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-   Archive through October 30, 2005 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=264506)
-   -   INT League US Championships (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258870)

garyw 10-08-2005 8:51 AM

The running order is posted on their web site <a href="http://www.intleague.com" target="_blank">www.intleague.com</a> See you there

dr_inc 10-08-2005 11:27 AM

cant wait for tuesday !!!!!!

roadking 10-08-2005 10:53 PM

Andrew Adkison and Zane Schwenk will be at the INT Nationals the whole time. Look for them, they will be in the MasterCraft and CWB booths.

garyw 10-09-2005 9:06 AM

Good luck to everyone competing

whitie 10-09-2005 12:15 PM

whats the weather like there?

garyw 10-09-2005 12:23 PM

Greg, I checked a couple of days ago, and it was in the mid 90's. Not to worry it will be nice

jbjboc 10-09-2005 6:36 PM

we're setting up the site- let's just say it'll be impressive! Weather is sunny and warm <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

kneeboarddad 10-14-2005 5:51 AM

Does anyone have some results? Especially outlaw, advance and expert wakeboarding. Who are the leaders?

phil06140 10-14-2005 6:31 AM

john aulick(texas)is gona kick ass in the advanced division!

bigjackamo 10-14-2005 1:08 PM

Just got a quick update on the Outlaw Division and Mitchell Hayes from Kansas is leading as of the first round. <BR> <BR>Go Mitchell

ldr 10-14-2005 1:49 PM

How do you know? They don't post the scores along with the names or divisions. Each competitor is given the key to look up their score and their score alone. I do know that Kevin Has the second highest score in the entire comp to date and that was with a fall on his crow mobe so he only got in 9 tricks. If he takes his run clean in the finals he should walk away with the win. Either way, I must say that the INT US Championships is a great event and it seems that all the manufacturers enjoy the time to meet and greet with the grass roots/family part of the sport. <BR>Wish I was there. I am however getting updates from my Dad and Brother on a regular basis.

jarrod 10-14-2005 1:55 PM

Go Kevin!! <BR> <BR>

wakeq1 10-14-2005 2:48 PM

What is with not posting the scores with the names. They did that last year and EVERYONE hated it. "It is not about winning but doing your best, everyone is a champion." Hey- if I spend a couple of grand to go out and compete against the best INT riders at nationals I want to know where I stand. We all have some tricks we can land but are not as solid as others. I want to know where I stand and what I have to do to win. Winning is not everything but those who invest the time and money to go to one of these are competing to win or get on the podium. If I am 800 pts behind then I know what I need. If I am 1200 mthen it is another story. Ideally you go out the first day and do the 12 or 10 tricks you know you can hit. Then the next round go all out and try to improve on that score. Unfortunately most of us will have a fall or run out of course the first day so we don't have that ideal situation. It is lame.

ldr 10-14-2005 3:01 PM

I can understand your pain. Luckily for the Outlaws they can basically tell where they stand because they should have the highest scores, however since outlaws are only allowed 10 tricks and other divisions are allowed 12 there could be a kid in the expert division with a higher score. I think it would definitely be harder if you were in one of the middle categories like wakeboard advanced to find out where you stand. I agree they should just post the scores. As much as it is about fun, there is also strategy involved. You have to know the rules and know how to make them work for you if you want to be successful in comps.

wakedad33 10-14-2005 8:23 PM

It is so lame not to post name/score. I asked about it a couple of month ago and all I got back was "that's the way it is"

jbjboc 10-14-2005 9:51 PM

I believe the idea is to keep all the competitors interested in the competition until the last day. Since the format is the best score from two rounds, what difference would it make if you knew who was leading after round one? Anyone can go out in round two and totally change the outcome- <i> the way it is. <BR> I've been to many comps,Pro and Amateur and I can honestly say NO-ONE throws an event anywhere near the level of an INT Championhip- IF you aren't involved, then get your info from someone who is, or join us in 2006. It's easy to stand back and not understand why we do what we do, but if you're involved that's the way to make changes.</i>

kneeboarddad 10-15-2005 5:36 AM

Jeff- We love the INT. We have gone to US Championships 4 times and do what we can for it. I have had all four kids participate and we have 4 titles and several podium finishes. I agree it is better than many of the pro tour events. <BR> <BR>But I certainly did not like the idea of not posting names with scores and I am trying to understand the reasoning. No one ever really explained it satisfactorily. It seems like we were trying to make it less competitive and not hurt anyone's feelings. If you have some good reasons for why they do it please let us know.

