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-   Archive through August 01, 2004 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=184054)
-   -   Tige 24V vs. Wakesetter 23.5 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177733)

bross 07-07-2004 12:44 PM

I just got back from my local Malibu dealer and I am impressed with their boats. My top pick for a new boat was the Tige 24V, but I now believe it to be the Malibu. Does anybody own the 24' Malibu wakesetter? I haven't been able to ride behind either boat yet, but I plan to. How is the wake comparison? Does the wedge help better than the TAPS system? Overall, what do you guys...and girls...prefer?

deuce 07-07-2004 1:49 PM

Malibu makes a great boat, as does Tige. When you take them out for a drive, have Croft and Taylor meet you up there within an hour of each other. I know which boat I prefer and I also know which dealer I prefer. In fact, one of the two you mention has a very poor reputation among the local wakeboarding community. The other is arguably the biggest supporter of local wakeboarding. But it is your money, so the decision is yours. <BR> <BR>When you are going to drop this type of cash, best to research it to death. <BR> <BR>Good luck. <BR> <BR>E.J. <BR>

eas 07-07-2004 2:24 PM

Pardon the interruption.... <BR> <BR>E.J., <BR>Nice diplomatic approach...I like how you handled that. <BR> <BR>Brian, <BR>Check E.J.'s profile for what might be a clue to which dealer he prefers. It may be a coincidence....but maybe not.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>In regards to which boat to buy....you are definitely doing the right thing by testing each. Let us know how it goes.

thekuz 07-07-2004 5:25 PM

Both are great boats. I test drove both and liked the 24V much more. I liked the lay out, room and storage in the Tige. I also liked the TAPS better. TAPS is on-the-fly, while the wedge has to be manually controlled. The deciding factor, however, was the dealer. This is a HUGE factor in buying a boat. All the boat companies make great boats. But the dealer is who you will be dealing with on a regular basis. My dealer, Tige Watersports, has been incredible. Good luck. You can't go wrong with either boat.

suckbuthavefun 07-07-2004 5:30 PM

<i>I liked the lay out, room and storage in the Tige. I also liked the TAPS better. TAPS is on-the-fly, while the wedge has to be manually controlled</i> <BR> <BR> <BR>Do you like to slalom? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by suckbuthavefun on July 07, 2004)

thekuz 07-07-2004 5:42 PM

Most of the people using my boat wakeboard. If I wanted it for slalom, I would get a DD.

blindsiderider 07-08-2004 12:57 AM

24V by far..... The wedge is a great product if you own a fuel dock.(that is just what I have heard from BU owners) Taps is not just so that you can slalom it makes it allot easier to adjust the wake when you have different riding ability's behind the boat with out having to pump out the ballast.

ssjrmk 07-08-2004 5:49 AM

Brian, remember Taps can only make the wake smaller and the wedge can only make the wake bigger.

rock_n_boardin 07-08-2004 9:12 AM

Both great boats, ride behind and drive both. All things being equal dealership support is huge. <BR> <BR>Steve, though you are right, what is your point? Because the Taps defaults to wakeboard setting what you say is true. But how does your bit of logic help Brian make a decision? If the TAPS defaulted to the ski setting you would be wrong but who cares? LOL <BR> <BR>If you are serious about wakeboarding you are going to weight the heck out of either boat. Once weghted the Tige's TAPS helps clean the wake shape. <BR> <BR>But again you can't go wrong with either. It's all personal preference.

fox 07-08-2004 12:47 PM

I agree with you J.F. I think that the TIGE idea is inovative. You can adjust either way on the fly without stopping the boat, whereas the wedge does require you to stop either way. The wedge is very effective though and not as bulky as water obviously. It takes me 20 minutes to fill the sofa and sack I use in my nautique. I only have one pump though.

rock_n_boardin 07-08-2004 4:41 PM

Thanks for agreeing Eric. <BR> <BR>You will need add weight to either boat even with the TAPS or the Wedge. Both I am sure come with some kind of automatic ballast. So you shouldn't have to manually fill bags. Though with that big of a boat you might "depending on how serious you are about boarding" want to add additional weight beyond the Wedge/TAPS and stock ballast.

bigj 07-08-2004 6:24 PM

You guys have turned this thread into comparing taps to the wedge, But the Wakesetter 23 LSV comes standard with 1250 lbs of ballast standard with that wedge. With all that extra ballast the Malibu kills the Tige in wake size and shape too. Remember it is Tige adjustable performance system. ( Not Tige adjustable wake system ) That would be TAWS. Also the quality of the Malibu is far superior to the Tige, Which is what Brian has seen after looking at the two boats.

