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-   -   Backroll for chickens... (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360901)

santa 08-24-2006 10:10 AM

After trying countless times, I finally landed 3's. So I decided to move on to inverts and a friend recommended that I start with the tantrum. My heart says I should try backrolls, but this guy says that the falls for a failed backroll are a lot more painful since you catch the board's nose and hit the water really hard. Ever since he told me that, I've never had the balls to try the backroll. Is this true? Can anyone help me avoid the almighty nose plant?

ogopogo 08-24-2006 10:33 AM

Double up!!

08-24-2006 11:50 AM

3 concussions later i put on a helmet. i still took some nasty spills, but none that ended my riding for the day. all 3 of my concussions came from my nose hitting the top of the opposite side of the wake. when i took it into the flats i had no problem with the nose catching. i don't think concussions hurt that bad, but i really can't remember <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>it was worth getting 1000 concussions for the thrill i got after i landed my first one. go for it, and go for it hard. you won't be sorry.

eubanks01 08-24-2006 11:55 AM

IMO tantrum crashes are MUCH worse than backroll crashes. I wrecked my ankles countless times doing tantrums but have never taken a bad wreck in 6+ years of doing backrolls. Yeah, you might catch the nose of your board but your momentum is kinda going the other way. The roll crashes really aren't that bad.

garret_s 08-24-2006 2:57 PM

yup. I can comment on this. I had a great year with backrolls (first invert). Landed a couple. Then I came up short, held on too long, and dislocated a rib. I am still recovering after 3 weeks of sitting. <BR> <BR>GO FOR IT! <BR> <BR>(ps: Tantrums are a lot harder. You will most likely NOT hurt yourself on rolls, they are really not even bad when you crash. I just kinda came in all funky.)

college 08-24-2006 5:53 PM

Not to mention that if you go for something half assed and afraid of it, the crash will probably be much worse than if you just go for it. The backroll crashes aren't bad, just go for it.

marshk344 08-24-2006 6:04 PM

Santa man you can do it. After busting my balls/face the whole summer trying to get 3's consistent, i decided to try a backroll. though i havent landed one yet, the falls are so much less painful than 3's. just gather the balls to try it once and then you most likely wont be scared again. good luck man.

jmv 08-26-2006 10:30 AM

Just don't cut too far out and speed in. That's how I broke my arm trying a backroll.

sotwstd 08-27-2006 2:13 PM

I can attest to the backroll crashes, I am working on them right now, my problem is that I throw the roll to soon, but the crashes are much easier on the body than trying the 3s. When you get out of shape on a 3 it kicks your a$$ in a big way, the backroll crash can bruise you up a bit, but nothing like I experienced with the 3s. I am going out tomorrow and will be working on the tantrum, I will keep you posted on how that feels.

attila916 08-27-2006 5:51 PM

A couple of weeks ago I started going ts w2w so it was time to move on to inverts... In the last 7 days I have tried 9 back rolls and each have them stung a little, two in particular but none of them have been day ending wrecks. I need a more aggressive edge and more pop and I should get it here the next few times out... Go for it or go home to mommy! <BR> <BR>Derek, keep me posted.

attila916 08-27-2006 5:52 PM

OK, so how bout some tips from people landing them on a consistent basis... ???

santa 08-28-2006 7:53 AM

Quick update... <BR> <BR>I rounded up enough guts to try the move twice last week-end. Of course I didn't land it yet, as I could barely "know" what position I was in while in the air. Ppl in the boat said I rotated about 3/4 of the way on the second try. <BR> <BR>As you all said, the falls weren't painful at all. So I have no problem continuing to try and eventually I'll land it. <BR> <BR>Santa

livigno 08-28-2006 11:04 AM

Well, you can hurt yourself by any trick gone bad. I bruised my ribs really badly two days ago by trying a back roll. I overrotated and did one and a quarter rolls instead of just one clean rotation. This had never happened before. I landed at least 20 back rolls this season before. Some were clean, some were sketchy. The falls I have taken so far (except the last one) were not that bad. <BR>However, don't worry too much. I have good advice for you on this trick: <BR>do not cut out very far when trying a back roll. This trick is all about loading the line by edging in slowly and progressivly. Never let off your edge befor taking off. Never EVER do that. You have to force yourself to take off from the top of the wake. Do not leave early. Practice this by doing short approch w2w jumps using a progressive edge and a straight upwards pop from the top of the wake. When your able to do high and poppy short approach w2s jumps, then you're ready to try the back roll. <BR> <BR>Cut out about 12 feet. Now place the handle right at your lead hip and keep it locked in there! Flatten off and wait for the boat to pull you towards the wake. Set a progressive edge, cutting in slowly and accelerating all the way up the wake. Right at the trough cut just a little harder (away from the boat) than you would for a w2w jump. Pop from the very top of the wake by standing super tall. Really straighten your legs and thrust your hips forward. Then initiate the rotation by looking over your lead shoulder. do not wildly toss your head sideways, just look sideways after you lifted. The back roll will now just happen. If you keep overrotating it try to pop arder, more upwards and initiate the rotation even later. If you keep underrotating it, keep the handle even closer to your lead hip and cut harder as you come close to the wake to create more line tension. <BR> <BR>It is not really a hard trick, you just need to master the key factors: <BR>keeping the handle really close to your hip - cutting in progressively - standing tall at the top of the wake for your take off - initiating your rotation after your take off by looking over your lead shoulder. After finishing your reverse cartwheel rotation, bend your knees and ride away with a huge grin!

