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-   -   Parabolic twinzer build (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=730726)

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:20 PM

It's that time again! I have a few changes I want to try so I thought I'd do the entire build thread. <BR> <BR>I have enough foam for some projects. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Depending how I cut the rockers I should get a minimum of 6 blanks from that. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730727.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:24 PM

A close up of the two different boards. The BIG pellet board is 1 pound foam, the other is 2 pound foam. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730730.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:28 PM

The boards are 4'x8'x4" I lay out sections of 2'x5' and the end cut is 4'x3' which will allow me to cut a 4'5" blank diagonally. <BR> <BR>I use a circular saw to rough out the cuts. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730735.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730736.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730737.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:33 PM

I like to hotwire the rocker into the foam before gluing up the stringer. I attach the hotwire templates to the foam and then MELT IT! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730741.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730742.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:33 PM

I like to hotwire the rocker into the foam before gluing up the stringer. I attach the hotwire templates to the foam and then MELT IT! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730744.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730745.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:55 PM

Rocker hotwired into the foam. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730749.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 8:57 PM

I have a template that I use for various things and here I am using it to mark the curve where I will cut the foam to insert the stringers. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730752.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-01-2009 9:00 PM

I just use a jigsaw to cut the blank where the stringers will go. I sand both sides and that gives me the clearance to glue up the stringers. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/730755.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-02-2009 7:39 PM

I use GG to glue up the stringers to the foam. The foaming helps fill any imperfections. I also leave the stringers a bit proud at this point as I'll be shaping the bottom pretty extensively. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731043.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>I tape the pieces together to hold it in place long enough to transfer the whole mess into the bag. I leave it there for a few hours until the GG cures. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731044.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-02-2009 8:58 PM

Out of the bag and ready to mow. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731065.jpg" alt="Upload">

brewkettle 09-03-2009 6:29 AM

SD , i see you have alot of tail rocker on the core??

surfdad 09-03-2009 8:50 AM

Yeah, it's 1+ inch. The pictures are a bit deceiving because it's oversize. I'll end up trimming about 3" total from the length, most of that from the tail.

brewkettle 09-03-2009 9:12 AM

are you going to try a tail channel??

surfdad 09-03-2009 9:22 AM

We tried that a year or so ago with Roush. I noticed that SS is using that on their 2010 board - I think they are calling it the Elevation. It COULD add some extra drive and COULD help stability with sketchy landings, but we also found that it wasn't consistent. SS uses a V out the tail so that may help the consistency issue. <BR> <BR>Concaves can be a myriad of different shapes, I screwed one up (wait, I mean I shaped one DIFFERENTLY <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> ) and it wasn't a smooth semi-circle. I want to try shaping different caves on the bottom to seem how that affects speed and rail-to-rail responsiveness.

brewkettle 09-03-2009 10:18 AM

yea i think a v out the back with a channel is the way to do it if that is what you want.

brewkettle 09-03-2009 1:20 PM

I forgot that i saw grindwater with a board that had nose and tail channels at the expo 2 weeks ago.

surfdad 09-03-2009 8:27 PM

That's interesting that they have channels at the nose, might help stability some when the board is revert. <BR> <BR>I've "skinned" the blank to remove the proud stringers, excess GG and level the foam. Then I redraw the centerline and outline. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731412.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731413.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-03-2009 8:32 PM

I use a jigsaw to rough out the outline and then the electric planer to bring the foil down to what I've drawn. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731421.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731422.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-03-2009 8:37 PM

Electric planer, hand plane, surform and sandpaper to do the rail bands, rails, tucked portion of the rails and concave...ready to glass. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731426.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731427.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-04-2009 7:14 PM

Laminating the deck. First layer of 4 oz. I got some cheap E glass that is 50" wide. A 5 foot run will yield two 25" x 5' pieces, so I can get one top and bottom piece from that length <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731729.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-04-2009 7:16 PM

Trim one 24" x 60" piece to size and cut some darts for the wings and round tail. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731732.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-04-2009 7:17 PM

Trim one 24" x 60" piece to size and cut some darts for the wings and round tail. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731734.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-04-2009 7:23 PM

I mixed about 8 oz of epoxy to make sure I didn't run out. Spread that across the top, wet the lap, flip to do the lap and then flip back. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731739.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-04-2009 7:31 PM

