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-   Archive through February 23, 2009 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=674223)
-   -   Poll - Wakeboarding payday from USOC ? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=671171)

redsupralaunch 02-18-2009 8:03 PM

<b>Seriously, give me your thoughts on the following:</b> <BR> <BR><i>#1 Do you ever think the United States Olympic Committee would ever offer a payday for wakeboarding placement? <BR> <BR>#2 Do you think wakeboarding will ever make it to the Olympics?</i>

dadthedriver 02-18-2009 8:13 PM

no <BR>no <BR>Do a search it has been discussed many times

redsupralaunch 02-19-2009 7:03 AM

Ben Thank You. Let me add some insight. <BR> <BR>As president of USA Wakeboard, I got to tour The USOC Training Center Chula Vista Ca a few weeks ago. They built a BMX track identical to the Beijing track-just for the athletes to train. No competitions there just practice. Its pretty cool. The athletes can stay there for $45/day use all facilities and room &amp; board with custom menus. Security is tight. There is a killer lake there but no one can swim in it, otherwise we would be able to use it. My next trip will be to CO. <BR> <BR><b>Everyone please give me your thoughts on questions 1 &amp; 2</b>

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 7:19 AM

No <BR>No <BR> <BR>Just like in skiing, I feel the organizations need to work on growing and developing the sport from the grassroots level, not try and become the next snowboarding. If a similar case came up in the watersports world as has happened with mini-dirtbikes, I would be scared to see what our governing associations would do to help. Nothing is meant as a shot at you Chris, always appreciate your work.

redsupralaunch 02-19-2009 7:56 AM

A-dub, Thanks. You hit it right on the head about Grassroots. We just sent grassroots press release yesterday here to Dave. We really cut some fat and give back to all the wakedads and shops that support grassroots. Geterputup Dave! <BR> <BR>2009 no doubt will change our sport. $ is not there from who we expect and coming from who we dont expect. Still need everyones answers

socalwakepunk 02-19-2009 8:33 AM

No <BR>No <BR> <BR>I personally think that waterskiing (3 event) SHOULD be an olympic event. It is objective (line length, # of balls), and can be strictly controlled. Wakeboarding is almost completely subjective, would be better to get waterskiing in first, then work on wakeboarding.

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 8:59 AM

Tank, <BR> <BR>I would agree, but the IOC doesn't. The fact that a motor can pull someone a barely measurable amount difference, means that results are subject to question. Wakeboarding would be like figure skating, gymnastics, and halfpipe. Judged event, and no speed/line length regulation.

ryan_shima1 02-19-2009 9:21 AM

I work for a USOC NGB and there are always issues, good &amp; bad, when a new sport comes to the table. IMO, being a judged sport isn't necessarily the problem, although the format would probably have to changed if it stood a chance to get approved. There are many sports, even those that aren't based on judging, that the end results come down to human opinion (referee's decision on DQ's, timing officials, line judges, etc). <BR> <BR>The issue of the boat being a machine, is an issue but I would think that with the tradition &amp; history that waterskiing &amp; wakeboarding has, there would be enough evidence which proves that with new improvements in PP/SG these days, a fair and consistent pull is more the possible. The only roadblock would be if the athletes themselves didn't agree. <BR> <BR>International participation is also a factor for a sports approval. Currently, I'm not exactly sure what that number is. On top of that, it would have to show that the number of countries that are participating can compete at a high enough level so that the competition isn't lopsided to a few countries or world region. <BR> <BR>Chris, I was at the OTC in Chula Vista last May for a training camp with my team and all I wanted to do was drop a boat in that lake and take a set. Everyday! It killed me <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>.

socalwakepunk 02-19-2009 9:24 AM

"The fact that a motor can pull someone a barely measurable amount difference, means that results are subject to question" <BR> <BR>Would that not be the same as a downhill skier taking a different line down the course?

