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-   -   Diagnosing problems with dropping the rope (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237507)

surfdad 06-28-2005 8:34 AM

Ok folks, don't flame me! This is just a start and all you experts feel free to add your two cents, perhaps we can create a concise checklist for folks to go over and self-diagnose. <BR> <BR>If you haven't already done so, a review of this site is VERY HELPFUL. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.howtowakesurf.com/" target="_blank">http://www.howtowakesurf.com/</a> <BR> <BR>The wake doesn’t need to be huge, knee high is adequate. For learning, smaller is better than HUGE. However, a too small wake will prove frustrating. Shoot for knee high. <BR> <BR>You need a crisp clean pocket. If there is white water, it’s usually caused by too much weight on the OPPOSITE side of the boat, or the speed being set too slow. Hopefully you are surfing on the weighted side of the boat. If you are still seeing white water, try slowly increasing the speed of the boat until it cleans up. This speed should PROBABLY be in the 9.0 to 10.0 mph range. <BR> <BR>To set your speed, start slow, around 8 mph and then gradually increase speed until the wake cleans up. It can take a little time for it to clean up, so be patient. Perfect Pass is GREAT for this. Just bump the speed up one click. <BR> <BR>For learning a bigger, slower, more stable board is better than the more maneuverable trick style board. This isn’t to say that big slow boards are better than skimboards…only that during the learning phase (first time trying to ride without a rope) stability is what you need. As you improve, you’ll most likely migrate to one of the shorter more maneuverable boards. <BR> <BR>If you are having trouble dropping the rope, be sure that you are in the pocket. This may seem extremely close to the swim deck. The nose of the board should NOT be hitting the swim deck, that is too close. If there is a small curl on the back of the wake and that is hitting the tail of the board, that position is too far back. Try slowly pulling yourself forward towards the boat until you feel the board sort of take off. That is being in the pocket. The board should be aligned with the forward travel of the boat. Always remember you can dive to the side if the board hits the boat. Don’t dive forward towards the boat. <BR> <BR>If you can feel the pocket, or believe that you are in the pocket, but cannot stay there, try shifting your weight forward on the board. First simply try leaning forward, if that doesn’t work, then try shifting your feet forward – scooting them towards the nose of the board. If you get to a point where shifting weight forward causes the nose of the board to go underwater, commonly referred to as pearling, you should try a larger board with more volume. <BR> <BR>

evil_e 06-28-2005 9:51 AM

Good stuff Jeff. A couple things I would add. Pushing yourself and the board towards the wave will help keep you moving with the wave and prevent you from falling behind it. This can be achieved or helped by putting your front foot more towards the side the wave is on (so if your wave is on the left side of the boat, put your front foot a little right of center). Also, while Jeff is right that you don't need a massive wave to start, you should make sure your wave has sufficient volume to sustain you without the rope. Take a look at the wave without anyone riding on it, if it doesn't look like a surfable wave without anyone back there, then it definitely won't be when you lose the weight of one person once they're back there trying to surf.

wrgodsend 06-28-2005 10:13 AM

Thanks Jeff for all your input especially about keeping the wake clean. However, I live in San Clemente, Ca which is a surf town. And everyone that was on our boat have been avid surfers for years. Knowing how to surf wasn't the problem, it was creating a wake that was surfable without the rope. Any more input would help.

surfdad 06-28-2005 10:43 AM

Hey Rachel, I really have a hard time imagining that the wake wasn't surfable on your boat, especially with avid surfers. Yet, the only way to fix that is with more ballast - people or water or lead. We surf both sides of the wake without any ballast when we are goofing around...the wake is not more than 10 inches high. Pump, pump, pump is the word of the day though.

kujito 06-29-2005 8:08 AM

OH GOD! more ballast is better, but PLEASE don't put lead in your boat to get it. this is NOT a good idea!

evil_e 06-29-2005 10:27 AM

What's the matter with lead?

surfdad 06-29-2005 10:40 AM

Yeah, point well taken. I think some non-water ballast is ok. I do believe I've heard that about 250 pounds of lead was ok - mostly to help shape the wake, but I'd agree that a ton of lead or any non-water/non-swimming ballast wouldn't be wise. <BR> <BR>Have you guys seen this: <BR> <BR><a href="" target="_blank"></a> <BR> <BR>It's out of proportion, but gets the point across. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR>

wrgodsend 06-29-2005 2:04 PM

hey Jeff, I was talking to my husband about this problem and he seems to agree with you that we need more weight like a fat sac or something. I think part of the problem is that the X-Star is an extremely heavy boat for a ski boat (4300 lbs)compared to others with are 1000 + less. I believe this requires alot more weight to create the right wake. I know it has nothing to do with lack of skill cause one of the guys on the boat used to be a pro surfer. Trust me, we pumped until are legs were jello and still had a tough time letting go of that rope.

wakesurfer54 06-29-2005 3:21 PM

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/238040.jpg" alt="">

wakesurfer54 06-29-2005 3:21 PM

opps wronge thing

evil_e 06-30-2005 2:30 PM

I'm aware that lead on a boat is going to change the boyancy when sinking, but I can't imagine the 250 lbs of lead I use on my boat and boats my size would even come close to doing any real harm. Obviously lead can be overdone, but I just use it to suppliment the sac I have in the left rear to bump the weight in that corner up to 750 lbs.

4sher 06-30-2005 4:21 PM

Last year I use about 1000lbs of lead in my Enzo but it did make me pretty nervous. This year I had FlyHigh build me a custom 1300lb fat sac that runs most of the left side of my boat. It's complety hidden and works with the existing ballast pumps and plumbing. I would recomend them to anyone. They can make the fat sav fit whatever space you have.

niap101 07-06-2005 7:00 AM

When requesting advice on building a wave or getting push, if you have a picture of your wave, it will help those responding to diagnose your situation.

johnnny_depp 07-07-2005 10:03 PM

I have noticed that most people trying to wakesurf forget to weight the front and forget to slow down. Often times adding no weight is better then putting a ton in the back. The problem caused by putting too much in the back is that the wake gets too washed out at slow speeds, but it can be solved by putting more in the front. Front weight will increase volume which is what really pushes you. Slower is better.

buergday 07-08-2005 5:52 PM

We don't even have any fat sacs and look at our wake. In our boat (centurian) all we need is a few people sitting on the back edge and a cooler full of beer. I think the hull shape makes all the difference. I'm riding about half way up the curl in that picture. The sweet spot (or pocket) is actually lower and a little closer to the boat. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/239605.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by buergday on July 08, 2005)

buergday 07-08-2005 5:53 PM

BTW - thats at about 11mph, two guys on the back of the boat, one leaning over the side in the middle and two girls in the bow. We make the driver stand up in the middle of the boat and steer with one hand.

taylormade 07-10-2005 5:12 AM

Dude, that's sick. My friend's SAN is tall like that, but I don't believe it's that clean.

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