I've been working on it for about 7 hours, spread over 4 days. All of the above could basically be completed in a single day. The epoxy needs to cure, so I am at a stopping point. The lamination portion doesn't require much labor hours, but the epoxy cures slowly, so the elapsed time is significant. Excluding the time shopping for supplies, I think it's possible to finish a board in 10 hours, spread over 7 days.

brewkettle 09-04-2009 8:59 PM

you are right about the time frame , i like your new stand, and are you just going with 4oz. on top deck or will you be adding some superfibers. no vac bag this time? I made a new stand as well its a box made from 2x10 wood 2' long with seadek on top and bottom, this box sits on a table that have been covered with plastic , i got sick of the SD style shoes and epoxy stuck to floor<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0>

rallyart 09-04-2009 9:00 PM

Hey Jeff, that new ventilation system seems pretty effective. I always like to see your shop photos.

surfdad 09-05-2009 6:18 AM

@ jim beam - no just 4/4 x 4 on this one. I'm testing the different bottom shape and it has a 90% chance of being crap <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> but...I have to test it. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> I'd love to see a picture of your new stands, can you post one up, please? <BR> <BR>@ art - you like that system? I have the entire OUT-OF-DOORS! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Although I just checked my lamination and I have 8,123,661 bugs stuck in the cured epoxy this morning. Sheesh.

brewkettle 09-05-2009 6:34 AM

a board sits on top of a box with seadek on top and bottom for traction, then it rests on my table . i think i will make a drain pain from plywood &amp; 2x4 that lays on the table so i can put zipzorb in to catch the epoxy when it drips instead of it dripping onto plastic. or better yet ask my dad to break some aluminum into a pan. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731778.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-05-2009 8:46 PM

Innovative jimbeam, <BR> <BR>Bottom lamination done this evening <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731907.jpg" alt="Upload">

brewkettle 09-06-2009 7:59 AM

need a little fast&amp; final on those bumps<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

surfdad 09-06-2009 8:10 AM

Yeah...lots of pukas in this batch of foam. Like I mentioned above, there is a 90% chance this will turn out to be a crappy design, so no need to waste the spackle <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>Final layer of deck 'glass curing as the rest of the family snoozes! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731923.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-06-2009 12:10 PM

I was inspired by the wicked resin swirls that Rock is doing for the MoB group's boards. JL posted them at the end of this thread: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/721849.html?1252253836" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/721849.html?1252253836</a> <BR> <BR>Taking inventory, I only had red and black! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>Anyway, it was fun! Like fingerpainting in kindergarten. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731967.jpg" alt="Upload">

09-06-2009 2:09 PM

The swirl work's best with 3 to 5 colors I like this build Jeff ,Rock is the featured shaper in the upcoming wake surf mag, segments on Rick's background, 2010Board line , plus some vac bagging ,stay tuned <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731980.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731981.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731982.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731983.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731984.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731985.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731986.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/731987.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-06-2009 4:36 PM

Thanks JL - Rock's graphics are sweet. Will Wakesurf Magazine show some of the omposite work that he's doing? <BR> <BR>My finished graphics. <BR> <BR>Deck <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732007.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>Bottom <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732008.jpg" alt="Upload">

09-06-2009 5:45 PM

working on the photos to use he will talk about the composite builds and show some of his vacuum bagging &amp; some other parts of Rock's work you will enjoy it for sure. On your board I like the top looks the bottom turned out Medieval .When we glassed the concept board #3 we used red &amp; white and it turned out like a Candy Cane, some colors don't mix as well as others <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732018.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732019.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-06-2009 8:21 PM

LOL! Medieval - like with Stretch and the ancient greek "ghetto"; Medieval, in this context, is ALSO anciet greek, that translates to: "wow! that looks like it was done by a TRUE master." <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

surfdad 09-06-2009 8:22 PM

I'm lookimng forward to some details on Rock's composite work. I'll look for it in the next issue of WM.

