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-   Archive through September 22, 2008 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=630180)
-   -   Backroll? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624787)

jackeh 09-09-2008 6:21 PM

i'v just started landing all my wake jumps and i was wondering what is the first trick i should try. <BR> <BR>backroll maybe?

balr54 09-09-2008 6:26 PM

I would start with grabs, then get your 180's down before that. Then maybe try a backroll or a spin. (not that I took my own advice) <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

ncsuuh 09-09-2008 6:27 PM

180's. Wish I had started doing those before backrolls

jackeh 09-09-2008 6:31 PM

to do the 180 i need to learn to ride switch. <BR> <BR>any tips on riding switch? <BR> <BR>then any tips on the HS 180?

byrd 09-09-2008 6:57 PM

"any tips on riding switch?" <BR> <BR>YEah, ride switch as much as possible. EVerytime you go out ride switch. <BR> <BR>"then any tips on the HS 180?" <BR> <BR>IMO, try the TS 180, you land on your heels riding switch. That way you can work on both switch riding &amp; 180's.

09-09-2008 8:48 PM

Definitely do not neglect your switch riding. I sorely wish I could go back in time and tell my younger self to ride switch. As for what trick to try next, there's no reason at all that you can't work on both your backroll and your 180. If you want to try a backroll, go for it!

ak4life 09-10-2008 12:37 AM

Yeah, you should do what makes you happy. If following the progression tree makes you happy, then 180s. Practice riding switch (get up switch, if having trouble, go slower). Then practice surface 180s. On the HS 180, be sure to look at the shore (away from the boat) which helps commit to the switch tow edge and prevent you from sliding out on your heels. Then try them off one wake, then wake to wake, then add grabs. <BR> <BR>Some people don't have fun learning how to crawl before they walk. If you're one of those people, HS Backroll, will probably be the first invert you'll try since the only prerequisite is a W2W HS jump (well that and being comfortable upside down). <BR> <BR>Or like Park Mark says, work on both!

04gravitygames 09-10-2008 4:48 AM

i would try: <BR>w2w 180's heelside and toeside <BR>ride switch as much as you can <BR>throw in some grabs on the w2w's

fijidaniel 09-10-2008 9:07 AM

It's easy to learn switch riding and 180s by getting up switch and then surface 180 to regular (while the boat is going slow) <BR>Then work on surface 180s, then olie 180s, then inside - out 180s, then one wake 180s, then W2W 180s. <BR>I know that is what everyone always says, but thats what I did.

bmartin 09-10-2008 10:15 AM

TS180s are easier than HS180s and would start there. Start by taking them inside and out and then w2w, and yeah learn some switch riding like everyone else said. If you feel up to it, I wouldn't rule out BRs, just don't focus on that to the exclusion of everything else.

04gravitygames 09-10-2008 10:20 AM

Remember the easier you can w2w, the cleaner you can rise switch, the cleaner you will ride. You will not be sketchy when landing tricks to revert or blind. keep it clean and get the flow down 1st. it will help in the long run

wakemandan 09-10-2008 10:26 AM

The first 180 i was taking W2W was the HS Half-cab 180. I would cut out hard heelside, olie 180, and clear the wake Switch HS FS 180.

dansmith 09-10-2008 10:29 AM

Technically speaking, isn't a 'HS half-cab 180' a switch 3?

wakeslife 09-10-2008 11:36 AM

No, its a switch heelside frontside 180.

romes 09-10-2008 12:00 PM

technically is a CAB anything possible on a wakeboard?

dansmith 09-10-2008 12:55 PM

Roddy, according to this website (Wakeworld), a 'Half Cab' is an Air 180 performed from the switchstance. <BR> <BR>Therefore, a 'Half Cab 180' would be a 'Switch Air 180' + another 180 = switch 360.