wakedad33 10-15-2005 5:48 AM

Jeff, I agree the INT provides a great opportunity for younger riders to experance tourament competition in a friendly enviroment. And yes I have been involved in the INT for the past 6 years (judging &amp; driving) and my son has riden in the US Championships for the last 4 years, he did not go this year because he rode in the Pan American championships and did not want to miss that much school. Where the INT falls short is in the upper divisions, primarly Outlaw. <BR>The scoring system forces riders to to be conservative in there runs, knowing 1 fall will take you take you out of the running. Northwest Sessions, NorCal WWA, both use a version of the Pro tour format that does not penalize a rider for a fall. What you get is riders pushing their limits and trying harder tricks, better for the riders &amp; spectators. I continue to support the INT and recommend it to people just starting out in comps. but the scoring system need to be reviewed. As far as no one puting on an event like the USC, The Pro Wakeboard Tour runs a pretty good little comp.

anthemwake 10-15-2005 11:17 AM

The INT is a glorified water ski tour. I have only ridden in a few events, but that was enough to realize that they had no idea what was going on, at least not the organizers here in NC. The last one I rode in, I had to write down the tricks I planned to do and then add up their freaking point value! <BR> <BR>The worst part about the INT is that there are a lot of guys that make it out to be some kind of pro tour and it's so obviously not. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of talented riders around here and in other areas that ride the INT religiously, but come on. The INT is a breeding ground for riders that are pretty good on their local lake but would never cut it elsewhere. They want to win contests and have people think they are the greatest rider ever and be a big fish in a small pond, and everyone that attends INT contests eat it all up. <BR> <BR>The events are at their core a good opportunity for young kids and their families to hang out and meet other riders (and skiers and kneeboarders and etc...) But there are some people out there who take it all way too seriously and turn it into something else entirely. Around here people bitch and moan about scores and judging and for what? That little wooden plaque they hand out at the end of the day? No thanks. <BR> <BR>If you're out there to have fun and ride with your friends and family and meet some new people, the INT is great. But if you are going to complain about the scores and how the contest is run and whether or not you got screwed because the judges like little Ricky better, then you need to man up and ride on the pro tour or nationals. <BR> <BR>Sorry about all the typing, I'm going to go lie down...

diddy666 10-15-2005 11:19 AM

Hey Matt, <BR>What are the 9 tricks that Kevin landed?

kneeboarddad 10-15-2005 12:47 PM

Anthemwake. I would have to disagree with your assessment. I have been to NC INT and for the most part they have been run well. The Richardson's are not glorified skiers. As far as big fish in little pond there have been some very good riders compete there. Adam Fields, Austin Hair, Alex Hammerick and several others. <BR> <BR>No one makes it out as a pro tour since it is an amateur event with fun and family as its core. If the only tournaments should be pro then very few people including yourself would have an opportunity to compete. It is a grassroots local event with a national competition. I challenge anyone to ride against the the top 10 in outlaw or expert at nationals. Those guys throw down a very good run. While it is not perfect and there are some things everyone would like to see changed it is the best amateur event going and it is the reason the industry supports it so strongly. <BR> <BR>Thanks to all the coordinators and organizers and volunteers who help make INT happen and all the other amateur events. The hours and money you put in to put on events is appreciated. Not many people knows what it takes to make one work.

ldr 10-15-2005 1:03 PM

Ok I just got the call from good ol dad and it turns out Kevin fell on the Crow Mobe again but he left himself enough room to get up and stick it right before the last bouy. Dad put Kevin on the phone and Kevin feels pretty confident that he won. We will wait and see on the official scores which should be up in an hour and a half. I'll Keep everyone posted.

wakedad33 10-15-2005 1:25 PM

David, <BR>I agree with you and if you read my comments I still support INT. But things need to change in order to progress. INT is down about 10 states from when we first competed in the USC. I think scoring needs to be reviewed. Example: Ask Austin what is harder a Half Cab Roll or a Tootsie Roll both 1350 points, Crow Mobe 1850 or Dumb-Dumb 1750. I think you know the answer. The tour changed their scoring format in the mid 90's I think we all agree it was for the best.

