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-   -   W2W but no air (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517998)

min4moto 11-08-2007 6:31 AM

hi <BR> <BR>I need feedback about my w2w jumps <BR>What i am doing wrong ? <BR>Like a lot of people, i watch videos and tried everything I read on this board but I dont get much air on my w2w jumps <BR> <BR>What is the problem ? <BR>Expert riders advice required <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>) <BR> <BR>Thanks in advance <BR> <BR><a href="http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=C6zrEQOMZnM" target="_blank">http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=C6zrEQOMZnM</a> <BR><a href="http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sYBHIQbN5_Q" target="_blank">http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sYBHIQbN5_Q</a>

jpboarder 11-08-2007 11:21 AM

You need to make you stand tall at the wake, not so much push off the wake but you standing tall combined with the wake pushing up on your board will shoot you up there, and of course timing is everything. It looks like you kind of extend your legs and it does give you a little air but make sure you extend all the way, you will be surprised. Also, take a more relaxed cut into the wake, you dont need a lot of speed to pop just load on the line. So practice a more mellow edge into the wake and really work on the timing and extending your legs. Remember speed equals distance, load on the line and the extending of your legs gives you the air. Good luck.

spenchey 11-08-2007 4:55 PM

dude are you from spain? cause i swear that looks excatly like where i went on my cruise.

min4moto 11-08-2007 10:47 PM

@ jpboarder: ok thank you , i am gonna try this morning <BR>and do you think this is my main problem ? <BR>about the body position is this correct ? <BR> <BR> <BR>@spencer : no, it's in france

jpboarder 11-09-2007 11:16 AM

Yea, I think that is the main problem. Once you start extending those legs all the way you will notice a difference. As far as the body position goes it looks good, just make sure to take off with even weight on both feet. One more thing, dont suck your knees up so early, make sure you extend the legs, pop, and then bring up the knees. Just work on those things and you should notice a difference. If you have any problems, I can help.

livigno 11-09-2007 12:56 PM

On your approach: Take a rather mellow cut. Increase the line load as you cut in. Stay on edge all the way through the wake. Don't bend your knees as much, but stand more upright. Don't break at the waist, but keep your back straight and lean against the line as if you were sitting in a chair. Put a little more weight on your front foot. <BR> <BR>As you reach the wake: pop a little later. Push from the very top of the wake by extending your legs ALL THE WAY (no knee - bend left at all). Really overexaggerate the last step! Keep standing tall until you've reached the peak of your jump, then on your way down bend your knees slightly and anticipate the landing. Then really bend your knees as you touch the water again (spare those precious knees!!!). Do it like this and, as JP already said, you will be surprised ;) Your speed looks allright though. <BR> <BR>If you follow these instructions you will get plenty of air. Once you get consistant, try to shorten your cut and really concentrate on progressively loading the line. Once you've got that down, look over your LEAD shoulder AFTER taking off cleanly, on edge and fully extended. This will throw you into a nice and clean backroll!

romes 11-09-2007 1:18 PM

dont you mean your BACK shoulder oliver...

maggiewss 11-09-2007 1:38 PM

i am going to learn to get air wake to wake this weekend... does it feel weird standing so tall when you enter the wake? i feel like it would feel weird... its like you want to bend down to get more push just naturally u would think that i duno... i know you have to be tall though but it just sounds like it feels weird haha

min4moto 11-10-2007 7:32 AM

hi everybody <BR>I put all your advices in my head for my session <BR>and .... <BR>it was impossible to ride this morning <BR>too much wind and little waves <BR>aaaaargh <BR>i need to find a lake ... <BR> <BR>may be tomorrow <BR>thanks again for all your advices <BR>if i ride tomorrow, i will try to add a new video <BR>bye

min4moto 11-12-2007 4:43 AM

i have some new videos made last sundays <BR>i tried all the things you told <BR>i had the feeling it changed something but when i saw the videos, it seems to be the same as last week unfortunately <BR>i must exaggerate "the standing tall phase" <BR> <BR>thanks in advance for your feedbacks <BR> <BR><a href="http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=nBNKUSBlKgM" target="_blank">http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=nBNKUSBlKgM</a> <BR><a href="http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=F3uOH7lzM4A" target="_blank">http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=F3uOH7lzM4A</a>