jpminter 09-10-2008 1:04 PM

roddy - sucker <BR>jr - aye <BR>dan - haha

johnsvt 09-10-2008 1:39 PM

Dan step away from the computer before Umali Sr. hits you with a tree you smell like sap for a long time. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by johnsvt on September 10, 2008)

to_blind 09-10-2008 1:58 PM

yeah, you can't do cab tricks on a wakeboard. <BR>sorry, it just doesn't work. <BR>physics something-or-other...

to_blind 09-10-2008 2:02 PM

Cab: Short for “Caballerial”, a skateboard move invented by Steve Caballero, where you pop fakie (off your switch nose), and turn 360. Hence, a “half-cab” is a fakie popped 180. Cabs and half cabs are only legit if it is popped fakie (off your nose), thus, they are only possible in wakeskating if you are popping off a solid object with lock in fins on. Please note: a switch 180 is NOT a half cab, just like a switch 3 is NOT a cab.

dansmith 09-10-2008 2:09 PM

Then somebody had better tell the Admins here @ WW: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=27" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=27</a> <BR> <BR>I still contend that the other day, Mr. Minter above performed a Half Cab HS BS 540, although everyone else seems to think he did a Switch HS BS 3...

to_blind 09-10-2008 2:20 PM

SO, MR. MINTER popped off his nose? and switch at that? wow! maybe with a flex board and butter conditions it could happen...

helix_rider 09-10-2008 2:20 PM

I agree with Dan, half cab just means you did a heelside frontside 180 starting from the switch position, just like Roddy said earlier...isn't that what we all think...or did I learn incorrectly in the library that is Wakeworld?

to_blind 09-10-2008 2:34 PM

YEAH, YOU HAVE BEEN MISLEAD...the quote I put up there was from someone who is very well respected in the wake industry...lets call him A.Reed, no, too obvious, we'll call him Aaron R...he knows whats up, and if you actually think about it and watch the trick performed on a skateboard you will realize that Cab tricks cannot be performed on a wakeboard...just like you can't do a baller spin on a snowboard, its sport-specific.

norcalbordr 09-10-2008 2:43 PM

The only half cab I know if is a switch roll to revert. I've never heard of anything else being called a half cab.

johnsvt 09-10-2008 2:45 PM

Derek you don't know Minter...friggin tower holds that guy down and he(Mr. Minter) is really down to earth.

dansmith 09-10-2008 2:50 PM

WARNING!!! WARNING!!! <BR> <BR>EXPLANATION OF JOKE FOLLOWS <BR> <BR>Loren, <BR> <BR>I was poking fun at the incorrect usage of 'half-cab 180', since 'half-cab' already implies a frontside 180 degree rotation. Therefore, if you do the math (remember Basic Algebra?) and substitute 'switchstance 180' for the term 'half-cab', you are left with: <BR> <BR>switchstance 180 180 <BR> <BR>which, in my book equals a switchstance 360. <BR> <BR>Likewise, a backside half-cab 540 would read as such: <BR> <BR>backside 540 switchstance frontside 180 <BR> <BR>Combining like-terms, you have: <BR>backside switchstance 180 (clockwise) 540 (counterclockwise) <BR> <BR>Which gives us: <BR> <BR>backside switchstance 360

johnsvt 09-10-2008 2:53 PM

Dan you explanation has me confused.

balr54 09-10-2008 2:56 PM

Ummmm...? <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

romes 09-10-2008 2:57 PM

the wake community uses the word CAB to mean switch. <BR> <BR>if you take the technical definition from the skateworld then its impossible to complete any sort of CAB anything. but we've morphed the meaning to mean "SWITCH" <BR> <BR>problem solved

mbsteez 09-10-2008 2:59 PM

oh god i hate this can't do cab spins on a (blank)board. its happened on snowboard forums too. its just an easy way to describe a switch frontside spin... at least, to me. i know skaters say its off the nose but the definition has changed for other sports.