deuce 07-09-2004 8:44 AM

An honest question and not trying to call you out, but Bill have you actually rode behind a 24V? Stood up next to the wake as compared to a LSV? I say that because some may argue your wake statement. Brain you will be able to find this out for yourself when you do an on the water test of the boats. <BR> <BR>As far as quality goes.... I am an educated man and I cannot tell the difference between the "quality" of any of the top end boats. When people say this, I just don't understand. I can see that the boats are all very nice, but as far as spending an few hours in them and then give a quality assessment....well....don't look for me to give you an educated answer on that. Then again, I am not an engineer....nor do I build boats, work on gelcoat or with vinyl...I don't have any fancy computers/tools to check resistance or strength or whatever they do... So maybe I just miss things... <BR> <BR>I'll finish this by again stating that I have no idea which boat is better for you or anyone else. Personally I would have purchased a SAN, X-2 or VLX and been very happy, so it came down to dealer. <BR> <BR>You will not get a "my boat is better than yours" out of me....you may get a "my dealer is better than yours" though....<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>E.J.

trace 07-09-2004 9:32 AM

i own an older VLX with a lot of ballast, and i've ridden a Tigé 24V wake a couple times. the 24V wake is excellent for such a large, wide boat, very similar in size &amp; quality to my boat, and with minimal ballast. i've never ridden the new WS 23 LSV wake, but can't imagine it being better than a weighted VLX. <BR> <BR>couple comments on quality... in my experience, Tigés and 'bus are both very reliable right out of the box. i do prefer the feel of 'bu vinyl and the fit &amp; finish of the interior has a little bit on Tigés, but they're both still very nice boats. <BR> <BR>TAPS is a nice feature, almost acts as trim for rough water, and really lays the wake down for skiing. i would vote for the Wedge being more innovative, and just as effective for a crossover boat because you can then use less (rear) ballast and just flip it up when someone wants to ski. (when was the last time that happened?) :D the Wedge does not do anything for trimming the hull, though, and does sacrifice a bit in fuel consumption. however, if we're really all that worried about fuel economy, we're in the wrong sport. <BR> <BR>most importantly, demo everything you're interested in, without big time gaps between demo rides, and get as much feedback &amp; opinions as possible on the dealers.

bigj 07-09-2004 9:41 AM

E.J. Yes I did ride both boats as well as X-30. Not only was the wake bigger on the Malibu but it was far cleaner also. I'm sure some people may argue my statement, But more times than not, People are going to see the higher quality in a Malibu, Mastercraft, or Natique. The ones that dont are the people who will buy Tiges. Curious why you didnt consider Tige when you purchased your boat?

ilovetrains 07-09-2004 10:01 AM

I am following this thread closely as these are two boats I am looking at. Unfortunately neither dealer has one, so no ride for now. <BR> <BR>I have noticed that most posters do not own either boat. From the owners perspective, how are the Tige interiors? They were supposed to be new for 04 right? <BR> <BR>Other issues aside, Tige does seam to have lower resale than the Bu, but are they going for less up front? <BR> <BR>Also, wouldn't gas consumption be a wash as the tige weighs significantly more than the Bu to begin with?

deuce 07-09-2004 10:28 AM

Bill, <BR> <BR>We looked at the 22V &amp; the Boss(my wife) didn't like it. I think "we" spent a grand total of 5 minutes in it and she said "I hate this boat." She is pushing 5'3" and felt the seats pushed up on her legs. That was it...off the list. <BR> <BR>E.J.

captainfreedom 07-09-2004 10:48 AM

I have been trying to stay out of this thread, but will give some input. I have been in both boats and both are gorgeous boats. I just don't get where you comments are coming from Bill. I have put a lot of time in behind the new 24V's and just can't understand how you can say the wakes are smaller and washed out. You put 1500 pounds of ballast in that boat and the wakes are as big as any boat out there...and clean. <BR> <BR>I would completely agree with E.J.'s comments that is would go down to the dealer. I feel both have great fit and finish and both are huge inside. The Tige will definitely give you more room. Both have great wakes. I have a good friend who drives tournaments with both boats and has nothing but good to say out of both of them. He does feel the 24V handles better, but that is about it. He likes both of them. <BR> <BR>Funny E.J. The higher seats/lower floor are one of my favorite features of the Tige. Every time I am in a VLX, I feel like me knees are up in my chin. That is why people need to demo the boats as everyone has said. What works for one person may not work for another.

