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-   -   Epic wake boats (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229957)

deltadave 05-20-2005 9:02 AM

It looks like Epic wake boats has started their website, <a href="http://www.epicboats.com" target="_blank">www.epicboats.com</a>. You can also check out opinions from the previous thread, <a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/226344.html" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/226344.html</a> <BR>Maybe they'll ride well. Comments?

cla17 05-20-2005 11:14 AM

The website will go LIVE at midnight tonight. Everything except some video is complete. We just finished a crazy photo/video shoot on San Diego bay with a chopper on Wednesday and we haven't had enough time to put together a proper sample of it yet. Great riding and a really cool perspective on our boats, for sure. Anyone ever seen a wake to wake backside 3 on a wakeskate up close from a chase boat before? I have <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> These pros are killing it on skates lately. I look forward to everyone’s' opinions on our new Epic 23v, check the website late tonight or tomorrow for all the info.

krbaugh 05-20-2005 2:13 PM

"the worlds first wake boat" wow now that’s a way to start out with some credibility

hamkj 05-20-2005 2:39 PM

Kevin... they have found a niche in the market. Most claim to be: <BR>Tournament Ski Boats <BR>Competition Ski Boat <BR>Tournament Wakeboard Boat <BR>Competition Wakeboard Boat <BR>Tournament Wakeboarding Boat <BR>Competition Wakeboarding Boat... <BR> <BR>Now you have Epic... <BR> <BR>The World's First WAKE BOAT... <BR> <BR>They are completely different... <BR> <BR>I think one you wakeboard behind... and the other... you admire the wake... I guess you can still wakeboard behind a wake boat too... but it is more to just look at the wake!

krbaugh 05-20-2005 2:42 PM

Ahhh now I see its what is is kinda thing. <BR>Must be the Bill Clinton marketing association <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0>

05-20-2005 9:30 PM

I dont want to be a dick..but honestly, that boat is ugly. If somebody likes it..thats kewl, its their money, and as long as they are happy, so be it..but nobody I know would ever buy that thing

levi 05-20-2005 9:37 PM

Is this boat still associated w/ Hydroswift?

centralcali 05-21-2005 12:09 AM

Chris- <BR>That wake looks huge in the pics. I also like how the shower and lube are built into the back of the boat...and over 3000lbs of automatic internal ballast...what! Looks very interesting! How much do these boats go for?

cla17 05-21-2005 12:25 AM

The wake is HUGE, but more importantly, it is very well shaped. It has lots of transition, hardly any trough and a great lip. The "riders" center in the back of the boat is an awesome feature as well. The rider has access to music controls, the boot luber, and the shower all right under his/her legs. And the grills in the back??? They house the transom audio. Four Infinity 6x9s that throw great sound out to the rider and don't blast out the interior passengers while towing. The boat actually has 3200lbs of fully automatic ballast(1200lbs on each of the back sides and 800lbs up front). And we are trying to get these boats to the average boarder for under $50k fully loaded.

greenpinky 05-21-2005 5:04 AM

That wake IS huge! I wasn't sold on the looks, but wow, that wake does look like it lives up to the hype. 3200 lbs? That's just ridiculous. <BR> <BR>I agree, that riders centre is a great idea too. And the night lights look sick. Love the dash! <BR> <BR>But, the exterior looks leave something to be desired. Too plain, in my opinion. Maybe with some accesories thrown on the Titan 1, it would compliment the boat some more. And, as someone said before, that hull looks like a dress shoe. I guess if it puts out the wake, who cares, right? <BR> <BR>Also, although the interior looks plush, it too is very plain looking. <BR> <BR>Where's the centre windshield, Chris?

ryanbush11 05-21-2005 7:21 AM

My mastercraft has a boot luber, music controls, and a shower at the back, whats so new about that? <BR> <BR>please explain: "worlds first wake boat"?

greenpinky 05-21-2005 7:45 AM

Holy crap! Love the X-80, Ryan!

socalwakepunk 05-21-2005 8:32 AM

I have heard HUGE before, and turned out not so much... HUGE is all relative. Only way I will accept that claim is to either experience it for myself, or hear it from someone I know has ridden HUGE before... <BR> <BR>Pics look good, but have seen good pics before, wake turned out lame. Even an unloaded Bayliner can give a good shot at 16mph. <BR> <BR>Only way to know is to ride behind it. Hopefully some promo boats will start making appearances at local events soon... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by socalwakepunk on May 21, 2005)

socalwakepunk 05-21-2005 8:48 AM

Also, might want to only show riders who are wearing vests...

