Over the winter, with all the boat shows running, and everyone anticipating Spring, there was alot of noise about a new boat with huge amount of wake. Earlier this year, there were countless amounts of threads with people wondering about this boat, or expressing there opinion about it from the shows. Now that the riding season is upon us, who out there has driven / ridden behind this boat. I am get an opportunity later this month to check out this ride. But I am trying to re-ignite the interest in this boat. Hopefully there are individuals who have experienced this boat first hand! What is your opinion driving / riding?

wake was huge. but what wake wouldn't be with 4000lbs of ballast, but its all hidden under the floor. a lot of room inside and I liked the floor. the engine gets the boat moving pretty quick. for the price you can get a supra fully loaded and have all the bling and a better (in my opinion) fit and finish. not to mention a dealership to work on it.

I have heard through the rumor mill that they have sold 1-2 boats, you saw the pirate edition. That's one of them. Someone correct me if I am misinformed. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

yes slipknot, you're misinformed. we've actually sold most of the boats we've made. and the future is looking bright! <BR> <BR>if you're not doing anything this saturday, drive on up to lake elsinore. there will be an epic at the canyon lake tournament.

WOW! Now that's a response and great to hear, congratulations! Really glad its lookin good for EPIC. Is EPIC pulling the event or is MB? We are hoping to be there, are you gonna ride the contest as well? Rumors are what they are rumors. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess the question is, have you made more than two boats? <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Just kidding Joe.

Have any of the PRO's endorsed or been given a sponsorship with Epic yet?

slipknot, not sure yet if i'm going to ride, but the whole epic team (with the exception of reed watson who will be at the byerly toe jam) will be at the canyon lake tournament. as for epic pulling the event, that's the plan! <BR> <BR>paul, why i oughta!!!!!!!!!! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>yes, we've made WAY more than 2 boats. <BR> <BR>sean, yes, epic has a strong team in jimmy wolf, jaret brantley, reed watson and the hoffman sisters, raequel and shawna. and we're STILL growing! stay tuned... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by dakid on June 08, 2007)

Epic is also building boats in Summerland BC through another company. I was talking to a guy that was out on one of the boats last weekend.

Epic was out at the CIE Spring Ride in full effect. Boats, crew, team riders. I've gotta say that they are doing a great job smoothing the rough edges. The boats are coming along great. They still need to be quieter, but I dig everything else about them. <BR> <BR>The wake.... Well, it's like a mini Tsunami. Not my favorite right now, but I could grow to love it. If you like SAN's then you'll love this wake. If you're an X-star kinda guy/girl (which I happen to be right now), then it'll be a bit steep and without a ton of transition. No one can argue, though..... It's got major boots. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by guido on June 08, 2007)

How many times does the Epic have to stop and get gas during a tourny?

epic has a 55 gallon gas tank, so not too often.

With 4000 #'s of boat ballast plus boat weight and a big block how long does that 55 gallon tank last Joe?

What is the news on building a smaller boat? Is that still in the works and when if ever will we start seeing it?

well, at the spring ride, we filled up before we got to tulloch. we gave a ton of demos to people all weekend and only had to refill once. i realize that it's not like a tournament, but i'd say that's pretty good. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by dakid on June 08, 2007)

Epic should take the old nautique 2001 hull, make it a Vdrive, and add 2000lbs of interal ballast. That would be a sick boat.

Joe ~~ Congrats again on the position with Epic. I have been on the boat when it was in it's early stages and loved the lay out of it. It had some ballast tank problems and the weather sucked so I did not get to test out the wake. Joe bring one back to Utah sometime!

I saw one at riverpoint marina on memorail day weekend, that is one of the sickest looking boats ive ever seen up close! first time id actually seen one up close. what a sweet looking boat! Id love to ride in one!

So Joe....What is the Number of boats produced (in numerical value)?

