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-   Archive through August 27, 2006 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=364702)
-   -   Critique my Simple 3 Bag Ballast System Idea (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361329)

ferrarispider95 08-25-2006 10:40 AM

Looking for the utmost simplicity, while drilling one hole in the boat for a 3 bag system in a 205v. <BR> <BR>I don't mind switching the valves open and close on each bag to regulate the weight. I am going to add lead to the nose, and I am doing 2 250lb vdrive sacks and 1 400lb locker sack. <BR> <BR>Will this work? <BR> <BR>If I burp the air out the bags the after the <BR>first fill, will it remain air free? <BR> <BR>My main concern is the 2 "T"s. Should I go with a manifold instead, or what would provide most equal distribution. <BR> <BR>Will it drain effectively also? Also if a go with a scoop will it not drain at speed? Should I go with a flat thru hull. <BR> <BR> <BR>Any info will be very helpful, thanks <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361330.gif" alt="Upload">

denverd1 08-25-2006 11:59 AM

you have no vents, so just watch the bags closely. No need for the scoop, that pump will prime regardless. That way you can drain at speed. <BR> <BR>aside from it being very slow, it should work. <BR> <BR>a manifold would give you better distribution. any reason not to use one? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by denverd1 on August 25, 2006)

ferrarispider95 08-25-2006 12:08 PM

How long to fill up, total weight of ballast will be about 900 lbs? <BR> <BR>I dont mind watching bags. I also can do a manifold. <BR> <BR>We usually have quite a few riders, that is why I am not looking for a huge system. Also I can fill while my nephew takes his first set and does not need the additional weight right now.

ferrarispider95 08-25-2006 12:10 PM

I also thought about doing 6 aerator pumps, but don't want the hassle of running all the drain lines, and running on the power to the pumps, as well as putting three vent holes in the boat.

toyotafreak 08-25-2006 1:04 PM

Two aerators would smoke that Puppy and draw less current. Good luck trying to keep things simple. I never can, and end up doing nothing. Just can't mess with the Rules (haven't checked out Tsunami for this but they're probably awesome too.) One Rule would fill this in approximately 7 minutes. I always wanted vents, and also liked the idea of draining out the side so I can tell when it's done draining. <BR> <BR>Thing is, most of the DIY options are compromises. No super clear cut answer or everybody would be doing the same thing. <BR> <BR>As for me, I'd probably go two Rules in back and two in front, keeping the front and rear completely separate. Three minutes front sac, four minutes for the v-drives. Pretty hard to beat that. <BR> <BR>I like how you're willing to do a little more supervising to save some complexity. Just remember that the better you engineer the thing, the less complex it becomes and the less supervising you have to do. <BR> <BR>Check out the Calculators tab on my ballast spreadsheet found here: <a href="http://www.epicmarine.com/docs/Epic%20Ballast%20Calculator.xls" target="_blank">http://www.epicmarine.com/docs/Epic%20Ballast%20Calculator.xls</a> (Right-click and Save As). You need Excel to check it up.

superairdawg 08-25-2006 1:09 PM

No need to 'burp' the bags on the first fill, as that pump will suck excess air out of the bags on your first empty if you empty them far enough. <BR> <BR>If you have a 3-way split after the pump the rear bags will fill quicker. It's super easy to fabricate one using PVC. You'll have to be very careful in watching the bags, though, to avoid overfilling. <BR> <BR>It should drain fine, even with the scoop, but I agree with nacho and I'd probably opt for a flat pickup with a self-priming pump such as what you're using. <BR> <BR>And yes, there are definitely major advantages in running aerator pumps, but the design you've come up with is significantly less complex than what you'd have to put in place with aerators. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by superairdawg on August 25, 2006)

ccryder 08-25-2006 1:28 PM

Jason, <BR>I did a system similar to yours a while back when I had a Malibu VLS with the center MLS sack and pumps. I made a manifold with PVC ball valves to control flow and used the standard aerator pumps. I had my fill pump for the rear sacks run the flow backwards through the drain pump. The pumps can spin easily and do not create much back pressure, so the flow depends which pump you turn on. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361473.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361474.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361475.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361476.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361477.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>The first picture is the drain pump located under the V drive inline with the fill hoses which tee to each side. The fittings going into the sacks have an extension of hose with some copper pipe inside to weight them so they always hang down in the sacks for draining and don't suck air. The manifold shown was in the floor ski locker to direct the flow front/back. <BR> <BR>The system in general worked well after the first fill to bleed all the air. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps or gives some ideas. Good luck. <BR>Jim

ferrarispider95 08-25-2006 1:52 PM

Your right, it will take about 18.5 minutes to fill 900 lbs with the puppy. <BR> <BR>With 3 aerator pumps it theortically be around 3 minutes. <BR> <BR>Even though actual fill times will very greatly by the size of the thru hull fitting. <BR> <BR>I might reconsider and end up putting 3 holes in my boat.

denverd1 08-25-2006 2:25 PM

once you get the first one drilled right, its becomes a lot easier!

denverd1 08-25-2006 2:28 PM

you could also get a 'cross' instead of the manifold. pvc fitting that converts one line into three

biz 08-25-2006 2:42 PM

Here is a simple layout that is pretty close to what you are trying to do.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361527.jpg" alt="Upload">

jonfo 08-25-2006 3:40 PM

Jason, my suggestion is to go with 1" inside diameter hose throughout the entire system which will alow more volume. This means you will attach the hose over the jabsco pump with hose clamps, rather than using the threaded ends provided. I agree on the venting, if you forget once you will blow a sac, or worse it will damage your boat if the sac doesnt blow first - the jabsco wont stop until something blows.

jonfo 08-25-2006 3:46 PM

One more thing i just thought of... <BR> <BR>Put all the shut-off valves in one spot so you dont have to open and close 3 separate compartments every time you fill. You would think you could open all three valves and it would fill all three evenly, but in reality it will fill one quicker than the other and that one will keep getting larger even as the other two are filling. For this reason i have to close the valve on the first one that fills, then close the 2nd until the 3rd fills. When emptying you can leave all 3 open though,the jabsco will suck the water and air out of all 3.

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