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-   Archive through October 28, 2007 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=517108)
-   -   Catalytic Converters, in boats, in 09? (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511410)

da_moose 10-15-2007 2:24 PM

Dose anybody Know the skiny on this? <BR>One of my boat dealing bro's told me this today.

sanddragon2004 10-15-2007 2:55 PM

alot of engine manufactures are putting them and phasing out anything with out one.

sanddragon2004 10-15-2007 2:55 PM

the EPA is mandating emmisions standards by next year.

roughrivermike 10-15-2007 3:08 PM

MC already has it on the 07's.

slipknot 10-15-2007 3:23 PM

Moose are you gonna put one on your boat?

cavlxenvy 10-15-2007 4:01 PM

Most of this was for California I thought. Anybody from Out of State have a new boat with a CAT?

mobv 10-15-2007 4:26 PM

CA is the only state requiring, some manfactures are going to add to all engines.

kevin_lsv23 10-15-2007 4:32 PM

Malibu started in 07 for all states.

otiswunguy 10-15-2007 4:43 PM

Da moose is loose! What next? Emission testing for tab renewal? I really don't see why it wouldn't happen.

deltaboy 10-15-2007 8:09 PM

Mike I was just mentioning that the other day when I noticed that PCM is cating up early as well. I seriously wouldnt put it past CA that in a few years we will going in for smog checks with our boats.

redsupralaunch 10-15-2007 8:43 PM

My 07 Supra has 130 hours on the Indmar CAT/ETX 340 hp. Nothing but great thing to say. I wont ever order a boat without. Better fuel economy and the smell is so much better.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/511569.jpg" alt="Upload">

sanddragon2004 10-16-2007 12:15 PM

i wonder if the no teak surfing rule will go away with the clean burning wakeboats of today.

da_moose 10-16-2007 2:38 PM

So it is true,and it was Cali.I was talking about.I looking to put one of those E-tek on ,there a 4 stoke

monkey 10-16-2007 3:00 PM

Moose, is that you I always see riding around on a bike in O'side, passing out ding repair flyers?

da_moose 10-16-2007 3:29 PM

that's me !!!!The Back pain went a way 4 or 5 weeks ago,after 22 years{drunk driver jump the center divider} in 6 months I'll be popin out boards like M&amp;M's

deltadave 10-16-2007 3:43 PM

California is requiring boats manufactured after 1/1/08 to have cats. I think it may go nationwide in 2010. Any boat manufactured prior to 1/1/08 will not be required to have them or have them retro-fit. Indmar started early on their engines with cats and I heard they had some problems.

redsupralaunch 10-16-2007 7:11 PM

DeltaDave Im gonna question your sources on that. I have not seen any documentation on this board of any problems.

ponte_06_x2 10-16-2007 7:28 PM

smog checks on boats are next. watch

nasty530 10-16-2007 7:41 PM

I would actually like to see them start smog checking boats. As long as they have a quick efficient way to test it. I am all about cleaner lakes.

stanfield 10-17-2007 6:43 AM

07 X1 has them here in TX. Like Chris, nothing but praise from me. I don't really hang around the back of the boat with the motor running nor do I surf so I don't know if it smells better, but the fuel economy has definitely improved greatly. <BR> <BR>Having said that, anyone with an 07 x1 with the MCX motor needs to go back in for a new engine hatch. Should be a MC recall and taken care of at no charge.

tyler97217 10-17-2007 8:53 AM

no probs with my 07 CAT at all...... i can attest it has less fumes and a little throatier sound, but I don't notice a huge change in fuel economy... maybe though....

jv210 10-17-2007 10:31 AM

I got an 07 indmar with the cats and have had no problems. I have over 100 hrs already. Definitely less fumes, and like diggs said, throatier sound. Don't have anything to compare on the fuel economy.

acurtis_ttu 10-17-2007 10:43 AM

definately less fumes, but I haevn't notice any major difference in fuel economy over my previous 04.

trentj6930 10-17-2007 11:32 AM

I just ordered a 2008 Mobius LSV with the 340 hp etx cat. It is the only one around my neck of the woods in Alberta. Reviews from the Supra/Moomba dealer has been fantastic so far.