ldr 10-15-2005 2:57 PM

It's Official Kevin Bird won the INT U.S. Championships In bakersfield. I believe a kid from Oregon ended up coming in second. Way to go Bro! <BR>

wakedad33 10-15-2005 3:20 PM

Congrats to Kevin, my son took a session with him, Matt Medvid &amp; Mike Cardosa last year at the USC behind someones Sanger on the off day for Outlaws. Any word on how Matt Medvid finished.

anthemwake 10-15-2005 7:55 PM

David, I guess I didn't make it clear enough that there are a lot of talent on the INT; there are and every one of the guys you mentioned are killer riders. Usually, it's not the really good riders that are moaning and groaning. Most of the time, they know how things go and they realize that the events are for fun. I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about the guys that take it all too seriously (and I'm sure you know a few dudes like that). You can be the best rider in the world, but in the end, it's still just wakeboarding and it's just supposed to be fun, which is what events like INT are idealisticaly all about. That's why they can get away with stupid things like assigned point values, etc... A ton of people still have a blast and the day is a success by most accounts. It's not a big deal when a contest isn't that progressive or rider-oriented if everyone is having fun. <BR> <BR>I have to disagree with you about one thing, though. I do realize what it takes to make a contest happen and like you said, the industry does provide INT with a ton of support. That's why I feel they should be so much better. The contests I have been to were two days and there were tons of riders that all knew each other and it could have been really cool. But when it was all said and done, all anyone had to show for their weekend were maybe a few plaques. The entry fees were outragous and I just feel like the contests we put on down here in Wilmington offer a lot more to the riders as far as prizes and giveaways and still have that laid back atmosphere... <BR> <BR>Sorry if I offended you, it really wasn't my intent. I'm not much of an internet guy and I forget it's hard to read people through a computer screen. By the way, I'm stoked that Austin is in Australia. How did he do? It seems like NC had a good showing, with Austin Langston winning Mens 2...

kneeboarddad 10-16-2005 6:33 AM

Anthemawake= No problem. I am not usually posting on the inter either but I have been busy this week. I agree with you, it could be better and the point value scoring has its drawbacks. Especially at the higher levels. It focuses on getting 10 tricks in and plays down style and composition. I have watched good INT riders struggle in subjective scoring contest and not know why. They will rush to get in 10 tricks that have high INT point value and then bomb on their scores. They had no style or amplitude and the guys who beat them through less tricks and fewer technical tricks. It took Austin a year to stop approaching it like a slalom course and ripping through his trick list. <BR> <BR>With that said, using a subjective point system at INT local events would have some major drawbacks. I have been on the Pro Tour this season who has the top judges for the sport. These guys go through training and know wakeboarding. There is controveray and questions at each event. You start doing it at the local level and it would be a nightmare. We have all been to a local tournament where they throw 3 or 4 guys in the boat to judge. No one has any idea what the judges are looking for and most have never had any training. And suprise, their buddy takes first place and the new wakeboard or the $250 home. If you have been to the tournaments you know how hard it is to get people judge at a lot of them. The INT point system allows a lot more people to judge. It gives you consistancy from one state to the next and one tournament to the next. I <BR> <BR>The cost thing I don't know what to think. It is very expensive. Especially for a young guy or girl who has to pay their ownn way. If they want to do one event to see what it is like they have to come up with a $45 entry fee and 20 to 30 more to enter. If you had to travel throw in another 100. Then go out and fall you first two tricks and you just spent $50 per wake jump. And if you are a family you can drop $500 for a weekend. But I do know that thse locaL guys are not making any money from it. Plus they have to pay their own way to CA for US Championships so they are putting a lot of time and money so people have a venue to compete. Try finding comps, they aren't out there. Ambush basically dropped theirs this year after they ran all those events in 2004. Some areas (very few) have some good amateur tournament tours. The Valdez's do one that is affordable and well done I hear. But would there be one if it weren't for the Valdez family? <BR> <BR>I hesitate to criticize anyone who is working in this industry who are promoting the sport. I love wakeboarding (as well as kneeboarding, slalom and show ski since I have members in my family that do at least one). There are three entities that make up the sport, INT, WWA and USAWakeboard of USAWaterski. With out these three there is no competition. I have always said and still emphatically believe that until the three come together to work with a common vision wakeboarding competitions will suffer.

phil06140 10-16-2005 7:53 AM

i talked to john last night and he won advanced!