shareejeremy 07-09-2004 11:34 AM

Ok, sorry to kind of high jack the thread, but I noticed some Utah posters on this thread talking about dealers. <BR>I'm in St. George, and I need to upgrade from my Bayliner 2050. There are no wakeboard dealers down here, and need help finding one up in Northern Utah. I need something lower budget, good for wakeboarding, and yet good for the family. Any suggestions of dealers. Especially ones that are willing to demo. <BR>Thanks

chucky 07-09-2004 11:49 AM

I have sold boats for a long time, all boats are good in some way. The only thing a can stress about the tige is the winshield flex grab the wings and shake them, and do the same to the malibu. Feel the interior. Look at resale value. Malibu builds almost 3 times the boats. They have 3 plants.

rkg 07-09-2004 11:57 AM

I actually saw the quality in a Natique and still ended up in a Tige, go figure..... <BR> <BR>As for the difference in wake size, did both boats have the same amount of ballast? Just because the Bu had a factory does not mean you can not have one in the Tige (Rival).. how does the price of a Bu with Std ballast compare to the Tige with aftermarket, or even the factory optional ballast. Your comments seem to be leaving parts of the story out. <BR> <BR>End of the day, any of these boats will put out a kickin wake. You have to find which one fits your needs. Example of my boat shopping: <BR> <BR>NAutique: Wife passed due to size and price (she understood the quuality, but just could not get comfortable with that boat). TO this day, we are both huge NAtique fans, just not the boat for us. <BR> <BR>Malibu: Looked at the VLX immediately after the Nautique, loved the boat. The boat was one of the favorties. <BR> <BR>Tige: Got a smoking deal on 2001, fit what we were looking for, so we bought it. Loved the interior and space, wake is nice and steep, and weighted right does not wash out.

talltigeguy 07-09-2004 12:00 PM

Sharee, <BR> <BR>I went to Vegas because its only 1 hour and 45 minutes for me, whereas salt lake is 4 + hours. The Tige dealer in Vegas is very solid. I believe he outsells Malibu by quite a stretch. I thought the upholstery in the Tige was better feeling that the Bu when I compared head to head at the Vegas boat show. <BR> <BR>The boats are very close to the same size but the 24V weighs about 500+ pounds more according to both websites. The difference is in the hull thickness. <BR> <BR>What works best for one person may not work better for another. If a bu fell out of the sky onto my porch I sure wouldn't throw it away. <BR> <BR>Good comment about fuel economy. It kills me that people want to drop 45K on a boat but worry about $2 per gallon. THis is an expensive sport we're involved in.

rock_n_boardin 07-09-2004 12:21 PM

"Remember it is Tige adjustable performance system. ( Not Tige adjustable wake system ) That would be TAWS." <BR> <BR>TAWS, Bill good thing you are not in marketing! <BR> <BR>Actually what makes the Taps work is the Tige's Convex Hull. It allows the Transom to sit deeper in the water while at speed. Isn't that what the Wedge does too? The Taps is there to adjust the wake and to bring the Transom up or in other words it counteracts the Convex Hull giving you versatility on the go. <BR> <BR>This is off Tige's Website. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/178087.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR>From above I think the argument can be made that TAPS is indeed an "adjustable wake system" or in your words a TAWS! <BR> <BR>Again I am NOT bashing the Malibu at all. I am sure Brian would be happy with either boat, I know I would be. Try both and go with what your heart tells you. <BR> <BR>I can tell you I have owned my Tige' 22I for 14 months now and have 140 hours on it. I have been very happy with the quality from the ground up.