ryanbush11 05-21-2005 9:21 AM

Thanks Mike, I love that pic of your boat, that is an awesome shot!!!!

cyclonecj 05-21-2005 9:56 AM

Go make your own boat if you think you can do better<IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Just some guys trying to build a better mousetrap. I think it's cool because they didn't copy anybody and made all the stuff you need standard. I'm sick of all the bling and Buck Rogers gauges and tribal crap anyway. The wake looks killer, unless those guys are 5 ft. tall.

ryanbush11 05-21-2005 10:33 AM

I never knocked there boat one bit. I just wnat to know where they got "the First wake boat from" the only thing i see i wouldn't like about the boat is the rear audio, i think it's way too low, it would be way too loud right there at the water where most people are hanging out.

cla17 05-21-2005 11:34 AM

The riders’ center is just meant to be conveniently located accessories. In most boats, you have to lift covers and such to get at these accessories. The riders’ center is just a super convenient place to put all the toys the rider wants to access. Just look under you legs when putting on your board or reach behind you when sitting on the deck. Shower, Boot Lube, Stereo Control, all right there for easy access. The idea behind the transom audio was mainly to make life more pleasant for people riding in the boat. I hated being in friends boats when someone was riding and not being able to converse while someone was riding because the music was just too loud. But, of course, you can’t deny the rider his tunes <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> With the audio on the transom the sound is super clear and loud right in the riders face and the passengers in the boat can still hang out and just relax. Of course, if the passengers want to jam, the 6 polks and the powered sub provide more than ample interior audio. As far as “The World’s First Wake Boat” (Registered Trademark), we have dubbed it as such because this is the first boat and first boat company created completely to support wakeboarding, wake skating and wake surfing. From the ground up, a boat design and company dedicated to further the sport and the enjoyment of riders. Not a boat or company that has shifted focus to wake sports or modified their existing ski boat to accommodate a growing market but a something new, dedicated just to wake sports. From initial concept to testing and completion, innovation in hull design to throw the industries best wake, making the boat comfortable and easily maintained, and tricking it out with all the best accessories for a great price makes this justifiably “The World’s First Wake Boat”. I know that sound like a lot of marketing jargon, but you get the drift. I set out to design a Wake Boat, not a ski boat or a cruiser. I think things have come together nicely on the Epic 23v and everyone who has ridden behind the it is really stoked on the wake, the functionality, and the looks of the boat.

krbaugh 05-21-2005 11:43 AM

It is unfortunate that you did not do any research on this subject. <BR> <BR>“The World’s First Wake <BR>Boat” (Registered Trademark), we have dubbed it as such because this <BR>is the first boat and first boat company created completely to support <BR>wakeboarding, wake skating and wake surfing." <BR> <BR>That statement is patently wrong! <BR> <BR>off the top of my head I can name <BR>5 brands that have created wake boats from the ground up with wake sports in mind! With a little research I am sure the numbers are much higher than that! An no I am not talking about slapping a tower and ballast on an old Ski Hull that was done in the beginning but many many compainies stepped back and designed boats form Scratch <BR>

tlb 05-21-2005 12:23 PM

Why is everyone attacking this guy? Nobody has even seen the boat close up yet. I think it's great that he's bringing something new to market and can't wait to see it close up. I think the boat looks a lot cooler than some others out there. I do think a different style tower would look better on that boat though. <BR>Anyway, nice job. hope to see it at a boat show or a dealer in the Sacto area soon. <BR>

socalwakepunk 05-21-2005 1:26 PM

Not attacking, in fact admiration is in order for bringing another product to our sport. However, with claims like "World's first wake boat" and "HUGE" wake, I think they are inviting skepticism. Alienating owners of other brand "Wake Boats" (pretty sure I took deliver of my "wake boat" before the first Epic will ever be sold), and again claiming a HUGE wake, without any real person experience to back the claim. A marketing pitch is a marketing pitch. I would never make a purchase of this magnatude based on a promotional ad (How many of us have actually purchased a product after seeing an infomercial?). Have to test it out for myself. Again, this is a wait and see situation. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by socalwakepunk on May 21, 2005)

