Always a fun debate. <BR> <BR>I like 2 strokes much better for a number of reasons, but I don't bash on the 4's like some 2 stroke fans do. I think 2 strokes still have a future, especially since KTM is supposed to be releasing a direct injection 2 stroke. <BR> <BR>What do you guys think? I wonder what would happen if you put one of the SX riders in a main with a 2t? That would be interesting to watch.

as long as its = displacement it would be fun to watch. <BR> <BR>go here... <a href="http://twostrokemotocross.com/" target="_blank">http://twostrokemotocross.com/</a> <BR> <BR>BRAP!!!!!!!!!! <BR> <BR>"if you win on a 2T your a hero, if you lose, then just blame the bike"

Two strokes are super fun, plus they give you that sense of accomplishment. Ha, ha, ha.

2 stokes FTW. That being said, I've been on a 4 for the last 5 years.

love my 2 stroke, but I'll probably buy a 450R in a few months so that I can keep up with the competition on the track. Once I get bumped up to the next class, which will probably happen in the first couple of races, I'll be getting killed on my 2 stroke by the 450s. The 450R will make me smoother and probably a couple secs faster.

J-Rod, but you run the risk of becoming bored with a 4 stroke and may end up quiting riding....might consider that before you cross over!

For a non-moto guy, what are the main differences in how the 2 ride?

Powerband.

Handling and weight, especially rotating mass up high in the engine. <BR> <BR>I'm 2 stroke for life, but if I was actually competing in MX I would take advantage of the unfair displacement rules and go with a thumper.

Tracks I would say 4 stroke. From personal experience it just mad me a way smoother rider. As far as hill riding goes like up at carnegie its gets boring cause the 4 stroke has so much low end and pull that it makes it effortless. I think its fun to have to feather that clutch and every once in a while not make the hill so you can flip a 180 and bomb down the hill. <BR>But if I had to choose I would go 2 stroke all day long cause I ride ramps and the only guy that I've seen hit a ramp with a 4 stroke is metzger and I think it would be funky gettin used to another powerband like that for ramp riding.

I'm not crossing over. I need multiple tools in the shed! Now that I'm riding a lot of track. The 450 4 stroke is a must have. I've already had one. <BR> <BR>Eubanks, think of the 2 stroke as like a turbo motor. You only get power with the rpms high. Nothing down low, and then, once it revs up, all hell breaks loose. The 4 stroke has power in the low end, which means way more traction coming out of the turn.

Big bore 2-strokes are a whole different story.

I think if I do the 250sx to 300sx on my ktm I would have no problem keeping up with the 4's

Let the 250 2strokes in the supercross lites class against the 250 4stroke it would be a blood bath. A service honda cr 500 vs a 450 outdoors same result. If thumpers are better why the handycap?

Yeah, like an old-school turbo. Think Porsche 930. Absolutely nothing on the bottom and a screamer when the power hits. <BR> <BR>But, like was said, they're super light and rev really quick once they're in the power. Makes the bike feel very nimble, although, I've been very impressed with the new Honda 450. <BR> <BR>Trace... Nobody ever rides a big 2 stroke anymore. KTM's is the only player in the game making one. I was checking out a service honda 500 the other day on craigslist. At $4k it was a bargain. Man, that bike would be a ruthless climbing machine. <BR> <BR>Jarrod burnt his last 450 to the ground in short order. Ha, ha, ha. I'll be suprised if he gives up his 250/2 any time soon. That bike's been old faithful.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>Trace... Nobody ever rides a big 2 stroke anymore.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR>Good, more for me. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

Back in my day...............450 Maico. Not sure I could hold on to one now. That was when I was a young buck.

Been looking at bikes to ride with my son recently. At first I was thinking SM setup but quickly started getting away from that idea when I realized how doggy they are. Then I started looking at pure dirt 2s vs 4s. I haven't ridden a pure dirt 4s yet but a buddy let me ride his CR500 last week and I instantly fell back in love. I used to own a DG/FMF decked out CR500R back in the late eighties and loved it. Problem was I only weighed 150lbs and the bike was way too much for me to handle. Now that I run in the 200lb range It feels much easier to muscle around. It's a beast of a bike imo and still manages pucker my butt when I ride it. I see them going relatively cheap and parts seem to be pretty easy to get come by so I'll probably grab one here in the next couple months. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Seattle on January 21, 2010)

Ahha.... Cliff....you have seen the errors of your way and venture one step closer to the dirt. I told you the force was stong. <BR> <BR>Track or open fast dune riding... 4stroke! Single track or play riding... 2 stroke all the way. <BR> <BR>CR500 for play riding with the kid... not my first choice. Not trail friendly for NW wet weather riding... but super fun if you plan on rippen the dunes! Either way... got room in the trailer every weeked when you are ready to ride. <BR> <BR>KTM 300. Oh yeah!

