And please dont take my statement above as bashing exile...the whole 12v audio industry used to inflate numbers prior to CES regulation. I have certainly gone round and round posting pictures and doing crap that could potentially deter business from Exile / try not too anymore

At the end of the day - my goal is the same goal as Bryan's or Tim's. Put a good meal on the table for my family at night and get my young kids the best possible education and opportunties they can get and send them out into the world as well equipped as possible. I would certainly not be happy if someone bashed my company for whatever reason b/c it hurst my and their famalies bottom line.

Shawn - I get you were the kind of kid that always answered the question prior to reading through everything....that's ok.

So at 14.4 which is a CES compliant voltage - the 300.2 will do 222 watts at 4 ohms.

The other review on the 300.4 only gives the 13.33 number at 364 watts at 4 ohms bridged. It clearly states in the article that "You can see that even at well below the CEA-2006 power measurement voltage of 14.4V, the KS300.4 exceeds its rated power.

So in the extra full volt of power at 14.4 I don't think that anyone would aruge that that amp will not do 400 watts per channel.

Fader;)

Shawn - I have no doubts that those amps make the power. Arc choose to use the conservative number WS chose to use the maxed out number. I don't think that either is wrong as long as it falls within the CES 14.4 number which I think is the max voltage that you can publish at.

What you are saying is right about WS numbers being different than Arc's - but I think that based on math and what I see from the numbers on the 300.2, the 300.4 should be able to hit 400 amps.

That was the first amp that WS produced...the cost for them to go in and re configure, change parts, etc..etc..etc would have been huge! Probably a bigger expense than they wanted to take on at the time.

This thread has been an emotional roller coaster - Im done!

OK, you made me look... here Tim certainly suggests that the power differential is an engineering one not one where you have to interpolate from a magazine's review of a different amp.

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=688026

I think there has been a lot of poo poo'ing of arc vs the syn series (not by you, ever) on here as a result of these claimed power discrepancies is all I'm saying. I've tested neither and it really would be interesting to hear if a syn4 and a ks300.4 test out exactly the same.

lolz!

I don't believe I was fishing for anything other than facts. You may have known that ARC and WS are no different, but I did not. But hey, I guess I should have just taken your word for it right? I have always wondered why the gloves have never come off. Now that David has retired, it appears that they have. Not sure why one would sell all of their stock in a successful company and not collect the free check every month, but I know that agreements can force one to do so when they step away. Contrary to popular belief, I don't have a hard on for any one brand of anything and I really don't care about the final outcome of all of this other than gathering as many facts as possible.

Actually the comparison to firearms is a good one. There are several poly guns that are based on Glock's that I would not own or trust. Do you think Taurus sells guns for less than others because they improved on someone else's design? From their website: "The well known and popular Taurus 92 is modeled after the same sidearm issued to our armed forces" Too bad they didn't get the contract when it came up. Maybe I should expand on what I was getting at. David and now you have pointed out that the ARC and WS amps are the same, so I guess it is safe to assume that if I pop the case on both the internals would look exactly the same, with the exact same parts, right? My point being is how do I know even if the same PCB is used that the same components are used to assemble it? Most end users would not pop the case on something they just spent a bunch of money on to see if that is the case. They would also not be able to tell the difference between a resistor, diode, capacitor, coil or the power supply for that matter. I prefer to trust, but verify. (RIP Ronnie)

Don't assume for one minute that even though I am in Exile's backyard and own their equipment that I would not switch to another brand if I felt it was warranted or had been mislead. Since David has made claims on here and other websites that their equipment specs are misleading and inferior to other brands, I am now looking for info to support that claim. I still have nothing in my hand that that says one is better than the other. I would love someone to order a Kicker, Wet Sounds, Arc, Exile and other brands directly from the source without telling them what they are for. Put them on the test bench and video the whole process. If I had the equipment and knowledge to do it, I would in a heartbeat.

Murphy,
Just a small correction on your statement. The Pasmag review of the Phoenix Gold Ti amplifiers (some of which shared the platform with the Exile Xi amplifiers) did barely meet spec. The difference was that P.G. published 'Dynamic Power' specs (impossible to qualify) but also provided an RMS spec. For example, the 2500 watt dynamic power monoblock actually produced 1650 watts rms into the lowest load. In contrast, Exile adopted the dynamic power numbers as their RMS numbers which they could not meet.