to_blind 09-10-2008 3:04 PM

doesn't matter if i know him or not, he can't do any cab tricks on a wakeboard, just like everyone else. <BR> <BR>you don't hear skaters callin kickflips as backrolls, so why do we need to mis-use there word...the only cab you might see on a wakeboard is off of an obstacle. <BR> <BR>problem solved

romes 09-10-2008 3:16 PM

got a text from Colt Cannon. Cab=Fakie FS 360. and you can't do a half of one.

to_blind 09-10-2008 3:19 PM

who is colt cannon? <BR>i like my source a little better... <BR>not to mention logic... <BR>oh ya, physics too! <BR>whatever, call it what you like.

to_blind 09-10-2008 3:21 PM

hhaah, <BR>circa's colt cannon...got ya now. <BR>he should know, did he mention "off the nose" by any chance?

jpminter 09-11-2008 5:43 AM

jesus derek, pass some of that my way. <BR> <BR>i'm with romes and mckim.

tonis 09-11-2008 6:45 AM

Can we change the title of this thread please. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/talker.gif" border=0>

jpminter 09-11-2008 6:47 AM

Change it to kickflip for derek.

to_blind 09-11-2008 7:26 AM

pass some of what your way? logic?

romes 09-11-2008 8:53 AM

no off the nose. just a reg fakie fs 3. it can't be taken to 5 or anything else. it's a SWITCH 3 in skate terms.

wakemikey 09-11-2008 9:01 AM

Who cares what you call it. Stop being annoying. Don't learn tricks out of turn. Learn grabs, 180s and halfcabs , and 360s before rolls.

dansmith 09-11-2008 9:31 AM

Well, somebody had better contact Dave Williams and update the following pages ASAP. We can't have people walking around spreading incorrect terms &amp; looking non-core... <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=26" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=26</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=27" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=27</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=112" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=112</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=78" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=78</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=57" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=57</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=61" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=61</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=63" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=63</a> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=46" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/Tourney/trickdesc.asp?TrickID=46</a>

rightside 09-11-2008 9:56 AM

"Who cares what you call it. Stop being annoying. Don't learn tricks out of turn. Learn grabs, 180s and halfcabs , and 360s before rolls. <BR>" <BR> <BR>That is retarded, if you want to learn in a linear fashion go to school. If you want to have fun do whatever you want on a wakeboard. <BR> <BR>I am also going to start calling tricks whatever I feel like just to piss you people off.

dansmith 09-11-2008 10:05 AM

What are you talking about? You don't even ride anymore. Go back to lurking that gentleman's club you "supposedly" belong to &amp; leave to wakeboarding terminology discussions to use core, down to earth riders...

rightside 09-11-2008 10:09 AM

From here on out on your boat a half cab will be called half bald smith.

johnsvt 09-11-2008 10:13 AM

Eastcoast is that a half-cab stalefish grab or didn't you take that to 180.

dansmith 09-11-2008 10:16 AM

I prefer to look at it as having half a full head of hair...

rightside 09-11-2008 10:17 AM

that was a dizzy chicken

johnsvt 09-11-2008 10:40 AM

dizzy chicken...that is a terrible name.

wakeboardlasvegas 09-11-2008 10:46 AM

Since this hasnt been brought up yet and things seem to be WAY off topic, but here goes. I think things should be learned a certain way and in a certain order. There are WAY TOO MANY people out there trying things that they shouldnt be trying EVER but are still doing them and getting hurt. By way of gradual progression you learn how to fall( YES, there is a way TO and NOT to) you learn body position as well as things will come easier later on. So many blown knees or concussions have resulted in Hucking tricks and hoping for the best, more times then not, the best doesnt happen and an injury of some sort is the result. <BR> Take this for what its worth, but some people need to realize that wakeboarding isnt for everyone. Oops, that was off topic too.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

rekyn1 09-11-2008 11:15 AM

i met mr reed one time. he said my name, i heard him say it. ironically, he won't return my messages requesting assistance to settle arguments on wakeworld. <BR> <BR>however, your lord and savior, Jesus Christ, is returning my calls today. he said that it works to say switch or cab in wakeboarding.