There is a group of locals that just bought a brand new Epic... Sad to say.. it has been in the shop... more than on the water... Had a good chat about it... they are not very happy that they are having so many problems. Way louder than normal. No Power. Dead battery every time they have hit the water. <BR> <BR>Honestly... I have to say... I love the concept of the Epic.. they set out to build a boat that would produce the biggest stock wake.. I feel they have done that... they also set out to do that at $50,000usd.. well due to rising costs.. they are much higher than that now... It was also going to have the PCM ZR6 motor... but then was changed to the 8.1L Volvo... seemingly Volvos's first attempt at the tournament wakeboard boat market.. well I know what there have been 3-4 blown up motors already... if I were an owner... I would be a little concerned with that. <BR> <BR>It would have been nice for Epic to continue pursuing the PCM motor.. or any of the more well known motors known to the wakeboard market. Also, in our area... there aren't any recognized dealers/mechanics. <BR> <BR>Fit/finish and quality workmanship appears to be the general consensus when reading the message boards... This is consistent with most new companies... always improving things as a new boat goes out the door. <BR> <BR>If I were the company... I would rather see the problems happen in the hands of the manufacturer.. not in my buyers hands. This must be frusterating to the new owner have their boat be in the shop more that on the lake. <BR> <BR>Talking to other manufacturers.. they all have issues of their own... but they are able to overcome some of the minor issues because of the dealer network etc. <BR> <BR>Being a finance guy I figure it is important to allocate your operating capital in the most efficient and important areas. <BR> <BR>My opinion... there is no question that the EPIC speaks for itself... so signing riders/teams etc seems unneccessary at this point. <BR> <BR>Putting those funds into "perfecting" the boat... fit/finish, mechanical... etc.... would be far more valuable. <BR> <BR>Process... after the boat is built... water test.. water test... water test... water test.. and again... water test... it should leave with 100% confidence that it is in perfect running order... then spend marketing dollars by getting people in and out behind the boat. <BR> <BR>The Epic is a great boat... just get those fine little details straightened out!!!

I know Jimmy has needed to get his jumped at least once...<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

Kyle you say the same thing in every post about Epic. Why don't you just cut and paste? It would save you alot of time...

I was able to ride the boat last weekend with a couple Epic employees while moving my brother into Carlsbad. <BR> <BR>The interior really suprised me, they have come a long way, and will be able to compete with any company out there, in my opinion. Fit and finish has gotten a ton better since some of the old pictures I've seen. <BR> <BR>Wake is ridiculous. It has a great shape, and is ridable pretty much as far back as I wanted to go (85 at the time). However, I had to ride in super chop conditions, so that sucked...but I was still really impressed. <BR> <BR>Boat turns on a dime, and is very quick to plane. It's not as deep inside as I was used to (tige) but I would imagine it is due to the massive amount of ballast. <BR> <BR>Overall, sick boat, definitely on the list when I get a good job and some cash.

Yup, what Garret said..... <BR> <BR>There will be a ton of speculation until more boats get out and more people have a chance to ride behind and in them. <BR> <BR>In my experience the boats are progressing very quickly. The boats I saw at Spring Ride were nothing like the early production boats. I'm looking forward to getting another pull behind and Epic soon.

The two I saw at Spring Ride reminded me of a K5 Blazer. Fit and finish is comfortable but not overdone, you can pretty much hose out the interior (the K5 I had), it sounds like a bat outta hell underway, and it gets the job done. Serious machine set on performing without all the bling you don't really need. I like that. <BR>I also like RangeRovers and XStars. I guess it's all in preference.

I looked at one of the early boats, looked like it had a lot of potential with some rough edges. I like the K% analogy, that's my kind of machine. <BR> <BR>Are the ballast intakes still on the transom? <BR> <BR>What's the verdict on the dual rudders (Vector Steering™)? Gimmick or no? <BR> <BR>I've heard "it's really loud" since its introduction - fix that! <BR> <BR>I wish them a the best of luck, love to see privateers make it in a competitive market.

Add FAE, that will make the engine more quite.

Boat was out of the shop and back on the water today... Seems like the water wasn't blown... changed a whole host of other things and now has the power and pull it is suppose to have. Rumor is they are trying some other motors now... Will be interesting to see if there is any performance difference with the new motor they may be trying out.