ryanbush11 05-21-2005 3:40 PM

Chris, <BR>I was not atticking you at all (I Know you didn't accuse me, i'm just making it clear) I was just curious!! I'm not going to say that i'm in love with the 23v or would evan purchase one, but I do not think that it is ugly. the only problem I have is the way you assumptions you make. <BR> <BR>Quote: "innovation in hull design to throw the industries best wake" <BR> <BR>Who says the boat has the industries best wake? <BR> <BR>get the boat out there, get it proven, then everyone will know your boat has the best wake, you won't have to tell them. <BR> <BR>The riders center looks like a good idea, I was just stating that the Epic is not the only boat that has all of those features, which I'm sure you already knew. <BR> <BR>Once again I'm not running your boat down one bit, I would just like to see it proven before you make statements like you have. <BR> <BR>A few questions <BR>How many boats have been built so far? <BR>when is production planned to go into full swing <BR>and how many dealerships do you guys have, or have planned to open soon <BR> <BR>If the boat is all you say it is I might be interested in opening a dealership, or at least investing. <BR> <BR>Ryan

cyclonecj 05-21-2005 6:56 PM

You guys that are on the West Coast ring Chris up and go see the boat they made. Why argue about why it may suck? Kevin, buy a plane ticket or get a life or both. It's just marketing, like toothpaste, hope you use that.

socalwakepunk 05-21-2005 10:51 PM

So you are saying this boat sucks?

krbaugh 05-22-2005 12:34 AM

I have a life thank you very much. <BR>Your right it is marketing...... bad marketing but marketing just the same.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>This could be a great boat.....time will tell<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0>

schmo 05-22-2005 6:59 AM

C'mon, they all do this kind of marketing. <BR> <BR>How about mastercraft and <a href="http://www.the-perfect-wake.com" target="_blank">www.the-perfect-wake.com</a>. It basically states, they have the perfect wake and hints at why the others are sub-par. <BR> <BR>Tige has their marketing stating they don't need ballast like other "ski" boats because of their convex hull and TAPS. <BR> <BR>Malibu touts their wedge as being the solution to tons of weight, however most of the guys that I know don't use it and put extra weight in the boat. <BR> <BR>Anyway... marketing is marketing. Most of it is bad in some way and almost all of it is somewhat deceptive indicating that their product is better than the others. In the end, better, best is all relative. <BR> <BR>I am mildly curious about this boat. The bigger concern would be longevity of the company, service options etc until they become established.

krbaugh 05-22-2005 10:53 AM

All good points <BR> <BR>

cla17 05-22-2005 4:47 PM

We will, of course, be trying to get the boat out to as many events as possible this season and tow as many people as possibly so they can experience the wake for themselves. All I have to substantiate my claims so far are the opinions of a lot of friends and a few pros and former pro riders. I assume that anyone interested in purchasing an Epic 23v would test drive it first and get a couple pulls to feel the difference. As far as “The World’s First Wake Boat” goes. I feel that the Epic 23v is the only boat ever designed with only wake sports in mind. Even the X-star has a ski pylon, and it seems to be the closest to a ground-up effort geared to specifically to wake sports, until the Epic 23v. Trust me that MasterCraft gave much consideration to the multi-sport aspect of the X-star. That’s not to say that the X-star isn’t a great boat. But I designed this boat with ONE goal in mind, “build the perfect wake boat”, with the wake, comfort, and functionality I feel the market is lacking. It would also help if my boat was affordable <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> I know that with only one boat out of the molds we have a looooong road ahead of us but hopefully along the way we will get a lot more people stoked on the sport I love and push those already involved to a new level of skill. I know Epic Boats will rub some people the wrong way, as it seems like we are degrading the rest of the industry by saying we are “The World’s First Wake Boat” but I don’t see it that way at all. Through the years I have always supported other boat manufacturers, through tech support on these forums, helping friends out with their boats and just being a proponent of the sport and not a brand. I just like to ride. I have a neighbor that just kills it off his 16ft I/O fishing boat. I love the new VLX, it is certainly the style to chase. The SANTEs throw a great wake and are very reliable. And the X-star has room for days and a freeboard that keeps everything nice and dry. I could go on for days about different brands and their benefits, but I can stop at my point that the best boat for you is the one that you are stoked to ride behind. I just hope that people give us a look when we are in their area. The differences will be apparent when at the end of an Epic 23v line. I regards to production, we are actively seeking a manufacturer to produce these boats and hope to have a final agreement with someone by the end of the month with full production to start by mid June. As of now it looks like we have 2 dealers signed on the west coast. We are trying to sign 5 by the end of the season. We are also looking for investors to help speed up Epic Boats entry into the market.

