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-   Archive through February 04, 2005 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=211794)
-   -   Alliance and WB Mag (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207758)

magellan 01-20-2005 8:33 AM

Anyone else not all together impressed with the pics of riders without vests starting to be printed? There was a big to do a few years ago and they would not post any pics without vests...now it's almost like they feel they can sneak them in and begin to get away with it again. <BR>That's pretty cool until a kid drowns.

wakeguru 01-20-2005 9:15 AM

Hopefully most people are intelligent enough to know that when they don't wear a vest, seatbelt or helmet...or when they jump out of a plane without a parachute that there are risks involved and they should weigh them accordingly.

fatsac 01-20-2005 9:27 AM

All I know is that it took several phone calls to Alliance to even get an issue sent to me - after I paid for the subscription. <BR>That lasted for two months and again, they are a month behind. By the way, my subscription does not expire until June. Good people<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

jlm 01-20-2005 10:30 AM

Seems that all of WB mag is ads. At least alliance has articles to read about our sport. When I get the time i'm going to actually count how many ads are in an issue of WBM

wakeguru 01-20-2005 11:42 AM

That's discouraging, fatsac. I was thinking of getting one myself. <BR> <BR>I'm done with my subscription to WBM. The only good parts it seems are the cover shots and the how-to sections. That cover of Reed poking the bi-level is all time. The cover from about a year ago of Lutgert busting a grabbed roll on some deserted lake out West taken from high above is epic also. <BR> <BR>It's all the immature commentary that turns me off..."Dude, you wrecked your melon, broke seven bones and lost an eye trying to gap a highway on a skate. That's so friggin' cool, here's a new ProTec helmet for your next attempt and try to get some video this time numb nuts"**. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/talker.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR><b>**not an actual quote from WBM.</b>

guido 01-20-2005 12:03 PM

I'd definitely like to see more in depth board and boat reviews. Maybe some more how to articles. Something entertaining to read. Right now I get the mags, scan the pictures and that's pretty much it. I don't think I've read any decent content in months. This years board review guide was a complete joke, leaving me thinking that the guys that wrote it haven't even ridden some of the boards reviewed.

solo 01-20-2005 12:14 PM

First of all both magazines support our sport and help promote the growth of our industry. Each mag has it's plus's and minus's. With the major sponsors pulling out of wakeboarding, ie; GM and Vans, canceling your subscription only hurts us more. Both magazines have had distribution issues. This happens in a small industry. Support our sport by going to an event, either Pro level or INT. Purchase new gear, and write the mag a letter if you are not content with their performance. It's easy to sit at home on our soap boxes and complain. Meanwhile our sport is getting less and less coverage. I get free issues from both mags and yet I still support them by paying for my subscriptions.

cwbrider14 01-20-2005 12:47 PM

I couldn't care less how much its covered. I would rather still have a fun day on the lake without 6,000 boats on the water because its become cool and consumer friendly.

solo 01-20-2005 12:58 PM

That's pretty narrow minded....

fatsac 01-20-2005 1:08 PM

"Sit on our soap boxes and complain"... <BR>By that I suppose you mean pay for the mag, do not receive an issue for two months, then call and email several times,... receive two issues, then nothing. <BR>...and I still have 5 months left! <BR>If you consider my efforts "sitting on a soapbox", please enlighten me to the ways of motivation. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0> <BR>

wakeguru 01-20-2005 1:20 PM

They're reading the forums - no need to write 'em a letter. <BR> <BR>That's a very noble thing you do Steven - paying for your subscriptions even though they're free of charge for you. Unless you're lying. Just kidding.

solo 01-20-2005 1:34 PM

Fat sac, I wasn't singling you out, that's why I said "Our" I have been know to preach and not follow up with actions that justify my position. That's why I try and support our industry as much as possible now. I know Bill McCafrey would love to resolve your issues. Shoot him an e-mail @ <a href="mailto:bill@alliancewake.com">bill@alliancew ake.com</a>. The buck stops with him. <BR> <BR>My normal subscription delivery from both mags has been a bit spotty in the past as well. But I now receive early delivery via fed ex. This is a small industry guys and things happen. I'm sure if you contact the right person your issues will be resolved. <BR> <BR>I personally felt that both gear guide issues had the best photography I've seen in awhile. I just received March's issue of WBM and the coverage of the Mexico volcano trip and the Tige US open in Kauai is sick. Enjoy.