We have had almost FOUR no shows on an Epic at different events, I am SO stoked to check one out but the rough edges seem, well, rough.

Joe- What new things do you guys have in mind for next year. More interior stuff?

i thought the hoffmans rode for supra??

Fatsac, The reason you have fond memories of your K5 is because it was down &amp; dirty, &amp; got the job done. <BR> No frills, down &amp; dirty is what Epic seems to be. maybe if they started "customizing" them for customers, ie "Pirate Ship" , "Flames", "Diamond plate"..... something so they dont just look like "wake bayliners" I wouldnt mind shelling out 50+k for one. BTW Fatsac, is your 4runner an 05 or an 06??? <BR>You might need an American V8 to pull an Epic

Actually with the ballast empty they only way 3000#

Marc... no frills or gimmics??? Epic has lots of little extras... 8.1L motor, dual rudder (vector steering), transom audio, swivel board racks etc.... The trailer has LED lighting, spare tire, aluminum mags, boat buddy. <BR> <BR>I don't know how they compare in the US... but in this area... they are wanting $80,000cdn... <BR> <BR>So at that price you can buy any boat you want. X-Star, SAN, Wakesetter, RZ2, SSV, Liquid Ride, WakeCraft etc etc etc... <BR> <BR>This is a great opportunity for a boat buyer to now have another option at the $70-$80,000 price range.

^ That's the first time i have heard of Liquid Ride.

Never head of them <BR><a href="http://www.liquidrideboats.com/" target="_blank">http://www.liquidrideboats.com/</a>

I like the flip over sun deck walk through on the Liquid Ride

Props to MB Sports and EPIC Boats for a great day out at the channel today for the CLWC event. <BR> <BR>The EPIC was EPIC! The wake is humongous and clean! Everyone was loving it! <BR> <BR>Thanks Joe and good seeing you again! I had to bolt to make a birthday party. I wish I could have watched the Hoffman girls rip it up. Post some pics later if you have a chance. <BR> <BR>g

ask and ye shall receive. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/460761.html?1181546349" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/460761.html?1181546349</a> <BR> <BR>glad you were able to stop by to say hi. as soon as we finalize the date for a demo, i'll let you know.

Joe, I saw this picture from the thread by your link. I think it's the reflection from the water...but I think having the boat below the rub rail gray with the top part white would compliment the gray/white interior. Just a thought. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/461129.jpg" alt="Upload">

That would be a sweet color combination... Grey hull with white deck. Stay tuned.. There is a red almost complete... Joe.. share some pics!!! <BR> <BR>I hope that one day Epic will try that faded/pearl effect like the prototype.

Hey, Epic reps: <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By trace (trace) on Friday, June 08, 2007 - 7:16 pm: <BR> <BR>Are the ballast intakes still on the transom? <BR> <BR>What's the verdict on the dual rudders (Vector Steering™)? Gimmick or no?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Trace ~ No gimmick at all. The boat is 3k and with 4k extra in ballast the boat still turns on a dime. I'm not sure on the intake. Maybe Joe or someone else can fill you in on that. <BR> <BR>If you get a chance, get a pull behind this boat. You will be really impressed.

Ballast intakes from my recollection are Pirahna Pumps. At the transom just above the trim tab.

Would be nice to have some other motor options. Does the ballast have to be full to have a good wake?

How long does it take for the ballast tanks to fill?

Ballast intakes are located just above the shape plate, they use seven Tsunami pumps, (one is a bilge) and it takes about ten to twelve minutes to fill 4k. The ballast most defianatly does not have to be full to have a nice wake, this really isn't any B.S. the Epic throws a better wake with no ballast the 90% of "wake boats" with stock internal filled. I know that sound ridicuolus but its the D.R.O.P zone hull, (Dynamic, Reduction, Of, Pressure) The wake w/o ballast is perfect for beginners, you can slow down to 18 MPH and you've got a beautiful wake. Swing by and see for you're self some time if anybody's ever in the Dallas area. Oh, and the best benefit of the Dual Rudders is that the boat drives really well even when loaded with 4K and a dozen people, thats one of the biggest difference with this boat, this thing is the "Super Duty" of boats!