"Good, more for me." You do have an epic bike <BR> <BR>Cliff, those service honda CR500AF's are nothing short of amazing. It's a big difference having that monster power plant in the new aluminum frames/suspension than the old. My dad was a CR500 rider, then went to a KTM 380exc, then a CRF450X, and now a KTM300 EXCW. He's ridden dirtbikes for over 35 years and says the KTM 300 is by far the most amazing bike he has ever riddin. Electric start 2 stroke!, wide ratio gears with a ton of torque, and really light. He hated the 450x in the trails. They're expensive bikes, but certainly worth a look.

dream machine <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/770283.jpg" alt="Upload">

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/770287.jpg" alt="Upload">

That is the coolest bike i have ever seen.

Building a CR500AF will probably be my next bike project after I clear out the two I have now. I've had my eye out for good donors for a couple years now. I had an '87 500 for a few months recently, but it turned out to be a little more worn out than I wanted. Still a blast to ride, and that old steelie frame with the raked front end was really stable in sand. <BR> <BR>Four strokes have other advantages in MX (smoothness, displacement handicap), but most good singletrack riders are going to prefer a two stroke. Two stroke powerbands are all about clutch control. You can be much lazier and unskilled with the clutch on a thumper. Once you learn it, it becomes an advantage because you can apply a lot of power quickly to pop over logs and ledges and such. Smokers are also more nimble and less tiring to throw around for a few hours than a thumper.

Siiiick!! <BR> <BR>I agree with everything Trace said. And Evan is right. I'll never get rid of my CR250R

Can someone explain Service Honda to me. I'm not in the loop?

Trace, sounds like a fun project. Service Honda sells 2001 New cr500 engines, but the price is ridiculous at 6199.00. I'll keep my eye out if I see a good 500 for ya.

That all black bike is rediculous. So sick. <BR> <BR>Service honda is an aftermarket company that, among other things, takes late model aluminum 4 stroke frames and wedges early 250 and 500 2-stroke motors in. The best of all worlds. Late model suspension and frame. Early 2-stroke motors. <BR> <BR>With the exception of KTM 2 stroke technology has been dead since '01-'02 ish.

^^^yup Service Honda bought all the CR500 motors from Honda that didn't get used. They have some used ones for sale. <a href="http://www.servicehonda.com/pre-owned-bikes" target="_blank">http://www.servicehonda.com/pre-owned-bikes</a> <BR> <BR>Evan, it was a bit later than that. Yamaha updated the YZ250 until 06

Thanks guys, <BR> <BR>Love the idea of an SA but those things ain't cheap!

Yamaha makes dirt bikes? I thought it was only Honda and KTM. LOL! <BR> <BR>Yeah, I guess it's different for different companies. AFAIK, Honda's last update was '03 and you could buy new bikes all the way through '09. You're right on with Yamaha. I think Kawi and Suzuki jumped ship first. I don't think they ever made aluminum frame 2-strokes. Am I right? I'm a little off the gas on the other companies. Really only on top of the Honda's. I love my '01 still.

Cliff, there are two listed in the bay area right now for less than $5k. Soooo sweet.

it takes me four strokes most of the time, but if Im excited, it only takes two.

Service Honda - CR 500 R motor in a AL frame. My brother had one. More bike than anyone needs. I am a long time rider of big bore 2 strokes. And by far the Service Hondas was a beast. I will always be a die hard 2 stroke fan. But after owning a 450r they are hard to beat. Low end grunt, superior handling and great roll on power. If you can hold on it will ride you through anything.

true a 450 will get you out of more trouble than it will get you into. but there is no wow factor with them. i am by far slower on the 2t and thats why i race 450's. i have a few goals i want to reach with racing mx and ax over the next couple years than i will go back to a full time 2t mxer.