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 9:34 AM

my point was there are tolerances with the speed on the boat. A skier chooses the different line, they don't choose to have a slightly faster or slower pull, plus as competitive skiers know, you can figure out certain things and tweaks to do to make Perfect Pass, or now Zero Off to react differently and help you out. That's why half of the slalom community hates ZO, cause it's harder to cheat, and hits you hard. <BR> <BR>I vote wakeboard and jump. They are the events that deserve it.

socalwakepunk 02-19-2009 9:45 AM

"you can figure out certain things and tweaks to do to make Perfect Pass, or now Zero Off to react differently and help you out." <BR> <BR>How would that happen if the officials were completely in charge of the tow boat?

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 9:51 AM

i was referring to skiing technique. In some events you get to choose a setting on the speed control. Basically it comes down to tolerances, and some people can slow the boat down enough to make the next ball, but still be within tolerance. Another competitor could have been on the high side of the tolerance and been at a disadvantage. This is just the feedback that has been given as it getting denied for years. I'm all for it, just giving what they give as reasons. The whole reason Perfect Pass was developed so quickly was to help with IOC approval, getting away from a manual control in the event.

socalwakepunk 02-19-2009 9:57 AM

"and some people can slow the boat down enough to make the next ball" <BR> <BR>I would figure that the tow boat would be caliberated by the officials, settings would not be allowed to be changed by anyone. As far as tolerances, well that is the minute differences as the terrain in different paths down the mountain. Technique helps in certain conditions in ALL sports. I do see your (IOC's) angle, it is a flawed logic. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by socalwakepunk on February 19, 2009)

to_blind 02-19-2009 10:15 AM

I think a better question may be "Why on Earth would we want wakeboarding to be an Olympic sport??" <BR> <BR>Sure, public awareness would be up. With that comes growth, which leads to more boat traffic... <BR> <BR>Increased funding to the sport...a positive with very few drawbacks. <BR> <BR>The return of "the contest run". Does anybody really want to see that? I know I don't. Lets focus on freeriding, individuality, expression, "feelgood" riding, etc. <BR> <BR>WakeDads/WakeMoms, etc... would have a legitimate reason to be as nutty as they already are. Ever seen a 12 year old boy apologize to Dad with tears in his eyes " sorry I missed that scarecrow, Dad"....it's a horrible thing to witness, and happens in all "competitive" sports way to often. <BR> <BR>The whole motorized/boat is a machine issue is a joke. When skiers/snowboarders start walking up the mountain as opposed to taking the lift, then we can begin that discussion. Imagine that. Like present day skiers, us wakeboarders also need a little help to be able to hit that wake/halfpipe/etc. The Olympics have grown in such a fashion that I believe the Greeks would be disgraced. <BR> <BR>Just my humble opinions. As a wakeboarder, I personally never want to see wakeboarding in the Olympics. And as someone who has competed/hosted/judged/drove/you name it @ many wakeboard comps, I have yet to witness anything close to the stoke that is delivered when you and your riding buddies/family/etc. have a great day on the water, progressing, laughing, chillin' out, etc. I say lets chase that dream, the pursuit of the stoke, and leave the Olympics to speed-walking and ballroom dancing.

socalwakepunk 02-19-2009 10:20 AM

^^^^ Liking it!

wakex2wake 02-19-2009 10:21 AM

i honestly think the kicker here is that there's a motor involved... i mean yeah bikes, boards, skis, and even attire all attribute to give one athlete an advantage over another... or play to an athlete's strengths/preferences... understanding that conditions change (ie during a Giant slalom downhill race it is well known that the course can improve to a point and deteriorate to a point)... i think w/ water conditions aside that wakeboarding would be one of the most unbiased contests out there... most pro riders can absolutely throw down in the chop anyways... i honestly think the olympics should be kept motor less however in keeping w/ the deep rooted traditions of the games... i really think its a long shot for less mainstream action sports to be included in the olympics... <BR> <BR>maybe wakeboarding should work on getting back into the x-games first then when golf gets back into the olympics then wakeboarding might have a chance

justinh 02-19-2009 11:38 AM

I personally believe that the olympic commitee and the rise of wakeboarding almost killed the sport of waterskiing a few years ago. <BR> <BR>Years later, waterskiing never made the olympics and they are still trying to reverse all of the rules that made the sport so exclusive. <BR> <BR>Olympics = bad news.