bigj 07-09-2004 12:57 PM

Frenchy, Spoken like a true Tige owner. You are correct, Tige has a great marketing department. You obviosly bought into it, I bet you bought the wood is good argument too. Oh yeah, That was last year. <BR> <BR> Taps does not increase the draft of the boat to actually make the wakes bigger. Yes it will change the attitude of the front of the boat. (Bow up or bow down)But we all know that you need to get the boat deeper into the water to increase wake size. <BR> <BR>Again I am not bashing the Tige at all,I am sure some people will be totally happy with that boat. <BR>

rkg 07-09-2004 1:31 PM

Those who believe will, those who do not never will, regardless of what evidence is provided. <BR> <BR>I have heard bad things about the wedge too, but I am not inclined to argue about it. <BR> <BR>Buying a boat all boils down to personal preference. I like TAPS. I do not like the Wedge. I know several Malibu owners who opt away from the Wedge and add more ballast due to the handling with the Wedge down. <BR> <BR>That's the first time I have heard the wood thing in a while. Thank God they switched so that became a moot point...... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by rkg on July 09, 2004)

rock_n_boardin 07-09-2004 1:40 PM

"Taps does not increase the draft of the boat to actually make the wakes bigger." <BR> <BR>Nope but the Convex Hull keeps the draft in the rear of the boat from rising up at speed. In other words with the Convex Hull and the Taps set on wakeboard setting it acts a lot like a Malibu with the Wedge down. <BR> <BR>Two different approaches getting the same basic result. The difference is the Tige is down and stays down. The Malibu is up and is pushed down.... On the Tige' you use the Taps to pull it up. The Malibu you release the Wedge and it settles back to normal. <BR> <BR>It's like we want to move something, you want to pull it to it's destination. I want to push it there. Guess what? We will both have the same end result. <BR> <BR>Is one better than the other? That is Brian's call after he has taken both for a spin. <BR> <BR>Now if you want to compare both boats with 2500 pounds in them. You will have a whole new argument. At that point I use the Taps to shape the wake and it is usually barely engaged. <BR> <BR>

rock_n_boardin 07-09-2004 1:56 PM

"Frenchy, Spoken like a true Tige owner." <BR> <BR>BTW I think you will notice that I have not once bashed the other choice. If I had than your little quote might hold some water. <BR> <BR>I really wonder who is qualified to give their opinion about a certain make of boat? Yeah I'm sure you would agree someone who owns one and spent 140 hours operating one and not someone that not only does not own one, but probably has never even been in one.

bigj 07-09-2004 2:24 PM

FYI Frenchy, <BR> <BR>2004 Wakesetter 23 LSV <BR>111.2 hours in 5 1/2 mos. <BR> <BR>887 post's. While your posting, I'm riding. <BR> <BR> <BR>

thekuz 07-09-2004 2:37 PM

I have been watching these posts for about a year now. The one boat that seems to get put down by owners of the "Big Three" companies is Tige. Number one, I don't believe many of these posters have been behind a Tige. Number two, I believe owners of MC, CC, BU are a little fearful of Tige's direction. They seem to be the only company that truly listens to the owners and makes innovative, unique changes to the boats. I think MC, CC, BU are incredible boats. But for me, Tige had what I was looking for in a large boat. My friend has a CC and my brother has a BU. I really like those boats. Interestingly, whenever we go out together, we always seem to end up on my boat. Hmmmmm.......... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by thekuz on July 09, 2004)

fox 07-09-2004 2:38 PM

Hey Bill, <BR> <BR>I don't think you get what goes on under the TIGE. It's clear that you are a Malibu disciple and there is nothing wrong with that. But putting the bow in the water is a good thing: But we all know that you need to get the boat deeper into the water to increase wake size -Billj. You can't just put the transom deep in the water, the whole boat needs to sink down in order to get good shape. That's why those of us who use sacs to sink our boats put at least one up front. <BR> <BR>Eric

rock_n_boardin 07-09-2004 3:13 PM

Must have struck a nerve! Sorry Bill. <BR> <BR>At the rate you're going you will have 887 posts before you know it! LOL Welcome to the club Big J!! <BR> <BR>Sorry for the hijack everybody and Bill nothing personal I just felt there was some ignorant bashing going on. Not necessarily by you.

rock_n_boardin 07-09-2004 3:19 PM

Hey Tom, <BR> <BR>you head out to Perris? I have not been there for years. But I would love to meet you out there sometime to check out your 24V. Let me know when you plan on heading out again!

bobbrock 07-09-2004 11:02 PM

I have the 23 lsv and love it. We added antoher 650 in lead in the back and run with the wedge down. I came from a 2000 x-star. This boat handles awesome, even when weighted. The wedge does not make the boat handle much different. Last weeekend we had a pro rider with us and he mentioned he did not like the wedge because of all the usual things we read hear. He changed his mind after being on our boat. He could not believe that he did notice a difference with driving the boat with the wedge up or down. He said in different models the wedge made a huge difference in how it drove. He also liked the kicker the wedge created. <BR> <BR>I love all the space and how it handles rough water. Weighted I can turn it almost back in its own wake. I could not even dream about doing that with my x-star. <BR> <BR>Anyway, it is a great boat and I am very happy with my decision.