4k is crazy weight. put 4k in any reputable wake boat and it will produce giant wakes....?? no?? <BR> <BR> <BR>its not rocket science.

I just hate how you can't please everybody! <BR> <BR> <BR>1st it was like....I don't want to fill sacs and now I hear,every boat with 4000lbs will have a huge wake.This is true but once you put 4000lbs of weight in the boat,good luck with the room. <BR> <BR>BTW,it has no problem planing like every other boat would with 4000lbs but the best part about it is....it is all stock...ballast,engine,prop...everything to make that sucka preform. <BR> <BR>I didn't get to ride the Epic with no weight but from the boat it looked like it would be better then 75% of the boats dumped.

"the Epic throws a better wake with no ballast the 90% of "wake boats" with stock internal filled." <BR> <BR>You Sure have some Big Balls to make a statement like that.

Maybe....but I think he's right!

well the pics that i have seen must cut down on the size.

Here are some pics I have from my testing of the various Epics that have been built and tested. <BR> <BR>This first pic... is funny... After the major weight reduction with the resin infused hull.. we thoguht we would check out what the slalom ability may be like... hahaha... <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/464027.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>Then we thought... will it cater to beginners... no weight... Nice clean wake at slower speeds with no weight. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/464028.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>Filler'up..... Here it is with fully ballast... takes some getting used to... it is big and thick... and it will throw you!!! <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/464029.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR> <BR>Whether you love or hate the boat... it throws a big wake... no sacks... lots of storage... and very simple line... simple interior... make it easy to keep clean and easy to use... <BR> <BR>My favourite part... is whether the ballast is empty or full... the only way you can tell... is from the size of the wake... storage is not affected...

Is Epic planning on doing any demo's anywhere near the Seattle area? Joe? I would be interested in looking at these boats. My only hang up with this boat is the big block motor. Not sure I can get riders to pitch enough fuel to keep it going all winter long. Summer there's no shortage of people wanting to ride. Anybody know what a fully equipped Epic retails for?

Anyone know what an extra 4,000 pounds might do to the trailer if you forget to drain all the ballast before loading? I know the easy answer is you should drain it before you make the trip back to the marina but I have seen several boats the last few weeks still "peeing" when they were on their trailers.

My guess it would not be a good idea... <BR> <BR> <BR>John,I think about 65k and I don't think it would burn THAT much more.I really like the planing time with ballast full and 6-7 adults....2-3 seconds <BR> <BR>I'm actually really curious how much I would like/dislike riding the wake with 2-3 people and no ballast?!

No joke one of the nicest looking wakes Ive seen for no weight.

And one of the nicest looking boats in a long time. so over the bling thing

Over it? Were you ever really into it?

Yeah, you're right Tyler. I'm still runnin 16 inch wheels on my 3/4 ton <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

I agree bling can be ok but is most of the time overdone to an extreme degree... Sanger, Moomba, Epic nice to see a few without all that, keeps things fresh<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

MEATY!!! That last wake pic looks good. <BR> <BR>Joe, I think we need to have a wake shoot out between the Bonecrusher and the Epic. (Yes, it may just be a ploy to get another ride behind the EPIC. LOL!!!)

I'll say one thing for epic... Wake pics don't usually do a wake justice as I'm sure this one doesn't either, but the Epic is the only boat to consistently have an awesome looking wake in any picture.

evan, you're on...the epic stock ballast vs. the bonecrusher stock ballast. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

"Anyone know what an extra 4,000 pounds might do to the trailer if you forget to drain all the ballast before loading?" <BR> <BR>Joe...should we get Matt to answer that one? <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

ha, ha, ha.... Joe. You got me on that one.

Why does that 8.1 only have 375? my MC 5.7 has 350 and prob. gets alot better gas consumption, and MC's 8.1 has 450. Seems down on power?

what's the torque on the 5.7 and the 8.1 in the mcs? the volvo penta has 510ft/lbs of torque. horsepower is one thing, but if it's lacking torque, having a lot of horsepower doesn't help.