I see how the other brands of amplifiers became a question in order to deflect the issue away from Exile amplifiers not meeting spec. But the fact is that most prominent brands can be trusted to meet spec based on consistent, independent reviews over the years. Why raise the question until one of those other brands have actually failed a review or independent test. On the other hand, brands like Boss are not even in the ball park. But you shouldn't need a review to figure out some of the brands are totally bogus.

In using the Arc Audio KS models to substantiate the Wetsounds specs....at this time it is the only reference available as a national publication has yet to test a Wetsounds product....that I am aware of. If the Arc Audio KS products are exceeding spec then it is fair to assume that Wetsounds Class H products follow suit. But as just an assumption I think it is a reasonable one.
The initial design and tooling costs of a new product from the ground floor for a comparatively small and start up company would be too much of a burden. So they share an established platform. Yes, parts can be different. And, one manufacturer can tweak the power supply voltage slightly to increase power without it being visually obvious. Once you have evidence that the first Arc Audio or Wetsounds amplifier product doesn't meet spec then this might become a relevant discussion.

David

Shawn,
Consider a couple of things here. First, per the independent test reviews of the Arc Audio KS300.4, it would actually meet all the Wetsounds Syn4 specs.
The unregulated Arc Audio KS300.4 actually tested:
4 X 109.5 watts @ 4ohms w/ 13.53 volts. (not 14.4)
4 X 176.3 watts @ 2ohms w/ 13.4 volts. (not 14.4)
2 X 361.0 watts @ 4 ohms bridges w/ 13.33 volts. (not 14.4)
So if a 14.4 supply voltage (CEA standard) was used then it is a lock that the unregulated Arc Audio could reach Wetsounds Syn4 specs. Every supply volt increase or decrease constitutes a 12 to 15% increase or decrease in output power with this topology. So perhaps they are the identical amplifier and Wetsounds is a bit more liberal in their specs. In that case, the Wetsounds still meets spec. Or, perhaps Wetsounds uses a slightly greater switching power supply voltage, or better parts in the same topology, or a higher switching speed, to get more power. But in either case, we have all the objective and independent (Pasmag) evidence we need to know that both meet or exceed spec.

David

Sooo... which is better?

I think we determined boss :p

This is not what I plan on my retirement being like .....

This!

I am not an audiophile but I love my Exile XM9s. Have not regretted the choice once.

I know there are other top shelf marine audio companies out there but I must say that I have been 100% satisfied with Exile.

Just the opinion of 1 happy consumer. Gonna go and turn up the volume now. :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/mubemege.jpg

Had my girlfriend email wet sounds on the way to the river today, asking for some decals for the boat, none of my gear came with any decals. That cannot be, so we emailed and asked for some.
About 45 mins later we had an email back with a tracking number on a whole pack of decals for the boat.

Pretty awesome. Lame I know, but I'm pretty stoked about it. Lol

J M
I actually heard that Exile is using a much better vinyl and adhesive on their decals than WS. I heard WS is using some the same adhesive on their stickers that were on the envelopes that George Costanza's wife licked and died from on Seinfeld. The molecular structure of the adhesives on the Exile decals are much better. Just beware and be careful. Just want to make sure everyone is aware of the facts. I don't have any alterior motive, but I want to make sure the public knows. WS still makes a good sticker, but just not as good as Exile......

This is another summery of the 85 posts above if you want to save time and just read the last post.....

Oh yeah and the WS sticker is advertised as 3"x9" but the true dimensions are actually 3.5" x 10". The Exile sticker is actually closer to 2.75" x 8.75"

So the WS stickers will be louder visually than exile due to more surface area, just like the speakers? :D

Not saying I don't believe you but can you post a link to the reviews?

Tyler, you made my morning with this one.... Next we need a buoy ball review, oh wait!

But we do know, and can all agree on at least one absolute. The exile speakers are not the easiest on the eye.
And while any one can say what they want, no one wants ugly women, or ugly speakers on their boat.

And that's a fact jack.