boarditup 10-17-2005 8:25 AM

<a href="http://www.intleageue.com" target="_blank">www.intleageue.com</a>, USC tab, results in the blue bar. <BR> <BR>I am a state coordinator in MI. Even with the "outrageous fees" I lost about $1,000 this year. Care to help me out? <BR> <BR>As for judging - find me high-end, consistent volunteers that will judge subjectively; objectively. The INT system works, and works very well. Tournament riding is a pressure cooker and has its own cadence. You adapt or you don't. With the INT you have an obvious standard and you have definate tricks to target to get there. One of the goals is to get riders to develop further. Having the progerssive trick list does that. <BR> <BR>Not everyone will agree with the INT system. You cannot please everyone. However, most riders progressing in the sport will benefit from the INT progressive system just from a trick development perspective. <BR> <BR>From a competition perspective, nobody else has as much consistency from a national perspective than the INT. That, in itself, validates the scoring system and gives each rider a fair shot at the podium. Is it perfect, no. But is it good, yes. It rewards those with a tight, flowing run with hard tricks and great style. Nothing wrong with that.

wake4fun 10-17-2005 9:43 AM

Congratulations to all the INT competitors as well as to the people who put these events on throughout the country. The INT league is a great place to make friends, enjoy your family and have some good clean fun. It is when people take it beyond that is where the problems arise. <BR>My family has competed in many different events over the years, from INT to the local shop/club tourneys. We never thought of it as anything other than a fun place to hangout, meet others with a love for the sport and share our love for the sport as well. All events have their good and bad points. I have seen bad scoring, drinking or drunks in the pick up boats, little league parents battle it out on the shore and adults act like complete idiots because at 30 years old they think they are going pro and know it all. <BR>What many don't understand is that not that many turn pro. I am not sure it is something you would want your kids to do anyway. I have been around pro riders that think life is a party and it is cool to be high or drunk. I have seen good kids go down that road because of peer presure. <BR>Then if you do become good enough to ride the pro events you have to deal with the judges bias there just like the amatuers do. Do you party? Is it with the right people? Are you a girl and what are you willing to do to get a better score next time? <BR>So, my point is, go to events because you want to have fun and meet some new friends and spend time with your family not for what you might win or where you might go in the sport. <BR>My family brought up two kids in the sport who now work in the industry at fun jobs they enjoy. We were on the water all the time and I always knew where they were...either in that 20 foot space or 65 feet behind it. <BR>To those who support the sport keep it up for the little guy. The kids that come to events and realize there is more to the wake than heelside, to the 65 year old grandpa that just got all 6 novice buoys on the slalom course and the 5 year old kneeeboarder that can just hang on for dear life down the lake. It is a ton of fun if kept in the right respective. <BR>

michael_riffle 10-17-2005 11:39 AM

Nicely said Christy. <BR> <BR>Kansas INT <BR>Midwest District Coordinator

kneeboarddad 10-17-2005 3:23 PM

I heard INT had another great tournament. The excitement and pagentry is one of the best in watersports. It is the first one we have missed in 5 years. Should be back next year to help SC reclaim their title. By the way- what state won?

roadking 10-17-2005 8:11 PM

Well, I feel compelled to add my part. I have been involved on the Pro Tour, WWA Worlds, Nationals and the list goes on. All I have to say is the Pro Tour as far as talent is way ahead of the INT as it should be. But as far as the way World Sports and Marketing (Pro Tour) puts on a contest, they would benefit by watching what the INT does with thier US Championships. INT is so much more organized with far less controversy. Heck, the Pro Tour has not played the Nationl Athem at an event in years, what other pro sport does not do this. You want a "thats the way it is attitude", try the pro tour, just ask David Hair and how his son was judges in Ft Worth. <BR> <BR> <BR>All Major Industry people are at the INT, ask any of them what they think. They think the Pro Tour sucks, but there is not other venue. More of them are putting there money into the INT because they are the folks that actually buy product, and dont ask or expect it for free. You want to know of some pros and Jr Men that got thier start in the INT, well here it is. Andrew Adkison, Gerry Nunn, Tino Santori, Emily Copeland, Meghan Major, Robby Carter, Joey Arcisz, Bryan Hutton, Austin Hair and I am sure there are many more. <BR> <BR>Trust me there is NO perfect system and never will be, but my hat is off to the INT, they are close. Outlaw is the only devision that needs improvement. You want those guys to throw down, try this. Three falls instead of 2, increase style points, unlimited tricks, as much as the course will allow. <BR> <BR>There you have my 2 cents. The INT is AWESOME, don't critize it until you attend. Especially the US Championships!!! <BR>

ndh2o 10-18-2005 7:24 AM

David Hair, <BR>NC won this year. We missed seeing Austin ride during the year, but the rest of the STR represented well as always.

