sidelines for two years. I then got my contractors license, and have built 59 homes in various parts of California, when the market was going south I got out, went back to school and got my masters degree in real estate development. I bought my own insurance (even with a pre-existing condition of cancer). I could go to the VA, but I will never go back there. Now I have a really good job doing litigation based appraisals. I have good insurance too. My family is fed and housed including three foster kids from Cuba. <BR> <BR>I made tons of sacrifices, but I was/am responsible for myself. <BR> <BR>So to answer your question, the guy in the above scenario didn't plan and it's not my problem. I don't care what the government does for the guy as long as it doesn't affect my and my liberties. The government could pay the bill and put the guy on a payment plan. When the answer does affect me and my liberties at a level we deem high enough my kind will just shoot the bastards. <BR> <BR>They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

talltigeguy 11-19-2009 12:49 PM

jeremy's scenario is playing itself out every day in the U.S. The hospital just shifts costs to those who do pay. The people then clamor for government to 'do something' about the rising cost of healthcare because we are all getting raked over the coals for health insurance to pay for Jeremy's hypothetical person. (Although his hypothetical person is usually a drunk guy with a head injury who runs up 7 figures in medical bills pretty fast.) <BR> <BR>The government 'does something' and cuts reimbursement to hospitals to be able to cover more people. My local hospital receives more than 50% of all its operating income from Medicaid and Medicare. Those programs actually reimburse less than the actual cost of providing the healthcare. So more cost shifting occurs, and insurance companies have to raise their rates. Then we demand the government 'do something' and the cycle continues. <BR> <BR>Politicians seem to be unable to make the difficult decisions about what to do. If we cut healthcare costs, we are cutting someone's income who will hire lobbyists...Unfortunately, one man's waste is another man's income.

wake77 11-19-2009 3:54 PM

Sam, How can you say it's not your problem? <BR> <BR>You HAVE insurance. When people don't pay for their treatment, the costs are indirectly (higher premiums) passed on to you and everyone else that has insurance. If you have car insurance and you don't have multiple accidents, you premiums get lower each year, correct? I don't care if you don't go to the doctor one time, your premiums for your health insurance are going to rise each year. <BR> <BR>And I'm sorry that we as a country have grown to a point where we feel that someone's right to live might infringe on other people's liberty. <BR>I'm afraid that a "higher being" might take issue with that mindset. <BR> <BR>And Billy, for your information, unless you refer to TENNESSEE as the north, I am a southerner. I also served 6 years (4 USN and 2 USNR) in the military so that is why I asked about your comment concerning the military.

wakeboardsam 11-19-2009 4:01 PM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Jeremy (wake77) on Thursday, November 19, 2009 - 2:54 pm: <BR>Sam, How can you say it's not your problem? <BR> <BR>You HAVE insurance. When people don't pay for their treatment, the costs are indirectly (higher premiums) passed on to you and everyone else that has insurance. If you have car insurance and you don't have multiple accidents, you premiums get lower each year, correct? I don't care if you don't go to the doctor one time, your premiums for your health insurance are going to rise each year. <BR> <BR>And I'm sorry that we as a country have grown to a point where we feel that someone's right to live might infringe on other people's liberty. <BR>I'm afraid that a "higher being" might take issue with that mindset. <BR> <BR>And Billy, for your information, unless you refer to TENNESSEE as the north, I am a southerner. I also served 6 years (4 USN and 2 USNR) in the military so that is why I asked about your comment concerning the military.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Jeremy, <BR>Of course it is my problem, but the way you referenced the scenario, the guy not being able to walk correctly IS NOT MY PROBLEM. <BR> <BR>Yes, there are problems with the current system and I would gladly welcome reform, it is needed. However I would not welcome any kind of reform where I rely on the government or anyone else to make my decisions for me. I am responsible for myself before my my brother. <BR> <BR>Samuel Adams Ingram - Oath Keeper

durty_curt 11-19-2009 4:03 PM

Sam, <BR>How in the hell do you write all these posts from an iPhone??? <BR>And what's your opinion for "flexible" bindings being a fellow culprit in this injury? <BR>And are you going to the family reunion this year? It's up at uncle slates; PS ruthan and Lynn will be there- your second cousins...

wakeboardsam 11-19-2009 4:18 PM

The cut and paste feature with the iPhone makes all the difference! <BR> <BR>I broke my leg by actually twisting my ankle. I just ordered a set of Watsons yesterday. I got them for $150 off eBay. I hope they are a little stiffer than the Vantages and release easier! <BR> <BR>As far as the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWEJPqJtZsk&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank">REUNION!!!</a>, yes I will be going... It's at Uncle Slayton's BTW. <BR> <BR>Why are you always talking about Ruth Ann and Lynn... like a old bois d' arc fence post you could hang a pipe rail gait from... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wakeboardsam on November 19, 2009)

durty_curt 11-19-2009 10:11 PM

...and do some, sister twister till the cows come home! oh man, we'll have us a time!

psudy 11-20-2009 8:32 AM

Don't forget the cherry vodka for the drive!