aidan 05-22-2005 8:08 PM

Cost , fully loaded?

supraman 05-22-2005 8:12 PM

Chris, <BR> <BR>The boat seems to have a number of impressive standard features. From the pictures it's tough to tell -- is a center (walkthrough) panel for the windshield included?

midwesty 05-22-2005 8:14 PM

Chris, it is great that you are on the boards not necessarily all out promoting your product but answering peoples questions....and hope you the best

jaubrey 05-22-2005 8:42 PM

New manufacturers can only push the industry and make the sport better. I have a mastercraft x30 and absolutely love my boat but I want new options and I want the limits to be pushed. I hope Epic succeeds.

tuneman 05-23-2005 11:30 AM

It's good to see new boats trying to get out in such a competitive market. However, here are a few of my concerns: <BR>1. Speakers in the transom sound like a good idea, but what about them getting pounded by water every time the boat stops. Sometimes, when my VLX is fully loaded and I stop too fast, water comes over the back. <BR> <BR>2. Are there any other colors to show besides all black? I really think they would appeal to a much wider audience if they showed more colors. All black is plain. <BR> <BR>3. The lack of a ski pylon is limiting your market even more, which I see as not good. At my level, I require the ultimate ride, but there's still the all too often occasion when someone just wants to tube. And we all know that tubing on the tower creates a bit too much force on the mounts. <BR> <BR>just my 2cents

tonality 05-23-2005 2:34 PM

I have a quick question...how are you keeping water out of the speaker grills on the transom in, say, heavy roller situations?

antbug 05-23-2005 3:11 PM

Chris ~ I really like the looks of your boat, but I have all ways loved the looks of the Titan 1 tower, so that helping me allot. The blunt nose is a good/different look that I think will grow on people in time. <BR> <BR>I do have 1 problem with your statement about the "World's first wake boat". You say the X-star has a ski pylon? Where? I have been on and looked at many X-stars and that is the 1st boat to do that (not have one). Second when has Mastercraft ever said the X-star is good for any other sport than wakeboard, wakeskate, or wakesurfing? I have a buddy with an X-star that I ride on all the time and even without weight the boat still troughs a nice wake that would be hard to ski on. <BR> <BR>Keep up the good work and I'm not trying to bash you, but you need to watch what you say if you want to make it. This website and many others have a BIG influence on what people buy.

malibuboarder75 05-23-2005 3:29 PM

4300lb boat plus 3200lbs ballast...wow. I don't know if anyone noticed, but the freeboard on that thing is really deep, so it looks like you could add another 3000lbs depending on the engine size. That might be a boat I would consider.

cla17 05-23-2005 4:04 PM

The Transom Audio actually works really well. The sound is right in the riders face and clear as a bell. This gives the rider great tunes but doesn’t blast out the interior spectators. The grills protect the speakers from all the water that lays-up against the boat on hard stops but still lets out great sound from the four 6x9 Infinity speakers hidden in there. There will be a ski tow on the production version for tubing and filming and such, but not a ski pylon. Sorry to ruffle your feathers there AntBug. I really like the X-star and Mastercrafts commitment to innovation in design. The market was really stagnant 2 years before the X-star(when I first designed the Epic 23v). Then they came out and took the market by storm. If the Epic 23v can muster 1/100th of the attention that boat got when it launched, I will have little to worry about in terms of sales. But the X-star still had hints of versatility in design. Note the pylon in the attached pics: <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/230399.jpg" alt=""> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/230400.jpg" alt=""> <BR>And for $50,000 fully loaded I’m sure the Epic 23v will stand against the X-star just fine <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>O- Leo, YOU ARE FREAKING CRAZY!!! 4300lbs + gas + 3200lbs of ballast + 3000lbs of Leo Sacs + 16 people to watch you REALLY HURT YOURSELF ON A DOUBLE UP = BAD TIMES ALL AROUND!!! <BR> <BR>But I’d be one of the 16 people <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR>

cla17 05-23-2005 4:13 PM

O sorry, yes the center piece for the window does come standard <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Taylor Made left us hanging for a while on that one. Here it is: <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/230407.jpg" alt="">

antbug 05-23-2005 4:46 PM

Chris ~ you got me on that one, but all the pics are of 03 X-stars. Show me a pic of an 04 or 05 will a ski pylon, but as I said you were right! <BR> <BR>I am not trying to put down your boat cause I like it allot. Just makeing a statement.