deuce 07-11-2004 7:46 AM

Brain, <BR>There is an '04 LSV with the 8.1 in the paper today. It may be worth a call and look. <BR> <BR>ShaRee, <BR>I cannot say enough good things about Taylor's Boats up North here. Very good people. If you stay in Utah, make a point of giving them a call. I am on my second boat with Taylor's. Pure and simple, Taylor's Boats is the reason I have a SAN. <BR> <BR>E.J.

bross 07-11-2004 10:52 PM

The dealership is selling it. They claim that the people who were supposed to buy it changed their mind after using it for 15 hours because they didn't like the black hull. They originally picked the color themselves and have not put an order in for a new Malibu. Sounds funky to me. I like Taylors Boats, but they jack their prices up so high that I don't truly trust them. When we went to buy our first boat we were looking at the Cobalt 21'. They said that if we bought the boat that day they would drop the price almost 10,000 off of the price they originally quoted us with. I wasn't too sure how I felt about them making an extra 10,000 off me for pure profit. I understand business and economics, but they mark all of their boats up so high that I can't trust them. Taylor does do a lot for the wakeboarding scene but he also runs into finnancial problems every year because of it. Thanks for the heads up on the paper. Your SAN picture is preety sweet. That would be my boat of choice if price, storage, and the chanel at Lake Powell were not issues I had to consider. Thanks.

ihatetubers 07-12-2004 2:06 AM

not a professional response like the rest of these guys just a fellow riders.. Me and some friends were out on the lake with this girls 24v and a gas card that her daddy left over the weekend with her......it was heaven.... we weighted the hell out of that boat <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> we just got a like 4 giant black trash bags and started shoveling sand into them from the shore the total weight was unknown plus we had about 7 people in the boat and it had a nice wake, very rampy but not to tall it was weird, and we were messing with the taps while we were driving, i dont know if thats good or not to do but we just wanted to see what would happen and the wake actually started to curl over and did not get any bigger just curled and the boat started to porpus, like bouncing up and down and we were on glass all day so we just turned it off. i think the whole taps nonsense thing is a waste and doesnt really work thats just my 2 cents though.

ihatetubers 07-12-2004 2:11 AM

o yea and at the end of the day the boat decided not to start at the whole other side of the lake.... turns out a connection with the battery came loose or something, pretty lame. i dont like the tiges go with malibu.

deuce 07-12-2004 7:09 AM

I agree that you have to be comfortable with your dealer Brian. If you don't feel good at Taylor's....better go somewhere else. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, I have been very happy with my experience at Taylor's and cannot recommend them enough to others. <BR> <BR>E.J.

dgutz84 07-30-2004 2:46 PM

If you are looking for weight, keep in mind that the 24V weighs 700 more lbs than the malibu, which is all in almost twice as thick of fiberglass. I thought I would throw that out there because it equals a smoother ride and more weight without the ballast. Not to mention that with the ConvexV and theTAPS system you are able to adjust the wake to whatever height you want. TAPS up and the boat makes a massive wake, taps down and the boat gets up and maneuvers like a slalom boat. This is all at the push of a button while you are driving. I thought I would just throw that out there because I love my 24V. My suggestion is to go on a dealer demo and find out for yourself. I'll shut up now.

davidhoffman 07-30-2004 3:12 PM

I've ridden behind both the 24V and the 23LSV and I thought the wake was pretty similar. Both of them were pretty wide and somewhat rampy. The Tige was is a little bit harder than the Malibu wake is. I like both boats and we ended up with a 22V. The one thing is that I've seen stories about wedges hitting submerged objects and tearing off the whole transom. Taps is up and away from hitting anything that would be able to hit the bottom of the boat. Taps is more for the shape while the wedge is simulating extra weight.

buluver 07-30-2004 3:57 PM

Just to throw fuel on the fire. The wedge does not hang down any lower than the prop. If you hit something your prop would get hit as well as the wedge. As far as tearing the whole transom off, well I don't think so. I have heard the story too but with all the malibu's sold with the wedge if there was a real problem then you would really hear it. I also owned a Tige before I went to Malibu and well I won't say anything more than to sayit was brand new, I had it for 6 months and took a big loss to get the BU


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