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-   -   Getting on Plane with Ballast (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=809393)

Losy 07-06-2020 4:35 PM

Getting on Plane with Ballast
 
having trouble getting my 2012 V215 to speed with some ballast. Just added a Acme 911 prop
I boat at 6,700 ft. (Big Bear lake, CA) Current ballast (larger bags on order)
Surfside-750lbs
Non-surfside-200lbs lead
Middle bag full-500lbs
100lbs lead up front
6 people on boat (3 wear lightweights)

I could not get the boat to go beyond 10.2-10.5 mph. RPMs were low and boat just bogged. Do I need more weight upfront? I have a larger tank busters bag set up on order, but worried about not getting the weight I have up to speed?

shawndoggy 07-07-2020 5:27 AM

I thought this thread was going to be about going through TSA with a backpack full of leadwake bags.

Yes, if you are hitting a speed wall, you either need a lower pitched prop or more weight up front/less weight in rear (and probably a bit of all of that at 6700').

turbojedi 07-07-2020 3:42 PM

I suggest weight the rear of the boat even on both sides. Also a good rule for entire boat weighting is 70% in back and 30% up front. So if you run 1500 in the back you'll need 30% of 1500 in the center and front . Get a wake shaper also or make one. Start there is should get you close to a decent wave .

denverd1 07-08-2020 2:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbojedi (Post 1999609)
I suggest weight the rear of the boat even on both sides. Also a good rule for entire boat weighting is 70% in back and 30% up front. So if you run 1500 in the back you'll need 30% of 1500 in the center and front . Get a wake shaper also or make one. Start there is should get you close to a decent wave .

for a Sanger???

hate to tell you this, but none of that applies to a Sanger. They like weight up front, the most you want in the back is 60/40 back/front. mid ship and bow weight are key to a good wave.
they also like to be listed. hard. like rub rail in the water on surf side listed. so even weighting in back is a bad idea. on my 230 I run 0 lbs in the opposite side, 1100 on surf side. with 500 lbs lead spread evenly mid ship.

ACME 911 is a stump puller and what I run, but I suspect the altitude is giving you issues. gotta be a better prop for your elevation.

Losy 07-08-2020 5:33 AM

Thanks denverd1. How much weight do run in the bow? I will move my lead out of the non surfside and get my list dialed in on the surfside. I am hoping I can get a little more speed once I weight the midship and bow like you suggested. ACME suggested the 911 prop like you are running. I am think my lack of bow weight and mid ship weight made my prop angle not work even with the 911.

denverd1 07-08-2020 6:13 AM

ski locker sac (350'ish)
750 in walkway.
300 lbs even under front seats.
4-500 lbs under observer seat/behind captains chair.

really like midship/bow weight

Losy 07-08-2020 4:28 PM

Great this helps a lot. I will give it a try next time I am out.

rallyart 07-09-2020 6:58 PM

Your boat should have a fixed plate off the transom behind the rudder. You can adjust it's tension rods some to push it down a bit at the trailing edge. If you don't have that plate you need to add the Bennett centre trim adjustable tab to the boat. You might want to add this even if have the fixed plate and install it instead.
The key point is to lift the stern to get out of the hole. The adjustable plate lets you tune your wake after you get on plane. The main issue is that you are down at least 20% on rated power just due to altitude, even the engine is in good shape and in tune. denverd1 is right about more weight forward on the Sanger. As a stopgap while your figure out your setup just move people to the bow until you get underway.

denverd1 07-10-2020 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rallyart (Post 1999669)
Your boat should have a fixed plate off the transom behind the rudder. You can adjust it's tension rods some to push it down a bit at the trailing edge. If you don't have that plate you need to add the Bennett centre trim adjustable tab to the boat. You might want to add this even if have the fixed plate and install it instead.
The key point is to lift the stern to get out of the hole. The adjustable plate lets you tune your wake after you get on plane. The main issue is that you are down at least 20% on rated power just due to altitude, even the engine is in good shape and in tune. denverd1 is right about more weight forward on the Sanger. As a stopgap while your figure out your setup just move people to the bow until you get underway.

hey Art!

Losy 07-10-2020 3:57 PM

Yep i have the fixed plate. Will give that a try. Adjustable trim tab might be a good winter project. Curious if you guys have any opinions on the GSA surf system? Not that i want to drop 4K on tabs. My Sanger dealer likes them a lot on the new V215. I have mixed reviews but I am guess that is due to the high cost.

chilidog 07-21-2020 4:22 PM

If you are set on this boat and riding that location I'd suggest getting a center bennet trim tab that you can put in the down position for taking off then adjust to set your wake or wave how you want once you re moving. Also get a nauticurl or other suck gate to clean up your surf wave. Go Surf Assist will for sure give you a cleaner and more adjustable wave but they are $$$$

I had a Sanger V215 before my current boat and with 1k in ballast and enough people it couldn't get up and going, I had stock prop though not a 911 like I needed.

My current boat has a center wake plate that is adjustable and i think one of the nicest features on any boat I have driven for dialing the wakeboard wake for steepness based on rider preference or experience level. The real key is how well the center plate gets me out of the hole with ballast and people aboard (Supra smart plate system). Previous owner also put on an altitude prop and although it tops out at 35 mph it gets on plane fast and easy with not a ton of throttle. Seems like a center adjustable plate and suck gate could be the cheapest way to accomplish your goals.

turbojedi 07-22-2020 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Losy (Post 1999618)
Thanks denverd1. How much weight do run in the bow? I will move my lead out of the non surfside and get my list dialed in on the surfside. I am hoping I can get a little more speed once I weight the midship and bow like you suggested. ACME suggested the 911 prop like you are running. I am think my lack of bow weight and mid ship weight made my prop angle not work even with the 911.

I was only giving him a place to start, also with a wave shaper you should be able to weight it even in the rear, and not have to pull and turn to keep a decent wave. I have never been in a sanger but many other boats and with a wave shaper you never have to weight just one side . wave shaper is key I think for the older boats and even some of the newer boats.

denverd1 07-22-2020 7:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbojedi (Post 2000004)
I was only giving him a place to start, also with a wave shaper you should be able to weight it even in the rear, and not have to pull and turn to keep a decent wave. I have never been in a sanger but many other boats and with a wave shaper you never have to weight just one side . wave shaper is key I think for the older boats and even some of the newer boats.

It's the wrong place to start.


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