attila916 08-28-2006 7:09 PM

"Then initiate the rotation by looking over your lead shoulder" <BR> <BR>When I tried looking over my lead shoulder I ended up right side up with my back to the boat. Please try to be more specifiec. <BR> <BR>BTW, the rest of the advise seems sound, I just don't understand that last part. <BR> <BR>Thanks!

wakeslife 08-28-2006 7:22 PM

I think I'm having the same problem as Atilla. Sometimes I land switch, which I think would be a roll to revert, but it is unintentional. Would keeping the handle on my lead hip help straighten out my rotation?? <BR> <BR>I'd also like to hear more about looking over the lead shoulder. <BR> <BR>Thanks for all the help guys! I'm ready to really throw this down this weekend as I have nothing to lose; the last hurrah of summer <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

chad_chinners 08-29-2006 9:45 AM

Upnorth, You might be putting too much weight on your back foot at take off. I had that same problem last year and after a little trial and error figured out that's what i was doing wrong. Hope this helps.

big_xstar 08-29-2006 10:40 AM

My own input.. dont have to cut our far, get a nice good hard edge, dont just crank in with speed. Get alot of load on the line. As you approach the wake maintain your edge and line tension all the way up thru the wake, stand tall as you leave the wake and stay on edge then look over your lead shoulder which will begin your rotation. keep your hands on the handle all the way thru the trick. Continue to look over the same shoulder to spot your landing as you come around. the rest is gravy... <BR>Good luck...

attila916 09-01-2006 7:56 AM

Getting close now... almost full rotation and landing past the second wake. I hope to stick it soon!

gherk 09-05-2006 10:12 PM

Atilla, You ever ride during the week? Maybe I can get a pull from you in the evening and give you some pointers. Thanks again for the Marius.

boarder33 09-06-2006 8:09 AM

What made me land Backrolls consistently was to put my chin to my lead arm pit. Serious. If your head is over your shoulder you'll open your body position up and land opened up. Keep your head down and in your armpit and you'll be good. Don't get it confused with a mexican, that's putting your chin to your chest. Try it out, hope it works.

curtbernstein 11-16-2006 12:39 AM

ok.. I've landed a lot of backrolls in my day, for the past like three years Ive been able to do em. But Im pretty pist because even to this day, I only land like 50% of them... after doing the trick like that for a so long, I did end up getting beaten up pretty badly a few of those times.. so for the past few months i have just focused my attention to other completely different types of tricks like tantrum based tricks like whirlys to raley based tricks and ts roll tricks like scarecrows and elephants, and spins too... so the thing is... i would say that im pretty experienced, but my riding still lacks entire category of different inverts because i havent gained a consistend backroll... <BR> <BR>To not get into my problems yet, let me just let this be an example of how everyone should make it imparative to learn the root tricks like this one before stepping it up. I thing progression is the key and if youve ever seen a rider that just gets out there and tries random stuff and happens to land, they will have a hard time developing style to those kinds of complicated tricks... ok maybe im wrong, or maybe im getting off topic, but! the moral of the story is, DO NOT BE AFRAID OF THIS TRICK.... like i am.. <BR> <BR>anyways. the only thing that i can think of for reasons that i have an inconsistent backroll is the way i try to spin when i leave the wake... ive described it to some people and they have said that i am doing a mexi back roll or mexi roll, which ive never heard of. When i do it, i spin perfectly in line with the direction i am going.. its like im holding a perfect cartwheel and not drifting a little bit out of it like i think i should be doing... I don't understand this trick very well, and i dont know how to drift back without just simply throwing my spin that way.. someone please help me.

pittsy 11-16-2006 9:56 AM

when i was learning backrolls i never caught the nose..actually my crashes were never that bad..

chad_chinners 11-16-2006 10:04 AM

When i was learning backrolls I crashed like 23958 times. The worst Injury i got was a bruise on my thigh and cheek. I've dislocated my shoulder twice on a tantrum, but that was when i was trying to ride out of it when i should of taken the fall.

duffy 11-17-2006 6:04 AM

You have to have confidence first of all and know how to execute the trick. Then get ready because your going to do it. Cut out like a normal wake jump. Take a nice progressive edge into the wake, as you rise up remember to stand tall. as you rise up the wake lean your head to your back shoulder and just let your hips go out from under you. It will probably take a few tries but you will get it. Remember all or nothing. Hesitation will get you hurt.

awake_all_day 11-27-2006 9:15 AM

You must look over your lead shoulder to land a backroll consistently. By doing so you are putting your eyes in a position to spot your landing early. It is also important to edge through the wake standing tall at the top of the wake for maximum pop. After learning backrolls on a trampoline, it only took a me a couple tries to land one on the water. Although backrolls are a little different on the trampoline than they are on the water it still helps you gain air awareness, helps you to understand the dynamics of the trick, and helps you learn to spot your landings. Save yourself some time and gas and learn it on the trampoline. Believe me you will be surprised how easy this trick is.

mcwakerider 12-25-2006 9:10 PM

my buddy who cant even clear the wake almost stuck one.

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