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-   -   single, double, or tri fin (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=722466)

hihowareu 08-03-2009 1:59 PM

what type of ride does each setup provide? im making a board and not sure what set up to use. im a beginner

ragboy 08-03-2009 2:21 PM

This page has some good info on board designs, and some fin info in it also. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.surfboardshack.com/board_design.html" target="_blank">http://www.surfboardshack.com/board_design.html</a>

hihowareu 08-03-2009 2:44 PM

so im making a 4'8" board and i was thinking of using two <a href="http://www.the-house.com/wk8hlsf35zz-hyperlite-wakeboard-fins.html?avad=932_d356329&amp;utm_source=avantlin k&amp;utm_medium=affiliates&amp;utm_campaign=816&a mp;netid=avant" target="_blank">http://www.the-house.com/wk8hlsf35zz-hyperlite-wakeboard-fins.html?avad=932_d356329&amp;utm_source=avantlin k&amp;utm_medium=affiliates&amp;utm_campaign=816&a mp;netid=avant</a> <BR> <BR>or would just using one 4.5 center fin be better?

ragboy 08-03-2009 3:40 PM

If you are looking at a surfboard, I would do a dual fin, or thruster, and use a future fin setup so you can do some level of tweaking. For a skim board, a single fin, and much smaller, like what you can get at inland surfer. Other than that, you are going to want to get advice from someone like surfdad.

hihowareu 08-04-2009 10:37 AM

whats the difference in surf vs skim? whats the difference of using 1 3.5 fin or using two of them

surfdad 08-04-2009 10:58 AM

Oh my - you should know better than to ask opened ended questions about building around me! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>I think the two most well known skim style board manufacturers are Phase 5 and now Inland Surfer. Skim style boards have nose and tail shapes that are typically the same "pintail" design. Also, the boards have minimal rocker - typically just an inch or so at the nose. <BR> <BR>For fins, skim style boards typically have a single "wakeboard" type fin in the trailer position - cemter of the board rail to rail at the tail. said fins are also very shallow to prevent them from hanging up during shuv's or when the board is ridden revert. <BR> <BR>I swiped this picture from the WO's Store page for the P5 prop. The black line at the tail represents the location of a small'ish fin - say 1 inch depth. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/722843.jpg" alt="Upload">

ragboy 08-04-2009 11:07 AM

regarding surf and skim, this may help some. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89w1FwIV-_Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89w1FwIV-_Y</a>

surfdad 08-04-2009 11:13 AM

The fin at the back like that will "elongate" turns. The board will turn less sharp when compared to the same fin moved up some. Also, breaking the tail loose is a bit harder with the fin further back "all other variables" being the same. Not that breaking a 1" deep fin is hard. <BR> <BR>Typically a surf style board will have the fins moved forward to around the 10" or so mark from the tail and also the nose and tail aren't the same shape. Surf style boards aren't generally designed to be ridden tail first or revert. They will also have a more pronounced rocker both at the nose and tail and are designed more for turning. <BR> <BR>The video that Robert posted is excellent. <BR> <BR>Another swiped photo, same source. You can see the inset "fin boxes" which depict the general location of surf style fins. These are called rail boxes because of their proximity to the rails on each side. <BR> <BR>You'll also note the angle at which the fins point towards the nose - that's called toe-in. <BR> <BR>More in a minute. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/87668/722846.jpg" alt="Upload">

surfdad 08-04-2009 11:24 AM

You may notice some low performance boards that have no cant or toe-in of the fins. Performance surfboards aren't ridden flat or straight ahead, they are always turning, slayshing moving about. IF you want to only go straight and keep the board flat - cruising while enjoying your favorite cool beverage - fins that were straight up and down and straight ahead would be perfect. <BR> <BR>If however, you planned to turn after said beverage was empty, toe-in and cant extend the angle of attack and provide lift. A board with the fins toed in and with cant will turn shaper and fast and feel more responsive than a board with fins pointed straight ahead and straight up and down. <BR> <BR>So...my first admonishment is do NOT stick those stupid fins you were thinking about on your creation, unless you wanted just one as the trailer on a skim style board. <BR> <BR>Fins provide control by adding drag. This is true for all fins regardless of location or style. More drag slows a board down, so in general, going from one fin to two fins, makes the board more stable, but also adds more drag. Adding a third fin compounds the effect. <BR> <BR>Surf style boards will have deeper fins, with longer bases which when the board is pumped or turned will provide drive or forward thrust. So the benefit of more fins is that when pumped, that energy translates to forward movement.

surfdad 08-04-2009 11:27 AM

So as Robert queried earlier - which flavor? Skim like the P5 or surf, like the EB pictured above? Big spins and 3 shuv's or carving and aerials? Once you know your destination, then you can design the board that'll get you there.

hihowareu 08-04-2009 12:00 PM

still deciding on what style, skim looks more fun but a little harder for a beginner. also on the building side of things.. im trying to stay away from fin boxes and use a wakeboard type bolt-thru fin. i was gonna drill my holes for the bolts extra big like maybe half inch, then tap the bottom and fill the holes with epoxy and then drill my final holes through the epoxy to keep water away from the foam. <BR> <BR>can you steer me in the right direction of some bolt on fins

surfdad 08-04-2009 12:14 PM

I have to ask, why would you want to avoid boxes? I'm having trouble with the concept that you'd go through the trouble to build your board and then install a fin system you'll out-grow the third week of riding. <BR> <BR>I think the typical wakeboard fin has one thru bolt and two locatng pins, so your concept works if you get the two locating holes also. 1/4-20's I do believe. I think it will be hard to recommend a fin(s) until you know which style you're building and even then if you're going surf style, you'll wish you hadn't in short order.

hihowareu 08-04-2009 1:39 PM

i was thinking the wakeboard style fins because it more cost effective, is there a cheaper surf style fin w/o spending 25 bucks a fin plus the boxes?

surfdad 08-04-2009 1:48 PM

$29.95 for the whole sheebang - two fins, two boxes and the FIRST in your collection of 8,127,665 fin wrenches. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.foamez.com/future-sb1-production-set-2-p-307.html" target="_blank">http://www.foamez.com/future-sb1-production-set-2-p-307.html</a> <BR> <BR>Foam-ez is pretty pricey, fiberglass supply is cheaper, if you can catch them, between bong hits so they get your order down. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> FS is where Show does all of his ordering of supplies and why his boards take LIGHT YEARS to complete. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

hihowareu 08-04-2009 3:13 PM

oh okay thats much better priced, so now im going for the boxes <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> so im deciding between the SB1 and SB3, not sure which i want, im using as a dual set up and with a slight cant inward

surfdad 08-04-2009 3:27 PM

YES! Another builder saved from the edge of fin disaster - my work here, however, continues. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>Go for the deeper SB1's in the cheap crappy Natural Composite (aka PLASTIC). If you feel it's more fin than you want, pop them put and grind them down using a bench grind to a smaller depth. My $.02.

hihowareu 08-04-2009 4:46 PM

awesome!! now all i need to do is find some damn EPS, its hard to find at a decent price, im getting quoted around 45 bucks for a 5ft by 2ft by 3in thick peice

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