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-   Archive through December 15, 2008 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=655460)
-   -   How much is too much? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=648054)

jackeh 11-30-2008 4:58 PM

i was thinking how much ballast is too much? <BR> <BR>hmmmm because the last time i went to the lake i filled up all the sacks i bought about 600 in the back and 260 in the front, and my dad was freaking out that if we hit a roller we would sink. after driving for a while he didn't really mind but how much is too much?

sidekicknicholas 11-30-2008 5:30 PM

if your boat is the 205 in your profile i would guess 2,000 lbs and you'll still be fine

roughrivermike 11-30-2008 5:38 PM

I think that nick is correct. Your boat makes a very nice wake without too much however. It really depends on how many people are in the boat. I'll bet that the setup you used above was nice if you had a few people in the boat.

jackeh 11-30-2008 7:22 PM

yeah we have a 1998 205. <BR> <BR> <BR>we usually have 3-7 people. <BR> <BR>anyone have pictures of slammed 205's????

jackeh 11-30-2008 7:23 PM

oh and mike you have the most amazing new x-star i'v ever seen. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

bill_airjunky 11-30-2008 10:46 PM

I'm not sure you'll sink the boat, but having that kind of weight in the boat will make it a lot easier to accidentally take one good wave over the bow. <BR>I ran over 800 lbs of ballast in my 94 205 for a number of years. I really had to be on the ball watching for waves from any direction &amp; would quickly maneuver the boat around so I could catch it on the bow. <BR>Now with the Vride I can weight the boat even more &amp; not worry about everyone else's wakes.

bftskir 11-30-2008 11:40 PM

when/if you sink...that was too much. <BR> <BR>question: as far as insurance if you have a boat "fully charged" with ballast/water and you sink will the insurance still cover you if the ballast is not "stock" or would it make any difference? anybody know? firsthand experience?

denverd1 12-01-2008 6:12 AM

^ all i've heard is speculation. Lead/fixed weight is another aspect. The concensus seems to be if you're over the weight rating, then you would have problems getting it covered. <BR> <BR>Surely someone has overloaded their boat with ballast and people and took on more water than they could pump out...

salsajs3030 12-01-2008 7:46 AM

Sac your boat out, don't power turn, and you'll be fine. The only people I see swamp their boats are power turners -typically novice drivers. <BR>Never seen a boat sink from swamping it.

liquidmx 12-01-2008 9:29 AM

Generally experience will tell you. Most people see problems with a lot of weight due to jumping from stock ballast to 3k+ without any build up in the process. Then when their boat acts completely differently from the extra weight they dont know how to respond as the driver. Just build up weight slowly as your skill level and driving levels progress. You will know when you hit a point of diminishing returns, and where and when to stop adding weight.

nbigger 12-01-2008 10:51 AM

If you use water to weight the boat and take a huge wave then it will float because of the buoyancy of water. If you use lead or shot then the weight could pull the boat down when swamped.

wakeslife 12-01-2008 12:50 PM

The X1 in my profile has a total of about 2000 in it, which is more than enough for me and anyone I ride with. You can tell how low the mid-front sits compared to a 205 with no weight. Haven't really had a problem taking on water, but then again we don't power turn and are usually one of the only boats on the water. Sometimes though with a bunch of people you have to slow down less abruptly to prevent the rooster from coming over the back...

bill_airjunky 12-01-2008 1:05 PM

<i>By Nick Bigger (nbigger) If you use water to weight the boat and take a huge wave then it will float because of the buoyancy of water. If you use lead or shot then the weight could pull the boat down when swamped.</i> <BR> <BR>This is such crap. If your boat is swamped, you run the risk of having a huge amount of problems with it. Steering, starter, alternator, engine being hydrolocked, mold, water getting places that it can't escape from, etc. etc. If my boat was swamped, it hope it heads straight to the bottom. Insurance can have it, because I don't need the problems. <BR> <BR>I have rarely had problems being swamped anytime I'm under way. It's when I'm sitting still &amp; some yahoo cruises by slowly &amp;/or fully weighted that I've had problems. The gunnels on the 205 are not that high to begin with. 2000 lbs on board, not only are you overweight, no matter how you do it, but you need to be aware of everything around you. And when someone throws a wave your direction, be sure you can take it without getting swamped.

sidekicknicholas 12-01-2008 1:15 PM

2k in a 205 isnt that much.... I've seen old school ski boats with tiny tiny gunnels run that and more and be fine... that boat can handel a lot, people with 205v's/x-stars/x-2/x1 load them and have no issues... <BR> <BR>I would personally run about 800 in the back, 600 in the front... 2k without a new prop maybe pushing it but 1500~ <BR> <BR>Airchairs don't need quite as much wake to do sweet tricks, so I would take Bill K's advise with a grain of salt

dhands88 12-01-2008 1:21 PM

I never have a problem i have four stock ballast tanks (23 lsv bu) another 600 n front another 750 n floor. and 1 600# sac on each side of engine on top of hard tanks and 6 peeps n the boat and my boat doesnt come close to taken n water. maybe if wave was head on maybe some over front but thats it.

bill_airjunky 12-01-2008 2:14 PM

Yea, I can appreciate that you guys need a bit more weight to pull off what you want. I'm just giving you the facts here. <BR> <BR>The OP asked how much is too much. So based on what your boating experience is like &amp; what your lake/river is like, 2k in weight can be good or bad. If your not an experienced boater, another boat's wake may surprise you when it doesn't just go right on by. If your under way, it will probably be easier for you to hit it with the bow &amp; have no problem. But if you catch it sideways or from the stern, or chop the throttle as you go over it, things can get hairy quickly....... and it doesn't matter if your using lead, water or a bunch of friends for weight, the sheriff, Coast Guard &amp; your insurance company will look at it all the same way. If your overweight, then your overweight. And if your boat sinks to the surface, it's the same as if it sinks to the bottom.... your all wet. <BR> <BR>Check the load rating on your boat.... it's a metal placard by your throttle. And use that as you see fit. <BR>While I'm usually way under that rating, we have done exhibitions &amp; shows with the Vride with over 3500 lbs on it. And the 205 with quite a bit more than 2000 lbs. You just gotta be careful when your doing it.