livigno 11-16-2007 2:46 PM

@ jr (romes): I mean indeed LEAD SHOULDER. <BR> <BR>@ Nico: dude, that looks a lot better. Especially the first HS w2w in the second vid. Look at it again yourself and pause the video right when you're leaving the wake. You will recognize one thing as you compare it to your other attempts: You are standing taller. THIS is what gives you more air on this jump. <BR> <BR>Try the following next time: Do not squat down further as you approach the wake, but hold the position you assume when you start our cut -> it is the correct position already. <BR> <BR>Keep a little more weight on your front foot - just a tad. <BR> <BR>Still pop a little later -> remember: From the top of the wake. <BR> <BR>When popping, extend both your legs all the way. Do not let the wake push your knees up, but you want to push against the wake hard by standing super tall. <BR> <BR>Do not follow the curve of the wake with your body when riding up the wake, but cut through the wake -> the rocker of your board fits into the transition anyway. Any shifting of your weight to your back foot when riding up the wake will cost you height! <BR> <BR>All in all: your HS jumps look smooth, which is great. Just keep working on your technique, try to perfection your cut, body positioning, handle position (right at your lead hip!) and take off. <BR> <BR>Your TS w2w jumps need some work too. Keep your body upright, do not break at the waist! Keep the handle right at your lead hip while holding the majority of the pull with your back arm - this will help with your progressive edge. To increase line tension as you get closer to the wake keep your body upright and keep leaning towards the water - away from the boat. Hold this really tall, but twisted body position all the way through the wake (this may feel rally awkward at first, because your body is not used to it, but it will become feeling more and more natural by time). Keep looking at the wake when cutting in. Take off super late by standing ultra tall on your tippy toes with your your body stiff from head to toe. Anticipate your landing edge, which should strictly be your TS edge. Hold your tall, twisted body position while in the air and keep your weight over your TS edge. This will give you a strong, stable and pillowy soft landing. Your board should be level in the air and not go out in front of you very much. When doing the TS w2w correctly, you will get as much air as on your HS jumps. A strong basic TS w2w jump will push the door wide open for TS backrolls, which are a lot of fun. <BR> <BR>So keep honing your HS as well your TS. Do not forget to incorporate the switch versions in your program (one wake first!). It may feel awkward at first, but be patient and stay on it. It will pay off big time in the long run. You can trust me on that one. <BR> <BR>If all this sounds confusing, try to envision it in your mind the night before you go riding. Maybe print this text and bring it on the boat. Keep us updated on your progression! <BR> <BR>Hope this helps. <BR>Peace out.

min4moto 11-26-2007 8:10 AM

HI <BR>Thanks a lot for your feedbacks Oliver <BR>it's very helpful to me <BR>I have the feeling to have point the main problem thanks to you and I had a big big desire of riding <BR>unfortunately the weather isn't fine on the mediteranean sea in winter, (lot of wind) and the water starting to get colder and colder <BR> <BR>I hope it will possible to go riding this week <BR>I will keep you update from the progression <BR>I will work on "Still pop a little later -> remember: From the top of the wake" <BR> <BR>thanks again <BR> <BR>Nico

