OK, I know this post will probably start a war, but I am truly not trying to do so. <BR> <BR>Here is my situation: I have great dealers for both MC and 'Bu, with the Bu dealer perhaps getting the nod because of more personal attention (smaller dealer). <BR>I plan on water testing the 247 ASAP, once he has one available. I have tested an 05 X-45, but I look forward to demo'ing an '08. <BR>I can order a new X45 to my liking and take it or leave it once it comes in as they are placing stock orders anyway. <BR>Here are my specific questions: <BR>1. Mastercraft: I am at 3000 ft. above sea level so I plan on ordering the 8.1 liter in either boat. Handling of the earlier X45's I drove was horrible. Has this been remedied in the newer models? Also, there seem to be quite a few posts related to tower shake on the MC. Is this remedied as well? I do like the fit and finish of the MC (crawled all over an 07 last weekend), does it function as good as it looks? The swivel board racks were the best I have seen-period! How is the overall functionality of the X-45 for a multi-sport family? We have 4 kids between the ages of 8 and 13, so we participate in nearly ALL things water related! <BR>2. Malibu: Fit and finish seems good, but I haven't inspected one with a microscope-yet. How do they hold up? Are there any build/rigging issues? I do like the Illusion tower mostly because of the fact that it does not obstruct your field of vision. I also like the fact that Malibu offers the color combo I like (purple/silver/black- it's a K-state thing sorry). <BR> <BR>Which boat has the better surf wake? I have seen some pics of huge wakes on the 247, but can the X45 compete if properly weighted? <BR> <BR>I'm guessing the MC will be 10-15% higher intially, but I expect the resale to make up for this a few years down the road. <BR> <BR>Any comments/suggestions on things to look for? Opinions?? <BR> <BR>thanks for the help, please no bashing, I'm just trying to figure out what will best suit me and my family for the next several years.

You will be fine with either boat. I have seen huge surf wakes from both boats. It really is going to come down to the details. How bad do you want the purple/silver/black color scheme? The illusion tower is nice. As far as a family multi-sport I think a 247 will be a little more friendly just by a nose. The x-45 is a sweet boat though. Good luck.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

Thanks Jeff. I agree wither boat will be great. I like the larger area up front in the MC, but then again, you house the population of a small third world country in the cockpit of a 247! The purple is not a big deal, and in fact the MC colors are a bit more "timeless" in their design, I think.

either boat is nice.... I suggest test drive them both and make your decision after test driving them. What feels best to you and has the most things you are looking for in a boat. As far as the MC tower shake, yes the fix should come with the new 08 towers already installed. <BR> <BR>You are the one that will be buying the boat so choose on your criteria. Everyone here has their own criteria and brand loyalty so you may get biased opinions. Dealers are a huge part of the decision so if you have both near by then go with what works best for you.

I don’t know when, if ever, I will be in the market for another inboard. But I have to admit that I have pickle fork, bow ladder entry, envy. <BR> <BR>Because we do a lot of lounging, hanging out with friends tied up ect. Having another access point into the boat and/or another place for the ladies to take care of business, would be a big factor for me. <BR> <BR>Assuming that with the 4 kids that age, you are taking your kids friends out from time to time(or all the time) as well. Again, access points….. Though when I think about taking all those kids, you probably never sit…. I do not envy your gas bill…..<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>I have not been in either boat on the water and thus have absolutely no input related to the “on the water” stuff. <BR> <BR>In the end, fun decision to have to make…..

You still want purple after last weekend? <BR> <BR>I bet you could get a Mastercraft in Blue and Red. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

I have been in the x45 and it rides well and seats a lot of people!! It throws a big wake. I have the pickle fork and love its usefullness and wouldn't buy another boat without it. It is a big boat to trailer at 5000# 24' + boat. <BR> <BR>some feedback

water freak: Agreed. I was hoping to find someone that either has owned both to find out why, or someone that has extensive experience working on both to advise me of things to look for, etc. <BR>As mentioned I have good dealers for both, that'w what makes it so difficult. Also, Im not close to either one, so spending hours crawling around on either boat is not real convenient. <BR>So in addition to spending some limited time on both boats, I am hoping for some valuable info from this forum, realizing I'll have to sort through the usual "my boat is better than yours" BS.

