Tige Convex VX
 

Tige just announced today that they now offer the newest innovation in wake surfing. I have personally surfed its awesome!
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that looks sick

looks sweet, ragboy showed us a while back, i dig it.

Marketing strategies chatt......marketing strategies ha ha!

What effect does it have on the wakeboard wake!

No it has no effect on the wakeboard wake....thats the cool part..

That looks like a surf wake to Chatt about! Wouldn't you agree Chattwake?:D

That's what the marketing dept says. Have you ridden it to verify? Pics back to back would be nice because i don't believe it has no effect at all

I thought RagBoy did a write up about it not too long ago. Also isn't that his boat?

I surfed it at the Polar bear but didn't get the chance to put my wakeboared groove on. Ragboy has a great wright up and video and you'll see the wake is as sick with as without!

Just another reason why I think the VX is a game changer...This wake is sick.

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Squid

The explanation I heard is that the VX sits slightly higher than the hull and when the boat is on plane (wakeboard speeds) it is not part of the running surface and does not affect the wake. Would be curious to see. Also, curious to see if you just leave it on all the time or do you take it on and off?

I read where it's pretty simple to take on and off, but shouldn't be necessary if it really doesn't affect the wakeboard wake.

What happens when you reverse? Seems like it would scoop up a bit of water?

squid! you got one on the way for the R-20 yet?

I would bet it's reinforced enough...

But in the same breath, what happens when you reverse with a wedge down?
When you reverse with your surf gate out?
With your switchblade attached?
With your trim tab down?

The answer to the last question is nothing, why would this be any different?

It would be different because this thing is 20 times bigger then anything you mentioned and its the full width of the boat.

The VX comes off just as the swim deck would, pull a couple pins and your ready to park your boat in the garage amongst all the other toys...or just leave it.

I didn't notice any changes in the handling when around the docks or in reverse. The exhaust is not effected and transom access is the same as without. You can still get to the plug with no issues or special wrenches. Also the VX sits just back enough under the swim deck that there is no sharp edges or parts in the way of getting in and out of the water. The VX is a simple design that when in the water you'd never know its there tell you see the difference between what you had before and what the VX has to offer...a comp level surfwake for the family to enjoy!

Yes but a wedge and switchblade is designed to create downforce as well... I'm not saying yay or nay but if those devices all work, why not this? And do you really think the engineers overlooked that?

Or ever reversing when your swim deck is underwater and you're ultra ballasted?

Ben, Customers first...:rolleyes:

Hey squid,
Can you step on it? I mean if I have people that don't know what it is or for, or little kids, would it be a HUGE no-no to accidentally use it as a step up to the platform? Or does it have a weight rating? I didn't see anywhere where that was asked yet....

I think it looks like an interesting concept, and I'll be the first to throw Tige a 'high 5' for trying something new. I guess I'd have to use it to see how it works. I know I'm not poppin big ass tricks like that dude in the video, so I don't know that it would do me any good.

That being said, if I had kids or little ones on my boat regularly, I'd have concerns with feet, arms, etc when swimming off the back of the boat.

I can't see how it won't affect the wakeboard wake....maybe a positive affect by changing the position of the curl/lip of the wake? Maybe a negative by changing shape?

Also, what kind of price tag are we talking about? I heard it's in the $3K range. Can anyone confirm.

The VX is not real convenient to use as a step. The swim deck is just at water level so if someone where to grab or step its all good. Its build to be and extension of the hull and its is stout and strong...

Maybe this agle will help..this is a pic I took of Wake9's Z3 with the VX installed...
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...55076802_n.jpg
As you can see its a high step for even the most flexible.

Hope that answered works for ya!

Pricing I have heard is $1500 if you order it with a new Tige or around $2500 if you want to retro it to an older Tige. The reason it is around $2500 for a retro fit is you need a new swim platform as well as the VX.

Pricing = = = = = Nothing official has been released. Dealers don't know at this point..there is a ball park that most are expecting but tell I get a firm quote from Tige or my dealer, I choose not to add to the rumor.

Hell its only money right...The end of the world will be coming soon..shipping dates are what we all should be concerned with....Can I get one before next week...lol

I was told it would be closer to a grand for retrofit. For $2500 I won't be adding it.

Looks like it will increase your ability to move the bow when maneuvering in tight docking situations.As for scooping water that water will spill out the gaps between the Convex VX and the deck.Not much different than backing up with the deck out of the water as opposed to backing up with the deck below water level.I'm sure you've experienced that on a sacked out wake boat.;) So Chatt what do you think of that AWESOME surf wake that 3 people[non-professionals] surf on the same side?

Looks pretty sick Robert!

How would this help you turn when turning? Seems like more hull to drag and keep you from being able to turn.

I've seen 3 non professionals surf a malibu xti 21, 2 on one side 1 on the other before... Stock weight, wedge and like 7 passengers...