cla17 05-23-2005 5:05 PM

The top pic is a 2005. It looks like the pylon and slalom rack are options now and not standard<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> I just had to throw the slalom rack comment as I saw it in the MasterCraft book. But I'm not trying to be defensive. I like the X-stars, they have really changed the game. The new Supras, Moombas, 226s and many others are all chasing the X-star allure now. I finalized my designs before the X-star so I didn’t have a chance to even consider what MasterCraft was doing. But I think its was for the best. The wake on our 23v is just perfect and the boat has been performing beyond all my expectation, and they were HIGH. Now I just have to get Ant Bug down here to try it out <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

ldr 05-23-2005 5:12 PM

I may be wrong but I think the ski pylons for the X star are an option.

socalwakepunk 05-23-2005 5:42 PM

"All I have to substantiate my claims so far are the opinions of a lot of friends and a few pros and former pro riders." <BR> <BR>Who would the pros and former pro riders be? <BR> <BR>I had the option of ordering my SAN with or without a pylon. I went without. ?????

deltadave 05-23-2005 5:58 PM

It sounds like they're uncapitalized. They're looking for investors? And they have no manufacturer to build their boats yet? So, they're not actually building the own boats. That can lead to a lot of production and quality problems. I thought they were further ahead of the game than this. Does it sound a little "fly by night"?

malibuboarder75 05-23-2005 8:02 PM

Chris- I was exagerating with that figure of 3000lbs extra. But I am sure any serious wake rider will add there own extra ballast and make an even more insane wake. Right now I want a boat that throws a wake but is also really efficient. I burn $40 a trip right now and was wondering if any of the newer boats are more efficient when you add all that weight.

cla17 05-23-2005 9:31 PM

I would love to spout off about who has been off the end of an Epic line so far and who exactly thinks the Epic 23v's wake is just "sick". But until release dates are set and things are signed I will just have to bite my tongue<IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":-(" BORDER=0> Trust me I will be the first one shouting from the mountains about what magazines <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> TV Shows <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> And Upcoming Video Releases the Epic 23v will be in <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>As far as fuel consumption goes: we are using the PCM 6.0l as standard on all our boats. It has great power and is not the pig that the 8.0l are on the gas but most boats burn about the same these days. I researched the diesel option and even electric but both are pretty unfeasible as of today. Volvo’s new Z-drive may help out a little(20%) or so but it will be 3 years before I can get a hold of one for production. Until then we will just have to keep passing the hat at the end of every session to cover these outrageous gas prices. <BR> <BR>And in terms of funding, “HECK YES WE ARE UNDER FUNDED!!!” We are actively looking for a couple of investors who can get behind the Epic brand and help us get it out to riders. I am just a guy who really likes to board and wanted to build something better. But I am not rich and have been struggling mightily to get this project to the point it is now for over four years now. Visa and MasterCard are making a fortune in interest payments off me <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":-(" BORDER=0> The company does need backing and I am willing to hear and ideas you guys have. Maybe DeltaDave can throw some backing our way <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> As far as production goes, we had a very nice facility set-up here in San Diego for production but things have not materialized quickly enough for us to keep production in house. We have decided to go the way of Centurion and SkiSupreme and outsource our production and stick to the design and distribution aspects of the business. We do fear quality loss but know that in the end we will turn out a better product this way, it may just take a little while longer to get things set up properly. <BR> <BR>Now to the big point; David Williams(proprietor of WakeWorld) wants to do an article on how this boat was created. From concept through to testing and what’s going on today. What points would most interest you to read about? Hull design, the build process, testing, my current addiction to Dr.Pepper which kept me awake through all those late nights working? Chime in and I will try to address it in the article. Thanks in advance for your input <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR>

krbaugh 05-23-2005 10:07 PM

Centurion is NOT outsourced <BR>Fineline owns Centurion and builds them at there CA and NC plants. <BR> <BR>"We <BR>have decided to go the way of Centurion and SkiSupreme and outsource <BR>our production and stick to the design and distribution aspects of the <BR>business" <BR> <BR>So are you saying Fineline will be building your boats?