stephan 12-01-2008 2:55 PM

We also have a 1998 205. We put a 650 in the back a 650 in the nose and 350s on either side of the engine. Usually we only ride with a few people but you put 8 people in there and things get fun. It won't sink we've been doing it for years.

jackeh 12-01-2008 3:24 PM

thanks everyone. i put less than 1000 pounds in it i put close to 800. so i'm not to worried. the load rating is 1380 pounds. so 800+150+150+150=1250 (we usually have 3 in the boat one in the water) so i'm still under weight. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>i'll just be careful.

nbigger 12-01-2008 5:00 PM

Bill I never said you would not have problems with a weighted boat. Even if you do not swamp a boat, weight will causes more stress on a boat. So does pulling 20 skier's in a pyramid. I use 2 pops bags to even the wake and 1000lbs in fat sacs in my 90 Sport Nautique. I love the wake and have not had any issues. I have chilly dipped the bow and had a roller come over the transome because of the angle of it, but nothing that even touched the motor.

bill_airjunky 12-01-2008 6:31 PM

True Nick. But you also said "If you use water to weight the boat and take a huge wave then it will float because of the buoyancy of water. If you use lead or shot then the weight could pull the boat down when swamped." <BR> <BR>I didn't mean anything about running a weighted boat. What I mean is that if the boat is swamped, and it's weighted with water, and you now have so much water in the boat to cause it to be "pulled down" as you put it,...... <u>it really doesn't matter if it sinks to the water's surface or to the bottom of the lake, I don't want it anymore. And I can't imagine anyone else will want all the problems that come about when a boat sinks to just below the surface</u> <BR> <BR>It ain't a pretty sight. The boat will likely have a ton of problems forever. <BR> <BR>I have scooped a few gallons of water in the bow of my 205, even when it was weighted with lead/steel, and had 3 or 4 people on board. But it never even came close to "pulling the boat down" as you described.

pwningjr 12-01-2008 6:57 PM

Bill, If I understand this right, I think the problem with lead vs. water comes with salvage costs/troubles. You just can't leave a boat filled with gas, oil, and who-knows-what on a lake bottom, it has to be pulled up due to environmental reasons. Thus the reason for keeping the boat on the surface if swamped.

jackeh 12-01-2008 7:54 PM

if you have 2 bilge pumps and your boat gets swamped can you empty the water out? i'm talking pretty darn swamped. lots of water. <BR> <BR>what about a fat sac pump to empty water?

bill_airjunky 12-01-2008 8:11 PM

I think you have to get caught in either case, Dan. I've only known of two boats that sank. One guy had a Supra go to bottom of Lake Sammamish in crappy weather. The other had a Malibu sink to the surface of the water at Lake Entiat (central WA), because he was overweight. Neither guy was caught by the authorities. I helped pull them both out &amp; both leaked a little bit of gas &amp; oil but not a lot. Probably would be different if you started removing caps before they were up. We actually plugged with fuel vent with chewing gum in one case. <BR> <BR>In both cases we used a big gas powered sump pump sitting at the surface. The Supra had to be lifted by hand.... well, about 30 hands. It was in about 10' of water. We ran ropes under it, tied to the bow, stern, etc. Then lifted it up till it was at the surface, and then started pumping. Both owners got the boats going initially, but then had system failures galore after a few weeks.

malibuboats4 12-01-2008 8:24 PM

woah woah woah bill... you pulled a boat up by hand with 30 people? no way...

bill_airjunky 12-01-2008 8:31 PM

It was in a boat slip..... docks on both sides, boat ramp 30' away. The boat was actually pretty light till we got close to the surface. Then there was a lot of grunting goin on. We debated putting a Zodiac under it &amp; inflating it but we were able to get it to the surface &amp; then get the sump pump going. That thing pumped a ton of water in a hurry. <BR> <BR>Lakewood Shores at the north end of Sammamish. Go ask around. Several of the guys still live there. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bill_airjunky on December 01, 2008)

rallyart 12-01-2008 10:10 PM

Jack if you swamp your boat you put in maybe 900 gallons to fill it up. Could be a lot more. <BR>And you've got two 1000 GPH bilge pumps, and the battery doesn't short. It will only take half an our or so to empty it. <BR>Really swamped is indeed, Really Swamped.

westsidarider 12-01-2008 10:31 PM

as long as you can get the boat on plane somehow there is no such thing as too much ballast

ironj32 12-02-2008 5:00 AM

Jack - my buddy has a '96 205 and we run about 1100 in the back, 250 on each side of the engine, and another 1000 up front. we also have about 3 people in the boat as well. so we are pushing about 3000 in total weight in his 205. <BR> <BR>In my 2000 XStar (205v hull) I run around 4000-4500 in just ballast alone. You should not have any problems with 860 lbs of ballast.

jackeh 12-02-2008 6:07 AM

thanks everyone. now i'm not so worried about the weight. i really love the boat so with this added weight the wake is just perfect for me. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>on another subject i just got a wakeskate and was wondering what speed and rope length to ride at.

benjaminp 12-02-2008 7:10 AM

Just to kick it back to the original question for a second, read the Keith Lyman article on the home page, he has an LSV and describes his weighting as "enough weight to the point where the boat won't plane, then drain just a little". Probably a fair amount of weight.

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