doobe 10-18-2005 5:57 PM

It was an awesome event. In my opinion the best ever. We had a great time meeting new friends and running into and hanging out with old friends. <BR> <BR>I do wish however the proprietors would listen a little to what folks are saying. Then just taking the attitude talked about above. There are some changes that could be made to improve the scoring in upper divisions . <BR> <BR>As for the scoring I saw more sand bagging then ever before. The scoring secrets and numbering systems do not help. <BR> <BR>Last but not least: <BR>Bring back the final round}}

wakedad33 10-18-2005 6:46 PM

Kevin, Nice to see someone support the other side of this debate, If you read my above comments no one is putting down the INT, as I have said in my other posts I support the INT for what it has done in rider development. Scoreing is an area that needs to be revisted in the upper divisions. Example: I saw a rider this year in the outlaw division fall on his first trick, got up and finished his first pass but only got 3 tricks in, (all good tricks) 2nd pass was 3 Mobes and back to back 540's. This rider got 3rd. The 1st place rider got in all 10 tricks, all stock inverts &amp; a 360. Who had the best run that day, the guy that had 10 tricks I guess, who did the spectators cheer the most for, the kid who got 3rd. Fix the scoreing and you might keep more Outlaws involved. The powers to be need to step up and address this.

tommyc 10-18-2005 10:01 PM

PLUG - Kevin Bird is one of the coaches at the DeltaWakeboardCamp.com. He teaches as well as he rides. <BR> <BR>Also, INT needs to change their judging. It leads to sandbagging in the lower classes.

bbr 10-19-2005 7:23 AM

Hey I heard that the Delta Wakeboard Camp is gonna be the place to be next year. I look forward to checking it out.

wetirish 10-19-2005 9:12 AM

Congratulations to Nate Miller 2nd place Outlaw Oregon division winner!!! And to the rest of the INT winners! Keep up the great work INT. <BR>THANKS

boarditup 10-20-2005 6:11 AM

Properly done, the INT State Coordinators should eliminate sandbagging by agressively bumping riders into upper divisions. I have done this a few times to howls of protest, only to be thanked later. This forces the rider to develop. It does take a practiced eye to determine who is riding at what level. The difficulty we have sometimes is that the INT State Coordinators may come from a 3-event skiing background and may not have the familarity with wakeboarding to enforce this as consistently as those of us with a wakeboarding background. We are working on it and getting better each year. <BR> <BR>INT has annual meetings to work on scoring, judging, and other issues for each discipline. You will see INT evolve each year. Don't expect to see a fully subjective system, though. I think you will see some of the upper level judging concerns addressed, but perhaps not in the exact way you want.

garyw 10-20-2005 2:47 PM

I have read a lot of good comments and some not so good. "Don't come to me with a problem and no solution, that makes you part of the problem. Quit being part of the problem and be part of the solution" If you have suggestions for changes that you would like to see, get a hold of your state coordinator. If you have never been involved in the INT, try it, you may like it. Next season will be our 5th season. For those of you that do not understand the reason for masters or veterans, I'm 62, and I don't want to have to go up against Jeff Bridges next year. For everyone that competed there, congratulations

michael_riffle 10-20-2005 8:31 PM

We try to give everyone the opportunity to be competitive and are always looking for ways to better our program. We at the INT are of the same consensus that we do not like to see sanbaggers or a person beat out another one, just because they got more tricks in. Every year the riding has progressed upward and has forced us to make changes along the way. We are currently working on some changes for the next season and are constitently in communications with each other to try to make the program better. Thanks again for all the suggestions and comments we will assure you that we will do our best to evolve with the demands of our sport. <BR> <BR>Mike Riffle <BR>Kansas INT <BR>Midwest District Coordinator