cla17 05-23-2005 10:53 PM

Thanks for the correction Kevin<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0> I meant that we will have an outside entity like Ski Supreme does with the FineLine/Centurion Plant and many Hot Boat manufacturers do to get the build process of the boat completed. And no we have not signed a contract with any manufacturer as of yet. But FineLine builds a great boat. I would love to be able to deal with them in the future.

tuneman 05-24-2005 5:48 AM

<b>Chris</b>, I commend you for your efforts and I wish you great success. You remind me of Mark Overbye, when he created Gekko boats.

bbr 05-24-2005 7:47 AM

I admire what your doing, and I wish you the best of luck. I think that you have a good thing going. The problem that I see is that people are going to try to bash you for your ideas, "Mastercraft did that a long time ago".......screw that. Stick with it man, and it'll happen. I would love to ride in and behind one, I might even want to promote it. Good luck to you.

skibum69 05-24-2005 7:53 AM

Chris, people might not like boat at first but many people were unsure of the pickle fork design of the x-star either when it came out. If you ever need a rep in the midwest give me a holler

hamkj 05-24-2005 8:31 AM

I like some of the things Chris has tolaked about. I hope that manufacturers will consider the fact that boats are getting very expensive and will be kept for the long term... and with that in mind... the servicability will also be kept in mind when desiging and building a boat. I have yet to own a boat which I haven't had to modify to make it easier to service. ie.. Lengthening hoses, moving a pump here or there... etc... <BR> <BR>Everything that may require regular servicing, should be easily accessible. Nothing is worse than hitting a nice weekend and something going wrong and then it needing a few days for the dealer to work it into their schedule. <BR> <BR>I still have fears on how my impeller will be changed... I have already relocated my Ballast Puppy Pumps... <BR> <BR>I think Epic is on the right track... when they say they have the rider in mind... that also means... how easy is it to get something fixed and back on the water on the long weekend when all the dealers are closed... <BR> <BR>I have seen way toooo many nice boats sitting inside the fenced compounds of dealers on the long weekend because it was not able to get serviced on time... sad when you think you purchase these $70,000 boats to enjoy your time and weekends etc... and its sitting there not being used! <BR> <BR>Best of luck... bring it up to the Pro Tour Event in Kelowna... and I will arrange a demo drive and ride in Penticton either before or after that event. Let me know... And I will take you through a manufacturing plant here in Penticton and hopefully we can have these built here! <BR> <BR>

jayc 05-24-2005 8:52 AM

Chris its a sweet boat and looks like a monster. Bet theres room for a good party in there! <BR> <BR>I'd love to read up on the story of how you went from the design board to end product. Did you make your own plug or mould off an existing design to base the hull? <BR> <BR>If i win the lottery in the near future I'll back you.

barry 05-24-2005 9:05 AM

Chris, <BR>It takes a lot of drive to do what you're doing, and I seriously doubt a single one of us could pull it off, I know I couldn't. <BR>I wish you the best! <BR> <BR>B-

wakeguru 05-24-2005 9:16 AM

Not bad. The wake has a nice ramp and amount of vert with minimal trough (closest to an X-star wake IMO). I assume you have the stock ballast completely filled in those pics...what line length are your boarders riding at? <BR> <BR>The first comment I have is that you might want to throw a bimini on it and some accessories to finish the look and make it more attractive. People love accessories and you heard the comments regarding it looking "plain". <BR> <BR>Also, I think your trademark slogan may be challenged by another manufacturer at some point. Personally, I'm not sold on that marketing angle/strategy. You backed up that statement, but it still seems like it could be challenged and like someone else said...by not offering the pylon you are limiting your market. <BR> <BR>Wakeboarding is still a "young" sport and the participants are mostly younger. True, the wakeboarding generation, as it were, is getting older and more able to afford these boats. However, there are many people who buy $50K + wake boats who will use them for other towsports and need a pylon. I see brand new 210's pulling tubes all the time in the Orlando area. Apparently, wake boats are nice to have - not only for wakeboarders. <BR> <BR>Lastly, kudos to you for taking the criticisms in stride. Competition and new designs are good for the industry. If it's a good wake boat, people will take note and the rest will take care of itself. Now get out there and sell, sell, sell! lol <BR> <BR>P.S. Ditto what Barry said!