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 8:50 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Paul (psudy) on Friday, November 20, 2009 - 7:32 am: <BR>Don't forget the cherry vodka for the drive!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>What the heck are you talking about?

psudy 11-20-2009 9:19 AM

lol, I was referencing the song DC was refering to.

talltigeguy 11-20-2009 9:29 AM

Jeremy said: 'And I'm sorry that we as a country have grown to a point where we feel that someone's right to live might infringe on other people's liberty'. <BR> <BR>Actually this is the fundamental question here that no one wants to address. Health care does not equal your right to live. Rights are never something that can be purchased or services that others provide. The only logical end conclusion to this mindset is that those that provide it will have to do so for everyone regardless of the real cost of providing that service. The system will then implode under the burden. <BR> <BR>If you apply this principle to anything else, it would fail, but somehow people think healthcare is different, and does not follow any economic principles. Suppose you decided it is our RIGHT that everyone has a roof over their head. Then the contractors have to build me that home regardless of my ability to pay. What's going to happen to the homebuilders? <BR> <BR>Going a little off topic...the current legislation in congress is only going to make private insurance get more costly. It is really insurance reform as far as I can tell, not healthcare reform. }}

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 9:43 AM

Talltigeguy, <BR>Yup, the bleeding heart liberals are trying to destroy this country. <BR> <BR>We won't let them... <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/748204.jpg" alt="Upload">

jyoungusa 11-20-2009 9:57 AM

Explain the patch this airman is wearing.

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 10:06 AM

My brother's entire unit is wearing them. Just look it up...

wake77 11-20-2009 1:19 PM

"However I would not welcome any kind of reform where I rely on the government or anyone else to make my decisions for me." <BR> <BR>We live in a Republic, the government makes many decisions for you, I, and everyone else in the US every day.

psudy 11-20-2009 1:26 PM

So what decision did the Gov. make for me today?

woreout 11-20-2009 1:34 PM

Jeremy, dude I'm sorry I thought you were from Canada!! Sorry bout that, should of clicked on your profile. Hell,we might be cousins!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

wake77 11-20-2009 1:36 PM

Well, my local city government, decided to pass a water quality fee increase that is going to quadruple the current fee. They decided to hold a public hearing about it, but didn't tell people about it, and they held it at 1:00 in the afternoon.

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 1:41 PM

I believe that liberty is the only genuinely valuable thing that men have invented, at least in the field of government, in a thousand years. I believe that it is better to be free than to be not free, even when the former is dangerous and the latter safe. I believe that the finest qualities of man can flourish only in free air that progress made under the shadow of the policeman's club is false progress, and of no permanent value. I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave.

psudy 11-20-2009 1:55 PM

They didn't make a decision for you, they forced a policy on you.

woreout 11-20-2009 1:57 PM

Wow Sam that sounded like a quote from a famous person.

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 2:03 PM

Billy, <BR>It was...

wake77 11-20-2009 2:07 PM

Use any synonym you wish, but clearly they made a decision for me: If I decide I don't want to pay the fee, then I won't have water. <BR> <BR>"I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant" George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. all had slaves, do they fit your definition of tyrants?

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 2:22 PM

What is your point Jeremy? One person can't change everything. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both knew slavery was wrong and set the foundation for ending it. <BR> <BR><b>But what the heck is your point? What do you stand for?</b>

wake77 11-20-2009 4:06 PM

What do I stand for? <BR> <BR>Well, for one I stand for doing what's right. I am not biased to one political party. I think it close minded to tie yourself to one party ideas and come across with the notion that anyone's opinion that differs mine is wrong. <BR> <BR>I do not feel that govt healthcare is the endall solution to a problem. But a curiousity about it became more strong when I watch an interview with Bill Frist, a former republican senator from TN and heart surgeon. He seems to favor govt sponsored healthcare. Another person that favors it: Bob Dole and other former Rep. officials. <BR> <BR>It has become an issue where, instead of listening to new ideas, if a party (Dem. or Rep.) sponsors a reform, it is now popular to be against it if you are a member of the other party. I liken it to if we were in the 60's or 70's and a Democrat senator wanted to sponsor a bill saying smoking was harmful, all the Republicans would stand up and stay it is crap and that we are becoming communists because the democrats want to take away our cigarettes. <BR> <BR>I say that if we want to change things, we stop voting for people simply because of the letter behind their name identifying the political party.

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 5:53 PM

Well duh...

wakeboardsam 11-20-2009 5:55 PM

And if you think the current bill being voted on has anything to do with healthcare, you are not paying attention.

salty87 11-20-2009 9:58 PM

bill frist has a dog in this hunt as do many people in congress <BR> <BR>"Frist has a fortune in the millions of dollars, most of it the result of his ownership of stock in Hospital Corporation of America, the for-profit hospital chain founded by his brother and father. Frist's 2005 financial disclosure form lists blind trusts valued between $15 million and $45 million." from wikipedia, i'm not looking any further. <BR> <BR>if congress thought this was really a good plan, they'd have to use it as well. that's not going to happen anytime soon. 'separate but equal' was ruled as not equal a long time ago in this country. <BR> <BR>people used to be suspicious of big business and big govt but not any more. i have no idea why. this country was founded on the spilt blood of pioneers willing to struggle and fight for the freedom to live life...not to be taxed and have decisions made for them by professional politicians. politicians with better benefits. <BR> <BR>when did the pursuit of life and liberty become a guarantee of free healthcare? <BR> <BR>how does the govt justify subsidies to inefficient corporate farming practices that nurture a high fat diet that leads to higher health care costs?....oh yeah, because they make money off of it at the same time as they justify this weak 'healthcare reform'....of which they'll benefit financially or to satisfy some hatred for the 'other side of the aisle'. <BR> <BR>the 2 party political system in this country is a distraction from the reality that those in charge are looking out for themselves...and it's mostly the same people whether there are repubs or dems in control. <BR> <BR>how about the pork in the bill to buy votes? same old crap as ever. <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by salty87 on November 20, 2009)

krbaugh 11-20-2009 10:15 PM

I thing to say to everyone that voted for the current administration <BR>So how is that hope and change working out for you??

brett564 11-20-2009 11:00 PM

Wow. <BR> <BR>This must be what happens when winter comes and Wakeworlders don't have boating stuff to talk about...


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:01 PM.