Jon: The purle may be fading, but it still runs deep!! <BR>Blue and red? Not if my life depended on it!! <BR> <BR>E.J.: I didn't mention it, but the ladder and front access is one of the main selling points for the MC for me. Every time we stop, even for a second, all the kids ask immediately: "Can we bail??!!". Then the process of reloading them while said boarder is getting ready begins. What fun.

Both are world class boats. Get the one that you like after a few test drives boarding and surfing. <BR> <BR>Here is a 247 surf wake(about 2000 pounds and wedge): <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510070.jpg" alt="Upload">

The tower braces and new prop are amazing additions for the newer 45's. I have one. If you have any specific questions, let me know. You can search the surfing section for many pics of my boat throwing a great surf wave. Good luck.

I was in your same spot a few years ago, actually spring '06. There was a lengthy thread on here of my experiences, I'm sure you could find it from about April of 2006 (+ or - a month). <BR>I did demo both boats, loved them both. They both have their strengths, not many weaknesses. As I said in that post, I decided on the 247 due to the large cockpit area. We live in Denver and it is often chilly early/late season riding, so we don't even take the bow cover off. The kids crawl up there under it with a heater and hang out. We had two more heater lines installed by our dealer, so there is plenty of warmth in the cockpit area. <BR>I can see how the picklefork would be nice with that front ladder, but we haven't ever had to really "wait" for the crew to get back on board anyways.... <BR>The illusion x has been nice, low obstruction and you can get just about any speaker, rack, mirror gadget to bolt onto it easily. It is pretty stable, but I have seen mine shudder a little in the windy afternoons on Lake Powell. We have an extended bimini (which works very well) four racks, including a heavy sky ski, a mirror, and a pair of NVS Addictions hanging from it, so that has to add some weight. <BR>As far as the boat quiality and reliability...no issues whatsover. We have a great dealer here, so I think the dealer should be a big part of your decision. We have the regular 3 ballast tanks as well as the bow tank. The only one ever use is the bow tank, due to the lack of people up there and a good spot for more weight. The wake is huge with a full tank of gas and the front ballast full. I am by no means on the pro tour, but have ridden behind the X-Star and a handful of other boats. The 247 is as good or better than those I have tried. Surf wake is amazing. <BR>I think the X45 is a great boat, but I have absolutely no regrets with my decision. <BR>Happy to answer any specific questions about the 247.

demo demo demo...try to line up a back to back demo where you can bascially hop off one boat and onto the other. That way you can see exactly how each boat handles on the water and also how each swallows up all of your crew's gear. There's a lot of little things here and there that may seem little, yet can be a deal breaker in the end. <BR> <BR>Also, have you looked into re-propping your boat for the altitude?

re-propping is always an option, but with a heavy boat such as these two, I'm thinking big motor AND a prop change if necessary. Can't have too much power, it's not possible.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>festivus: I remember the thread, and I will search again to refresh my memory. I am a bit torm on the cockpit area, as the kids love it up there when it's warm. However, as you know (I'm only 50 miles from the Colorado border into Ks), it's not that warm for that much of the year. I appreciate your comments as first hand ownership issues (both good and bad) are exactly what I am looking for. <BR>Who is your dealer there? I am exactly halfway between Denver and Wichita, so I could actually use either dealer and the Denver dealers would definitely have the edge in setting up for the altitude! <BR>Thanks

I second Fest's opinion. I was also looking at both boats, but the (good) dealer was the deciding factor. I love the boat! <BR> <BR>Since most boat owners tell you nothing but good things about their boats, I will give you the things I don't like. <BR> <BR>1) Eats oil, but I will be switching to heavier oil that is supposed to fix that. <BR> <BR>2) The Malibu 'bling' in the gunnels rattles <BR> <BR>3) Stereo location - only the driver can mess with it unless you get the hard-wired remote(locks you into low level stereo choices) <BR> <BR>4) No real place to sit when you put the board on. <BR> <BR>5) Tower has a little side-to-side motion on big chop... most boats do though. <BR> <BR>I really do love the boat! <BR> <BR>Some cool stuff- <BR> <BR>1) Cooler(s) <BR>2) Cup holders <BR>3) Gauges <BR>4) Lighting <BR>5) Power (motor) <BR>6) Wake <BR> <BR>Notice how the cooler comes first? That's actually a bitg thing my wife liked.