Tige threads always seem to have an enjoyable amount of "logic" shared in them...

:rolleyes:

so in other words you've never seen that before:confused:

so ugly..... :eek:

As you know wake boats[most of them] back to the right.The scoop effect would increase drag when backing.Thus increasing the backing to the right effect in the same area.As opposed to backing without the Convex VX.

Yes Matt they always attract you for some reason.We all enjoy your logic and "prove it to me" statements.;)

Is that the same as 3 on one side? Only a little different on a Malibu?:p

Remember this is a option for Tigé boats.If you don't like it you don't have to buy it.For those of us that enjoy surfing as well as Wakeboarding.This is a excellent option for Tige owners to take their surf wake to the next level.

Don't quit your day job.

Seriously, why couldn't you just leave it at the Convex VX system makes a great surf wake, and not add the laughable theory?

"The drawing board has SO MUCH more to offer than hype and a quick switch." Hahahahahaha

I had to laugh at that too.
Tige is reeeeeeeallly gunning for malibu sales...
What he said does make sense though, depending on your priorities.

i can see some theory with it. doesnt allow the swim deck to effect the shape of the wake. i noticed on my 80 with the swim deck off the surf wake was a lot better ( clean ) wasnt really bigger or longer. when the boats sacked out and the hull is displacing water then it comes up and hits the swim deck. it has some not much but some effect on the shape. by extending the length of the hull to the swim deck seems logical. or one could just remove the swim deck. i really dont see how it could effect the performance of the boat in any way. i dont know about some of you guys but i dont do to many power turns these days and deff dont use reverse at full throttle. so under normal driving conditions i dont see it effecting anything

really thats about the best concept of a surf wake shaper ive seen. has 0 moving parts, doesnt look like it would put a ton of strain on the hull. deff. has my wheels turning. seems like you could actually build something like that to change the shape of the wake with a little bit of engineering for people with old flat bottom direct drives.

It is a pretty good idea, but don't dismiss the stress it could put on the transom of the boat. The piece is designed to channel and move water, therefore the force it is placing on the water is imparted on the piece itself, which when bolted to the transom is a classic cantilevered loading condition.

I am sure Tige's engineers looked at this, but to brush it away as negligible would be a mistake.

Another thing to consider, it's not just the extended running surface, its the "tunnel" in the center used to channel prop wash that is creating the great wake. Look at the picture below. Honestly, this is a great idea and as you pointed out has the benefit of using zero moving parts. It isn't, however, just as easy as extending the running surface of existing boats. I would also be curious to know how a similar device would work on boats that have a hook in the hull. (Or if it just works on the Tige convex hulls)

yea sure, it takes some force.
but its not creating down force, a la wedge or switchblade... plus issues like this arent overlooked after the MC lawsuit...
besides, at the most basic level its mounted similarly to a swim deck, but upside down to take the force from the bottom. do you feel unsafe when you hop on your swimdeck?
is the wedge unsafe? is a switchblade unsafe? no, not unless you hit something... why would this be any different? and its not even a wake maker like the other 2 devices, rather a wake shaper... i think it would take some next level stupidity to do any damage

i see what your saying matt. i to think it would have some strain on the transom as well, but alot less than some of the other stuff ive seen to produce a larger surf wake. i hope no one takes this the wrong way, and i dont own or have ever seen one in real life and i cant even remember the name of it, but those wake shapers that look like large whales tales that lower and retract. seems like they could put some crazy stress on the transom. personally ive yet to see the holly grail of wake shapers. at least not one thats worth me cutting and drilling holes in my boat for

The forces seen by me or anyone else jumping up and down on a swim platform versus a hull extension that is in contact with water at 10mph, is shaping prop wash, and has a surface area of roughly 16 ft sq is just a bit different.

Again, as I stated I am sure Tige engineers looked at this. My only point was to call it negligible is a mistake.

Let me clarify to prevent arguements. I like the concept, I like Tige boats. I am merely discussing this new technology on a discussion forum, and trying to offer an engineering point of view. That is all...

yes obviously thats not really the point... but even with 5-200lb bros standing on the swim platform i've been more concerned about how low the rub rail is getting than how much weight there is on the deck.... you see where my head is at?
and besides that, this device comes up and away from the hull, it doesn't create any downforce in a traditional sense, and most importantly you still have the trim tab which is engaged below the VX which will take some force off of it as well, combined with the upward curve i dont see it being a problem. ill eat my words if we see a hull failure without some stupidity involved

but they pay engineers to think about this stuff so you and i dont have to, so why worry about it?

now it is pretty damn ugly though, and i dont surf enough to warrant adding it, but i see it as a major update for hardcore surfers, much in the same way surfgate is an update for wakeboarders who want to grab a surf set when theyre done.