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 11:45 AM

Can you elaborate on the rules that made the sport so exclusive?

justinh 02-19-2009 12:09 PM

It mostly had to do with the cost of the equipment to have a record tournamnet: Trick timing cameras, video jump meters, etc. <BR> <BR>As everyone has stated above, there are a lot of subjective elements to the sport. They can be managed out, but the cost is the soul of the sport--like Derek said. <BR> <BR>I guess that it could get our sport a lot of exposure. Look what it has done for synchronized diving. If it wasn't in the olympics I wouldn't even know that it existed.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

behindtheboat 02-19-2009 12:14 PM

Word, I get what you're saying. The equipment for record tournaments are mainly the result of technology, along with people actually cheating and so now things need to be regulated. Like you said though, it killed the soul of the sport when people cheated. At local record tournaments here since they have to record the trick runs they just live feed it. So now instead of judges sitting outside in the sun they're in the basement of a house on the lake watching it on a big screen. Pretty cool I think

ryan_shima1 02-19-2009 1:09 PM

The issue of cost could have been a factor in the past but I don't think that would be the case now since most Olympic venues cost near, if not over, a hundred million dollars. <BR> <BR>Even if you had to build a new lake for the event, and factor in the costs of boats, fuel for practice/competition runs, camera technology, security measures at the site, staffing, etc I don't think it would be that much more expensive then many sports that are already in.

wake77 02-19-2009 8:35 PM

I don't think it is feasible for wakeboarding to reach the Olympics. I think you have to step up gradually. First, back into the X-games and then maybe a part of the summer Dew Tour. If waterskiing was already a sport in the Olympics, then it might be plausible. <BR> <BR>Think about it. Baseball and Softball are gone for at least the next Olympics and possibly longer. Golf, which has way more of a following, is not an Olympic sport. My opinion is these sports would be more favorable for the masses than wakeboarding. In any public poll, wakeboarding vs. baseball/golf as an olympic sport wakeboarding loses everytime. <BR> <BR>Not that I necessarily agree, but I don't see wakeboarding as an Olympic sport.

tommmyd 02-19-2009 10:59 PM

Engines aren't allowed in Olympics, humans or human powered only.

redsupralaunch 02-19-2009 11:09 PM

WOW - Y'all had some great posts and I respect all of you for that! <BR> <BR>My thoughts for those who are stuck on the machine conundrum. Lets go way back to the ancient games - Archery or todays rifle? Now compare that to a cable park. The facts are that it is not about machines its about global sports. Skiers just wont accept that there are very few waterskis in Iran or Africa and geek out like skiers do to make up some story that they must not have got the speed control engineering right. Wakeboarding has so much more of a global market than ever before. There is a cable park in Iran. I dont know how many ski/wakeboard boats are in Croatia but there are some damn good cableparks. <BR> <BR>Soul of the sport - Your right the soul of downhill skiing is being with your friends and family on a mountain with some powder. Soul of the sport is not Brody Miller, but GOD is he fun to watch and gets the best TV ratings. <BR> <BR>I love Dallas as a competitor. In the same way as above, she is not the soul of the sport, but you can count on her to win gold. Which is why USA Wakeboard is sending her to the 2009 World Games in Taiwan to bring home the Gold and we are proud of her.

oneoffpost 02-20-2009 4:47 AM

Chris if you are head of usa wakeboard it surprises me that you know so little about wakeboarding. What has cable tows in Croatia got to do with boat riding in the olympics? Did you not realise that the majority of cable riders are not competitive behind the boat? I don't know if you noticed but it is unlikely that Dallas will be bringing home any gold medals any time soon, not if nicola Butler is riding in the same contest anyhow. <BR>Derek you are probably right that wakeboarding is a bad idea in the olympics and i agree with plenty of what you said about pushing it in a different direction to contests. Contests have their place but spending all our time and money on an olympic bid is just crazy. However when will people stop coming up with dumb arguments against the whole boat thing. What has how you get up the mountain to ride half pipe got to do with coming back down under your own steam? when people come up with statements like that it just makes wakeboarders sound dumb. I thought the whole point was that If you are propelled by something other than natural elements (wind, gravity, muscle power) then it would not be allowed. All i'm saying is if you are gonna argue at least make sense if like Chris you give the impression that you don't know what you're talking about.