johnsvt 09-11-2008 11:29 AM

Coming from a guy with 4 posts I bet you can hardly ride a wakeboard.

jpminter 09-11-2008 11:32 AM

finally some logic... <BR> <BR>derek, i meant pass me some of whatever you are smoking

johnsvt 09-11-2008 11:36 AM

I figure once I get to 1500 post I am gonna try a whirly. <BR> <BR>You being able to do a backside 3 before your 100th post blows my mind Minter.

jpminter 09-11-2008 11:55 AM

it was actually a switch half cab backside 180 to blind.

jpminter 09-11-2008 11:56 AM

derek will explain it. it's science.

rightside 09-11-2008 1:58 PM

injury sminjury, thats what I am calling a big worm now. I can go wake to wake heelside AND toeside, think I have the credentials to try one?

jarrod 09-11-2008 2:04 PM

Per Shaun Murray...."Cab" is anythiing you start switch and finish regular. A Switch FS 360 would not be cab, becase you still land Switch HS. You could do a cab 5 however. <BR> <BR>This isn't skateboarding. I don't care what they call their tricks.

dansmith 09-11-2008 3:03 PM

Well, that seals it. CIE has spoken... <BR> <BR> <BR>On a side note, does anyone here think Jack should try a backroll?

johnsvt 09-11-2008 3:14 PM

Good enough for me.

westsiderippa 09-11-2008 3:32 PM

"Cab: Short for “Caballerial”, a skateboard move invented by Steve Caballero, where you pop fakie (off your switch nose), and turn 360. Hence, a “half-cab” is a fakie popped 180. Cabs and half cabs are only legit if it is popped fakie (off your nose), thus, they are only possible in wakeskating if you are popping off a solid object with lock in fins on. Please note: a switch 180 is NOT a half cab, just like a switch 3 is NOT a cab." correct!!!!!!!!!!!! <BR> <BR>next time i see cab in town i get a qoute from him. <BR> <BR>"This isn't skateboarding. I don't care what they call their tricks." true too, but hey lets give credit to the evolution of board sports as a whole. i think any sport on a board is worth respecting!!! <BR> <BR>"Cab" is anythiing you start switch and finish regular" that to me seems to be the correct definition in wake terms. im cool with it too!!!!!!!!! <BR> <BR>so did you land that tantrum to blind yet jack.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0> lol..

ord27 09-11-2008 3:45 PM

Jack <BR>I was/am in the same boat except that I am more than 3x your age. My point with that is that I tend to over think things in an effort to not get hurt! <BR> <BR>I have 3 out of the 4 wake to wake 180's down <BR>and have tried a few 360 with no success <BR> <BR>I have also tried a handful of backrolls but have yet to land one <BR>what I have learned.....for what it's worth... <BR> <BR>being comfy riding switch has made me a better rider.....more relaxed......this may not be a problem for you young whipper snappers, but it is for me <BR> <BR>180's have taught me timing <BR>......throw them late they say.....that was/is difficult for me <BR> <BR>riding by the rule of rope length only as long as you can go toe side wake to wake....this has challenged me to get better toe side.....which in turn has me riding more relaxed and on a longer rope..............better from what I hear for backrolls <BR> <BR>finally, throwing the backroll <BR>I film myself and then break things down per frame <BR>so by filming a few attempts... <BR>I have discovered that: <BR>1) I am usually back foot heavy <BR>2) I haven't been using the front hand as the primary hand....necessary for the backroll <BR>3) I come off edge just a bit at the wake <BR>4) my approach is to fast <BR> <BR>so....now I am working on a less aggressive approach and trying to get more pop <BR> <BR>I am looking for that "floating pop" <BR>sometimes I get it and sometimes I dont <BR> <BR>when I get it 9 out of 10 times, I will try the roll again <BR> <BR>I mention all of this to say....finally....that each step for me has helped <BR>skipping any of them wouldnt have helped me <BR> <BR>with that said, there are those that say land the 360 first <BR>I've tried. They hurt worse than the roll. <BR>call me a puss, but I will get back to those at a later date <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

wakeboardern1 09-11-2008 6:24 PM

Hey Paul, how's that knee treatin you? So you landed a switch bs 3 with that torn ACL? You're insane. And why couldn't you do that kind of thing while I was at Anna filming damnit. Instead you wait til I'm gone, and your knee is messed up... <BR> <BR>Oh, and we're getting a 05 SANTE on loan from one of the members to use, so you had better get your ass down here sometime.