I'm not saying wet sounds and their lame iron cross gig is the best design either, but when given the options..

Says the guy that bought a Sanger with 54 6x9's... lol

It has 6 6x9's.
I also paid 18 grand. So..I think ill deal with 6 6x9's

It's also got 4 revs on the tower and sinister series amps.

Was it the boat I wanted. Of course not. Was it a price I was willing to pay. Yes.

Umadbro?

Personally, I like the Exile grill pattern and I state that without any caveat.

On a separate note, children when confronted with an opinion contrary to their own respond by insulting the person. Isn't that what's going on?

I can't believe I actually read through this whole thing, the drama just sucked me in.

^^^ Ditto.

Not at all.. lol. Some of the shish you say just cracks me up.

Umadbro says Lon on a budget, lol!

David, what kind of boat do you have and what tower speakers and amps are you using?

I forgot budget was a forbidden word on this site.
You shouldn't get a good deal or buy your boat out right.

15yr notes, with financed trailers, and an audio system financed in is the way to go and be with the in crowd here. Am I right?

Umadbro?

Not at all. Just asking a question.

Get this thread back on topic!

And quit talking how you don't like your boat. You sound like a flunking dbag. Your boat is sweet and you got a good deal.
"Uh yea guys uhhhh she's a little older and rough around the edges and wasn't the sweetest model back in the day but I'm hanging some sick cans on her and I'm gonna ride it like I stole it" You are so suave.

Are you asking me to come to the rescue?

Or..is that like an ultimatum and I'm being reprimanded.


Because not exactly sure

I edited my post. I was asking you to be the voice of reason, and also calling you out over riding your cheap whore but pretending you don't like it.

Who doesn't like a cheap hooker..
Some serious bang for your buck. Knowwhatimean

Uworriedaboutmybankrollbro?

Looks like I'm upgrading to a 46. Can't wait. Maybe I will go bankrupt and give it away. Younevrrknow.

Oh. I think he mad.

I think they are both great quality products to each there own preference. No speaker is exactly purity until night and the LEDS come on..

That looks awesome!

JL speakers are so much better sounding than Wetsounds or Exile.

Best looking grilles too!

And screws as well.

I have a set of rev10s for sale if interested. Shoot me a message.

I agree! :D

I have 2 SD6s running my interiors and 4 Rev 10s. Called up Simon at WS and he walked us through tuning it correctly for the Rev 10. He did some equations and what not and got it to about 475 watts per Rev 10. I have put at least 25 hours on the boat since this and haven't blown one yet. "knock on wood"

Ah. To hell with it. I have the sd2 and the sd4 now lol.
Sd4 running the in boats. Sd2 for the towers.

Now I should be able to run any set up lol

^^^What about a sub?

Well what a thread...I know many were entertained by it, but its really to bad do see things go this way.

First off my current boat is all Exile..and am I , as they are called over on The Malibu Crew a "fan boy" ....no not at all. Do I like my Exile system..yes. Is it reliable ...hell yes. Is Exile and Brain really good at marketing their product ..yes! Is Exile a superior product ...no.

Are Brian and David both really helpful and knowledgable guys...yes. I have dealt wtih both and find them both really friendly and helpful. I have also run Bullet'sand find Jamie really helpful as well.

What I can tell you as I had a JL 800.4HD amp. At the time Exile was just coming out with the Harpoon but it was an unknown so I went with the known. Well that was a mistake. I had that amp back to Earmark once or twice for reparis and finally it was replaced by JL and failed again. David and Earmark were excellent to deal with and David even took my call on his personal cell to help me with set up. I have no idea why the amp kept failing, perhaps it was the Bullets, I dont know but I did have reliability issues and David and JL stood by their product.

After the 3rd failure I ordered a Harpoon. That thing was solid so I then added a sub and amp to my previous boat and never had an issue. My new boat is all Exile and again it has been solid. The amps dont get so hot you could cook an egg on them and I have had others tell me that the system sounds really good.

My only complaint is I wish Exile would make their tower speaker shells out of aluminum like Bullet does. I had both speakers break on my XM9's. I am not the first around here and a friend had his XM7's break as well. When you mount the speakers sideways on the Malibu tower and with all the weight of the 9" or whatever size they actually are :) the strain on the plastic shell is alot. I beleive they broke when traillering. Thats my only complaint but I had a good vendor that got them replaced for me.