guido 01-20-2005 2:05 PM

Steven... I agree with you on photography. Thats why I said I open every issue and go straight to the pictures. I'm also a big supporter of the industry. Anybody that rides as much as a lot of us ends up spending a very large chunk of money on equipment. <BR> <BR>I'm just a little sad about the lack of content in each issue. How 'bout those boat and board reviews by the normal people that spend time behind the boat. Most people buy based on a manufactures write up or a pro's influence. I'd love to be able to pick up a mag and get some insight into equipment performance in the real world. <BR> <BR>I know it's a small industry and people are trying to keep it alive and make a buck. WBM/Alliance if the budgets are that tight send me some equipment. I'll review and write up anything you want, plus I'll do it for free. I'm not going to stop reading either magazine. I'm a wake junkie (like most here) and I'll do just about anything to get as much wakeboarding in my system as possible, but I'd just like to get a bit more from my subscriptions. <BR> <BR>By the way Hahn... You're doing great work with the photos and congrats on getting so much of your work published. <BR> <BR>Peace

solo 01-20-2005 2:08 PM

Thanks Man! That made my day.....

socalwakepunk 01-20-2005 2:39 PM

FYI, yes the powers that be at both publications do watch this discussion board. I have received emails and phone calls from people at both mags regarding comments made on this board (within hours).

tdeneka 01-20-2005 3:01 PM

I still like the pictures, it's really cold here. <BR> <BR>Notice the virtual lack of Nautiques in WMB lately?? Corresponds to the lack of CC ads?

solo 01-20-2005 3:27 PM

I just went through every page of the March WBM. Not a Nautique in sight? Very Interesting....<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

magellan 01-20-2005 3:41 PM

Those mags are hugely ad support driven. <BR>If you don't put ads in the mags, we won't put pics of your boats/gear/riders in our mags.. <BR>All mags are like that.. <BR>Unfortunately this mag owns the tour, which pays the judges, whom decide who wins... <BR>Follow me?

bradb 01-20-2005 4:40 PM

Thomas, <BR>What's up with lack of CC adds? I hadent noticed. In the waterski boat byers guide, they are EVERYWHERE! there were CC adds on both sides of most major manufacturers tests, and a CC add on each side of the nautiques tests. I couldn't believe how many cc adds there were. <BR>B <BR>

tyler_o 01-20-2005 5:14 PM

I noticed that lack of CC ads too and wondered the same thing. There were two in the most recent issue of Wakeboarder (Canadian publication I believe that comes out only a few times a year). But nothing in WB or Alliance in the last several issues. Curious indeed. <BR> <BR>Steven, I was unaware of GM's pullout. Is that the reason the Vortec Powerhour seems to have dropped from OLN TV?

magellan 01-20-2005 5:16 PM

Here's why.. my opinion of course. <BR>The Water Ski mag is poppin right at boat show season. This is the time of year people get hot to trot and want to buy a boat so...CC flooded WS Mag with a ton of ads. CC didn't flood WB Mag cause the average reader is probably 14 and has eight bucks to his name. <BR> <BR>Pretty smart if you ask me. <BR>I still want someone to answer the question of why the 05 210 is 60+g when the hull has been the same for an amazing amount of years. That mold has been paid off well before the Bush administration. Give the buyers a break <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> you come out with something new.

sydwayz 01-20-2005 5:17 PM

The big let down in the Wakeboard magazine world is Level X. First they went to Wake Surfing, now they are houseboating. I use to really enjoy their mag and their reviews. They also where wakeboardboattest.com

solo 01-20-2005 5:25 PM

Al Alverez from GM is responsible for the Vortec power hour. We are currently working on a 22.5 minute segment for the time slot. He has had issues filling the slot and most likely will be dropping the show next quarter. Sad but true.

bog 01-20-2005 5:38 PM

CC doesnt advertise in WB mag because they dont agree with the direction of the magazine. I think it goes back to some other ads.

tyler_o 01-20-2005 6:45 PM

Steven, <BR> <BR>That's too bad on the PowerHour. Even w/o Tivo I'd catch that show on OLN everytime. Keep us posted on where your segment is coming up, I'd like to check that out.

alanp 01-20-2005 7:46 PM

im too fed up with the content of wbm. the segments seem to be written for 10 year olds. i counted the full page ads in the last magazine and it was 92 full page ads. it would be nice to have a little more substantive content and guest writers that have something to say. however i do like the schmidt instructionals and seeing the new gear.

teamvaldez 01-20-2005 11:51 PM

When it comes to ads, isn't that the nature of publishing? All magazines, from your Country Living, Cosmo, Good Housekeeping, Playboy, Penthouse, Maxim, Seventeen and all the others are mostly ads. Why is it that we label it as selling out when it comes to wakeboarding? I personally like both mags, including the ads. Those ads are the folks that are driving the technology behind the sport and supporting the growth of it. I know that I am going to hear in a subsequent post about how there is somebody that doesn't care about the growth of the sport. Alright already, we know, we know. It is easy for us to sit in the cheap seats and pick apart the work of others. Can you do it better? Than by all means, put together your own magazine and blow us all away with your humanitarianism by not putting in one single ad. <BR>Evan, you had a great idea, write up a proposal on what you want to see in the mags, or better yet, write an article, and send it to whichever magazine you want. I believe if your not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. <BR>I wrote a letter to the editors of Alliance two years ago and between Bill and Corey, they utilized the ideas, along with their own and put together the grassroots section. <BR>Same goes with pics, gifted with a good eye? Send in your shots, have the gift of gab? send in an interview. See what happens and quit complaining about something you may or may not know anything about. <BR>Steven Hahn keep up the good work, it's been a good year for you. Great job! <BR> <BR>PS To answer the original question on this thread? SoCalrider, I agree with you. I don't believe that any rider should be showcased either in an ad or an article that doesn't have a vest on. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by teamvaldez on January 20, 2005)