How many units has Epic sold thus far? (in numerical value)?

Hey Joe... I would say that Epic should seriously consider a 350 block. Here is what I have heard from some manufacturers in the industry. <BR> <BR>Excessive oil consumption in the 8.1 liter motors. To the point where the engine builder is telling the boat builder to not use the 8.1 in their boats unless they are certain they have an owner that is willing to check their oil every few hours. I know there was an Indmar rep that was saying they were not recommending the 8.1 in the big wakeboats... due to oil consumption <BR> <BR>Also... I am not an engineer or have any knowledge with engines and how they work... but there have been more problems on a percentage basis with the 8.1 litre powered motors in the V-drive configuration... more so.. found in wakeboat applications... <BR> <BR>Since the oil pan sits at the back side bottom of a motor... the motors are designed to circulate the oil etc etc etc... <BR> <BR>But in a v-drive configuration... the oil pan is now sitting towards the front of the boat... in a wakeboat application... with all the ballast... the tilting of the boat even more towards the rear... the oil is not circulating through the motor properly... <BR> <BR>This is causing some engine to go in protection mode... some are running hotter and burning off the oil (consuming it) and some are burning out cyclinders... <BR> <BR>Now my question is... why would this not be the same in a 350? Is it purley the size that may be causing this... <BR> <BR>Who knows... but it will be interesting to find out when the dust settles...

Don't shoot me if I'm wrong but doesn't epic use a volvo engine. I believe indmar is gm. So what I am getting to is, aren't the 8.1 engines different?

The Mastercrafts have 590 foot pounds of tourque, thats 80 foot pounds more than a Volvo, and 75 HP more. where did that torque go?

Personally I'd rather have a detuned 8.1 rather than a highly strung one. Hopefully the 21ft epic will have the 5.7 or 6L engine as an option. Diesel would be nice as well.

That wake looks really good. Solid and defined lines, and I bet its twice the size of those pics when you see it in real life.

Like Darren said, not all X.XL engines are the same. There are so many things that can affect the HP and torque of a given liter engine such as compression ratio, cam grind, heads, valves, tuning, etc. The same is true about car engines. The GM 5.7 block is used in so many applications throughout the industry and all of them have different outputs. <BR> <BR>I am not saying that the Indmar 8.1 in the MC is any less reliable than the Volvo... but in general, the more performance you eek out of engine... comes with a cost against reliability. Many people go aftermarket for their vehicles to get more performance but ask any modder, they know it comes with a reliability cost. It even comes with a fuel consumption cost. <BR> <BR>With all that said, every post on here says that the engine gets the boat out of the hole quite fine with the ballast full. Why push for more performance with the potential for less reliability when what they have does the job? If it isn't broken... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Schmo on June 19, 2007)

I do agree with you guys, but If my Newest technology Big block near 500 cubic Inch Motor had any less than 450 horses, i would be concernd. I mean turbod stock Subaru motors have almost 300 and 300 foot pounds of torque, out of a 2.5L!! I know thats a completely different topic but it must be really de-tuned and thats not always the best for gas either.

Tego, horsepower isnt the goal here, torque is. More often than not, most times a torque focused camshaft will result in a lower HP rating. F-250's, Ram's, Chevy's etc. are usually built around hauling, meaning they have large amounts of torque with little HP, their purpose is to tow, not run a 13 flat in the 1320. <BR> <BR>I have driven several F-dub diesels with low HP numbers and INSANE torque numbers. I would take that motor any day of the week over something with large amounts of HP when pulling heavy loads.

You can't compare a forced induction application (turbo) with a naturally aspirated engine. Turbos get hot and to generate those numbers need an intercooler. Don't we have enough things to go wrong on a boat? I will take simple and effective over complex and overkill any day of the week for a boat. <BR> <BR>Now for a play car, that's another story. Love my 7.0L.

who offers turbo in their boats?

I think that stock no ballast wake is better than my weighted wake (only a 99 tige 2100i) but anyways, I really like epic and when I see some cash flow I'd like to purchase one... are there any on the east coast???