wakejunky 10-18-2007 7:28 AM

Might be interesting to find out how the new boats with CATs sound and perform like without the CAT installed. Should be easy enough to remove and replace with straight pipe/tube. <BR> <BR>Can't imagine dragging my boat to some shop to get a smog check. Don't want some non-boat savvy person, who's been walking around oil soaked floors, jumping in and out of my boat just to do a smog check. <BR>Gotta love the good old EPA. <BR> <BR>Chris <BR>Get the Grip you Deserve <BR><a href="http://www.wakejunky.com" target="_blank">www.wakejunky.com</a>

redsupralaunch 10-18-2007 7:54 AM

Wakejunky - I put about 150 hours on my 06 Supra 21V with Indmar's 340 ETX. That engine pretty much had the aluminum water cooled exhaust manifold thats on my 07 but did not have the CAT and O2 sensor. Sounds the same to me. <BR> <BR>The idle and low range is smoother on the newer 07 but Im gonna guess its because of the hudge step up in the ECM with the 02 sensor. Something like they went from EFFI 4 to EFFI 5 which was described to me as leaping forward about 20 years in technology and is the reason why they got it done without any decrease in HP

da_moose 10-19-2007 2:47 PM

All eyes On Me,I can see that in the next 5 years. <BR>Let's go ride Monkey{WE have are TEST RIDER}

bocephus 10-19-2007 3:10 PM

Any of you folks have any engineering or automotive background?? Do you all know what Catalytic Converter does and why? <BR> <BR>It's nothing more than a band-aid for the gas motor that was put in to production in about 1975. With the advent of computers, closed loop fuel injection, etc... they are totally unnecessary and actually hurt the environment. They contain lots of "precious" metals that we have to mine to get, further destroying the environment, and cause even worse greenhouse gases than the actual pollution they were designed to control. <BR> <BR>The deal is that someone makes big bucks off of cats. Cats in almost all cases of current design promote a rich burning engine condition. With computer controlled fuel injection we could lean the piss out of our gas motors and get way better mileage, specially in our boats were heat isn't an issue, after all we are driving in our radiator.

redsupralaunch 10-19-2007 5:57 PM

Sorry Bocephus, I disagree. So NMMA, Indmar, Merc, and PCM all sat on their asses and did not just lean out the fuel injection and prove to EPA that it was not needed? In fact its the other way around. Indmar put it online before mandated because it was the right thing to do.

mobv 10-19-2007 6:16 PM

Indmar put it on some engines so they could get credits and not have to have it on all engines in 09. They have a reserve of credits in CA because of selling some engines in 06 and 07 with cats and will not have to install cats on all engines sold in 09. Merc, PCM, and others all have to have cats on every engine sold in CA next year.

greatdane 10-19-2007 6:20 PM

It will be nice to not have to worry so much about CO (carbon monoxide). It should convert most of the CO to CO2.

bigshow 10-19-2007 8:02 PM

Bocephus, Catalytic converters contain very little precious metals. If they did you couldn't afford the vehicle they would be installed in. The field of Catalytics is a very deep. The best catalysisís have huge amounts of surface area relative to their weight and volume. Also note that the precious metals in catalytic converters is recyclable. <BR> <BR>The chemical reactions they facilitate are very basic, high school stuff, 2CO +O2 => 2CO2. <BR> <BR>I recall that the compression rations in automotive engines was reduced to minimize nitrite emissions. The reduced compression ratio reduces engine efficiency, reduced Carnot cycle. <BR> <BR>Gasoline engines have been highly optimized, a near perfect machine. In the ideal case with no other losses the best efficiency you can expect is about 50%. A real world gas engine achieves about 35% efficiency. I seriously doubt that engineers are not paying attention to efficiencies, that huge in the automotive market. The marine market get huge lift form the automotive sector. <BR> <BR>Diesel engines donít produce nitrite compounds like gas engines do. So Diesels have higher compression ratios. Diesel engines can reach efficiency greater than 40%. Ounce per ounce thereís also more heat energy in diesel than gas. <BR> <BR>Engines with converters will be safer than other engines, fewer chances for CO poisoning. <BR> <BR>Inboard boats are all ready very expensive. If converters werenít necessary to meet a need, thatís EPA requirements, or in my case reduced CO for wakesurfing, they would not be offered. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Bigshow on October 19, 2007)

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