wakemitch 09-06-2009 8:50 PM

Surfdad, it looks like your board is a sacrificial altar

surfdad 09-06-2009 8:55 PM

LOL I don't even want to KNOW how you know that, but let me just clarify - do you mean that in the sacrifical altar is the "coolest board ever", sort of way? <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

wakemitch 09-06-2009 10:42 PM

Jeff, "coolest board eve"r sort of way. its the new lingo. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

surfdad 09-07-2009 5:31 AM

YES! I can't wait to use that in a sentence and be a hipster! "Hey sweetie, that new outfit looks sooo good! It's sacrifical altar hot on you!" I'll owe my lovely wife's reaction to you, Mitch! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

brewkettle 09-07-2009 5:43 AM

SD , chek out these wings , lol. <BR>everyone have a good holiday<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732069.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-07-2009 5:53 AM

I love the graphic! What board is that a picture of?

brewkettle 09-07-2009 6:01 AM

uhhh , you can find it on another site , it looks to be a wide diamond tail with wings

surfdad 09-07-2009 11:13 AM

LOL! Yes, I understand. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>I rummaged through the racks and found some yellow! For a more warm and inviting medival sacrifical altar look. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732166.jpg" alt="Upload">

hawaj 09-07-2009 12:16 PM

looks like board from hell <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

brewkettle 09-07-2009 12:22 PM

@SD did you tape up your fin boxes or install them after. <BR> <BR>@Petr how is your build going , no word in a long time??

surfdad 09-07-2009 12:30 PM

I installed the boxes afterwards. <BR> <BR>Petr, "from hell" in a super cool best ever board kind of way, right? <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> I'll NEVER learn all these new terms!!! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

hawaj 09-07-2009 2:11 PM

JIM - thanx for asking, thats funny, just RIGHT NOW I finished my first paint job. Shot pictures of it and I'm just in the middle of downloading them in PC and i will post them in my new thread.... So wait a little... <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>JEFF - dont worry, everything you do is SUPER COOL!!! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

surfdad 09-07-2009 3:41 PM

Super cool is my middle name! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>I'm done with this build, I believe my total time invested including the secondary yellow swirl hit 10 hours. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732256.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 09-07-2009 3:47 PM

Epoxy is funny stuff. It will get soft at the temperature it cures at, so if the board is built in 80 degree temperatures, 7 months from now if that same board is subjected to 90 degree temperatures the epoxy will soften - the typical result is a delam. <BR> <BR>Post curing is the process of heating the board up to a temperature HIGHER than the normal intended temperature, but less than 150 which is where EPS liquifies. This is my super duper specialized post cure oven. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> 2 mil garbage bag left in the sun. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/732272.jpg" alt="Upload">

hawaj 09-07-2009 5:08 PM

Oh that super simple smart!! And cool<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> too

hawaj 09-07-2009 5:13 PM

So when I lefted my board in dark sock on the sun it was just postcuring <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

brewkettle 09-07-2009 6:25 PM

i will keep mine in the jeep all day tuesday , then sand hotcoat.

surfdad 09-07-2009 8:53 PM

Yeah...that black bag absorps the heat and it will add 40 degrees to the ambient air temp. It's almost mechanically accurate. <BR> <BR>@ Petr - YES, postcuring not ruining it! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>@ jim beam - I've heard of folks doing that in any of the sunbelt areas. What I like with the garbage bag post cure oven is the consistent increase in temperature. I don't know why it's consistent, but in our weather I consistently get a 40 degree increase in the interior from the ambient air temperature.

caskimmer 09-08-2009 6:45 AM

I'll cook mine during construction for even better results

bartj 09-08-2009 2:57 PM

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> ha!

surfdad 09-08-2009 3:44 PM

I've done heat/post cure on an EPS board during a hot coat during summer and melted it <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Not better in my book, although watching it smoke was pretty cool. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> One of the benefits of high density foam is that it can withstand the heat. In a hand lam like this board, heating it as one side is laminated would tend to cause distortion. Caskimmer has rocker tables and cool tools! <BR> <BR>I'd guess technically epoxy has three stages of curing - initial which is just to the point of gelling, the B stage where it can be handled, and removed from clamping pressure, but isn't fully cured and then the final cure which can take weeks. In a true technical sense, post cure can be heating anytime after the initial cure. My understanding is that room temperature cure epoxies have a mix of elevated and room temperature components and so heating the cured epoxy activates those high temperature components so they crosslink. Post curing reduces the final curing phase from several weeks to maybe a day and also soldifies the heat deflection which is a huge problem for us out on the boat in July.


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