Forces down are one thing, but consider for one moment the forces UP on that thing. Drive your boat at 10 mph and stick your hand in the water at any upward angle and you will understand what I am referring to.

They do pay engineers to think about this stuff, as one such engineer that has worked with the marine industry I prefer to not have blind faith. My mistake was sharing some knowledge and a counterpoint, please carry on...

i shouldve known when you said "classic cantilevered loading condition" :D

i kid, my point is not there wont be lots of force, there will be, my point is that theres lots of other devices that put lots of force on a boat's transom, trim tabs, wedge, switchblade, tons of weight on a swim platform that may put more strain on a transom than this... why would this device cause any more problems or strain on a hull? i guess im just missing the point to the comments/concern with all these other devices readily in circulation with very few issues :confused:

Yea, the nerd talk gave it away, ;)

I am not saying it does, I am saying it might. A trim tab or wedge has a much smaller surface area, at similar speeds the forces on the transom are much less. (Think finger dragging in the water at 10mph vs your entire hand)

With the greater surface area, that could mean loading the transom more. Given the angle of attack to the water line, it might not. Assuming it isn't though is a dangerous thing with consumer goods. I was trying to discuss this and point out some issues before the backyard gurus got a hold of the concept and tried it on their own boats. That is also why I wondered if it would even work on a boat with a hook in the hull.

Personally, I think it is a great idea, although it would be one more thing to disconnect before I can get the boat in my tiny ass garage haha! Again, just discussing, not accusing Tige of half assing it or saying the VX concept is junk.

It's also a classic mistake - being an engineer myself - to blindly think that "Engineers get paid to think of these things, they think of everything"... Engineers are human and everything is a wide range of possibilities ;-)

I will greatly, but respectfully, disagree. The wedge is a foil. Its sole function is to create drag and downward force. Have you never seen the ripped open transoms, bent wedges and sheared pins and bolt? And they're not from strikes. Yes, they will be upward water force on this VX, but no where near the amount thats placed on a wedge, surf gate or switchblade.

I was referring more to trim tabs, but I get your point. I have seen the transoms, that to me indicates a design flaw. It does not absolutely indicate the force is greater or smaller than VX. There are calculations, simulations, etc that can prove it one way or the other. Without those, we are just guessing. I just think people are really downplaying the forces that this thing is going to see as an extended running surface.

If I was a betting man though, the forces seen axially from Surfgate are a fraction of the upward force seen from the much larger VX platform. The VX system though seems to do a much better job.

The surfgate only pokes out like 8-10 degrees. To suggest that this enormous fin, which essentially extends the running surface of a hull by a couple of feet, and which is forced down into the water by sinking and listing the boat, will produce less drag/displacement than a small surfgate tab is ridiculous.

Neat invention. The wave looks sweet. But, c'mon guys, let's not get crazy here.

I mean, how would you respond if someone claimed that, "Oh, if you run out of gas in a malibu with surfgate, then you can still get back to the dock using the surfgate system by deploying the flaps over and over, generating forward momentum!" That's just absurd - as is the claim that this huge fin thing will help a tige turn better, or that it won't increase drag.

So I thought I understood that the main benefit of the Convex was to change the SHAPE of the wake at various Taps positions, and eliminate some wash issues that existed. Does it make the wake bigger too?

Should the stress on the transom even be a concern with a lifetime hull warranty?

I'm not sure if retrofit installs would be excluded but I'm pretty sure that if it were installed at the factory, you'd be covered.

Hahaha chatt I think you were getting trolled...no one is actually mental enough to believe sit will help you turn.

Who knows, and really, who cares if it has more force than a surf gate? If it doesn't cause problems and makes the wake better than great! As far as I know it was designed to not be engaged when at wakeboarding speed and ski speed, so no it shouldn't drag at anything but surf speed.
I wouldn't even compare this to surf gate, they serve 2 different purposes...

Tj makes a grade a point... If your hull fails you get a brand new boat...

We all knew that Malibu people and Tige people were going to fight about this thing. I am sure we will see many more fights moving forward too.
Purely from an independent view since I am not brand loyal to Tige or Malibu. I think this VX is more appealing than surf gate. Not visually, but I mean the way we would use it. If it works like they say it does and is engineered properly, I give the win to Tige. The way we surf, this is a better fit than surf gate. I think this still allows you to have much more mass and length on the surf side. I could care less about jumping over to the other side. I think Surf gate might revolutionize that for future generations of surfers, but not for how we use our boat today. I give it a win to Tige if it all works as it says it does, is engineered right, and is priced right. Does not sound like our dealer will have one in time for the boat show next month. I would like to check it out.

Technically yes, it can make the wake bigger since you are supposed to be able to keep it clean at all TAPS positions.

You may even be able to surf with less weight since you can raise the TAPS plate higher (which raises the bow). So there's your better fuel economy...