hoosairboy 10-21-2005 5:36 AM

If you want to make it better here's an idea. Get the heck out of Bakersfield. Three years is enough. You have to plan a vacation around this since it goes Tuesday thru Sunday. The venus is fine (is the wakeboard lake deeper now?) but it has nothing to offer to do. How many time can you visit the Redwoods. Plus 3/4 of the INT riders are from the East Coast. Or use to be. I was there two years ago watching a relative and the southeast had most all of the riders. <BR> <BR>Or figure out a way to shorten the thing. Kids missing school and parents missing work for a week is a big deal. To get to Bakersfield from Indiana take most of Tuesday so you might as well take off Monday too and make it a week. Put the thing close to a city or a beach or somewhere that allows people to do more than just wakeboard and hang out at the pool. I don't mean to sound like I am ragging because the INT has done more for grassroot watersports than all other entities combined. But I can promise you I have herard everyone of my INT friends say they will not go back to Bakersfield. <BR>

boarditup 10-21-2005 6:59 AM

We are looking at other venues. If you know of some, please let us know. We need the layout as in Bakersfield - two lakes side-by-side so one announcing tower goes between both. Hopefully, not in a hurricane area - I am sure you know why. <BR>California has weather advantages that other areas don't have. <BR> <BR>"Shorten the thing." The length of the tournament is a function of the number of pulls and the number of entrants it takes to make it break even financially. It is already long days for the riders and the volunteer staff - should we go even longer and 3-days? Perhaps restrict the number of entrants for a two-day event? Maybe go the other way and open it up further and just make it the week since many make it a full week vaction anyway. <BR> <BR>Keep up the suggestions. <BR> <BR>Karl DeLooff <BR>Michigan Coordinator

jbjboc 10-21-2005 7:22 AM

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR>AS so eloquently stated by others, INT is always trying to progress and offer up what the riders want. Bottom line- get involved with your local INT and lend a helping hand. We offer the best grassroots events around! <BR>Jeff Bridges <BR>So Cal INT Coordinator

kneeboarddad 10-21-2005 7:59 AM

I am sad to here "hurricane area" since that knocks out the Southeast, South and Texas which is where a large number of the riders are from. I know how hard it is to find a venue for these but we have eliminated probably half of the possible sites. If I may add my two cents and I am not piling on. I am number one INT fan. I have always found it difficult to prepare for US Championships in October. Kids have been back in school for a couple of months, they are playing soccer or football or a host of other fall activities. The whether is cooling considerablly and the days are short. All this makes staying in riding shape nearly impossible for most kids. They are peaking in August and early September but the time US Championships roll around they are not riding nearly as much or as well. An August or earlty September would be the best. <BR> <BR>Just a thought. Since INT is really about family, fun and friends what about other alternatives than US Championships. What if you had an East Coat tournament and West Coast. You would reduce travel and maybe could do it in three days of Friday, Sat and Sun. Just throwing out a thought. I like this post though. It gives people an opportunity to discuss ideas. I don't see a lot of negative comments either. It is a forum for people to debate without having to travel to a national meeting. While submitting ideas to your coordinator is important I feel it is healthy to have an open debate.

roadking 10-21-2005 8:16 AM

Dallas, Texas is a cantral location, not in a hurricane area, temps are still nice mid-80's. Some fall showers but they are in then out. I am against a contest on the east and west coast for many reasons. It will dilute the event, limit sponsor participation, its the one time a year old and new friendships can be renewed. Needs to stay as one event. I do agree it needs to be earlier in the year, like mid september. I think Dallas would be a great place to look. East coast participation is down.

wakedad33 10-21-2005 4:11 PM

David Hair, I agree with your last post, school activites shorter days (not to mention missing a week of school is hard on kids) It is a little tougher on competors in cold weather states to train in October, Practicing Outlaw tricks in a dry suit can be difficult. Also I miss the Saturday finals for the top 4 in each division. It made Saturday more exciting to watch the top 4 guys/girls go head to head. Not putting anyone down just offering ideas &amp; opinions.

kstateskier 10-21-2005 10:32 PM

Does Dallas have the proper two lake site needed? I haven't ever been to a two lake site in Dallas. Someplace like the Austin Aquaplex would be a great venue, but you also have to realize that you have to get access to these venues, which can often be hard.

roadking 10-22-2005 5:31 PM

Princton Lakes in Dallas (4 side by side lakes), AquaPlex in Austin is a possibility. As far as 4 person finals, good idea, but too many competitors, plus this is a amature league, too many long faces for those who don't make it. Maybe a finals for expert and outlaw only.


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