I think at the end of the day Exile makes a decent product that is reliable and they stand behind their product. When you get a short boating season you want a product that will not give you any grief..and Exile has been able to do that for me....just make aluminum speaker pods and you guys are golden!

David - all the best in your future endevors but as suggested earlier perhaps you may want to change your screen name to something other than Earmark...perhaps something like "The artist formerly known as Earmark?"

^^^Or perhaps "DavidAnalog"..;)

As a retired independent, I have indeed changed by handle. With all respect, I'm passing on the "...artist formerly known as..." idea. LOL.

I have 2 DC Audio 12's

I have a boat with quite a lot of Exile gear, but I also have Polk, Fusion and Rockford gear. Out of all the companies i've dealt with Brian at Exile is fantastic to deal with, and I probably wouldn't bother looking elsewhere as I just enjoyed dealing with the whole team. Even the guy who helped me with settings via their website was awesome.

That now said, I paid for an 800 watt amp which turns out isn't, so I can also see the point that David is trying to make. If he's a retailer and has to tell his customers the amps 800 watts, to be honest id hope it was. His customer really isn't going to care that Exile mislabeled the amp, as he didn't purchase it from Exile, it came from David..... The buck stops with him and the customer is his problem. It doesn't seem many people on the forum seem to care about this which is a bit weird......... If you search any boating forum David posts up pushing JL and Wetsounds, so i can also see that either their products are day and night better than Exile, has an agenda, or has had bad experiences with Exile. My 5 cents worth is that you should be posting under a personal name if you are going to post in a fashion like that, but the reality is quite a few Earmark sales probably came as a result of the posting.

Do I care? Morally i'm a bit dissapointed that the amp isn't what it pertains to be, but for my setup it actually works out better as it is likely to match my speakers perfectly. if I had something different setup wise, yeah I probably would care more. Its hard to compare apples with apples, when ones an orange. That said the service and especially after sales service from Exile is second to none, so keep up the good work. Having read that Wetsounds exaggerate their amplifiers somewhat as well, i think its probably about time all companies adopted a similar measuring scale, so that consumers can choose knowledgably.

I've never heard a Wetsounds speaker, but think my Exiles are great. The interesting thing about this thread is how much people value service. Perhaps a not to all the manufacturers around that having an extra 100 watts doesn't sell the product......

Byron,
Quote,"Having read that Wetsounds exaggerate their amplifiers somewhat as well, i think its probably about time all companies adopted a similar measuring scale, so that consumers can choose knowledgably."

Just a small correction. There is nothing in this thread that would indicate that Wetsounds amplifiers do not meet spec or exaggerated their specs. There was speculation as to why similar Arc Audio and Wetsounds amplifiers are spec'd a little differently, whether or not these are the same amplifiers inside, and the differences in measurement standards used in independent test reviews.
There is an existing industry CEA standard for audio amplifier measurements. However, there is no governing body to enforce them and force compliance. I realize the technical aspect with all the variations is a bit confusing to some. You have amplifiers tested with voltages of 12.6 volts, 13.5 volts, and 14.4 volts, all of which change the power output. That complicated the discussion.
The CEA standards are pretty liberal as they are. The ratings are at 1% distortion but only at one frequency, which is 1 kHz. It doesn't reveal anything about the amplifier bandwidth or distortion at upper frequencies. This is particularly important with fullrange Class D amplifiers. It's just too easy for amplifier producers to pursue the specification via a clumsy negative feedback rather than the pursuit of true audio performance. The power output is stated at one frequency only, which is 1 kHz. The ratings are taken with a 14.4 volt supply, yet you never operate with 14.4 volts at the amplifier primary terminals. You might expect a power reduction of 25 to 30% when the supply is reduced from 14.4V to 12.6V. You might expect another 15% power reduction at 40 or 50Hz. You might expect another substantial power reduction when ALL channels are simultaniously driven versus just a single channel driven for testing purposes. With all that to consider, you have to be able to trust the manufacturer to be at least totally forthright along the CEA standards. If they can't get that right, you've got nowhere to go.