As for turning, I heard it was designed specifically to enhance power turns, high speed reverse 180's and in the 2014 boats, auto steer.

Chatt,

I'm no engineer, but i'm pretty mechanically inclined. It would take some damn strong evidence to prove to me that a 12x12 plate that deploys diagonally to the side of the boat, creating enough push to crab-walk the boat resulting in a larger wake, is seeing less force then a large extension of the hull that transitions up over about a 2 ft span? Keep in mind that the boats running surf gate are also weight with ballast. It would also be a stretch to call it a "fin".

2ft by 8ft span...

Crabwalk the boat? I was under the impression Surfgate only extends the pocket by extending the vertical running surface. Its not pitching the entire boat sideways. Chatt, input here?

The info I got from Malibu is it simply works on delaying the convergence of water on one side of the boat, creating a better surf wake on that side.

Isn't crabbing different than listing?

Ive seen many references to it, the surf gate, "walking" or "crabbing" the boat to the off side.

Getting real personal in here

Chattwake is correct regarding how SurfGate works. (Delayed Convergence)

You're right. That was improper. Hence my deleted post. In a nutshell, surfgate does not cause the boat to crabwalk, but simply redirects water on the non-surf side of the boat so that it delays the convergence of water behind the boat. It is not intended to create drag/downforce, like the wedge, but to channel water.

The comment about the VX making the boat turn or go straighter while backing the boat up had me laughing so hard. Its amazing how logic gets thrown out the window in these threads. How can anyone in their right mind think that an (essentially a trim tab) is going to help reverse an inboard boat. Inboards always back up in the direction the prop turns unless there is a rudder directing the thrust (and NO the rudder that is already on the boat is not the one I'm referring to). It would have to be in front of the prop to be effective. It has no affect on the wakeboard wake because it is not touching the water at those speeds. A little common sense and real world logic are amazing things. LOL

Im not saying it doesnt work that way, but simply stating how its been described by those that have driven the boat.

Its amazing what a little editing can do. We are arguing about how much stress a contraption sees as compared to another, yet when you change a couple words, it describes the very piece of equipment that is supposed to be seeing so much more stress.

Both products work. Neither is one company's answer to the others. Both manufacturers built the boats with the gear in mind. They are both a completely different aproach to completely difffernt paths. Malibu wanted to address their surf wake in one way and found Surf Gate to be the answer. We have all seen pics of Malibus before and after. Tige wanted to address their surf wake and found the VX to be the answer. Again, we have seen the before and after pics.

For what its worth (probably not much) I will way in with my experience on a similiar device. I built mine earlier this year (before the release of Tige's:D) and have about 50 hours on mine. My idea was to reduce the prop wash. The wash on the original Z1 is really pretty bad. Before any bashing of my wave remember this is on a Z1 and not the surf monster Z3. Also, this is just my backyard redneck engineering.

1. My device greatly reduced my wash.
2. Did extend the pocket a little (hard to tell from the video).
3. Does not affect the wakeboard wake (if anything it cleans the lip a little)
4. Does not affect handling at all (even reverse:D)
5. I have not noticed any change in fuel usage (not saying there isn't but with 60hours on it I can't tell)

Here is a link to a video I put together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28KUpz1Mr8s

Oops, forgot a pic of the device.

What a handy way of getting out of having to say "I was wrong."

When I change sentences around, I can make them say different things too! :rolleyes:

I guess given your screen name, I should have expected this...

Cool, we've once again reached the level of personal insults in another WW thread that has the dreaded "T" word in it.

Piece out homies :rolleyes:

We apparently have wildly different definitions of personal insults...

Matt doesn't insult people or attack their views,he merely points out that he is all knowing and Webster came to him for the official definition of every single word in his book. I'm surprised he hasn't won a Nobel peace prize already!:eek:

"According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize shall be awarded to the person who "shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Clearly an award for someone trying to impart some wisdom on misspoken statements made about boats...

:rolleyes:

Did you also know that Alfred Nobel made his fortune by inventing a little substance called trinitrotoluene? Did you know that by creating TNT he was responsible for more deaths than anyone in the history of the world? More than the entire Roman Empire and Persian Empire combined.

Upon false reports of his death, newspaper headlines referred to him as the "Merchant of Death" among other such questionable post-humous titles. His lasting legacy concerned him so he developed the Nobel Prizes. Ironic...

As Oppenheimer said when he witnessed the first nuclear detonation..."now I have become death, destroyer of worlds."

Robert you Tige-tea swilling lunatic! Everyone on this forum knows I'm the smartest guy here.

Veritas!

Delayed convergence which will crab the boat. Or, crabbing the boat to create delayed convergence. Similar principle with MC's surf tabs. Common misconception that these only roll the boat.

And yes, I'm an engineer.