tutman 05-24-2005 11:45 AM

David, <BR> <BR>To answer your question of weight and line length, front ballast was full, rear was about half. I have been typically riding between 80 and 85 feet, but others have been anywhere from 70 to 90. <BR> <BR>This boat has been nothing but amazing to watch come together. Chris has done an incredible job and has worked tremendously hard to see this through. <BR> <BR>I also ditto Barry. I don't know anyone else who could have pulled this off. Congrats, Chris! <BR> <BR>

wakeguru 05-24-2005 12:37 PM

Right on, thanks.

agfan12 05-24-2005 1:42 PM

Chris and Adam...if you guys ever need a third hit me up...that thing looks really sweet and I'd love to ride behind it! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR><a href="mailto:dpbowen@gmail.com">dpbowen@gmail.com</a>

antbug 05-24-2005 2:07 PM

Daniel ~ me 1st BACK OF BUDDY! hay wait I have your board so you can't ride unless I say so. hahahaha call me so I can meet up with you to give you your stuff back. 818-489-9003

agfan12 05-24-2005 6:28 PM

hahaha, ok, Chris and Adam, E-mail me and I'll get bug the info! <BR> <BR>

malibuboarder75 05-24-2005 7:35 PM

Daniel D- anyone buying a boat with 3200lbs stock ballast is probably a serious wakeboarder. I have only used my ski pole once in the last 4 years of owning my boat. I have never personally used it. <BR> <BR>I would definately look into buying an epic wakeboard boat as my next boat. My only question is the reliability of the boat, what type of warranty, and is this company going to last.

peacock 05-24-2005 7:51 PM

You could build the greatest boat ever, but people buy from people, not companies. I would think that the biggest challenge you are facing is convincing the prospective customer to dump their 50K to you. Integrity, honesty and an up front sales process is just as important as any other ingredient listed thusfar.

krbaugh 05-24-2005 8:07 PM

A good indication would be to go to the web site for the latest new comers to the market <BR><a href="http://www.toyotaboats.com" target="_blank">http://www.toyotaboats.com</a> <BR><a href="http://www.infinityskiboats.com" target="_blank">http://www.infinityskiboats.com</a> <BR>http://www.elanboats.com <BR> <BR> <BR>All out of business <BR> <BR>I wish you guys good luck but you have a <BR>hard row to hoe! <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by krbaugh on May 24, 2005)

malibuboarder75 05-24-2005 8:28 PM

But Kevin, all of those companies were putting out average boats at about the same price as most of the other companies. None of those boats offered something different. For about 15g's less, you can get a huge boat with a huge ballast system. This boat is made for wakeboarding nothing else. I think the 3200lb ballast system and stock everything is very attractive to many hardcore wakeboarders not wanting to spend 65k on a boat.

malibuboarder75 05-24-2005 8:36 PM

I have a suggestion for the epic guys... <BR> <BR>The bimini should be standard, and some tower speakers should be an option. And there should be a stereo package which would include additional tower speakers, the powered sub, and the Ipod dock for a decent price.

three6ty 05-24-2005 8:43 PM

Hey Chris, <BR>If you want to hook me up with a demo boat im game. Id be happy to take people out and do Demo's up here in the Riverside/ Temecula area ( you could reach everyone in the Lake Elsinore? Lake PErris/ Vail Lake / Canyon Lake area) <BR> <BR>I have a 2001 Supra LAunch SSV right now but am looking to get a new boat soon. I'll give you it as a trade in . <BR> <BR>I ride up here in Temecula ( lots of people with lots of Disposable income ) Great advertising. I go riding 2x per week at Vail Lake ( Lots of people there with lots of Disposable income ). Again Great advertising!!!! <BR> <BR>Let me know I will be your best salesman!!!!!!