hba313 01-20-2005 11:54 PM

Each of these publications has its merrits. They both serve the industry quite well. Personally, I like Alliance. Alliance has much more of a "grass roots" appeal. They seem to get the fact that not everything in this sport happens in Orlando. Don't get me wrong, Orlando is awesome, but the sport is very much alive in other areas of the country as well. <BR>I have had a chance to meet many of the Alliance staff. They are awesome guys that are truely committed to wakeboarding and the lifestyle surrounding it.

nauty 01-21-2005 8:50 AM

I do not have a problem with there being a ton of ads in a magazine. However, there should be an equal proportion of content to go along with those ads. <BR> <BR>Take note of other publications (such as GQ and Maxim) that are quite a bit thicker than WB magazine. They have just as many ads as WB magazine, but they also have much more content to go along with those ads. Other publications that come to mind such as People or Spin are on the thin side just as WB and Alliance, but have far less advertising than the two wakeboard magazines. <BR> <BR>What I'd really like to see out of both WB mags is more in depth product review. Instead of dedicating one issue out of the year to cover all the new products with a 3 sentence review on each, how about reviewing one new board and one new boat, etc, in every issue? <BR> <BR>Futhermore, when reviewing a new product, how about giving us an honest opinion? Why is it that movie critics and restaurant reviewers have no problem slamming a movie or restaurant if they deserve to be slammed? Have you ever read a bad review of a product in WB magazine? <BR> <BR>Personally, I'd like to know if a pair of new bindings are crap before I go out and plop $250 to buy them or even $25 to go demo them. I thought one of the cornerstones of journalism was to be objective and report the truth, good or bad. <BR> <BR>This may be a small industry and these two mags may be all we have. However, some day someone with a little capital behind them will come along and do it right. Hopefully our two mags will wake up and smell the coffee (or read the message boards) and effect some change to give the readers what they want, as well as what they need to make informed buying decisions. <BR> <BR>How's that for a soap box?

antbug 01-21-2005 9:45 AM

Richard ~ Well said.

tdeneka 01-21-2005 9:56 AM

Does anyone really use the verb (or noun in some cases) "session"??? It has become more and more prevelent in WBM; they are even shortening it to "sesh" in some instances. Just curious. Perhaps you city-folk use it?? It sounds goofy to me. <BR> <BR>BTW, there were two pages with CC represented in the last WBM. The page covering the college comp showed a couple pics of a Nautique in the background. The other was the mini remote-control boat toward the back. That's it though. Tige has been very well covered; they must be footing the bill for the last couple of issues.

teamvaldez 01-21-2005 2:07 PM

Richard. awesome ideas, well thought out and valid. Thats so much better than just complaining! Very well said.

solo 01-21-2005 2:25 PM

Thanks guys. Both mags have shown me a lot of love this last year. I'm currently working on a few projects, including a Powell 05 spread. Like Valdez said, get involved, write something, shoot some pics, talk to people in the industry and go to an organized event and show support for riders.

wakenboard 01-23-2005 7:03 PM

fatsac, <BR>keep in mind that alliance goes bi-monthly for part of the year so that could be why you're 'missing' issues

fox 01-24-2005 9:12 AM

I think that they need to skip photos of people without a lifejacket. The picture of Bonifay doing a nose press down a slider w/o a vest is a prime example. Really irresponsible. Not more that giving away a set of KMC rims to a guy who snapped his leg? I have a lot of sympathy for that guy, it really sucks...but come on. They seem to not mind alienating the crowd with money to burn with their sponsors. They are catering to the kid, who's parent funds this habit without thinking about any of these topics. <BR> <BR>I do like the photoshoots and spreads of the riders though. <BR> <BR>Eric

cenfla 01-30-2005 5:19 PM

I COMPLETELY agree with everyone...I was amazed and pretty upset of the shots of Shane Bonifay on the slider, Rusty doing the land gap and stef tor's slider where NONE of them were wearing helmets...I think it is really irresponsible and a dangerous message to send to the younger generation of riders. Someone should contact WBM and figure out what is going on...personally I dont think they should let anyones pic in a mag unless they are wearing proper equipment, no matter who they are.

electricsnow 02-01-2005 12:25 AM

Money is the answer. Why do you think they ended their vest policy? I'm just glad that they admitted that they were going to start using vestless riders, because before it was just hypocritical. But clearly the impact of cordell's death was shortlived, unfortunately. <BR> <BR>Money seems to take priority over principles, peoples... <BR> <BR>


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