redsupralaunch 02-20-2009 7:08 AM

Oneoffpost - I welcome your comments, and agree with you that people need to quit with the boat thing. I will also add to that wind, gravity ect. Today it is about global participation. <BR> <BR>About Cable, I have a more open mind to say that cable might very will be in a better position someday to make it to the Olympics before wakeboarding behind boat if boat sales continue to tank and cableparks keep going up global. <BR> <BR>About World Games <BR>World Games is an invite only event. There is no payday but the trip is paid for. Because IWSF is governing body to IOC it is therefore to World Games. It is the the IWSF world ranking list that gave Dallas and Raimi the top positions for Womans Team USA at World Games as it is an Invite only event We were givin only 3 slots. Andrew accepted the other for Mens. <BR> <BR>About IWSF World Championship <BR>This has a very large payday. Nicola could ride as an individual rider as it is a Open Event. Performance in USA Wakeboard events (Board UP and USA Wakeboard Nationals) combined with IWSF World Cup Series is used as a ranking list for Team USA. <BR> <BR>I have to come clean on why I asked these two questions. USOC has notified USA Wakeboard of inclusion of increased funding to USA Wakeboard <b>athletes</b>. We will have more details next week. It involves payday.

headhunter 02-20-2009 7:18 AM

Chris, why couldn't you get together with WWA to change dates for BoardUp or Wake Games? I would think that putting on more noticable tournaments in the US would benefit USA Wakeboard, than worrying about the Olympics, which will never happen.

timmy 02-20-2009 7:23 AM

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>Engines aren't allowed in Olympics, humans or human powered only.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>What about the equestrian event, where the person with the best (most expensive) horse has a huge advantage? <BR> <BR>I personally think that wakeboarding/waterskiing should not be in the Olympics.

justinh 02-20-2009 7:48 AM

#1-No <BR>#2-No <BR> <BR>Please talk to some of the other division presidents at USA Waterski. Ask the AWSA guys. I do not think their olympic experience was very positive. I may be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

wkbrd 02-20-2009 11:59 AM

Chris - if you are getting training money why not develop a program or JR development program for some of the younger kids that may not be fortunate enough to be able to train with coaches like Mike Ferraro. This was tried a few years ago and I think was successful.

ryan_shima1 02-20-2009 2:26 PM

I won't answer for Chris on your question Jim, but in my experiences with my sport, the USOC decides in many cases how you get to spend the money that they provide to NGB's. Many of it goes toward specific programs, projects or competitions but the NGB doesn't always get to decide on how the resources are spent. <BR> <BR>Not sure if it's the same with USA Wakeboard but my hunch is it would be the same.

redsupralaunch 02-20-2009 9:15 PM

Ryan, you are correct this is specific funding for placement. <BR> <BR>Jim, I am all about grassroots and Jr development. That would be my choice but this funding is not. You did give me an idea. <BR> <BR>Ryan - your killing me with that thought about dropping in a set at Chula Vista.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>Tim - What is your objection to wakeboarding being in the Olympics?

kneeboarddad 02-23-2009 7:06 AM

Chris- <BR> <BR>Austin had the opportunity to live the Olympic experience at the Pan American Games. Pan Am is under the auspices of the USOG and the event is almost identical to the Games. We went to Rio to watch and I have to tell you it was absolutely one of the best experiences if it weren't for the fact Austin injured his foot the week before and could barely ride. Even with that it was very cool representing the USA, living at the Olympic Village (Austin) hanging out with all types of athletes. Touring Brazil. It was awesome <BR> <BR>There are many obstacles to this but the biggest, and to quote Walt Kelly, "We have met the enemy and it is us". <BR>I would love to see it but until the sanctioning bodies and promoters figure out how to unify the sport I feel it is way too fractured to go to the Olympics. Or to even grow to its potential. <BR> <BR>Good luck.

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