jpminter 09-11-2008 6:33 PM

Haha, uhhhh, it's ride-able for now but another surgery is coming up in november. Just tell me when to make the trip bro. Weekends of the 20th and 27th may be tough as I have some stuff to attend. <BR> <BR>Let's not get off topic here though. LOL!!!

dansmith 09-12-2008 4:16 AM

Hey Nick, can't you read? He landed a Backside Heelside Half-cab 540. Sheesh....

mallenger 09-18-2008 12:46 PM

Ewing (johnsvt)---"Coming from a guy with 4 posts I bet you can hardly ride a wakeboard." <BR> <BR>You are correct Ewing, i've ridden with nyker (rekyn1) and he can hardly ride a wakeboard. He can't even stomp blind 180s.

ironj32 09-18-2008 1:02 PM

Jack - hate to see that your thread got overrun by a lot of other stuff, hopefully you're still reading along and are finding some advice . I would think that if you can clear the wake both TS and HS then you could start trying some 180's. I'd start out with some surface ones, then 1 wakers, then 2 wakers. I'd also work on grabs. I feel that every time you're in the air you should do some sort of grab (if you're not flippin or spinnin)...keep changing them up too. <BR> <BR>As for riding switch...I think one of the main things that will help you is keep that handle close to your lead hip. Other wise it's just alot of tooling around and getting comfortable with your edging, and eventually taking your jumps wake 2 wake. <BR> <BR>As for the Back Roll - If you feel comfortable enough with your HS jumps, then go ahead a try 'em. I recently discovered the following website: <a href="http://www.learnwake.com" target="_blank">www.learnwake.com</a> it has a lot of different tools that you can utilize...videos, help forums, step by step text instruction. it's like $10/month and i think is well worth it. <BR> <BR>Good Luck Mang!

jackeh 09-18-2008 4:33 PM

Thanks jay. i'm going riding soon i'll try all of the advice.

ak4life 09-18-2008 6:50 PM

--- continue thread hijack --- <BR>Interesting. I always thought "half-cab" was a weird way of saying "switch", but now I see it's much more controversial than that. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>I do recall J-Rod's quote from Shaun Murray in Detention about "cab" being anything you start switch and finish regular. Although I worship Murray, this definition of cab just seems to add unnecessary complexity, since switch (which I take to mean "opposite stance", as in "going with the other foot forward") is easier on the brain, since <i>switch [insert trick name]</i> works for any trick where you start with the other foot forward, whereas cab, in this definition, has a more limited use in only describing tricks where one starts switch and finishes regular. Why not just stick to "switch", then? <BR> <BR>As an aside, I do think it might be helpful to prepend the Wakeworld trick list descriptions with a definition of terms. <a href="http://www.intleagues.com/divisions/wakeboard" target="_blank">Int site</a> crapped itself when I tried following the links to the trick list (thanked me for taking some survey and then proceeded to load hotel info and YTD rider stats). <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR>--- /continue thread hijack --- <BR> <BR>Jack, good luck with the backroll! Let us know how it went..

dansmith 09-19-2008 3:46 AM

"i've ridden with nyker (rekyn1) and he can hardly ride a wakeboard. He can't even stomp blind 180s." <BR> <BR>True. But this is due more to the fact that he's a fat-ass and keeps breaking boards. If he'd just go on a diet, he'd probably land a few more tricks...

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