Hey rich lets see some more pics of that surf wake-maybe one with the boat in it as well

good points Hugh--- <BR>I put in a hard wired remote in the back of the transom along with the entire after-factory sound system. The factory spot for the head unit is sort of brutal... <BR>I haven't used any oil... At least not a noticeable amount. I have the 8.1, don't know if that matters though. Our local lakes are all at about 5500ft, so we definitely had to change the prop, even with the 8.1L. Made a huge difference. We pulled the boat out to Missouri last summer and the change in altitude was HUGE. <BR>John- the dealer in Denver is Tommy's. I think they have had a lot of sales people turn-over, but the service guys are the same, they take care of me and my brother, who also owns a 'bu. So far we have done nothing but regular scheduled maint. <BR>oh, and here's a surf wake pic. We had probably 6 kids and 6 adults in the boat, stock ballast. We tweaked it out so the peak was a little smoother, but I think you can see that it gets tall. The woman is about 5'9 and not anywhere near the sweet spot...... <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510221.jpg" alt="Upload">

more..<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510310.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510311.jpg" alt="Upload">

Hugh: Excellent post and that is some valuable information! Most of these threads get out of hand with people bashing or saying that their brand is the only one, but it's refreshing to hear some honest criticism of a boat that you own! They all have their little issues. <BR>I looked at a brand new '07 X-45 that had all the lenses on the guages broken. Factory defect, being replaced under warranty, no big deal.

I rode in an 2007 X-45 recently and it seemed very difficult to get a clean wake unless you went 23MPH. With young children, I would worry that an 8 year old is going to be unhappy going 23MPH on a wakeboard. <BR> <BR>The fit and finish was stellar. The tower was rock solid. I loved the board racks. The drive was very good for a boat of its size. Very comfortable interior.

What does an 8 year old care about a decent wake? Decent wake doesn't come into play until your a decent rider that likes to go big.

I would also add the wake would probably be a little better at slower speeds if you don't fill the ballast. I taught wakeboarding at a resort and we rarely filled the ballast because most of the riders could barely get up. <BR> <BR>I am a huge fan of the X-45. I have never owned/or could afford one but i've had numerous opportunities to ride behind and spend the day on them. I think some of the positives of the boat are. <BR>1. Incredible storage- It's so deep and all one top deck <BR>2. Bow space- I know it's already been touched on but with the pickle fork there's so much room <BR>3. Rough water ride- I have been on some huge lakes with 3 foot waves and been very happy with how it handles the rough stuff. I'm not sure where you are going to boat, but if the lake gets rough the X-45 rocks! <BR> <BR>Good luck with your purchase.

Stevo, <BR>tell your boss to give you a raise so you can get out of that PS190 and into a X45. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR>I gotta tell you I have been a X45 in the Gulf of Mexico when it was pretty rough, and it was a very soft comfy ride. Very solid as well no rattles or bone jarring hits that sounds like you just busted a stringer or something. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by woreout on October 11, 2007)

waterfreak: I think what talltigeguy is saying is not that an 8 year old needs a BIG wake, but that learning to go wake to wake at 18mph on a CLEAN wake would be better than being required to go 23 mph just for a clean wake. <BR>Stevo: I agree with your points, but I haven't been able to test the rough water ride yet. <BR> <BR>Just like talltigeguy, one of themost impressive thing I have seen on the X-45 were the swivel board racks. I don't know how well they function long term, but the design and construction was awesome. <BR> <BR>Thanks all for the comments, and please keep them coming.

Bu has them also, they are called the titan spinner rack. It also detaches very easy so no one steals your crap. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510564.jpg" alt="Upload">

How does it detach? I have Titan Spinners and I don't think they detach.

I could be mistaken about the model but you need this kit: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeside.com/page/w/PROD/titan_wakeboard_racks/titan_lift_off_kit" target="_blank">http://www.wakeside.com/page/w/PROD/titan_wakeboard_racks/titan_lift_off_kit</a>

Billy, <BR> <BR>The raise would be to add the X-45 along with the PS 190. I have a long way to go! <BR> <BR>John- the swivel board racks are awesome, they last and are well thought out. I have toured the plant where the board racks are manufactured and it's pretty incredible the detail that is put into them. Another great thing about the swivel racks is you can put your boards inside the tower when you are coming into docks and boat lifts. So you don't catch your boards and the racks on dock polls and boat lifts. <BR> <BR>Would the rough water ride be important to your boating or are you on a smaller body of water?