cla17 05-24-2005 8:47 PM

We are just trying to build a great wakeboard boat. Functional, comfortable, and something that you won’t have to put in extra hours at work to pay for because those hours are for riding <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> We want to build a stable company this season with this one design and expand or line into next season. <BR> <BR>But you guys over looked my BIG question???? <BR> <BR>WakeWorld is going to do an article on the creation of this wake beast. What things are you most curious about? JayC asked about our plus design. I think the basic hull design and testing is most interesting to me, but initial water tests were fun as well. The actual production of the plugs and molds were a labor intensive pain in the rear, but a very important part to get just right. Chime in...I am putting things together tonight and trying to send all the info to WW by next Wednesday. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR>

malibuboarder75 05-24-2005 8:53 PM

I have a question about the hull. "Like an airplane wing lifts an airplane, segments of the hull actually pull the boat down deeper into the water when under speed, which displaces more water and throws a more sizeable wake." How does that work. <BR> <BR>I am curious about how many people worked on this project and how you built it without a factory or help from an existing company. <BR> <BR>Also, how much did it cost to build this thing from scratch.

cla17 05-24-2005 9:05 PM

I will include your first two questions Leo but I might make myself a little nauseous thinking about how many nice lake houses I could own in Florida for what it has cost me to put this design into production<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by cla17 on May 24, 2005)

krbaugh 05-24-2005 9:51 PM

leo lasecki (malibuboarder75) <BR> <BR>Could be but I would argue that you can get everything with the exception of the 3k of ballast for the same price range from several very good Manufactures. Even the blunt nose has already been done. Again I wish them the best of luck there is always room for a quality innovative product <BR>

bmh2208 05-24-2005 9:55 PM

I think the process that you went about to determine the hull shape would be great. Did you have a naval architect help in the design at all? Any CFD analysis in the computer before anything was done? Coming from an Ocean Engineering background myself, there is a ton of stuff that goes into designing a hull and systems to cooperate together and be safe. Of course all my studies were on huge oil tankers, FPSO's etc, but would still be applied to smaller vessels as well. I was always intrigued by how you could actually model the hull shape and see the effects of the hydro forces, all in a simulation. <BR> <BR>Pics of the process, kinda a diary would be great, to get everyone in tune with the sweat and blood that went into designing/manufacturing the new boat. <BR> <BR>As far as the lake houses in Florida goes....that is why you need to be successful at this so you can buy even more houses. The intercoastals down in Miami/Lauderdale are pimp. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bmh2208 on May 24, 2005)

three6ty 05-24-2005 10:01 PM

Chris I guess that is a NO??

cla17 05-24-2005 10:22 PM

Sry, I put down a reminder to hit you up with an e-mail E-Dub<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> I'm lagN, but wanted to keep on top of the board so I can get this article done for WW. <BR> <BR>Any more questions about the build???

malibuboarder75 05-25-2005 7:36 AM

Thats cool, I thought the third question was personal but I asked anyway. <BR> <BR>I really like this boat. Are you going to have any East Coast dealers, we are buying a new boat next year and it is going to be specifically for wakeboarding. Maybe it will be an epic...

trickskisrock 05-25-2005 4:44 PM

First off, I agree w/ Brandon's questions. What type of modeling, if any, did you do to model the shape of the hull and estimate the size and shape of the wake. What sorts of structural analysis did you perform on the hull to analyze the stresses induced by taking the boat at full speed back over your wake for a double up. Any special materials or construction techniques in the layup of the hull? Also, are you using a standard alternator in this boat to power all the stereo equipment, or did you use a HO marine alternator such as many people on this board are adding as aftermarket kits.

cla17 06-04-2005 12:56 AM

Any last questions before I send this article off to be front page? I tried to address the whole process from concept to completed production boat. The narrative follows pictures to help clarify things. I think it is a pretty interesting journey from shaping foam in my driveway to an actual finished product that throws a “SICK” wake. I hope you will have a read through the article when it is up.

bigasswake 06-04-2005 4:49 AM

Chris I wanna light that bitch up !!! It deserves only the best. And those crappy lights from innovative are just not gonna cut it <BR>Neil <BR>8178810979 <BR><a href="mailto:litupelectronics@gmail.com">litupelec tronics@gmail.com</a>

cla17 06-05-2005 10:05 AM

We have to get you out to Diego for a ride Neil <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> Then we can Light It Up!

hymaeringo 06-05-2005 11:15 AM

interior looks very Malibu-ish. <BR>Wake looks monstrous. <BR>Needs to be more tech. <BR> <BR>Kyle: you are right about service time being a problem. It is the 3rd biggest concern for buyers when looking to buy a new boat because dealers are so overwhelmed due to the obvious seasonality of our sport.


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