livigno 12-01-2007 4:03 AM

What's up Nico? <BR> <BR>Glad to hear that things are going well and that your motivation is high! Don't forget to also focus on standing really tall on your take offs. Really overexaggerate this. You will need it later on for inverts and spins, so try to get used to it on your w2w jumps. Pop late - tall with both legs. <BR> <BR>For trainig this you can try the following: Cut out only 8 feet. Edge very slightly, but strictly progressively and never leave your edge. Pop like you should. Try to get the most HEIGHT out of your jumps through a perfect technique. Take off on edge and land on edge! At first you might not be able to clear the wakes with a very light cut of just 8 feet. But as you progress, you will clear the wakes. The more height, the more distance! <BR> <BR>This will do the following: You will develop a clean "wake to wake - style". You will use very little energy (speed, line tension) to get a high and clean w2w - jump where you land perfectly on the downslope of the opposite wake. It may sound complicated, but it is not that hard, it just takes practice. Plus, it's fun! <BR> <BR>As soon as you are able to do this, you can gradually procede to a longer cut and a harder edge to get even more height. This will result in spectacular, stalled out, slow motion jumps far into the flats. The ability to do these consistantly is the best "insurance" for not getting hurt when you try your first backrolls etc.! they will come easy and naturally when you have a clean and solid basic w2w technique. <BR> <BR>Also important: do not resort to practicing only the same trick in one session. Before your session starts, or even better: the night before, think about what you want to try. Always incorporate heelside and toeside jumps in your runs. Practice riding switch in every run. For example do all your starts switch. Try switch one wake jumps. Learn small one wake 180s (there are 4 frontside 180s: HS, TS, HS halfcab, TS halfcab). They are really fun. For the small 180s, the same principles as for your w2s jumps apply. <BR> <BR>For the 180s, though, take even shorter cuts (just 3 - 4 feet - you want to take them only over one wake first). Cut in, pop late by standing ultra tall. Then, at the peak of your jump (NOT earlier)move the handle from your lead hip to your rear hip and slightly turn your head in the direction you want to rotate. Remember to ALWAYS take off on edge AND land on edge (for a HS 180 you will take off on your HS edge and land switch on your TS edge - that's why you have to practice riding switch first). <BR> <BR>One last thing: always be aware of where to keep the handle. You basically want to keep it low and "locked in" at your lead hip for your cut and your take off. Remember that the the force of the boat will pull from the point where you keep the handle and that it will lead the direction you're going - on the water and in the air. <BR> <BR>Well, words, words, words.... I hope they will help you in becoming a better rider and having as much fun as possible! <BR> <BR>Good luck, and keep that smooth style <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

wakenerd 04-28-2008 3:45 AM

Oliver, thanks for your tips. They are very useful indeed. <BR> <BR>I have a friend whose wake jumps are kinda floaty- the nose of the board goes up first and then levels out. When the board levels out, it seems there's a moment of a pause in the air. <BR> <BR>I heard that's a ollie pop. Can you teach me how to do it? <BR> <BR>Thank you in advance for your advice.

livigno 04-28-2008 5:00 AM

Well, this kind of pop is also very useful for spinning. To envision how an ollie works, I'd recommend the following: Get yourself a skateboardin video or watch one on YouTube. In every skate video you somebody ollie a big set of stairs, a fire hydrant or other large obstacles. Set your VHS or DVD-player in slow motion when watching the pros doing big ollies. You will recognize the following: they will bend there knees, smack down the tail of their boards hard, lift their front legs while pulling the outer side of their front foot towards the noses of their skateboards, then pull up their rear foot and then even pushing out their board in the direction they're travelling while in the air (= nose bone). You can apply the same technique to wakeskating and wakeboarding. The take off will be slightly different, but the movement while in the air is exactly the same. I'd recommend to do this in the flats: Edge out a couple feet, slightly flatten out, then ollie while still on edge. Practice this a lot (straight ollies, FS180 ollies, BS 180 ollies, switch ollies). You can ollie on your heelside and on your toeside. Try to blend the single steps of the ollie into one smooth motion. After mastering this, take your ollies to the wak and use it like a kicker in snowboarding or a jump ramp / bank in skating. Ollie off the top of the wake. But: do not establish this way of jumping as your regular w2w technique! The standard w2w technique I have described already earlier. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps, have fun!

wakenerd 05-02-2008 3:14 AM

Thanks again Oliver, I'LL try it tomorrow.

min4moto 08-05-2008 8:27 AM

Hi Oliver, Hi everyone <BR> <BR>I keep on working on height on heelside w2w jumps <BR>I think i have win some inches but it's not enough and i know i still need to work on my defaults <BR>Can you help to point out the little things that kill my pop <BR>thanks for your feedbacks <BR>nicolas <BR> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9GiAcN9jo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax9GiAcN9jo</a>

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