Stevo: <BR>Rough water ride is critical! Out here in western kansas the wind blows all the time, although our lake is not that large, I regularly see 2-4 footers on the way to the coves. <BR>When I tested a X45, we were on a small lake with nothing but our own wake to test ride, but it seemed to have a good ride over those. <BR>I would assume that the 247 would be large enough to have a good ride as well, but I have not been able to test one...yet.

Yeah the 247 handles chop like a champ. You don't get beat to crap or take any diggers into the whitecaps. <BR> <BR>DEMO DEMO DEMO

Rich: <BR>The demo will, of course, be the ultimate deciding factor! <BR>Trying to arm yourself with the knowledge of other's experiences can surely help as well. <BR> <BR>I have already learned of several things to look for on each particular model, both here, and in person. Every boat has their little quirks, just trying to find some real life experiences from actual 247 and x45 owners. There aren't many around here!!

john, what lake in w kansas.

insuranceman: <BR> <BR>Primarily Cedar Bluff near Hays,(we have a place there) Ks. and Wilson. We also go to LOTO, Table Rock, and anywhere else that sounds fun.

wilson, that lake brings back memories.

Me too. When I was a pup, the girlfriend and I floated in a little inflatable boat over to the caves across from Campbell's Marina and....well, the rest is a fond memory! <BR>I sure hope my kids turn act better than I did when I was 17!!! <BR>Cursed DNA, it probably won't happen.

John- <BR> <BR>Make sure that you get to demo the X 45 with the upgraded prop. I just changed out my prop on mine, and it is a WORLD of difference for that boat. <BR> <BR>Besides, who cares about the wake and fit and finish. How bout that push button auto flag... <BR> <BR>JK <BR> <BR>I also posted one of my surfboard racks... <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510879.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510880.jpg" alt="Upload">

Looks like the inland surfer blue....sweet rack! <BR> <BR>(Message edited by SummerObsession on October 12, 2007)

I have very few pics of the surf wave on this computer. ALthough, they are all on the goofy side, which isn't as clean. Our last trip we got it dialed in pretty well and were surfing about 20 feet behind the boat. The Port side is monsterous and perfect glass like those 247 shots, but my crew is all goofy. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510889.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510890.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/510891.jpg" alt="Upload">

Always get a prop at altitude. At 3000 ft. you are down 15% on power so even a 1" pitch drop does not make up for that.

The best thing about my surf setup is that it takes me 7 minutes to fill in all my sacs and get it all dialed in. Thats a pretty quick turnover. <BR> <BR>One thing you really need to consider, and its been mentioned before is the dealer. Who do you like better? Who is more professional? Whose shop looks organized and dialed? There is nothing worse than spending 100k on a boat and not having the availability or expertise to troubleshoot. That being said, I have not had one problem with my 45 and I've owned it for a year. <BR> <BR>The 247 is a great boat. No question. It just wasn't for me for various reasons. <BR> <BR>You're looking at the finest stuff here. You're lucky. Go with your gut after you demo. It will treat you right at the end of the day. AND POST PICS ONCE you have the new boat.

Ben, <BR> <BR>What kind of setup do you have?

Ben: <BR>thanks for the info and great shots of your boat. I like the speaker covers on your tower speakers. When looking at a new X-45, one of the things I found odd was the use of cheap plastic grill covers in such a high end boat. Were those an option or an add-on? <BR>As far as dealers go, I have visited with two in Wichita and one in denver. All three seem to be interested in service as well as a sale, but I guess you never really know until you are a customer. <BR>Once we decide on which boat we want for sertain, then it will have to come down to the dealers. <BR>Again, thanks for the info, and let me know if you can think of anything else to look/watch out for initially on the X-45.

Put the two side by side in 5 years. I work on Mastercraft and Malibus for a living and I've seen both abused and both taken care of. The MC for the money is your best bet.

Those speaker grills are machined and they are a pretty expensive option. A friend has them on his x-star I believe about $1500

I just got some pics of a new X45 in Denver...I'm going to have to go checki it out (and Demo, of course). It is a beautiful machine, for sure. I did have them check on the speaker grills, WAY less than 1500, at least on a new boat purchase. <BR>Jeremy: Thanks for posting, the opinions of someone who works on both brands on a daily basis is invaluable! <BR>Ben: Shoot me an e-mail when you get a chance...I have a few quick questions for you, thanks!